Should Cinco de Mayo be celebrated in America?

[steveox]

I say no! Its an mexican independance day when Mexico declared its independence from Spain. It should be celebrated in their country not in america.A lot of illegals celebrate it here in america.I would like to see a law no promoting Cinco de Mayo in america.Any one celebrates this on May 5th in any american city or town faces a fine of $500 plus 5 days in jail.

[JavaBlack]

Then don't celebrate it.
But it's not up to you to say what I can or can't celebrate in America.
Besides what is not good about a country declaring independence from empires? Seems to me Mexico, India, and every other country that kicked colonialists out should be a cause for celebration in the country that started the trend.

[9sublime]

Don't celebrate Christmas, Jesus wasn't born in America.

[MarkVI]

I would like to see a law no promoting Cinco de Mayo in america.

awww... does that mean I will no longer be able to have my birthday celebrated? How terrible :eek:

Also with Easter/spring break: the origins of that occured in the middle east too.

And Valentine's day, I believe it was a Roman who kicked that one off...

This multicultural melting pot mentality will be the end of our country and the principles it was founded on! :p

[steveox]

Cinco de Mayo is not an American holiday tradition. America was founded by english people first and the english bought religion with em. Everyone of those quakers settlers bought a bible with em. Thats how we celebrated christmas and easter.So if an holiday is un american it shouldnt be celebrated here in america.

[9sublime]

English people come to America, celebrate Christmas.
Jews come to America, celebrate hanukkah.
Mexicans come to America, celebrate Cinco de Mayo.

[Segep]

Um....America wasn't "founded' by English people. It was stolen by them. I guess we ban everything but the Sun Dance, now, huh? :D

[lipmonkey]

So much for St Patrick's day.:confused:

[Segep]

So much for St Patrick's day.:confused:

Damn, that's one of my favorites, too.

[Mare Tranquillity]

Cinco de Mayo is not an American holiday tradition. America was founded by english people first and the english bought religion with em. Everyone of those quakers settlers bought a bible with em. Thats how we celebrated christmas and easter.So if an holiday is un american it shouldnt be celebrated here in america.

You really don't know much about history, do you? The US was founded by white people, but America was settled first by the indigenous people upon whom we committed genocide so that we could steal their land.

[9sublime]

Maybe you should ask your history teacher steve.

[steveox]

Ever wonder why america is fighting each other now? Its because of traditions ruined. Marrage is supposed to be between a man and a woman not a man and a man or a woman and a woman.
Like Cities are Banning christmas decorations and you cant have a Nativity displayed on your property. You cant sing christmas carols in school. You should go back to the 1950s and learn how people got along with each other and respected one another like they used too.

[lipmonkey]

Believe it or not there were problems in the 50's too Steve. Time are changing, and you can change with it or stay stuck in the past.

[Segep]

Ever wonder why america is fighting each other now? Its because of traditions ruined. Marrage is supposed to be between a man and a woman not a man and a man or a woman and a woman.
Like Cities are Banning christmas decorations and you cant have a Nativity displayed on your property. You cant sing christmas carols in school. You should go back to the 1950s and learn how people got along with each other and respected one another like they used too.

You mean like when it was acceptable to beat your children and your wife? When blacks had to use the back door and separate drinking fountains?
When people's lives were destroyed because of McCarthy?

No thanks.


Last I knew it was perfectly legal to have a Nativity scene on your lawn--unless you live somewhere with a neighborhood charter.

[steveox]

You mean like when it was acceptable to beat your children and your wife? When blacks had to use the back door and separate drinking fountains?
When people's lives were destroyed because of McCarthy?

No thanks.


Last I knew it was perfectly legal to have a Nativity scene on your lawn--unless you live somewhere with a neighborhood charter.

Thats why Kids are commiting crimes. Lack of disapline from parents cause the government says you cant whack em.Go see Californias laws for example you cant whack little kids cause they misbehave in public.Cause if you whack kids in a grocery store someone can call child services on ya or make an citinzens arrest on ya.

[Segep]

lmao

You sound like Don Corleone.

[steveox]

I like Mob movies. Im a huge Soprano fan. Its too bad the series ended.Hopfuly theyre make a motion picture movie on the Sopranos.

[Segep]

I've never seen it, but I love Christopher Walken. I know he's not in it, but he plays great mobster characters. I guess I missed the first few seasons so I never bothered watching any of it. I did watch an episode the other day though, and it looked really good.

My kid likes it too. Maybe I'll buy him season 1 and we'll both watch it.

[Beetle Bailey]

I say no! Its an mexican independance day when Mexico declared its independence from Spain. It should be celebrated in their country not in america.A lot of illegals celebrate it here in america.I would like to see a law no promoting Cinco de Mayo in america.Any one celebrates this on May 5th in any american city or town faces a fine of $500 plus 5 days in jail.

