9/11 Conspiracy (continued from Ron Paul thread)

[n0spam4me]

I have a PROBLEM with Ron Paul
in that he states the reason for 9/11/2001 is U.S. foreign policy.
OK ... to get to the point, the whole 19 radical Arabs hyjacked 4 commecial airliners and crashed 3 of them into buildings story is a FAIRY TALE!
The events of 9/11/2001 where VERY well planned out by the Military Industrial Complex (New World Order, Project for a new American Century... WhatEVER!) The whole scene as it played out could NOT have happened the way that the "official" 9/11 report claims.

have you ever heard of a comic called Bill Hicks? Look up his work on the web, funny and disturbing stuff.

Most people NOW understand that the JFK assasination "magic bullit" is bogus, its an excuse to limit the number of shots fired and thereby assign blame to the LONE GUNNMAN (Lee Harey Oswald)
We where lied to in the 60's and we are being lied to now.

How can we get more people to THINK and then kevtch at their Senators and Congresspeople? What does it take?

A! Wake Up AMERICA!

[Chin]

I have a PROBLEM with Ron Paul
in that he states the reason for 9/11/2001 is U.S. foreign policy.
OK ... to get to the point, the whole 19 radical Arabs hyjacked 4 commecial airliners and crashed 3 of them into buildings story is a FAIRY TALE!
The events of 9/11/2001 where VERY well planned out by the Military Industrial Complex (New World Order, Project for a new American Century... WhatEVER!) The whole scene as it played out could NOT have happened the way that the "official" 9/11 report claims.

have you ever heard of a comic called Bill Hicks? Look up his work on the web, funny and disturbing stuff.

Most people NOW understand that the JFK assasination "magic bullit" is bogus, its an excuse to limit the number of shots fired and thereby assign blame to the LONE GUNNMAN (Lee Harey Oswald)
We where lied to in the 60's and we are being lied to now.

How can we get more people to THINK and then kevtch at their Senators and Congresspeople? What does it take?

A! Wake Up AMERICA!

Lots of halucinagens and grape kool-aid.

[USMC the Almighty]

Lots of halucinagens and grape kool-aid.

There's no reasoning with him. Most 9/11 conspiracies don't even make sense because there is no reason for the Bush administration to do what they say. The only real argument a sane individual can make is that Bush knew but didn't do anything and this in itself is unprovable (like FDR and Pearl Harbor).

[n0spam4me]

My point here is that RON PAUL is either catering to the public with a statement that is acceptable to a larger audence rather than tell the whole truth and freak_out a lot of people and thus distroy his chances of getting elected.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Such anxiety-induced cultishness can lead to collective insanity, as the Jonestown episode shows. People can be led to ignore clear, obvious facts—even the evidence of their own senses—and live out a mass delusion or hallucination that they accept as consensus reality, and cling to in the face of all evidence to the contrary. They can watch videos of the Twin Towers being blown to kingdom come, WTC-7 being demolished conventionally, Larry Silverstein confessing to its demolition, Bush reading to schoolchildren with a guilty smirk while the nation is supposedly under surprise attack...and still cling to their preconceived notion that any “attack on America” must have been the work of outsiders.

As Galanter puts it:

“Cognitive dissonance theory...has shown how individuals cannot easily dismiss a belief or attitude they hold, even when the attitude is directly contradicted by evidence or events. People will sooner adopt farfetched ideas to explain events than relinquish their preconceptions. In so doing, they avoid having to face the dissonance between what they see and what they have long believed. The dismissal of plain reality can happen when people are confronted by challenges to their ingrained patriotism, their prejudices, or their religious values. Under these circumstances, they may ignore cruelty, hypocrisy, or incompetence, or create elaborate rationalizations rather than challenge the principles espoused by their leaders.” (Cults, p.152)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Now I know that all of the Conservatives on this forum will want to label me as the crazie one....

But just think for a moment, LOOK AT THE VIDEO record of WTC7 falling down.
Check out the Pentagon pix of the building right after the hit and before the collapse. Do you REALLY AND TRULY BELIVE that a BOEING 757 hit the PENTAGON?

Like I've said before, they lied to us in the 60's (JFK assasination, Golf of Tonkin ... etc...) and they are lying to us NOW!

WAKE UP AMERICA!
.

