US First Muslim Representative

[qalam]

With a few short words, Rep. Keith Ellison had just stunned a joint session of Congress.

Last March, Jordan's King Abdullah II had concluded his address in the House chambers with the traditional Arabic salutation, "as-salaam 'aleikum," which means, "Peace be unto you."

Ellison, a freshman Democrat from Minnesota and the first Muslim in Congress, instinctively replied, "wa 'aleikum as-salaam" -- "And to you be peace."


http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0607/4555.html


An interesting piece about a controversial rep.

[OPGhostdog]

With a few short words, Rep. Keith Ellison had just stunned a joint session of Congress.

Last March, Jordan's King Abdullah II had concluded his address in the House chambers with the traditional Arabic salutation, "as-salaam 'aleikum," which means, "Peace be unto you."
Ellison, a freshman Democrat from Minnesota and the first Muslim in Congress, instinctively replied, "wa 'aleikum as-salaam" -- "And to you be peace."
An interesting piece about a controversial rep.


Do you have a problem with Ellison because he's a muslim
in Congress? Maybe instead of criticizing learn what
Assalaam Alakium means. There is two meanings for the
saying.

After reviewing your post you seem to have a hang up about
how Muslims open and close their conversations. Look at the
opening and closing of meetings for other religious groups,
and yet you are dwelling on one group.

What's your point?

[vyo476]

Do you have a problem with Ellison because he's a muslim
in Congress? Maybe instead of criticizing learn what
Assalaam Alakium means. There is two meanings for the
saying.

After reviewing your post you seem to have a hang up about
how Muslims open and close their conversations. Look at the
opening and closing of meetings for other religious groups,
and yet you are dwelling on one group.

What's your point?

I don't think he meant anything negative by it. He was just bringing it up because it's interesting.

[steveox]

Now you see why uneducated voters are stupid in america. Its because they allow welfare people to vote. This is exactly why we gotta pay for stupid kinds of sales taxes in local communities.If i was prersident id introduce a bill to change voting laws.Heres how i would clean up this mess.

1.You must be 21 years old in order to vote.
2.You must have ether a high school diploma or must be employed.
3.You cannot be an illegal alien and must be an legal US Citizen.

Now if we had these 3 requirements we wouldnt be paying for stupid taxes and having stupid representives in office. Now i truly belive Nikolai Volkoff was right when he called USA stands for is this

USELESS
STUBORN
AMERICANS

[drippinhun]

Now if we had these 3 requirements we wouldnt be paying for stupid taxes and having stupid representives in office

... or be driving down paved roads that rain drains off or having EMTs resuscitate you when you have an accident or have an organized power grid issuring quality electrical delivery or even a modicum of quality of life one finds in advanced industrialized nations. Yes, let me keep my money and lets pattern our infrastructure and nation's wealth on low taxed places like Guatemala or maybe Cambodia.

[qalam]

Do you have a problem with Ellison because he's a muslim
in Congress? Maybe instead of criticizing learn what
Assalaam Alakium means. There is two meanings for the
saying.

After reviewing your post you seem to have a hang up about
how Muslims open and close their conversations. Look at the
opening and closing of meetings for other religious groups,
and yet you are dwelling on one group.

What's your point?


I have NO prob with Ellison! Yoiu need to reread! The only point I was trying to make was to open a discussion, if that is impossible then we can move on. Try reading I never said I have prob. that is in your little mind.

[qalam]

I don't think he meant anything negative by it. He was just bringing it up because it's interesting.

Thanx at least you can read.

[OPGhostdog]

I have NO prob with Ellison! Yoiu need to reread! The only point I was trying to make was to open a discussion, if that is impossible then we can move on. Try reading I never said I have prob. that is in your little mind.

I am well qualified to understand what you posted.
Thereforth (including myself) when posting explain
statements a little more clear.

I am the first to admit that I have problems with
people who try to attack my faith and belief. and
I am very much on the defensive side when it
comes to defending non-senses against my people
of faith.

I recall when Ellison first announced that he was
running for congress. The negative posts that
sprung up on different forums against Ellison, and
its still happening.

