Religion of Peace At It Again

[Coyote]

I see that the lights are on, but still no one is home.

Wheel still turning but hamster beyond dead, decomposition advanced.

[Coyote]

Revealing that you judge the quoting of Islamic scripture and the quoting of Muslims interpretation of those scriptures to be "Demonizing" the faith. A demonstration of what I mean by the plain and ordinary meaning of the words within the scripture that YOU judged to be demonic all by yourself. Kind of hard not to do, what with al the stuff about "fight", "Kill", "slay" and "smite the necks" of the unbelievers.

Yet you ignore the same sort of "plain and ordinary meaning of the words" within the bible.


Umh...there is a word for that. Hypocrite.

[jb_1430]

Why don't you actually read what I wrote? I did not say that the Saudi malcontents were unhappy with Islamic rule did I?



Yes. And look at where they are coming from. A country that is a hereditary dictorship with some of the most repressive religious laws

AS IF that was somehow motivating their behavior, WHEN, PRECISELY the opposite is the case because the Fundamentaslist would adopt EVEN MORE
"repressive religious laws"

[Coyote]

AS IF that was somehow motivating their behavior, WHEN, PRECISELY the opposite is the case because the Fundamentaslist would adopt EVEN MORE
"repressive religious laws"


I'm sure you know exactly what is motivating their behavior. Keep working on that bandaid philosophy:cool:

[jb_1430]

I will take you on any day and anytime. You with your internet
research, and me with my Bible & Quran.

Welll, what ya been waiting for? You havent yet addressed any of the quotes Ive provided from the Koran and haddiths, not a one of the quotes from your fellow Muslims. In fact youve not addressed ANYTHING relevent to the topic of the thread and can seem to only be able to discuss your own personal feelings about me and your religion. Get on with it! Shiite or get off the pot.

[jb_1430]

I'm sure you know exactly what is motivating their behavior. Keep working on that bandaid philosophy:cool:

I take them at their word. You on the other hand, living in a world where nothing is as it seems, simply reject their stated reality and replace it with one of your own. Some kind of coping mechanism I guess.

[Coyote]

I take them at their word. You on the other hand, living in a world where nothing is as it seems, simply reject their stated reality and replace it with one of your own. Some kind of coping mechanism I guess.

Nope, I'm simply trying to follow your train of illogic. Here I am innocently taking the Bible at it's word and you tell me - NO, I can't do that. So I switch gears, consider the Quran and consider your words and don't take it at it's word and - OOPS - buzzzzzzz - nope, can't do that either. It MUST be taken at it's word.

No wonder religion is so confusing.:eek:

[jb_1430]

Yet you ignore the same sort of "plain and ordinary meaning of the words" within the bible.
Umh...there is a word for that. Hypocrite.

What bull shiite. I directly addressed them. Provided the context that you ignore, and yet, still you havent grasped the distinction between Jesus telling his followers to bring those who refuse to follow him and slay them, and some King in a parable saying the same. Still havent grasped the distinction between a prophecy that says Jesus is going to destroy the unbelievers, and a commandment from Allah telling the believers to destroy the unbelievers. One is a potential problem if Jesus comes back, the other is a problem as long as there are believers of allah around to carry out that commandment.

[jb_1430]

Nope, I'm simply trying to follow your train of illogic. Here I am innocently taking the Bible at it's word and you tell me - NO, I can't do that.

Never said any such thing. Another, in a long line of pointless strawman arguements in a pathetic attempt to create an illusion that you have an actual arguement. At least your consistant.

[Coyote]

Never said any such thing. Another, in a long line of pointless strawman arguements in a pathetic attempt to create an illusion that you have an actual arguement. At least your consistant.

Ok, then I should take all those biblical extortions of violence at their word. That makes it a little easier.

[Coyote]

What bull shiite. I directly addressed them. Provided the context that you ignore, and yet, still you havent grasped the distinction between Jesus telling his followers to bring those who refuse to follow him and slay them, and some King in a parable saying the same. Still havent grasped the distinction between a prophecy that says Jesus is going to destroy the unbelievers, and a commandment from Allah telling the believers to destroy the unbelievers. One is a potential problem if Jesus comes back, the other is a problem as long as there are believers of allah around to carry out that commandment.