[Sgt Schultz]

Now I know that all of the Conservatives on this forum will want to label me as the crazie one....

But just think for a moment, LOOK AT THE VIDEO record of WTC7 falling down.
Check out the Pentagon pix of the building right after the hit and before the collapse. Do you REALLY AND TRULY BELIVE that a BOEING 757 hit the PENTAGON?

Like I've said before, they lied to us in the 60's (JFK assasination, Golf of Tonkin ... etc...) and they are lying to us NOW!

WAKE UP AMERICA!
.

Well I can't speak for the conservatives but I do believe a plane hit the Pentagon. I worked with a man who was walking from the Pentagon parking lot on that side of the building when the plane hit. He saw/heard it come in and hit. I have no reason to think that he would be lying.

[n0spam4me]

Note for Sgt Schultz Can your friend positivly identify what hit the Pentagon as a Boeing 757? or? It could just as well have been a cruse missile,
To quote Rummy "WHO KNOWS?"

The "official" 9/11 report .. Lame excuses abound!
and they "LOST" FLT77 for half an hour!?!?!?!?!

This is NOT acceptable, Cheney was in Charge of NORAD and just exactly what was Mr. Cheney doing from the time of the first hit to the WTC untill the hit to the PENTAGON?

Richard Cheney:
A: Inteneded for the PENTAGON to be hit.
or
B: is so incompetent as to be unemployable at anything!

pick one, and in any case, why is this clown still on the payroll?

[jb_1430]

But just think for a moment, LOOK AT THE VIDEO record of WTC7 falling down.


Your point? Would you expect it to "LOOK" differently?


Check out the Pentagon pix of the building right after the hit and before the collapse. Do you REALLY AND TRULY BELIVE that a BOEING 757 hit the PENTAGON?


Your point? A 757 body is 12 ft 4in wide and 13 ft 6in high. The hole was 16-20 foot across. WAKE UP! MARK

[n0spam4me]

Your point? Would you expect it to "LOOK" differently?

WELL DUH! - do you expect orderly results from chaotic events?

Hve you looked at the Video of WTC7 falling? notice how neat and complete it is(?) If the fires and damage from stuff falling from the twin towers brought down the building, would you expect to see one part sag, one side of the building falling ahead of the rest? Instead what we see is the roof line very nearly level and at least the entire face of the building that is visible in the video going down in a very orderly and neat manner. To do this, THOUSANDS of welds and joints would have to fail right on "Q".
Neat and orderly results from chaotic input, ya, right & I'm the easter Bunny!

Also consider the big picture ... did you know that molten steel was observed at the site 16 days after 9/11! Something got hot enough that 16 days after, there where still puddles of molten steel in the wreckage.

BTW: look up DOUBLE THINK 1984

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
its
dim
Jed!
.

[USMC the Almighty]

Hve you looked at the Video of WTC7 falling?

Still going at it, eh Spam? Don't you ever get tired of saying the same thing over and over again, stuff that has been so thoroughly debunked. There are 15 threads on your little conspiracy. Keep it there. You've still got a lot of questions to answer over there.

[jb_1430]

WELL DUH! - do you expect orderly results from chaotic events?


???? Gravity is pretty predictable. It pulls things straight down.



Hve you looked at the Video of WTC7 falling? notice how neat and complete it is(?) If the fires and damage from stuff falling from the twin towers brought down the building, would you expect to see one part sag,

It did.


Early on, we saw a bulge in the southwest corner between floors 10 and 13, and we had put a transit on that and we were pretty sure she was going to collapse. You actually could see there was a visible bulge, it ran up about three floors.
http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/search/label/WTC%207%20Collapse
http://www.firehouse.com/terrorist/911/magazine/gz/hayden.html


MARK

[Sgt Schultz]

Note for Sgt Schultz Can your friend positivly identify what hit the Pentagon as a Boeing 757? or? It could just as well have been a cruse missile,
To quote Rummy "WHO KNOWS?"

Believe me he can. Both of us have worked around airplanes for 20+ years in the military. He knows what a 757 looks like and what a cruise missile looks like. BIG difference.

This is NOT acceptable, Cheney was in Charge of NORAD and just exactly what was Mr. Cheney doing from the time of the first hit to the WTC untill the hit to the PENTAGON?

Unfriggin' believable. VP Cheney isn't and never has been in charge of NORAD. I have to ask how much do you even know about the military or the chain of command.