Again I have to pose the question. Could you possibly be more ignorant? Cinco de Mayo has absolutely nothing to do with Mexican independence. And no one in Mexico celebrates it. It's merely an observance. America is the only place where they do celebrate it. Oh and by the way. While you are busy deciding what laws to make for everyone, consider this. We should out law the Confederate flag. It remains a symbol of racism and hatred while dumb rednecks defend it as a symbol of rebellion and the southern way of life. I think any American who displays the flag of racism should face a fine of $500 plus five days in jail. Makes at least as much sense as anything you have ever said.

[steveox]

Again, Its an Latino Holiday.Not an American Holiday.

[USMC the Almighty]

We should out law the Confederate flag. It remains a symbol of racism and hatred while dumb rednecks defend it as a symbol of rebellion and the southern way of life. I think any American who displays the flag of racism should face a fine of $500 plus five days in jail. Makes at least as much sense as anything you have ever said.

Spoken like a true liberal.

[Beetle Bailey]

Spoken like a true liberal.

Spoken like a true nit wit. The kind that needs to catagorize and stereotype to make his little world work. And apparently doesn't quite fathom the concept of irony or sarcasm.

[steveox]

We should out law the Confederate flag. It remains a symbol of racism and hatred while dumb rednecks defend it as a symbol of rebellion and the southern way of life. I think any American who displays the flag of racism should face a fine of $500 plus five days in jail. Makes at least as much sense as anything you have ever said.

Man!! Read my avatar,, If you think a conferate flag represents racism then you dont know your history lessons.

[USMC the Almighty]

Spoken like a true nit wit. The kind that needs to catagorize and stereotype to make his little world work. And apparently doesn't quite fathom the concept of irony or sarcasm.

Hahaha. That sure didn't seem like irony or sarcasm. If you really believe that the Confederate flag should be outlawed, then you, ma'am, are a true nit wit.

[steveox]

Beetle Bailey is making a personal attack here.I dont know thats against the rules here. The Other forum you get 2 points if you make an personal attack.

[Beetle Bailey]

Hahaha. That sure didn't seem like irony or sarcasm. If you really believe that the Confederate flag should be outlawed, then you, ma'am, are a true nit wit.

Kind of disappointing. Probably your best shot too. Not really very clever or articulate or insightful or anything. Doesn't really sound like the Marine Corps officers I have known. They have all been extremely intelligent, dedicated, thoughtful men. Men who can usually articulate their thoughts in a very straight forward manner. Even if they didn't graduate from Annapolis. Some of the finest officers I have ever known came from ROTC or OCS. You don't sound anything like any of them.

[USMC the Almighty]

Kind of disappointing. Probably your best shot too. Not really very clever or articulate or insightful or anything. Doesn't really sound like the Marine Corps officers I have known. They have all been extremely intelligent, dedicated, thoughtful men. Men who can usually articulate their thoughts in a very straight forward manner. Even if they didn't graduate from Annapolis. Some of the finest officers I have ever known came from ROTC or OCS. You don't sound anything like any of them.

Skipping over all the personal attack BS, by sheer numbers, OCS and ROTC will produce more good officers. But USNA ones stay in the Corps longer on average.

[r0beph]

Man!! Read my avatar,, If you think a conferate flag represents racism then you dont know your history lessons.


It's the flag representing the people standing up against things they want different. Maybe those iraqis should borrow it? Perhaps the IRA would have use for it too? The major talking points of the confederacy WAS the remainder of slaves. And I shall quote.

C.S. Vice President Alexander Stephens, declared that the "cornerstone" of the new government "rest[ed] upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery—subordination to the superior race—is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth". Four of the seceding states, the Deep South states of South Carolina, Mississippi, Georgia, and Texas, issued formal declarations of causes, each of which identified the threat to slaveholders’ rights as the cause of, or a major cause of, secession; Georgia also claimed a general Federal policy of favoring Northern over Southern economic interests.


and let's see what the states declarations of secession say. (since this is the reason that the battle flag was ever raised, and thus the thread that weaves the banner. )

S. Carolina
The people of the State of South Carolina, in Convention assembled, on the 26th day of April, A.D., 1852, declared that the frequent violations of the Constitution of the United States, by the Federal Government, and its encroachments upon the reserved rights of the States, fully justified this State in then withdrawing from the Federal Union; but in deference to the opinions and wishes of the other slaveholding States, she forbore at that time to exercise this right. Since that time, these encroachments have continued to increase, and further forbearance ceases to be a virtue.
Full Text (http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/csa/scarsec.htm)

Mississippi
Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin.
Full Text (http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/csa/missec.htm)

