Land of the free?

[rejs7]

My latest offering:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwX2d9sMhgw

[lipmonkey]

Before I watch 5 plus minutes of it, what's the point you are making?

[rejs7]

Before I watch 5 plus minutes of it, what's the point you are making?

Looking at the current crop of American leaders vis a vie those of the past & asking if America still is the land of the free.

[lipmonkey]

Thank you.:cool:

[baldar]

Allow me to comment as we swarm into the historic mythos of America.

Jefferson was a cad, that slept with his slaves and was the starter of "dirty politics" in the US.

In my view George Washington is possibly the only man ever to have lived up to his mythic reputation. The more I learn about him, the greater I think he is.

Also taking quotes out of context is sooo Michael Moore. ;)

Overall a relatively trite inaccurate portrayal taking the quotes out of context and placing images that had nothing to do with the people making the quotes on them to make us assume a false responsibility. Definately from the Michael Moore school of "documentaries".

[rejs7]

Allow me to comment as we swarm into the historic mythos of America.

Jefferson was a cad, that slept with his slaves and was the starter of "dirty politics" in the US.

In my view George Washington is possibly the only man ever to have lived up to his mythic reputation. The more I learn about him, the greater I think he is.

Also taking quotes out of context is sooo Michael Moore. ;)

Overall a relatively trite inaccurate portrayal taking the quotes out of context and placing images that had nothing to do with the people making the quotes on them to make us assume a false responsibility. Definately from the Michael Moore school of "documentaries".

Thank you - it's nice to be compared to a palm d'or & oscar winner :D

[baldar]

You would change your mind if you worked for Moore or met him.

But then if you consider lies for the sake of a "greater truth" to be worthy of study, one is left to question the information you might present in posts here.

I won't disparage your supposed honesty, but can you really admire a man that lies? I know someone who worked with Moore, not a big wig, just a regular worker. Moore ripped them off and told the union to pound sand.

So when I use the image of "Moore" I use it in the context of falsehood. There are lots of bad men that have received many rewards and awards, I wouldn't want to be compared to them.

[drippinhun]

In my view George Washington is possibly the only man ever to have lived up to his mythic reputation. The more I learn about him, the greater I think he is.



The earth my stop, but on the point you make about George Washington, I agree. However, remember he was sacking out Lord Fairfax's wife, Sally, when the Lord was on his many journeys. But unlike Henry Hyde's humerous remark about his youthful indiscretions when he was in his 40s, Mr. Washington was really a young man when he was rather overty rambunctious with his next door neighbor.

[baldar]

He wasn't sleeping with the wife of Farifax. Never had. He did love her, but thought too much of her and himself and his reputation to do so. It is something I have looked into. He was as stiff necked as he could be, but I must tell you, he lived up to his reputation.

[Justinian]

Allow me to comment as we swarm into the historic mythos of America.

Jefferson was a cad, that slept with his slaves and was the starter of "dirty politics" in the US.

In my view George Washington is possibly the only man ever to have lived up to his mythic reputation. The more I learn about him, the greater I think he is.

Also taking quotes out of context is sooo Michael Moore. ;)

Overall a relatively trite inaccurate portrayal taking the quotes out of context and placing images that had nothing to do with the people making the quotes on them to make us assume a false responsibility. Definately from the Michael Moore school of "documentaries".
I agree. I believe this reflects the truth.

[rejs7]

I agree. I believe this reflects the truth.

America has produced amazing rulers in times of adversity - Washington, Kennedy, Roosevelt, Lincoln etc - but the point I tried to make in the video is that the current crop of GOP leaders is making a mockery of that herritage.

I did not try to take the quotes out of context, rather sat them side-by-side with each other with no judgement at all - I actually used two intelligent Bush quotes, and an intelligent Cheney one - there are far worse quotes out there than the ones I used.

[Castle]

I found it interesting how you cleverly spun racism as a conservative issue.
While I was viewing the burning cross, I thought "curious how you never mention West Virginia Senator Robert Byrd." This liberal was unanimously elected to be the leader, known as the Exalted Cyclops, of his local chapter of the KKK....but you already knew that right?

Very clever.

-Castle

[rejs7]

I found it interesting how you cleverly spun racism as a conservative issue.
While I was viewing the burning cross, I thought "curious how you never mention West Virginia Senator Robert Byrd." This liberal was unanimously elected to be the leader, known as the Exalted Cyclops, of his local chapter of the KKK....but you already knew that right?

Very clever.

-Castle

Thanks for the heads up - I was merely trying to create a sense of where the current undertoe of discrimination might lead - hense why I put the liberated concentration camp survivours at the end - America set them free on principle.

[OPGhostdog]

The issue that we face in government isn't based on which
political party has the most racist members in a group.
However the issue does show how people in both parties is
abusing their power.