So your reactions to my reply showed me your point,
and that's why I replied like I did to you.
Again, this is something that I have always said on
any forum that I sign onto. Think before you type a
post, and then post exactly what you are thinking.

This prevents a lots of arguing and mis-understanding.

Now in closing to show YOU how humble I am, and have
acceptances. If you felt that I was wrong for expressing
my concerns, and it plucked your feathers. I do apologize.

But I will always come to the defense of a fellow Brother
or Sister Muslim. Knowing how many Americans feel about
Muslims since 9-11.

[USMC the Almighty]

Knowing how many Americans feel about
Muslims since 9-11.

So you at least understand why many Americans are suspicious of Muslims?

[Coyote]

So you at least understand why many Americans are suspicious of Muslims?

This reminds me of the attitudes that put Americans of Japanese descent into internment camps. It's shameful.

The more things change...the more they stay the same I guess:rolleyes:

[USMC the Almighty]

This reminds me of the attitudes that put Americans of Japanese descent into internment camps. It's shameful.

The more things change...the more they stay the same I guess:rolleyes:

Well that's a hell of a stretch and a shameful tactic aimed at ending the debate without any kind of argument.

Nowhere did I hint that prejudice against Muslims is justified, but it only makes sense that people would be more suspicious of Muslim-looking people -- they're the ones who pose the biggest threat to this country. For instance, when you get on a plane do you feel a bit more nervous when you see a group of 25 year old Muslim males or when you see a group of 75 year old white, American women?

[Coyote]

Well that's a hell of a stretch and a shameful tactic aimed at ending the debate without any kind of argument.

Nowhere did I hint that prejudice against Muslims is justified, but it only makes sense that people would be more suspicious of Muslim-looking people -- they're the ones who pose the biggest threat to this country. For instance, when you get on a plane do you feel a bit more nervous when you see a group of 25 year old Muslim males or when you see a group of 75 year old white, American women?

It wasn't aimed at you specifically but think about it.

Isn't this very remeniscent of the attitudes then? The suspicion? People forgetting that these folks are AMERICAN's first - just like the Japanese Americans?

They are AMERICANS.

I guess it's just human nature, and that saddens me.:(

[USMC the Almighty]

It wasn't aimed at you specifically but think about it.

Isn't this very remeniscent of the attitudes then? The suspicion? People forgetting that these folks are AMERICAN's first - just like the Japanese Americans?

They are AMERICANS.

I guess it's just human nature, and that saddens me.:(

Fair enough. One important thing though that rarely gets mentioned is that the Japanese (and Koreans) enlisted in the military in huge numbers during that time as a way to prove their patriotism. You don't see Muslims doing that. The Muslims don't make any attempts at assimilating into American culture so it's hard for me to see them as "Americans first".

[Bunz]

First off, I dont see a big deal about the Gentleman from Minnesota saying what he said. I remember on a different website I posted on, there was a big controversy of him swearing in using the Koran, which I also dont think is a big deal. I think the best deal for that would be for them all to swear on the US constitution because that should be the only written document that truely matters in congress.

Also the notion that we need to be afraid of Muslims or suspicious of them is totally bogus. The average Muslim, who is noticable through either thier clothing or physical appearance to the average American usually isnt even a Muslim but instead are often Sikhs. I will also point out that the average American Muslim, is generally much more afraid of the white establishment than visa versa. The Muslim and Arab communities are very well aware that they are often being monitored in thier daily lives, and if they act suspicious in anyway, especially at an airport that they will be hauled off a plane in handcuffs to face charges or even deportation.

Also Steveox, once again you only seem to post hair-brained ideas that are convenient for you at the time. All American citizens over the age of 18 have the right to vote, unless they are a convicted felon. Your suggestion of limiting that right is not much different from suggesting we take away the right to free speech. Which would mean that your idiotic rambling nonsense that you post would be limited or stripped as well. I would encourage you to read, the 15th, the 24th amendment, the 26th Amendment, which already cover and make illegal pretty much all the things that you proposed in your little sceme to limit voting rights. Never forget that hundreds of thousands of Americans have fought and died for your right to post whatever you want on here, as well as to guarantee than all Americans have a say in thier government, and your idea does nothing but diminish the rights that so many have killed and died for.