[n0spam4me]

Please check this out
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/011805_simplify_case.shtml

By way of the Drills and exercises that where going on that morning, Richard Cheney had COMMAND AUTHORITY. There are a lot of military officers who will weigh in on this and confirm that Cheney had taken command and indeed with the backing of Presidential authority.

I submit that Richard Cheney:
A, Intended for the Pentagon to be hit.
or
B, Is so incompetent as to be unemployable at anything!

Pick one and in either case, WHY is this clown still on the payroll?
.

[Chin]

Please check this out
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/011805_simplify_case.shtml

By way of the Drills and exercises that where going on that morning, Richard Cheney had COMMAND AUTHORITY. There are a lot of military officers who will weigh in on this and confirm that Cheney had taken command and indeed with the backing of Presidential authority.

I submit that Richard Cheney:
A, Intended for the Pentagon to be hit.
or
B, Is so incompetent as to be unemployable at anything!

Pick one and in either case, WHY is this clown still on the payroll?
.

I submit that you are off your rocker and have little to no knowledge of this event wrt military exercises are conducted.

AND the WTC7 stuff is just bunk.

[n0spam4me]

Have you ever heard of DOUBLE THINK?

Historical examples enclude Thomas Jefferson holding SLAVES and at the same time promoting
"ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL"
This "more perfect union" proved to be not so perfect.
OOPS!

However there are other examples of DOUBLE THINK and todays mass media and our so-called "leaders" are playing mind games with the AMERICAN public.
Bad News!

Kill Your Television!
.

[USMC the Almighty]

Spam -- leave this "argument" for the conspiracy threads.

As for Jefferson -- you must remember that he was an 18th century man, where slaves weren't viewed as "men", but property protected under the 5th Amendment. Applying 21st century standards to a man of his times in the 18th century is unfair.

[KeepOurFreedoms]

There's no reasoning with him. Most 9/11 conspiracies don't even make sense because there is no reason for the Bush administration to do what they say. The only real argument a sane individual can make is that Bush knew but didn't do anything and this in itself is unprovable (like FDR and Pearl Harbor).

Control of the people.

[KeepOurFreedoms]

I submit that you are off your rocker and have little to no knowledge of this event wrt military exercises are conducted.

AND the WTC7 stuff is just bunk.

How do you explain the free fall demolition of building 7?

[Chin]

How do you explain the free fall demolition of building 7?

Gravity.

[KeepOurFreedoms]

Gravity.

Nope. Too much building in the way for free fall speed.

[jb_1430]

Nope. Too much building in the way for free fall speed.

You have merely heard the claim made over and over and over again. None of the buildings fell at freefall speed. MARK

[Chin]

Nope. Too much building in the way for free fall speed.


Here ya go, friend....

www.jod911.com/Roberts_WTC7_Lies.doc

It's a word Doc, so you'll need to download it.

[KeepOurFreedoms]

You have merely heard the claim made over and over and over again. None of the buildings fell at freefall speed. MARK

I've also watched the buildings fall as they fell on 9/11/01. Also have watched the videos many times since that day. Have You?

[KeepOurFreedoms]

Here ya go, friend....

www.jod911.com/Roberts_WTC7_Lies.doc

It's a word Doc, so you'll need to download it.

What is it? Does it have a virus in it? Who produced it? and for what purpose?

[USMC the Almighty]

One question:

Why would Bush "blow up" WTC 7? What possible reason would he have to do so?

If WTC 1 and WTC 2 were already down, then isn't the justification for war already there? What does Bush stand to gain from the collapse of WTC 7? Isn't his objective (providing a justification for war in Iraq) completed? Why would he jeopardize this? It's the same with the "missile" on the Pentagon?

Why would he need to do this, if the WTCs were already hit?

[vyo476]

One question:

Why would Bush "blow up" WTC 7? What possible reason would he have to do so?

If WTC 1 and WTC 2 were already down, then isn't the justification for war already there? What does Bush stand to gain from the collapse of WTC 7? Isn't his objective (providing a justification for war in Iraq) completed? Why would he jeopardize this? It's the same with the "missile" on the Pentagon?

Why would he need to do this, if the WTCs were already hit?