Georgia
For the last ten years we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our non-slave-holding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery. They have endeavored to weaken our security, to disturb our domestic peace and tranquility, and persistently refused to comply with their express constitutional obligations to us in reference to that property, and by the use of their power in the Federal Government have striven to deprive us of an equal enjoyment of the common Territories of the Republic.
~~
All these classes saw this and felt it and cast about for new allies. The anti-slavery sentiment of the North offered the best chance for success. An anti-slavery party must necessarily look to the North alone for support, but a united North was now strong enough to control the Government in all of its departments, and a sectional party was therefore determined upon. Time and issues upon slavery were necessary to its completion and final triumph. The feeling of anti-slavery, which it was well known was very general among the people of the North, had been long dormant or passive; it needed only a question to arouse it into aggressive activity. This question was before us. We had acquired a large territory by successful war with Mexico; Congress had to govern it; how, in relation to slavery, was the question then demanding solution. This state of facts gave form and shape to the anti-slavery sentiment throughout the North and the conflict began. Northern anti-slavery men of all parties asserted the right to exclude slavery from the territory by Congressional legislation and demanded the prompt and efficient exercise of this power to that end.
Full Text (http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/csa/geosec.htm)


Texas
Texas abandoned her separate national existence and consented to become one of the Confederated Union to promote her welfare, insure domestic tranquility and secure more substantially the blessings of peace and liberty to her people. She was received into the confederacy with her own constitution, under the guarantee of the federal constitution and the compact of annexation, that she should enjoy these blessings. She was received as a commonwealth holding, maintaining and protecting the institution known as negro slavery-- the servitude of the African to the white race within her limits-- a relation that had existed from the first settlement of her wilderness by the white race, and which her people intended should exist in all future time. Her institutions and geographical position established the strongest ties between her and other slave-holding States of the confederacy. Those ties have been strengthened by association. But what has been the course of the government of the United States, and of the people and authorities of the non-slave-holding States, since our connection with them?
Full Text (http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/csa/texsec.htm)


I believe the need for a history lesson is YOURS my friend. The flag is the battle flag of a war fought majorily for the slave trade. To commit obligatory slavery based on a race, is by virtue, racist, as you are objectifying a race as property. Please stop playing the Southern Cross battle flag defense card it's the lowest in the deck. That argument is old and tired, and hopefully I'll not have to repeat it. You my friend are racist, you are highly inflammatory, you are highly biased without reason other than obvious ignorance. No this is not a personal attack on you but rather your manner of thought and incorrect notions that anyone is of lesser value than yourself, I feel that quite the inverse, we need more intellectualism and less of a grip on tired old tradition based on malbelief. Sure they had OTHER reasons for succession but these were major talking points.

In regards to cinco de mayo. It's a fun holiday, up there with my St Patrick's day. Let the beer pour, I figured a good ol' boy like yourself would love that. Except oh gee, it's a holiday with a spanish name. Poor racists, can't enjoy a good beer.

Also, by the way, september 16th is mexican independance day ;) just so ya know.

Also lastly, let me note for you Mr. History Buff....That is not the confederate flag.

This is...
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/63/StarsNBars13Stars.gif

What you're displaying is the CSA Battle Flag, dubbed The Southern Cross.



/////Quick note, I was born and raised in Northern Alabama. Good day sir.

[r0beph]

Also, cinco de mayo is the celebration of mexico kicking the French in the sack, as a true red and blue star studded american, why can't you support drinking beer to the idea of the french getting their asses kicked?

.....drivel

[USMC the Almighty]

The flag is the battle flag of a war fought majorily for the slave trade.

This is what you base your entire argument on...and it's wrong. The Civil War was not fought over slavery.

[r0beph]

The civil war was fought over secession. The Secession was brought on by the north's interference in the slave trade and ownership. 4 of the 11 used it as their MAIN points for secession. The war due to secession ergo for slavery. Albeit there were a few other reasons, however the majority heralded slavery as the point in question. I've done my research, please sir, tell me then why it was fought?

[USMC the Almighty]

The civil war was fought over secession.

Partly correct. In the course of history, wars had historically been fought by two armies battling over land. The Civil War was more than this. It was the first war of ideas. It was a war of two civilizations, not merely two armies.

The Secession was brought on by the north's interference in the slave trade and ownership.

Partly correct, once again. This is a highly simplified version. The injection of slavery into the political arena (end of Gag Rule in 1846, KS-NB Act, Lecompton, Bleeding Kansas, etc...) is one reason. Another is the sharp mistrust of government despite what I believe were the good intentions of well meaning figures like James Buchanan, in part due to Bleeding Kansas and the Lecompton Constitution.

In addition, the South believed it could survive on its own ("Cotton is King") financially in light of the panic of 1857 which nearly crippled the North and left most of the South unscathed.

And lastly, the South felt as though it had been politically ostracized from the republic following Lincoln's victory in 1860. Many of the Southern states didn't even have Lincoln on the ballot and he still won.

So from a Southern perspective, they saw it as the Northern elite assaulting their society's ideology itself, they believed they could survive on their own financially, and they felt politically cut off. This is essentially my thesis on the causes of the Civil War. Ideological. Economic. Political.

Not just "they fought over slavery".