If we the people is the government. Then why are we allowing
this crap to ruin our government image? Now lets talk about the
land of the free. I enjoy watching Mike Moore's documentaries,
and I think its Mike's rights to express his opinions by means of
making movies.

What I am clearly seeing is most of you Republicians dislike the
guy because of his style to show the facts how Bush has screwed
America. I (personally) visit the area of Flint Michigan which is
Mike's home, and I have found Mike to be a very interesting guy.

Like I mentioned in one of my earlier posts ..I don't do the 4th of
July. Because of MY RIGHTS to feel that we are far from being
Independent. Free to do what? Yet again many of you would say
Ghostdog, you have more freedom then people in other countries.
Sure...that's your opinion, and you are right. Again, I also have
my opinions too.

In closing..what we need to do is to examine the true meaning
the Land of the Free, and see if we are really free as we claim to be.

[vyo476]

The issue that we face in government isn't based on which
political party has the most racist members in a group.
However the issue does show how people in both parties is
abusing their power.

If we the people is the government. Then why are we allowing
this crap to ruin our government image?

Excellent question. The answer, if I'm not much mistaken, is that we've just gotten so incredibly wrapped up in "the process" that by the time we see the result there isn't a whole lot that can be done about it without violating the law.


Now lets talk about the
land of the free. I enjoy watching Mike Moore's documentaries,
and I think its Mike's rights to express his opinions by means of
making movies.

What I am clearly seeing is most of you Republicians dislike the
guy because of his style to show the facts how Bush has screwed
America. I (personally) visit the area of Flint Michigan which is
Mike's home, and I have found Mike to be a very interesting guy.

Yes, he's interesting. Yes, he's funny. Yes, he has every right to continue spreading his opinion in whatever way suits him. No, his films are not enjoyed by conservatives, for two reasons - one, those films attack them the whole time, and two, they're propaganda.


Like I mentioned in one of my earlier posts ..I don't do the 4th of
July. Because of MY RIGHTS to feel that we are far from being
Independent. Free to do what? Yet again many of you would say
Ghostdog, you have more freedom then people in other countries.
Sure...that's your opinion, and you are right. Again, I also have
my opinions too.

In closing..what we need to do is to examine the true meaning
the Land of the Free, and see if we are really free as we claim to be.

I just walked outside my house and yelled "President Bush is a dirty pedophile!" at the top of my lungs. Insulting the leader in power like that is one of our freedoms. If I found a bunch of other people who felt the same way, I could form a grassroots organization denouncing President Bush's alleged pedophilia. If we got enough supporters rallied to our cause, we could take our case to Washington - a massive letter writing campaign, a march on the White House, angry signs written in Sharpie on those neat multi-colored poster boards...the whole deal. If we made enough noise and had enough support, we could get President Bush impeached and thrown out of office.

You can't do all that alone - you have to have the support of a large number of people. While this may seem as though it is forcing you to be a slave of the masses, look closely and you'll realize that it is a necessary evil: if you could circumvent all of them you would be disregarding their opinions and violating their rights, even if they agree with you. Perhaps especially if they agree with you - that's how fascism starts.

So there's your political freedom...social freedom we're still working on, admittedly. Jim Crow is dead but racial profiling remains. Roe vs. Wade stands but is constantly under attack. Gays can't get married anywhere but Massachusetts while bigots stand around saying that they're afforded total equality. It's a work in progress, but it has been a work in progress since the signing of the Declaration of Independence. These things don't happen overnight.

And finally, there's economic freedom. Capitalism is railed against as being completely unfair to the poor and a catering service for the wealthy. For one thing, I'd like to point out that that happens in all economic systems - the wealthy, those who control the power, are naturally in the best position to procure more of it. Those without wealth are naturally in the worst position to procure more, because of a lack of resources.

However, the economic system of the United States has evolved to give the poor more chances. Public education seeks to give poor children the education required to then be eligible for college, which the federal government is willing to pay for if the student does not have the means (although FAFSA is very strict in its definition of "does not have the means"). According to US Census figures, the household income of those without college degrees averaged about $40,000 in 2000, while the income of households with college degrees averaged very close to $70,000. Education equals money.

So in conclusion...yeah, this is still the Land of the Free.

[drippinhun]

Education equals money? I would suggest that schooling usually results in higher wages. But formal schooling doesn't necessarily equate to being educated.

[vyo476]

Education equals money? I would suggest that schooling usually results in higher wages. But formal schooling doesn't necessarily equate to being educated.

The numbers disagree. Yeah, there are exceptions, but for the most part - you go to school, you're setting yourself up for a better living.

[drippinhun]

The numbers disagree. Yeah, there are exceptions, but for the most part - you go to school, you're setting yourself up for a better living.

What I am saying is formal schooling and education are two differnet things. Formal schooling is what usually gets one a better job position in the employment world.