An excellent point. The Towers were not just buildings, they were huge symbols - driving planes into them was akin to dragging someone into town square, chopping off his thumbs, waiting for the town to show up and watch and then chopping off his head. Once that's done, why bother kicking a squirrel on the way out of town?

[n0spam4me]

Why distroy WTC towers and WTC7?
How about the destruction of EVIDENCE?

It was a shock and awe show for the AMERICA people so Bush would have the "political capital" to be able to work the plan of handing over AMERICA to GREED INC.

The hit to the PENTAGON qualifies as a surgical strike, the planers had it figured out who had to be eliminated to cover their tracks. The hit to the PENTAGON served the purpose of adding to the shock & awe show and also convenently killing people who where in a position to spoil the party for the perpeTRATORS.

What has Richard Cheney ever done that instills the trust that you seem to have for this man?

[KeepOurFreedoms]

One question:

Why would Bush "blow up" WTC 7? What possible reason would he have to do so?

If WTC 1 and WTC 2 were already down, then isn't the justification for war already there? What does Bush stand to gain from the collapse of WTC 7? Isn't his objective (providing a justification for war in Iraq) completed? Why would he jeopardize this? It's the same with the "missile" on the Pentagon?

Why would he need to do this, if the WTCs were already hit?


What offices were housed in 7?

[USMC the Almighty]

What offices were housed in 7?

I have no idea.

[USMC the Almighty]

Why distroy WTC towers and WTC7?
How about the destruction of EVIDENCE?

It was a shock and awe show for the AMERICA people so Bush would have the "political capital" to be able to work the plan of handing over AMERICA to GREED INC.

The hit to the PENTAGON qualifies as a surgical strike, the planers had it figured out who had to be eliminated to cover their tracks. The hit to the PENTAGON served the purpose of adding to the shock & awe show and also convenently killing people who where in a position to spoil the party for the perpeTRATORS.

What has Richard Cheney ever done that instills the trust that you seem to have for this man?

You failed at your attempt to dodge the question. If Bush wanted to give himself a justification for war, why would he continue to needlessly kill Americans once the justification had been provided? Saying "it's for Shock and Awe" doesn't answer the question. One hit would have been shock and awe. Four would've been excessive and way too risky if they were to actually plan them out. It would require a large amount of people (and every person could potentially reveal the plan) that simply weren't needed.

As for the Pentagon -- there's no way they would coordinate a strike on the Pentagon in hopes of killing people who were in on the plan. Thousands of people work there and only about 100 were killed. They couldn't have banked on killing specific workers within the Pentagon.

[jb_1430]

I've also watched the buildings fall as they fell on 9/11/01. Also have watched the videos many times since that day. Have You?

Of course I have. Im just not fool enough to believe that I can "watch" a video of a collapse and measure the speed of its fall. MARK

[KeepOurFreedoms]

Of course I have. Im just not fool enough to believe that I can "watch" a video of a collapse and measure the speed of its fall. MARK

What are you fool enough for? Believing what the government says........hook, line, and sinker?

[vyo476]

What offices were housed in 7?

Let's take a look...


Salomon Smith Barney was by far the largest tenant in 7 World Trade Center, occupying 1,202,900 sq. ft. (64% of the building) including floors 28–45. Other major tenants included ITT Hartford Insurance Group (122,590 sq ft), American Express Bank International (106,117 sq ft), Standard Chartered Bank (111,398 sq ft), and the Securities and Exchange Commission (106,117 sq ft). Smaller tenants included the Internal Revenue Service Regional Council (90,430 sq ft), and the United States Secret Service (85,343 sq ft). The smallest tenants included the New York City Office of Emergency Management, NAIC Securities, Federal Home Loan Bank, First State Management Group, Inc., Provident Financial Management, and the Immigration and Naturalization Service. The Department of Defense (DOD) and Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) shared floor #25 with the IRS. Floors 46–47 were mechanical floors, as well as the bottom 6 floors and part of floor #7.

About what you'd expect in an office building: financial groups, banks, and a few government offices. Is there anything in particular that needed to be taken out to add to the effect of 9/11?

[KeepOurFreedoms]

Let's take a look...



About what you'd expect in an office building: financial groups, banks, and a few government offices. Is there anything in particular that needed to be taken out to add to the effect of 9/11?

Sorry, I'll have to look later. I remember reading that the Government offices had certain documents in it that made life easier for certain people after being destroyed. Also that the command center for Towers I & II Destruction was in Building 7.