[Coyote]

[QUOTE=USMC the Almighty;14659]Fair enough. One important thing though that rarely gets mentioned is that the Japanese (and Koreans) enlisted in the military in huge numbers during that time as a way to prove their patriotism. [/INDENT]


Actually, American muslims are quite well assimilated.

From Wikipedia:
According to a 2004 telephone survey of a sample of 1846 Muslims conducted by Zogby the respondents were more educated and affluent than the national average, with 59% of them holding at least an undergraduate college degree. Citing the Zogby survey, a 2005 Wall Street Journal editorial, by Bret Stephens and Joseph Rago expressed the tendency of American Muslims to report employment in professional fields, with one in three having an income over $75,000 a year. [33] The editorial also characterized American Muslims as "role models both as Americans and as Muslims".

and in a more recent poll, which was discussed on another thread, the StarTribune reported the following:

A major poll of American Muslims by one of the most respected pollsters in the country reveals substantial differences between American and European Muslims. The American Muslims by a huge margin reject Islamic extremism. They are educated, affluent, happy and largely assimilated.

In addition, the number of muslims in the military is increasing however they do face obstacles and attitudes against them http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2007/2/7/154749.shtml

I'm afraid I still very much see this backlash against muslim Americans in much the same light as that towards the Japanese Americans :o

They are Americans.

[USMC the Almighty]

Also the notion that we need to be afraid of Muslims or suspicious of them is totally bogus.

I disagree. Look at the people who, according to our recent history, are most likely to attack this country. It's Muslims. So it's only natural that you would be most suspicious of them.

For example, have you seen the names of the people caught in the UK last summer mere days away from carrying out another attack using jetliners:

Umir Hussain, 24
Muhammed Usman Saddique, 24
Waheed Zaman, 22
Assan Abdullah Khan, 22
Waseem Kayani, 28
Waheed Arafat Khan, 24
Cossor Ali, 24
Tayib Rauf, 21
Ibrahim Savant, 26
Osman Adam Khatib, 20
Shamin Mohammed Uddin, 36
Amin Asmin Tariq, 23
Shazad Khuram Ali, 27
Tanvir Hussain, 24
Umar Islam, 28
Assad Sarwar, 25
Abdullah Ali, 26
Abdul Muneem Patel, 17
Nabeel Hussain, 21

Hmmm...no pattern to justify profiling.

[USMC the Almighty]

Actually, American muslims are quite well assimilated.

From Wikipedia:
According to a 2004 telephone survey of a sample of 1846 Muslims conducted by Zogby the respondents were more educated and affluent than the national average, with 59% of them holding at least an undergraduate college degree. Citing the Zogby survey, a 2005 Wall Street Journal editorial, by Bret Stephens and Joseph Rago expressed the tendency of American Muslims to report employment in professional fields, with one in three having an income over $75,000 a year. [33] The editorial also characterized American Muslims as "role models both as Americans and as Muslims".

What does this prove? So they go to college and make a lot of money. That says nothing of their feelings regarding this country.


and in a more recent poll, which was discussed on another thread, the StarTribune reported the following:

A major poll of American Muslims by one of the most respected pollsters in the country reveals substantial differences between American and European Muslims. The American Muslims by a huge margin reject Islamic extremism. They are educated, affluent, happy and largely assimilated.

I'm glad that they reject terrorism but again, this doesn't say anything about their loyalty to the U.S.

[Coyote]

What does this prove? So they go to college and make a lot of money. That says nothing of their feelings regarding this country.



I'm glad that they reject terrorism but again, this doesn't say anything about their loyalty to the U.S.

So you demand a loyalty test? Because they're muslim? Do Christians need a loyalty test?

Among the polls findings:

# Overall, Muslim Americans have a generally positive view of the larger society. Most say their communities are excellent or good places to live.

# A large majority of Muslim Americans believe that hard work pays off in this society. Fully 71% agree that most people who want to get ahead in the U.S. can make it if they are willing to work hard.

# The survey shows that although many Muslims are relative newcomers to the U.S., they are highly assimilated into American society. On balance, they believe that Muslims coming to the U.S. should try and adopt American customs, rather than trying to remain distinct from the larger society. And by nearly two-to-one (63%-32%) Muslim Americans do not see a conflict between being a devout Muslim and living in a modern society.