"My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it." -- Abraham Lincoln

[r0beph]

"My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it." -- Abraham Lincoln

That quote really has no bearing on the heart of the southern ideology. Sure they fought over much more than slavery, that is hardly in contention. But slavery WAS a big part and thus the war was fought over slavery [in part] just the same this incepts the southern cross' association with the slavery ideal. The problem is, I believe, that the southern ideology of the time was wayward and highly flawed, the banner of the battle flag today is not waved to show support for this form of thinking, I mean a likely 99% of those with the flag in their window fail to realize any of the reasoning behind the war. So why do they hoist it? They stout southern pride, but being southern, I have no pride in the past as flawed as it was. Many great things were done in those times by those of the south, rest assured, but that flag reminds me, educated in the historical relevance, of slavery among many other things, some of pride, some of disgust. This being said I couldn't raise such a banner to show my pride because it represents many things I hold as sacrilege against humanity. My pride in my southern heritage lies in that I am from the place that discovered peanut butter.

[USMC the Almighty]

That quote really has no bearing on the heart of the southern ideology. Sure they fought over much more than slavery, that is hardly in contention. But slavery WAS a big part and thus the war was fought over slavery [in part] just the same this incepts the southern cross' association with the slavery ideal.

The quote serves to support my contention that the Civil War was not fought over slavery and the Union's Commander/President agreed.

The problem is, I believe, that the southern ideology of the time was wayward and highly flawed, the banner of the battle flag today is not waved to show support for this form of thinking, I mean a likely 99% of those with the flag in their window fail to realize any of the reasoning behind the war. So why do they hoist it? They stout southern pride, but being southern, I have no pride in the past as flawed as it was. Many great things were done in those times by those of the south, rest assured, but that flag reminds me, educated in the historical relevance, of slavery among many other things, some of pride, some of disgust. This being said I couldn't raise such a banner to show my pride because it represents many things I hold as sacrilege against humanity.

Show me one country that doesn't have something of a flawed history in hindsight. To be completely honest, if my great-grandfather, a sergeant in the Union Army could see the state of affairs in the country he fought to save -- he might say he fought for the wrong side.

[Bunz]

Cinco De Mayo is not a big deal, its just another excuse to drink beer. I barely remember the best 4th of July party I was apart of. It took place in Perth, Australia.
I think the drum has been beat dead on the idiocy of not celebrating foreign holidays so I will spare it.

[mustardayonnaise]

Show me one country that doesn't have something of a flawed history in hindsight. To be completely honest, if my great-grandfather, a sergeant in the Union Army could see the state of affairs in the country he fought to save -- he might say he fought for the wrong side.

And how many countries still glorify their flawed histories? You can dance around the issue all day, economics, ideology, etc.... but the Confederate economy was based on slave labour, and their ideology was one of the superiority of the "White Race". They seceded from the union to prevent interference in their reliance on slave labour to drive their production and profits, the southern cross is the battle standard raised in the fight to protect slave-ownership, therefore it is a symbol of slavery and oppression to all who oppose such things. How can it be any different?

[USMC the Almighty]

How can it be any different?

Because the Southern ideology was focused around States' Rights and limited government. That's what the flag stands for, not slavery.

EDIT: I just want to make clear that I'm not some Dixie-singing Confederate sympathizer. I was raised in the Northeast and lived there for most of my life. In fact, General Sherman is one of my heroes. I am just trying to set the historical record straight here.

[Beetle Bailey]

The quote serves to support my contention that the Civil War was not fought over slavery and the Union's Commander/President agreed.



Show me one country that doesn't have something of a flawed history in hindsight. To be completely honest, if my great-grandfather, a sergeant in the Union Army could see the state of affairs in the country he fought to save -- he might say he fought for the wrong side.

No doubt your ancestor would be aghast at the profligate nature by which this country wastes blood and treasure in ill-advised foreign adventures.

[USMC the Almighty]

No doubt your ancestor would be aghast at the profligate nature by which this country wastes blood and treasure in ill-advised foreign adventures.

Absolutely correct. In addition to the removal of God from the public square, political correctness, and defeatism that has taken over this country.

[KeepOurFreedoms]

You really don't know much about history, do you? The US was founded by white people, but America was settled first by the indigenous people upon whom we committed genocide so that we could steal their land.

What about this?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennewick_Man

[mustardayonnaise]

Because the Southern ideology was focused around States' Rights and limited government. That's what the flag stands for, not slavery.

EDIT: I just want to make clear that I'm not some Dixie-singing Confederate sympathizer. I was raised in the Northeast and lived there for most of my life. In fact, General Sherman is one of my heroes. I am just trying to set the historical record straight here.

I see your point and I know the flag itself doesn't represent slavery, but when the states attempting secession openly declare that they do so in order to maintain slavery and insist on the superiority of the "White Race", these reasons will be given more weight than States' rights, especially given what they wanted to do with those rights. The historical record is pretty clear on this.

Caveat: I'm not American, nor have I ever lived there. I give my opinions on this discussion based on my (admittedly limited) knowledge of U.S. history. If I make any glaring errors or false assumptions, let me know. I'm here to learn, after all.