There is no distinction if we are only going by the literal wording of the texts and that is what you are doing with the Quran.

[OPGhostdog]

Welll, what ya been waiting for? You havent yet addressed any of the quotes Ive provided from the Koran and haddiths, not a one of the quotes from your fellow Muslims. In fact youve not addressed ANYTHING relevent to the topic of the thread and can seem to only be able to discuss your own personal feelings about me and your religion. Get on with it! Shiite or get off the pot.

Why should I address isues that I find not worthy to discuss?
None of that crap you are talking about is worth my time being
wasted, and I suggest that what you need to do is Shut the
f*** up, and move on to something else.

HELL NO I am not address anything concerning the topic, due
to the fact that I am checking you and your paragenda crap.
So I am making you the topic or subject whichever one you
want to be called. You damn right I am expressing my personal
feelings, and isn't that what you are doing? You are pissing me
off with your non-educated bs, and you are reversing the script
like everyone else is flipping but you.

In closing, and this will be all I have to post to your bull****.
You will NEVER reach the educational level I am at when it
comes to learning and know my religion. So before the moderators
ban me for checking you. While you are the one who is keeping
the mess going. I am going to chill a minute, but when I notice
that you are posting crap again....I am going to speak out.

[jb_1430]

Ok, then I should take all those biblical extortions of violence at their word. That makes it a little easier.


In Luke 19:22-27, Jesus orders killed anyone who refuses to be ruled by him.


Anyone who retains any sembalance of sanity or honesty, can read the parable of 10 Minas below (as opposed to the last verse in isolation) and see that you are pretty much full of shiite. And quite aptly demonstrating my point for me. A complete misrepresentaion and purposeful distortion of the literal word gets you justification for violence from the bible. I simply copy and paste the words from the koran and Im accused of demonizing the Koran.


The Parable of the Ten Minas
11While they were listening to this, he went on to tell them a parable, because he was near Jerusalem and the people thought that the kingdom of God was going to appear at once. 12He said: "A man of noble birth went to a distant country to have himself appointed king and then to return. 13So he called ten of his servants and gave them ten minas.[a]'Put this money to work,' he said, 'until I come back.' 14"But his subjects hated him and sent a delegation after him to say, 'We don't want this man to be our king.'

15"He was made king, however, and returned home. Then he sent for the servants to whom he had given the money, in order to find out what they had gained with it.

16"The first one came and said, 'Sir, your mina has earned ten more.'

17" 'Well done, my good servant!' his master replied. 'Because you have been trustworthy in a very small matter, take charge of ten cities.'

18"The second came and said, 'Sir, your mina has earned five more.'

19"His master answered, 'You take charge of five cities.'

20"Then another servant came and said, 'Sir, here is your mina; I have kept it laid away in a piece of cloth. 21I was afraid of you, because you are a hard man. You take out what you did not put in and reap what you did not sow.'

22"His master replied, 'I will judge you by your own words, you wicked servant! You knew, did you, that I am a hard man, taking out what I did not put in, and reaping what I did not sow? 23Why then didn't you put my money on deposit, so that when I came back, I could have collected it with interest?'

24"Then he said to those standing by, 'Take his mina away from him and give it to the one who has ten minas.'

25" 'Sir,' they said, 'he already has ten!'

26"He replied, 'I tell you that to everyone who has, more will be given, but as for the one who has nothing, even what he has will be taken away. 27But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me."
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=luke%2019&version=31

[jb_1430]

I will take you on any day and anytime. You with your internet research, and me with my Bible & Quran.

Why should I address isues that I find not worthy to discuss?


LOLOLOLOL! Sooo predictable.

[jb_1430]

In closing, and this will be all I have to post to your bull****.
...I am going to chill a minute, but when I notice
that you are posting crap again....I am going to speak out.

Posted in the hope that you judge it to be crap.