[USMC the Almighty]

You can't back up a conspiracy theory with another conspiracy theory.

[FRYandBENDER]

Does this guy turn every thread into a 9/11 conspiracy thread? What about Ron Paul? So far he has hijacked this thread and the one on Obama that I know of. It is kind of hard to have a real discussion with people taking every thread and somehow, lamely making it about 9/11 being an inside job.

[FRYandBENDER]

UPDATE: My offer was accepted. We'll be scheduling a conversation about Dr. Paul in the future. Updates to follow.

-Chin

That is pretty cool. I can't wait to hear how it goes.

[KeepOurFreedoms]

You can't back up a conspiracy theory with another conspiracy theory.

?????

[vyo476]

Just to clear up KOF's confusion...

The conspiracy we're debating is the destruction of 7 WTC. We're asking why the building was destroyed. KOF is saying that 7 WTC was destroyed to destroy documents that were harmful to certain individuals and because 7 WTC is where the command center for the destruction of the Towers was located.

USMC is saying this is not valid because it is backing up a conspiracy theory with a second conspiracy theory. The first is that 7 WTC was a controlled demolition; the second is that 7 WTC was the command center for the destruction of the Twin Towers.

KOF - is there any evidence that 7 WTC was the command center for the destruction of the Towers?

[USMC the Almighty]

Thank you, vyo.

[ArmChair General]

Just to clear up KOF's confusion...

The conspiracy we're debating is the destruction of 7 WTC. We're asking why the building was destroyed. KOF is saying that 7 WTC was destroyed to destroy documents that were harmful to certain individuals and because 7 WTC is where the command center for the destruction of the Towers was located.

USMC is saying this is not valid because it is backing up a conspiracy theory with a second conspiracy theory. The first is that 7 WTC was a controlled demolition; the second is that 7 WTC was the command center for the destruction of the Twin Towers.

KOF - is there any evidence that 7 WTC was the command center for the destruction of the Towers?

IF there were a command center for the destruction of the towers. Then building 7, would be the place that it would be at.

Its just common sense.

[Rokerijdude11]

Just to clear up KOF's confusion...

The conspiracy we're debating is the destruction of 7 WTC. We're asking why the building was destroyed. KOF is saying that 7 WTC was destroyed to destroy documents that were harmful to certain individuals and because 7 WTC is where the command center for the destruction of the Towers was located.

USMC is saying this is not valid because it is backing up a conspiracy theory with a second conspiracy theory. The first is that 7 WTC was a controlled demolition; the second is that 7 WTC was the command center for the destruction of the Twin Towers.

KOF - is there any evidence that 7 WTC was the command center for the destruction of the Towers?

Obviously there isnt any... real evidence to support the theory.. other than the mechanics of the building, and the engineering and mechanics, of Guilianis Command Bunker..
as well as KOF has brought to your attention the fact that 90% or more of the paperwork for the Enron and ensuing investigations were stored there as well

the Building was built of a VERY unique design from SEVERAL standpoints one of which actually allowed for the removal of large parts of the structure internally to change the configuration of the building

As well it was built straddling a Con Edison substation that powered that section of manhattan. the steel beams used in the base of the building because of that were said to be the THICKEST heaviest steel beams ever used in a building construction

the building was also built on a cantilever system which if any collapse following the Official story would have occurred the building would have toplled to one side for sure.....controlled demo is the only way seven was dropped like it was

the command center had just been finished alot of taxpayers dollars went in to it it had blast proof and hurricane proofed glass all around it as well as a HIGHLY sophisticated computerized security and communications center capapble of operating on its own in a crisis

it is the LOGICAL place for the detonantion sequences to have been conducted....at this time there is no smoking gun concerning the command center and its possible use as a control room......

[vyo476]

IF there were a command center for the destruction of the towers. Then building 7, would be the place that it would be at.

Its just common sense.

Okay, so it was logical. Still, that isn't evidence. I'm talking some hard, physical evidence - something concrete (please excuse the pun).

[ArmChair General]

Okay, so it was logical. Still, that isn't evidence. I'm talking some hard, physical evidence - something concrete (please excuse the pun).

Well there isn't any. But nobody is saying that there is.

[vyo476]

Well there isn't any. But nobody is saying that there is.

Okay. I was just asking if there was.