[9sublime]

I just walked outside my house and yelled "President Bush is a dirty pedophile!" at the top of my lungs. Insulting the leader in power like that is one of our freedoms. If I found a bunch of other people who felt the same way, I could form a grassroots organization denouncing President Bush's alleged pedophilia. If we got enough supporters rallied to our cause, we could take our case to Washington - a massive letter writing campaign, a march on the White House, angry signs written in Sharpie on those neat multi-colored poster boards...the whole deal. If we made enough noise and had enough support, we could get President Bush impeached and thrown out of office.



Don't you have libel and slander laws at all in your country? I think free speech is the most important thing in the world, but thats a downright lie and if someone was to say that about you and form a grassroots organization about it then you would want to pursue it.

[vyo476]

Don't you have libel and slander laws at all in your country? I think free speech is the most important thing in the world, but thats a downright lie and if someone was to say that about you and form a grassroots organization about it then you would want to pursue it.

I should have chosen a better example - I chose the one I did because I'm pretty sure pedophilia is the only thing Bush hasn't been accused of yet and I wanted to demonstrate that a grassroots organization can go from the opinion of one person to a national movement.

A grassroots organization advocating that the War on Terror is over oil would meet with more legal success. I apologize for the bad example but I think the point is still valid.

[Justinian]

In todays times of half-wit judgement and hippy-esque prominence I must assert that racism, descrimination is much more complicated in its motivations and intricate than you think. This idea of racism being wrong and the concept of racism itself is a western invention by the architects, supporters and advocates of multi-culturalism. Fortunately and unfortunately, these people are and always have been the minority. There is no real evidence at all that multiculturalism and diversity is beneficial but on the contrary, there is much evidence and statistics it is detrimental and overtly destructive. Your own assertions that it is a undebatable fact that 'racism' is wrong is just a bunch of words with no real substance like most of the liberal jargon that has come in abundance to this country in the last fifty years. As a matter of fact, I have always argued that Multiculturalism is the enemy of freedom for a country's people and the idea of native political abuse and suppression for the enforcement and protection of foreigners being equality is simple plain ignorence. In truth, no Anglo but a fool will ever admit he wanted non-Anglo foreigners in his country which by most people's definition would be racism even if it's not physical or verbal racism. To then conclude that Native outbursts and rage against minorities and their penetrating foreign ways is against Freedom, then you my friend are not acquainted with the facts and the Bull Sh- that has been dumped on the Americans and what the Americans have had to endure because of lies and Politically tyrannical behavior and actions. And once this happens, people with the opinions such as yourselves appear to defend the very yoke of control and destruction against the real native-fashioned Americans of old because of the crap that has been taught to you by the schools or your families that was created by the very people who were the creators and advocates of the lies and Political BS in the first place. This is why this opinion has such a loud voice with no factual backing and why honest, clear-thinking people like me get denounced and screamed at "Racist" and "Hate-crime" and the truth is buried and covered up. The System creates people who are anti-racist (at least they say they are and they're usually racist too/anyway) to cover their own mistakes and brainwash and support the brainwashing of the new doctrine for us to not hold foreigners or the government responsible. In reality, most everyone is racist. Guess what, if you hang out with people of your own background and color, that's racism. Racism is natural and a big component of how the very first countries were able to be organized out of trees, dirt and rock. I will never lay down to foreign invaders because my family has been here too long and I'm too smart for that.

[drippinhun]

I should have chosen a better example - I chose the one I did because I'm pretty sure pedophilia is the only thing Bush hasn't been accused of yet and I wanted to demonstrate that a grassroots organization can go from the opinion of one person to a national movement.

A grassroots organization advocating that the War on Terror is over oil would meet with more legal success. I apologize for the bad example but I think the point is still valid.

I would not allow GW to watch my child. I'm dead serious and have said that for years. Like when people use to ask would you rather have a beer with Bush or Gore? Well I believe I could have an enjoyable conversation with Al Gore. Bush? Forget it. So is he a pedophile? You ask George and he tell you he walks on water. So based on his sales pitch, I guess you might say, "No."

[9sublime]

I should have chosen a better example - I chose the one I did because I'm pretty sure pedophilia is the only thing Bush hasn't been accused of yet and I wanted to demonstrate that a grassroots organization can go from the opinion of one person to a national movement.

A grassroots organization advocating that the War on Terror is over oil would meet with more legal success. I apologize for the bad example but I think the point is still valid.

Yeah, I'm just being picky. I think the point is very valid.

Almost at the 1,000 post count eh?

[vyo476]

Yeah, I'm just being picky. I think the point is very valid.

Almost at the 1,000 post count eh?

Ooh, yeah. Do balloons fall out of the ceiling or something?

[9sublime]

Maybe you change from senior member to something nerdy like forum god. We do need a couple more of them for comedy value though, rather than just junior member, member and senior member.

[rejs7]

Maybe you change from senior member to something nerdy like forum god. We do need a couple more of them for comedy value though, rather than just junior member, member and senior member.

Or Quioxte demigogue - slayer of all mental windmills?