We must destroy those who follow democracy, and we must take their followers as enemies - hate them and wage a great Jihad against them.
....
If you come to understand this, you should know that the greatest step of adherence to this firmest handhold and the highest step of disbelief in this man-made deity is the Climax of Islam. By this I mean 'The Jihad'. The Jihad against the deity, his followers, and helpers, to try to damage this man-made
system, and to try to get the people to turn away from worshipping it and return to the worship of Allah alone.
...
“We are through with you and those you worship other than Allah. We reject you. Enmity and hate have come between you and us for ever, unless you believe in Allah, the One”.
...
So a human will not be doing his duty or obligation, unless he hates them, and takes them as enemies. Consider how Allah mentioned their disapproval of the polytheist people, before the disapproval of what they
worshipped, because the first is more important than the second.
...
Allah said "Gather all the wicked together and
their Comrades, and those they had worshipped". 21 Comrades means: everyone who is like them, their helpers and supporters in falsehood. Then Allah said: "So, they will become partners in punishment. That is how we deal with sinners. They were those who, when it was said to them “there is no god but Allah” behaved with insolence."
http://www.islamicthinkers.com/index/files/books/aqeedah/Democracy%20-%20%20A%20Religion.pdf

[saggyjones]

USMC, please don't take the actions of a minority of a group and use them to represent the whole group. It's called stereotyping, and it's wrong. I don't mean politically incorrect, I mean it's not accurate. I agree that most terrorists are Muslims, but most Muslims aren't terrorists. Instead of criticizing and entire religion based on the actions of a minority within it, why don't you criticize the minority itself? It might show a little more class, and you wouldn't look like such a jackass, if you even care about that.

[USMC the Almighty]

It might show a little more class, and you wouldn't look like such a jackass, if you even care about that.

I am way beyond caring who I offend. I'm going to call it as I see it and I don't give a damn if I am not following the liberal PC censorship.

The fact of the matter is that Muslims comprise the biggest threat to this country.

[jb_1430]

USMC, please don't take the actions of a minority of a group and use them to represent the whole group. It's called stereotyping, and it's wrong. I don't mean politically incorrect, .

You may not mean it but thats exactly what it is. This semming ban on criticism of the Islamic "religion" because it might be viewed or percieved as an attack on all Muslims. So just sweep it under the rug. Pretend it doesnt exist because we wouldnt want to offend anyone. Pathetic.

[jb_1430]

There is no distinction if we are only going by the literal wording of the texts and that is what you are doing with the Quran.

Nonsense. The distinction is while you want to use the literal meaning of a select few of the words, and completely disregard the plain and ordinary meaning of the words that immediately preceed them, I refer to the meaning of all the words.

[Coyote]

Nonsense. The distinction is while you want to use the literal meaning of a select few of the words, and completely disregard the plain and ordinary meaning of the words that immediately preceed them, I refer to the meaning of all the words.

I am looking at the literal meaning of a passage as an extremist might look at it. I'm not saying that's just a parable so it doesn't count type of crap.

[jb_1430]

I am looking at the literal meaning of a passage as an extremist might look at it. I'm not saying that's just a parable so it doesn't count type of crap.

Well, first of all your not using the literal interpretation. You said

"In Luke 19:22-27, Jesus orders killed anyone who refuses to be ruled by him."

When quite clearly we can see what it says is

27"But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me."

that Jesus name doesnt even appear in the verse. It is the "king" who is giving the orders, not Jesus. "Jesus" is not a literal interpretation of the word "king".

And if extremist did make such a misrepresentation of the doctrine, as you have, to incite violence, I really couldnt blame the doctrine when it is their misrepresentation of the doctrine that is doing the incitement.
Unfortunately, the fundamentalist are interpreting "fight", "kill", "slay" and "smite the necks" of the unbelievers to mean "fight", "kill", "slay" and "smite the necks" of the unbelievers, so I blame the doctrine.

[OPGhostdog]

jb_1430. This thread is called Important News. Why don't you
take your bs to Culture & Religion, and nobody's there then type
to yourself.

[KingBall]

jb_1430. This thread is called Important News. Why don't you
take your bs to Culture & Religion, and nobody's there then type
to yourself.

Yeah jb this thread is about neo nazi islamofacists and their lockstep sheep supporters.:rolleyes:

[Coyote]

Yeah jb this thread is about neo nazi islamofacists and their lockstep sheep supporters.:rolleyes:

You sound uneducated.