[9sublime]

Ever wonder why america is fighting each other now? Its because of traditions ruined. Marrage is supposed to be between a man and a woman not a man and a man or a woman and a woman.
Like Cities are Banning christmas decorations and you cant have a Nativity displayed on your property. You cant sing christmas carols in school. You should go back to the 1950s and learn how people got along with each other and respected one another like they used too.


I was going back through the topic as I've been away again for a week, and I came accross this post. How does a man and a man marrying make the whole world break down steve?

Its not the man and the man marrying, its the people who are so stuck in their ways that have to fight it for no real good reason as they have no leg to stand on. They are the ones who make the world a more unhappy place.

Apart from that, I agree with you. While I hate organized religion, Christmas is Christmas, and if you want to celebrate it, fair play to you.

Back the original topic though, why cant Mexicans celebrate something foreign in your country steveox? I'm still waiting for a reply on why you are therefore allowed to celebrate Christmas, Easter, St. Patricks Day etc. Once again your muddled political brain has made you blurt out a comment that you dont actually believe in, its just fuelled by an underlying dislike of your Mexican immigrants.

[Beetle Bailey]

Absolutely correct. In addition to the removal of God from the public square, political correctness, and defeatism that has taken over this country.

Of course, political correctness is all relative. I'm sure anti-slavery used to be regarded as such. Not slaughtering Indians probably used to be politically correct too.

[KeepOurFreedoms]

What about this?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennewick_Man

http://www.mnh.si.edu/arctic/html/kennewick_man.html


Public interest, debate, and controversy began when an independent archaeologist, working on contract to the Kennewick coroner, decided the bones were ancient but might not be Native American. He described them as "Caucasoid" and sent a piece of bone to a laboratory to be dated. The final date indicated an age of 9,000 years, making Kennewick Man one of the oldest and most complete skeletons found in the Americas. Subsequent tests of other bone samples showed the skeleton to be somewhere between 5650 and 9510 years old. But if it is true that these human remains are thousands of years old, and are not Native American, then who was Kennewick Man? This question raised a number of other questions that have put Kennewick Man "on trial" in the public eye.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/first/kennewick.html

[USMC the Almighty]

...these reasons will be given more weight than States' rights, especially given what they wanted to do with those rights.

But it doesn't matter what any given individual or state does with their rights, the war was fought over the principle that the federal government could not control them.

[Vitiate]

I say no! Its an mexican independance day when Mexico declared its independence from Spain. It should be celebrated in their country not in america.A lot of illegals celebrate it here in america.I would like to see a law no promoting Cinco de Mayo in america.Any one celebrates this on May 5th in any american city or town faces a fine of $500 plus 5 days in jail.


How have you not been eliminated from the gene pool yet?

[vyo476]

How have you not been eliminated from the gene pool yet?

I don't think he's been around long enough.

[vyo476]

Should Cinco de Mayo be celebrated in America?

I have a wacky question. Who the hell cares whether people celebrate it? If I want to celebrate Apple Day I damn well will. That's October 21, in case anyone's interested.

[mustardayonnaise]

But it doesn't matter what any given individual or state does with their rights, the war was fought over the principle that the federal government could not control them.

Over the principle that the federal government could not control their use of slave labour. The Confederate states themselves were very clear on this. Just because it wasn't the sole reason doesn't make it any less valid. In an earlier post you said:

So from a Southern perspective, they saw it as the Northern elite assaulting their society's ideology itself, they believed they could survive on their own financially, and they felt politically cut off. This is essentially my thesis on the causes of the Civil War. Ideological. Economic. Political.

The only point here which does not have the continued enslavement of Blacks as a core principle is that they felt politically isolated. Sorry, but one out of three isn't enough to discount slavery. The American Civil War has been and will continue to be remembered as a war of ideology between people who kept slaves and people who didn't.

And of course it matters what they did with their rights. If they can't exercise those rights responsibly then they don't deserve them.

[KeepOurFreedoms]

I was going back through the topic as I've been away again for a week, and I came accross this post. How does a man and a man marrying make the whole world break down steve?

Its not the man and the man marrying, its the people who are so stuck in their ways that have to fight it for no real good reason as they have no leg to stand on. They are the ones who make the world a more unhappy place.

Apart from that, I agree with you. While I hate organized religion, Christmas is Christmas, and if you want to celebrate it, fair play to you.

Back the original topic though, why cant Mexicans celebrate something foreign in your country steveox? I'm still waiting for a reply on why you are therefore allowed to celebrate Christmas, Easter, St. Patricks Day etc. Once again your muddled political brain has made you blurt out a comment that you dont actually believe in, its just fuelled by an underlying dislike of your Mexican immigrants.

Perhaps it is your muddled brain that can't see the facts.

Christmas, Easter, St. Patricks day are all related to Christianity, a religion. Cinco de Mayo is about Mexico, which is another country from the USA.

Are you speaking of Mexican immigrants or Mexican Illegals? Americans of Mexican decent haven't really had big celebrations of Cinco de Mayo. This is more of a recent thing since the Illegals have been arriving in such large numbers.