I believe that indicates they are Americans first, particularly in light of the following:

A majority of Muslim Americans (53%) say it has become more difficult to be a Muslim in the U.S. since the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks. Most also believe that the government "singles out" Muslims for increased surveillance and monitoring.

[USMC the Almighty]

I can't argue against your stats, but from my personal experience I don't see Muslims assimilating at the rate the poll claims.

[Sgt Schultz]

Fair enough. One important thing though that rarely gets mentioned is that the Japanese (and Koreans) enlisted in the military in huge numbers during that time as a way to prove their patriotism. You don't see Muslims doing that. The Muslims don't make any attempts at assimilating into American culture so it's hard for me to see them as "Americans first".

When I look at someone I can tell what their ancestry is, or pretty close. But when it comes to religion I can't. The family of Chinese ancestry who lives next to me is what religion by looking at them? Or the guy of Lebanese ancestry down the road? Religion is a personal choice, not one of genetics.

[USMC the Almighty]

When I look at someone I can tell what their ancestry is, or pretty close. But when it comes to religion I can't. The family of Chinese ancestry who lives next to me is what religion by looking at them? Or the guy of Lebanese ancestry down the road? Religion is a personal choice, not one of genetics.

Well I know beyond a shadow of doubt that my neighbor is Jewish and I've never seen her go to the Synagogue.

Humor aside, obviously you can't always discern a specific given individual's religion by their appearance. But there are certainly patterns between what type of people join what religions. The average Muslim fits a general pattern and if you deny this then you are politically correct to the point of blindness.

[Sgt Schultz]

Well I know beyond a shadow of doubt that my neighbor is Jewish and I've never seen her go to the Synagogue.

Humor aside, obviously you can't always discern a specific given individual's religion by their appearance. But there are certainly patterns between what type of people join what religions. The average Muslim fits a general pattern and if you deny this then you are politically correct to the point of blindness.

None of the Muslim's that I know are terrorists, or are inclined to be terrorists. All of them are on active duty or are retired military for that matter. I no more question their loyalty to this country than I do anyone else.

[USMC the Almighty]

I personally don't know any Muslim terrorists either, but the historical data does indicate that Muslim males between the ages of 18 and 35 are the most likely people to launch an attack on the United States.

[SW85]

Ellison is a very suspicious character, at best. He has still not answered for his earlier membership in radical Islamic organizations (he was a member of the Nation of Islam, wasn't he?) and he has given open and unabashed support to unindicted terrorist co-conspirator CAIR.

[Coyote]

Ellison is a very suspicious character, at best. He has still not answered for his earlier membership in radical Islamic organizations (he was a member of the Nation of Islam, wasn't he?) and he has given open and unabashed support to unindicted terrorist co-conspirator CAIR.

That's silly. CAIR is no more a terrorist group then APAC or the Anti-Defamation league.

[USMC the Almighty]

CAIR is no more a terrorist group then APAC or the Anti-Defamation league.

If it walks and quacks like a duck...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_Council_on_American-Islamic_Relations#CAIR.27s_alleged_support_of_terr orist_organizations

[Coyote]

If it walks and quacks like a duck...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_Council_on_American-Islamic_Relations#CAIR.27s_alleged_support_of_terr orist_organizations



* 1 CAIR's alleged support of terrorist organizations

[USMC the Almighty]

You didn't read the section did you?

[vyo476]

Wait, are you telling me that there's a man in Congress with a potentially dirty background?

Now what are the chances of that...?

[Bunz]

I disagree. Look at the people who, according to our recent history, are most likely to attack this country. It's Muslims. So it's only natural that you would be most suspicious of them.

For example, have you seen the names of the people caught in the UK last summer mere days away from carrying out another attack using jetliners:


Hmmm...no pattern to justify profiling.