[Castle]

You sound uneducated.
To avoid any misunderstanding, what exactly do you mean by "uneducated"
I have seen that term used in so many different ways that I have to ask.

-Castle

[Coyote]

To avoid any misunderstanding, what exactly do you mean by "uneducated"
I have seen that term used in so many different ways that I have to ask.

-Castle


It means I'm just being a wise ass and nasty :smile:

[Castle]

It means I'm just being a wise ass and nasty :smile:

LOL.......of course humor and sarcasm. I need to lighten up. thanks for reminding me. :D

-Castle

[vyo476]

You constantly like to insert the word ONLY to create these strawman arguements to busy yourself with.

Fine, let's say "biggest" instead. In order for your whole "Islam is evil" theory to really hold weight Islam would have to be the root cause of the evil that is being perpetuated.

Like I said, Ill take the word of the Islamic fundamentalist as to what motivates them to engage in this worldwide campaign of Islamic terror before Ill take the word of those who feel compelled to defend them. To deflect attention from them. To deflect blame from them to what has been done to them by others.

You misunderstand me. I'm not defending terrorists. I'm attempting to get to the heart of what's really causing them to do what they do. That way, we can address those issues and hopefully put an end to this whole bloody mess.

I don't subscribe to the idea that Islam is causing all of this because that argument is only skin deep. If we attempt to absolve ourselves of all blame for the rise of terrorism by ignoring that we were a part of it, then we will be unable to address the issues that really drive the terrorists and we'll never be quit of them.

I want to solve the problem. I want to get to the heart of the issue and work from there. Now let's say you were right and Islam was causing all this. What then? Where do you intend to go from there? Don't ignore this paragraph, jb, it's probably the most important question I could ask you.

Just as Christian doctrine motivates a worldwide campaign of missionaries preaching the word of Jesus, Islamic Doctrine motivates a worldwide campaign to establish the rule of the Islamic caliphate. Neither would exist without the doctrine.

Not as they exist now, no. Would altruistic people still spread their vision of happiness to others, and would madmen still murder innocent people to satisfy a crazed agenda? Yes.

[vyo476]

Just so we're totally clear, I do fully and completely consider terrorists to be in the wrong. I don't condone what they do and I don't think they're justified in doing it. Understanding the actual causes of what they're doing is, for me, about protecting innocent peaceful Muslims from the backlash of the idea that Islam is causing these problems and its about solving the problems by recognizing the actual issues that drive them.

Side note...why is the edit feature turned off on this thread?

[jb_1430]

Fine, let's say "biggest" instead. In order for your whole "Islam is evil" theory to really hold weight Islam would have to be the root cause of the evil that is being perpetuated.
...
I don't subscribe to the idea that Islam is causing all of this because that argument is only skin deep. If we attempt to absolve ourselves of all blame for the rise of terrorism by ignoring that we were a part of it,

Putting quotation marks around your strawman arguements doesnt make them anything other than your strawman arguements.
At least after a week of claiming that Islam is not the cause youve finally made the first indication of what you believe is to blame for their behavior.
"WE" did it!

[OPGhostdog]

Putting quotation marks around your strawman arguements doesnt make them anything other than your strawman arguements.
At least after a week of claiming that Islam is not the cause youve finally made the first indication of what you believe is to blame for their behavior.
"WE" did it!

jb_1430, What is your POINT in keeping this stupid replay game
of your going? Yeah I know I know you from another site different
screen name, but the same old bs, and do you see that you're the
only ***hole who is keeping confusion going? Plus like I said to me
you are two faced. Look closely at the ending of your comment...
At least after a week of claiming that Islam is not the cause youve finally made the first indication of what you believe is to blame for their behavior.
"WE" did it![/QUOTE]

People have the rights to say or think the way they want to think
just like you do, and we ARE the ones who mess up things in the
Middle East. Are you in denial about that?

[jb_1430]

At least after a week of claiming that Islam is not the cause youve finally made the first indication of what you believe is to blame for their behavior.
"WE" did it!

Geeeez! Somebody get this guy a map. It was vyo476's indication.