Are you serious when you can't see how men marrying men would effect the world? How about how it would effect the population?

[Segep]

Are you serious when you can't see how men marrying men would effect the world? How about how it would effect the population?

Oh please show me how it would affect population. I'm dying to know.

[KeepOurFreedoms]

Over the principle that the federal government could not control their use of slave labour. The Confederate states themselves were very clear on this. Just because it wasn't the sole reason doesn't make it any less valid. In an earlier post you said:



The only point here which does not have the continued enslavement of Blacks as a core principle is that they felt politically isolated. Sorry, but one out of three isn't enough to discount slavery. The American Civil War has been and will continue to be remembered as a war of ideology between people who kept slaves and people who didn't.

And of course it matters what they did with their rights. If they can't exercise those rights responsibly then they don't deserve them.

"The British, for example, in part fomented the American Civil War, also called the War Between the States, in an attempt to stop the growing industrial and financial power of the U.S., and in pursuit of the London government's vow to restore this continent to being mere puppet colonies of the British Monarchy, and we as subjects of the crown, not citizens of a Republic."

"If you think the American Civil War was fought over slavery you are not very well read.It was fought over land and southern resources which the north thought was controlled by to few men !! "

[9sublime]

Now then keepourfreedoms, someone hasnt thought through their position very carefully.

Christmas, Easter and St. Patricks day originate from other countries. Wether or not they are Christian is irrelevant, because a lot of the Mexicans celebrating Cinco de Mayo will be Christians as well.

As for gay marriage, what effect do you imagine? If you mean on population numbers, you think it will decrease? I hope you don't mean that because thats just plain ridiculous. Its not like if gay men cant get married they will go and have get a wife and kids instead.

Gay marriage will have no significant consequence on anything to be honest, because its not like gay men/women are going to live totally different lifestyles wether they are officially married or not. You might as well accept that you only want to stop gay marriage on a point of principle, just as gays want it on a point of principle too.

[KeepOurFreedoms]

Now then keepourfreedoms, someone hasnt thought through their position very carefully.

Christmas, Easter and St. Patricks day originate from other countries. Wether or not they are Christian is irrelevant, because a lot of the Mexicans celebrating Cinco de Mayo will be Christians as well.

As for gay marriage, what effect do you imagine? If you mean on population numbers, you think it will decrease? I hope you don't mean that because thats just plain ridiculous. Its not like if gay men cant get married they will go and have get a wife and kids instead.

Gay marriage will have no significant consequence on anything to be honest, because its not like gay men/women are going to live totally different lifestyles wether they are officially married or not. You might as well accept that you only want to stop gay marriage on a point of principle, just as gays want it on a point of principle too.

You're just too goofy.

[Coyote]

Oh please show me how it would affect population. I'm dying to know.

They'll be breeding like rabbits dontcha know, if you allow them to get married....:rolleyes:

[mustardayonnaise]

"The British, for example, in part fomented the American Civil War, also called the War Between the States, in an attempt to stop the growing industrial and financial power of the U.S., and in pursuit of the London government's vow to restore this continent to being mere puppet colonies of the British Monarchy, and we as subjects of the crown, not citizens of a Republic."

"If you think the American Civil War was fought over slavery you are not very well read.It was fought over land and southern resources which the north thought was controlled by to few men !! "

Britain's involvement was mainly due to the tariffs imposed by the Washington government on British imports, and was restricted to supporting in principle the Confederate states and not preventing trade. Britain and America were enemies at the time, and so any conflict which would weaken America would benefit Britain.

As to the second part of your assertion, which resources are we talking here? Cotton? Tobacco? Other slave-worked crops? And of course it was controlled by too few men. Three-fifths compromise, anyone?

[WileE]

You really don't know much about history, do you? The US was founded by white people, but America was settled first by the indigenous people upon whom we committed genocide so that we could steal their land.
How condescending and self-righteous we are!

[WileE]

Cinco de Mayo is a national holiday that is indicated on Mexican calendars; not on US calendars. I don't see why anyone would think that American banks, U.S. Postal Service offices, as well as federal and state offices should be closed on the Fifth of May.

[9sublime]

By the same logic WileE, don't celebrate St. Patrick's day either, the Irish were immigrants too.

[Segep]

WileE is getting excited over nothing. Cinco de Mayo isn't federally recognized in the U.S. anyway. Banks, post offices and everything else are open as usual.

[AlicornsPrayer]

Cinco de Mayo is not an American holiday tradition. America was founded by english people first and the english bought religion with em. Everyone of those quakers settlers bought a bible with em. Thats how we celebrated christmas and easter.So if an holiday is un american it shouldnt be celebrated here in america.

First of all, it wasn't the Quakers that came here...But the Puritans who were the first to settle in America.