While I dont disagree that there have been many Muslims terrorists, my point in the whole thing was to point out that Muslims, just being Muslims we should not be suspicious of them having a bomb strapped to themselves all the time.
Now I will point out, that there have been only two major attacks my Muslims in the US, in the last 27 years. The original WTC bombing, and the 9/11 attacks. In the meantime, Americans, presumably Christian or at least non muslims in the same time period, were responsible for Oklahoma city, the Unabomber, Eric Rudolph, DC Sniper, along with several school shootings, and serial killers, which I am going to lump into terrorist acts.
My point on this issue is that a very small minority of Muslim Americans are terrorists(I have yet to see a name of a Muslim-American citizen commit a terrorist act) and there are plenty of other American citizens who carry out terrorist attacks. This doesnt justify any of them as I find them all deplorable, but it is not quite fair for us to lump them into one group, as is the same as all hispanics being illegal immigrants, blacks being gangmembers etc. The KKK is probably the worst single terrorist groups in American history.

[SW85]

I don't see that it matters that CAIR has not yet been indicted on anything, although many of its members have. The connection itself is enough to raise questions about the quality of Ellison's character. (I am, for the record, equally suspicious of other Democrats who run around with these dangerous lunatics, so don't dare accuse me of religious bigotry). We all rightly condemned Republicans for cavorting around with Jack Abramoff back when he was only under investigation.

[USMC the Almighty]

While I dont disagree that there have been many Muslims terrorists, my point in the whole thing was to point out that Muslims, just being Muslims we should not be suspicious of them having a bomb strapped to themselves all the time.

We should listen to sensible Muslims like Abdel Rahman al-Rashed, general manager of the al-Arabiya news channel, who wrote in the Arab News two years ago what our own officials struggle to say:

"It is a certain fact that not all Muslims are terrorists, but it is equally certain, and exceptionally painful, that almost all terrorists are Muslims. ... We cannot clear our names unless we own up to the shameful fact that terrorism has become an Islamic enterprise; an almost exclusive monopoly, implemented by Muslim men.''

Now I will point out, that there have been only two major attacks my Muslims in the US, in the last 27 years. The original WTC bombing, and the 9/11 attacks.

This is if you don't count any of the attacks on our military bases or embassies overseas.

In November 1995, five Americans were killed and 30 wounded by a car bomb in Saudi Arabia set by Muslim extremists.

In June 1996, a U.S. Air Force housing complex in Saudi Arabia was bombed by Muslim extremists.

On Aug. 7, 1998, U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed by Muslim extremists.

In October 2000, our warship, the USS Cole, was attacked by Muslim extremists.

In the meantime, Americans, presumably Christian or at least non muslims in the same time period, were responsible for Oklahoma city, the Unabomber, Eric Rudolph, DC Sniper, along with several school shootings, and serial killers, which I am going to lump into terrorist acts.

This is a terrible argument. You are lumping criminal incidents with international, religion-driven terrorism...just like Clinton. Obviously that philosophy didn't work. You can't treat terrorism as a domestic crime issue -- it is a part of a larger national security struggle that extends all over the globe.

The KKK is probably the worst single terrorist groups in American history.

By what measure? Certainly not deaths.

[Sgt Schultz]

The bombing in Oklahoma City by Timothy McVeigh was idealogically driven. He killed 186 people and wounded more than 500. Eric Rudolph was driven by his hatred of abortion and gays. He killed 3 people and wounded 150 in his bombings. Those are works of terror, not of a common criminal.

Terrorism will never be eliminated as it is a tactic. That isn't to say we shouldn't try to stop those who would use it. Quite the contrary but a military response is not the only answer. It will require a combination of police work, dialogue, politics, economics, diplomacy, and military force where necessary. If we focus only on one religion or one group of people we are setting ourselves up for more failure.

[USMC the Almighty]

The bombing in Oklahoma City by Timothy McVeigh was idealogically driven. He killed 186 people and wounded more than 500. Eric Rudolph was driven by his hatred of abortion and gays. He killed 3 people and wounded 150 in his bombings. Those are works of terror, not of a common criminal.

Okay, fine. This week alone, there have been 66 jihad attacks driven by Islam have injured 343 and claimed the lives of 345.

Terrorism will never be eliminated as it is a tactic.

True, but the ideology of radical Islam can be defeated just like the ideologies of Nazism and Fascism.