[OPGhostdog]

I don't subscribe to the idea that Islam is causing all of this because that argument is only skin deep.

jb_1430...You the one who can't understand what vyo is saying.
All Vyo is saying is he can't accept the idea, and I have to agree
along with that....neither can I.

Then vy0 continue to say ...If we attempt to absolve ourselves
of all blame for the rise of terrorism by ignoring that we were a
part of it.

Then you comeback with your offbeat bs [quote=jb_1430]
Putting quotation marks around your strawman arguements
doesnt make them anything other than your strawman arguements.

(This is the part where you are attacking what vy0 stated.
At least after a week of claiming that Islam is not the cause
youve finally made the first indication of what you believe is
to blame for their behavior.

Oh that name that you are on the other forum is ptif219,
the blabber mouth of the internet. Like you are doing now,
and the sad part of it is You're not offering nothing to any
of the threads but hot air.

Basically, I understand my Muslim faith (do you)?, and I
believe in Islam. Which is something that you have to read
about, and what you read then post is confusing (at least)
as far as I am concerned.

Out of 2.5 billion Muslims everyone do not believe or think
the same way.
"WE" did it!

[jb_1430]

...If we attempt to absolve ourselves
of all blame for the rise of terrorism by ignoring that we were a
part of it.


Well, if "ourselves" refers to Americans, I have not made any comments one way or another as to to the "blame" due the Americans and in fact the only attempts to "absolve" anything of blame has been you, seeking to absolve Islam of any of the blame.



Out of 2.5 billion Muslims everyone do not believe or think
the same way.
"WE" did it!

Well, since I have not made any comments one way or another as to to what "2.5 billion Muslims" "belive or think", like above, this is just another in your long line of strawman arguements.


Islamic societies are ruled by insincere Muslims, unbelievers and apostates. The third category follows two ways in its action: peacefully guide the believers to the true religious path and pursue jihad against apostates rulers—those who built collaborative relationships with Jews, Christians, communists, socialists, or are committed to political institutions such as the UN, the Arab League, and embrace non-Muslim values such as democracy, socialism, and secularism; all deserve death.
http://www.ctc.usma.edu/atlas/Atlas-ResearchCompendium.pdf
p 122

[OPGhostdog]

Well, if "ourselves" refers to Americans, I have not made any comments one way or another as to to the "blame" due the Americans and in fact the only attempts to "absolve" anything of blame has been you, seeking to absolve Islam of any of the blame.

Well, since I have not made any comments one way or another as to to what "2.5 billion Muslims" "belive or think", like above, this is just another in your long line of strawman arguements.

Have your losted your damn mind? I am NOT trying to absolve ****.
I am posting you facts, and you are the one who is twisting s***
around. Stop your lying..that's the problem you have been making
incorrect comments. Believe (is not spell belive). Hell yeah I am
going to argue with your simple minded a** until you backoff or
submit a post whereas YOU are not arguing.

Its my right to speak out again your bs especially when you are
wrong, and like to keep the s*** going. What you need to do is
cut off your computer, and go to your closet to play with your
rubber doll.

In closing...you can't make a comment about the 2.5 billions
Muslims, due to the fact that you was not aware to that fact,
but I bet $200 to your five 10cent pop bottles you are researching
it now. Thereforth I will be waiting to chop your a** up again
when you post some more bs.

You hate defeat don't you? Wait!!! Let me make it more clear to
you......In otherwords you want to be the know it all, and you think
that everyone else knows nothing. Well Buddy you are wrong.

[vyo476]

Putting quotation marks around your strawman arguements doesnt make them anything other than your strawman arguements.

And this usage of repetition is just another dodge. If Islam is evil and Islam is to blame, it'd have to be the base cause, right? Or, in your world, is it possible that Islam didn't cause this but is still primarily to blame?

At least after a week of claiming that Islam is not the cause youve finally made the first indication of what you believe is to blame for their behavior.
"WE" did it!

Oh my sweet chocolate Christ you're impossible.

I believe that the combination of conditions in the Middle East has lead to the rise of Islamic terrorism. These are people who feel as though their sovereignty has been violated, their natural share of the profits of their land have been denied them, and they have been mocked, ridiculed, and generally looked down upon by the West for a long, long time. They don't have anything to take pride in so they latch onto extremism.