And because of the Puritan influence, the majority of states in the 13 original colonies, banned those holidays. Outlawed because they were believed to be pagan holidays, not Christian holidays...And one could be severely punished if caught celebrating any of those holidasy. As was Thanksgiving. Only a few southern states (Virginia and S. Carolina) celebrated Thanksgiving/Christmas during early colonization of our country and didn't have laws specifically outlawing said celebrations. BUT, it wasn't an official federal recognized celebration until much later in US history for all the states of the US.

Easter, Thanksgiving, and Christmas didn't become a part of American culture until after the Civil war...As a means to give all US citizens a means to come together in celebration and heal a divided nation.

On a personal note, I don't see any problems with Cinco de Mayo being celebrated at all. It's a great time to try and get your buds to drink several shots of tequila so you can get a cool t-shirt, belt-buckle, or other 'Cinco de Mayo' gift at their expense. :D And then you get to poke fun at them the next couple of days while their hangovers are still present. :D

[pocketfullofshells]

I say no! Its an mexican independance day when Mexico declared its independence from Spain. It should be celebrated in their country not in america.A lot of illegals celebrate it here in america.I would like to see a law no promoting Cinco de Mayo in america.Any one celebrates this on May 5th in any american city or town faces a fine of $500 plus 5 days in jail.

Maybe next no Saint Patrick's Day?

[pocketfullofshells]

Cinco de Mayo is not an American holiday tradition. America was founded by english people first and the english bought religion with em. Everyone of those quakers settlers bought a bible with em. Thats how we celebrated christmas and easter.So if an holiday is un american it shouldnt be celebrated here in america.

Thats Unamerican

[pocketfullofshells]

Again I have to pose the question. Could you possibly be more ignorant? Cinco de Mayo has absolutely nothing to do with Mexican independence. And no one in Mexico celebrates it. It's merely an observance. America is the only place where they do celebrate it. Oh and by the way. While you are busy deciding what laws to make for everyone, consider this. We should out law the Confederate flag. It remains a symbol of racism and hatred while dumb rednecks defend it as a symbol of rebellion and the southern way of life. I think any American who displays the flag of racism should face a fine of $500 plus five days in jail. Makes at least as much sense as anything you have ever said.

Well to be fair ...you forgot its the Flag of those who fought our own government ...or as some call it..>Treason

[heyjude]

Treason is right. And it ought to be treason to fly or display it. I have never understood why southerners revere a bunch of losers.

[Mare Tranquillity]

I say no! Its an mexican independance day when Mexico declared its independence from Spain. It should be celebrated in their country not in america.A lot of illegals celebrate it here in america.I would like to see a law no promoting Cinco de Mayo in america.Any one celebrates this on May 5th in any american city or town faces a fine of $500 plus 5 days in jail.

I thought the whole idea of America was freedom, wasn't it? Personally I never pass up a chance to celebrate--God knows there are few enough of them. I say we start to celebrate EVERYBODY'S independence days! More freedom, more celebrations! And less of the damn government telling us what we can and can't celebrate.

[Mare Tranquillity]

Don't celebrate Christmas, Jesus wasn't born in America.

And besides that He was a commie who advocated giving all your money to poor people. It's a good thing that nobody really pays any attention to the stuff He said because it would just get in the way of our endless quest for more money.

Easter is another foreign commie holiday too, isn't it, Steve? What about Valentine's Day, didn't the French invent that? At least we know those little naked kids flying around were invented by the Italians so we better not celebrate that either. SAINT PATRICK'S DAY, talk about un-American!

[dahermit]

First of all, it wasn't the Quakers that came here...But the Puritans who were the first to settle in America.
:D
It is my understanding that the first colonies were economic ventures and that the Puritans came later. Also, there is a better case to be made that America was founded more upon screwing the indigenous people out of their land that the concept of religious freedom.

[thatgurl07]

I thought the whole idea of America was freedom, wasn't it? Personally I never pass up a chance to celebrate--God knows there are few enough of them. I say we start to celebrate EVERYBODY'S independence days! More freedom, more celebrations! And less of the damn government telling us what we can and can't celebrate.


I think it quite ignorant for someone to say that! Christmas wasn't an "American" holiday until the English colonist made it so. For years after the Revolutionary War American didn't celebrate Christmas. The only truly "American" holidays are Thanksgiving and Idependence Day. We still celebrate St. Patrick's Day but no one says anything because it primarly celebrated by white people. The people who celebrate Cinco de Mayo are Mexican or Mexican American. The Mexican part didn't just fall away once them or their ancestors enter this country. People should be proud of where they came from. I don't see anything wrong with that.

[BigRob]

I think it quite ignorant for someone to say that! Christmas wasn't an "American" holiday until the English colonist made it so. For years after the Revolutionary War American didn't celebrate Christmas. The only truly "American" holidays are Thanksgiving and Idependence Day. We still celebrate St. Patrick's Day but no one says anything because it primarly celebrated by white people. The people who celebrate Cinco de Mayo are Mexican or Mexican American. The Mexican part didn't just fall away once them or their ancestors enter this country. People should be proud of where they came from. I don't see anything wrong with that.

There is nothing wrong with celebrating Cinco de Mayo, it just should not be a federal holiday.

[NO Obamanation]

Why not, its a great day to eat tacos and drink to much beer. I would be against making it a national holday or paid holiday but its a fun party. St. Patricks day is fun too, another great day to have tooooo many beers

[r0beph]

There is nothing wrong with celebrating Cinco de Mayo, it just should not be a federal holiday.

uhm, its not a federal holiday...the following are federal holidays in the US.

Tuesday, January 1 New Year’s Day
Monday, January 21 Birthday of Martin Luther King, Jr.
Monday, February 18 Washington’s Birthday
Monday, May 26 Memorial Day
Friday, July 4 Independence Day
Monday, September 1 Labor Day
Monday, October 13 Columbus Day
Tuesday, November 11 Veterans Day
Thursday, November 27 Thanksgiving Day
Thursday, December 25 Christmas Day

[BigRob]

uhm, its not a federal holiday...the following are federal holidays in the US.

Tuesday, January 1 New Year’s Day
Monday, January 21 Birthday of Martin Luther King, Jr.
Monday, February 18 Washington’s Birthday
Monday, May 26 Memorial Day
Friday, July 4 Independence Day
Monday, September 1 Labor Day
Monday, October 13 Columbus Day
Tuesday, November 11 Veterans Day
Thursday, November 27 Thanksgiving Day
Thursday, December 25 Christmas Day

Thank you Dr. Obvious. I was simply stating it should never be a federal holiday.

[Mr.Dysfunctional]

Again I have to pose the question. Could you possibly be more ignorant? Cinco de Mayo has absolutely nothing to do with Mexican independence. And no one in Mexico celebrates it. It's merely an observance. America is the only place where they do celebrate it. Oh and by the way. While you are busy deciding what laws to make for everyone, consider this. We should out law the Confederate flag. It remains a symbol of racism and hatred while dumb rednecks defend it as a symbol of rebellion and the southern way of life. I think any American who displays the flag of racism should face a fine of $500 plus five days in jail. Makes at least as much sense as anything you have ever said.


Aight lets not have to drag a mod in here please people... It is however pretty obvious for someone living in states near mexico that the problem isn't as much the celebrating of Cinco De mayo as it is Illegal immigration. The entire dislike Big rob has probably stems from the fact that our country is being urt by illegals within the country. Not only is it an economical problem but creates an upheavel in cultural bases in that given area.

Any driving thru a crappy neighbor in dallas or Ft. Worth gets the prespective instantly.. Everything is written in spanish .. shops , markets , advertizing and even now Public faclities. (( FYI .. this is not English AND Spanish .. its ONLY spanish...))While change is not a bad thing considering our need for lower paid workers.. the fact that it is happening at such an extreme rate is the problem.. Americans are litterally being forced out of certain neighborhoods because of this type of grand social change taking place.. and without diviersification and proper absorbing of immigrants.. we are losing this land to people who don't hold the values of typical americans.

That being said.. you can look at any number of communites in new mexico and texas.. entire neighborhoods are run down in disarray.. being reduced to nearly third world standards because of non-exsitant care for property and renivations done that are not being inspected by city code enforcers.

While at the moment these neighborhoods are the exception to the rule.. that fact is quickly losing ground as all of our schools , public facilities and neighborhoods become ore and more influenced by the illigeals and those refusing to acclamate themselves to U.S. law and culture.

On a personal note.. I manage a warehouse for a company in texas.. we are having large racks installed throughtout it and the crew that came to do the work speaks no english... Not only is their problems on verifying who is walking in my warehouse.. but because of the lack of ablitiy to communicate directly the plans i want.. they are now 3 days behind schuedule and my entire warehouse is in disarray. Not to mention the fact they are littering during their bar-b-ques in my parking lot (( for real... can;t they bring lunch to work already cooked? )) but how do you tell someone to clean up their mess when no one wants to speak the lanaguage of commerce?

It's a sad state of affairs ... and unfortunally the fustration of those living in it have no way to vent then pick on the social symbols associated with this invasion.

Another perfect example is flying the mexican flag while protesting ... Considering that they are pushing for illegals to become citizens and have the laws loosened.. shouldn;t they wave the american flag? Its funny that they wave the flag of the country they are running away from.. as if somehow it repsents a strength when it is in fact their weakness

[r0beph]

Cinco de Mayo is not Mexican Independance (september 16th) it is the day of the conclusion of a decisive victory over french forces in Puebla (where the holiday is celebrated in mexico, it is not a federal holiday there, just a regional observance)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Puebla

[Libsmasher]

It commemorates a minor battle, and is generally not celebrated in mexico.

[bododie]

I think any American who displays the flag of racism should face a fine of $500 plus five days in jail. Makes at least as much sense as anything you have ever said. What should happen to Mexicans in America who stomp on a burning American flag while waving the Mexican one? is that to be considered less racist and freedom of speech?