Well, if "ourselves" refers to Americans, I have not made any comments one way or another as to to the "blame" due the Americans and in fact the only attempts to "absolve" anything of blame has been you, seeking to absolve Islam of any of the blame.

Now who is throwing around straw men? I don't believe Islam is blameless in all this, just that it is not the root cause. You could argue that Nazism caused World War II - but to do that and only that would ignore what caused Nazism in the first place. If we could have convinced the German people that they didn't need the Nazis to solve their government's woes...WWII might not have happened.

You want to say that Islam is weak because it is easily susceptible to fueling terrorists? Go ahead, say it, it's true. All religions are interpretable and it is easy to interpret Islam violently (you've done it magnificently). But don't blame Islam for terrorism. It's part of the problem - but not the cause of the problem.

There are deeper reasons for just about everything in this world, jb. The answer isn't always what's right in front of your nose.

[vyo476]

Hey jb, maybe you missed this in one of my last posts, so I figure I'll post it again. I'll even bold it so it's harder to miss, since obviously there is no way you were, say, avoiding it.

I want to solve the problem. I want to get to the heart of the issue and work from there. Now let's say you were right and Islam was causing all this. What then? Where do you intend to go from there? Don't ignore this paragraph, jb, it's probably the most important question I could ask you.

[OPGhostdog]

Hey jb, maybe you missed this in one of my last posts, so I figure I'll post it again. I'll even bold it so it's harder to miss, since obviously there is no way you were, say, avoiding it.

I want to solve the problem. I want to get to the heart of the issue and work from there. Now let's say you were right and Islam was causing all this. What then? Where do you intend to go from there? Don't ignore this paragraph, jb, it's probably the most important question I could ask you.

HOT Damn Vy0, ^5^ high five... Yeah I would like to know do from
that point. Vy0 jb is going to ignore your question, and he will keep
on blabbering at the mouth. Like I said I know jb from two other
threads, and he have always avoided heavy odds against him.

Is jb in the 5th grade?

[jb_1430]

Have your losted your damn mind? I am NOT trying to absolve ****.
I am posting you facts,

Youve not posted anything other than your personal opinions. Nothing other than the ideas bouncing around in your own head. And youve not even once tried to address the written word of your fellow Muslims that I have posted.

[jb_1430]

Hey jb, maybe you missed this in one of my last posts, so I figure I'll post it again. I'll even bold it so it's harder to miss, since obviously there is no way you were, say, avoiding it.

I want to solve the problem. I want to get to the heart of the issue and work from there. Now let's say you were right and Islam was causing all this. What then? Where do you intend to go from there? Don't ignore this paragraph, jb, it's probably the most important question I could ask you.

Embrace reality. Stop pretending that "Islam is peace" and recognize that the doctrine lies at the root of this worldwide campaign of terrorism by the Islamic fundamentalist. Recognize that while they oppose the government in the US, they also oppose every government in the mid east. The establishment of the Islamic caliphate is their goal, and they oppose anyone who they believe stands in the way of that goal. We could withdraw every single military personnel from every nation in the Mid east. We could cut of all aid to Israel, Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Iraq and Afghanistan and they would still wage jihad to establish the Islamic caliphate.
I dont propose to know the magic answer to solve the problem but I know that pretending it is not there only encourages its continuation.


The common ground among the scholars behind the jihadi movement is their rejection of Muslims living under apostate laws and political systems governing outside what God has decreed. The required response—for all, but to differing degrees and with differing tactics—is resistance.
http://www.jamestown.org/terrorism/news/article.php?articleid=2370233

[jb_1430]

You could argue that Nazism caused World War II - but to do that and only that would ignore what caused Nazism in the first place. If we could have convinced the German people that they didn't need the Nazis to solve their government's woes...WWII might not have happened.



well, thats certainly in line with your assesment of the current situation.
I see your still injecting "only" into the equation, as if I had. I never claimed Islam was the only cause and it was my claim simply that it was a cause that youve been disputing every time I made it.

[vyo476]

Embrace reality. Stop pretending that "Islam is peace" and recognize that the doctrine lies at the root of this worldwide campaign of terrorism by the Islamic fundamentalist. Recognize that while they oppose the government in the US, they also oppose every government in the mid east. The establishment of the Islamic caliphate is their goal, and they oppose anyone who they believe stands in the way of that goal. We could withdraw every single military personnel from every nation in the Mid east. We could cut of all aid to Israel, Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Iraq and Afghanistan and they would still wage jihad to establish the Islamic caliphate.

I don't pretend that "Islam is peace," I know that this is the reality of it for some people. I know that Islam is used to justify this worldwide campaign of terrorism by the Islamic fundamentalist, but I don't believe that Islam is the root cause - and I don't really believe that any further discussion on the subject has any merit.

I dont propose to know the magic answer to solve the problem but I know that pretending it is not there only encourages its continuation.

Here we go then. Let's take a look at the hypothetical world you've created.

The United States embraces the idea that we're fighting Islam because Islam is violent, bloodthirsty, and evil. What are the consequences of doing so?

What happens to at least 2 million American Muslims, whose religion is now officially "evil" according to the United States government?

How does the United States go about trying to eliminate the problem - Islam? Do we blow up Mecca, which (at last check) resides in a country that is currently our ally?

Can you answer either of these questions even perfunctorily?

If you want an acknowledgment of the role of Islam in terrorism from me, jb, here it is: Islam is used by militants to justify their actions. Perhaps you would like to provide your own version of the role of Islam in terrorism.

[jb_1430]

These are people who feel as though their sovereignty has been violated, their natural share of the profits of their land have been denied them, and they have been mocked, ridiculed, and generally looked down upon by the West for a long, long time. They don't have anything to take pride in so they latch onto extremism.


The Muslims have told the US what motivates them as long as the US has been around. In 1786 Thomas Jefferson and John Adams asked the Tripoli ambassador to Britain, why they attack Americans, held them captives and enslaved them, The ambassador told them the same thing they are telling us now,


“that it was founded on the Laws of their Prophet, that it was written in their Koran, that all nations who should not have acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as Prisoners, and that every Musselman who should be slain in Battle was sure to go to Paradise.”
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/london200512160955.asp


No doubt you would argue they suffered from this same lack of pride that they do today. Ignore what they directly tell us that motivates their actions and create a scenario in your mind as to their motivation.

[jb_1430]

Here we go then. Let's take a look at the hypothetical world you've created.

The United States embraces the idea that we're fighting Islam because Islam is violent, bloodthirsty, and evil. What are the consequences of doing so?



Who said anything about fighting Islam?
What we do is recognize what motivates them, realize that their motivation wont go away with psychological counseling to improve their self image. Realize that there is probably nothing we can do to eliminate their motivation.

[USMC the Almighty]

No doubt you would argue they suffered from this same lack of pride that they do today. Ignore what they directly tell us that motivates their actions and create a scenario in your mind as to their motivation.

I'm with you here jb. Americans have this bad habit of not taking evil men at their word and it has come back to hurt us time after time.

When the terrorists tell us that they are fighting in the name of Islam, we should take their claims seriously. The only people I hear claiming that American "colonialism" or American foreign policy are driving the terrorist are the liberal apologists for Islam. Was our same "colonialism" driving the Barbary pirates over 200 years ago? Or was it their religion which insists that they kill all infidels and establish their Sharia law?

[jb_1430]

I know that Islam is used to justify this worldwide campaign of terrorism by the Islamic fundamentalist, but I don't believe that Islam is the root cause -

????? "Used"? I think they GENUINELY BELIEVE that they are acting according to Islamic doctrine.

[jb_1430]

I'm with you here jb. Americans have this bad habit of not taking evil men at their word and it has come back to hurt us time after time.

When the terrorists tell us that they are fighting in the name of Islam, we should take their claims seriously. The only people I hear claiming that American "colonialism" or American foreign policy are driving the terrorist are the liberal apologists for Islam. Was our same "colonialism" driving the Barbary pirates over 200 years ago? Or was it their religion which insists that they kill all infidels and establish their Sharia law?

Yeah. Had it been Christian Fundamentalist from the middle east who attacked us, I suspect their views would be quite different.

[OPGhostdog]

When the terrorists tell us that they are fighting in the name of Islam, we should take their claims seriously.

USMC, I do not agree with being a terrorist, but there is no difference
in them fighting for Islam then fighting for the United States.
Yeah take them serious, due to the fact that they are taking us real
serious. You people is looking at the war from one viewpoint, and yet
you are ignoring the real BIG PICTURE.

It seems to me that many of you do have Islamphobia, cause if you
didn't you would not be beating this subject to death, and what many
of you can't see is we (USA) is being called terrorist too.

To be honest, its to bad that there's not a physical showdown here
in America between Muslims, and non Muslims who is doing wrong.
Instead of fighting in the Middle East, fight here on the home front
against racism,discrimination,unemployment, unfair education,
and from what I see everyday on here is a bunch of Bush supporters
many of you are bushwhacked.

Do any of you realize that there is other issues that needs to be
talked about, but that will never happen with a bunch of self-
centered people who have their own agenda. There has been so
good threads and debates posted, but people do not discuss the
post, and what they do is override the thread's subject with
their own garbage.

9Sub, here is a suggestion for you to think about. Create a thread
titled......Off The Treads Subject. This will allow subjects to be
discussed, and one post will appear one minute, and a new thread
the next minute. I think its selfish to overpost on a subject that's
not 2 minutes old.

[ilikeboobs]

I think it is silly for Islam to refer to itself as the "Religion of Peace" when its followers fly planes into American buildings and then the so-called moderate Muslims in Israel are dancing in the streets.

When an abortion clinic is bombed in name of Christianity, there is immediate ringing condemnation throughout the entire faith and that individual is renounced and ostracized from the community -- not hailed as martyrs in their ongoing war against the West.


Absolutely right. Show me where Christians are systematically committing genocide anywhere in the world today (see Darfur), or where Jews are calling for the death of unbelievers, or Hindus are blowing up ancient statues of other religions, or where Buhddists are beating their women and honor-killing them.

Islam is the most intolerant religion in the world. Hands down. You can't deny it. That said - I can ALMOST see their point about the West exporting immorality around the world. Porn, violent movies, obsession with wealth, gay crap, rap music...if I were a wholesome religious person and this was being pushed on me, I'd be irritated, too. BUT...not to the point of killing people in my God's name to stop it.

[jb_1430]

USMC, I do not agree with being a terrorist, but there is no difference
in them fighting for Islam then fighting for the United States.


?????? One fights for freedom, equality, democracy, government of, by and for the people, and protection of our own a s s. The other fights for the imposition of an Islamic theocracy to rule the world according to allah. BIG DIFFERENCE! And then there's that glaring difference where we prefer to fight with our military against the opposing combatants. Those fighting for Islam seem to have a strong preference for taking the fight to civilians, women and children and doing everything they can to avoid our military.

[jb_1430]

To be honest, its to bad that there's not a physical showdown here in America between Muslims, and non Muslims who is doing wrong.


Isnt that what most Muslims aspire to?

[OPGhostdog]

Isnt that what most Muslims aspire to?

In the Kingdom we are taught to defend ourselves from outside
people. We don't just jump up, and start fighting for no reason
at all. Like you (jb_1430) stated ??????
one fights for freedom, equality, democracy, government of,
by and for the people, and protection of our own a s s.
The other fights for the imposition of an Islamic theocracy to
rule the world according to allah. BIG DIFFERENCE! And then


Again, What is democrary in the Middle East/Iraq. Do you
realize that the Iraqi people is fighting for freedom, and a
Government that represents THEIR people...not us.
See!!!! You are still stuck on being stupid, due to the fact
that you keep throwing Allah's name up. and again Allah is GOD.

[jb_1430]

In the Kingdom we are taught to defend ourselves from outside
people. We don't just jump up, and start fighting for no reason
at all. Like you (jb_1430) stated



Revealing that you consider "here in America" to be part of "the kingdom" and "non muslims" as "outside people". You could be right about the need for a "physical showdown here in America between Muslims, and non Muslims"

[OPGhostdog]

Revealing that you consider "here in America" to be part of "the kingdom" and "non muslims" as "outside people". You could be right about the need for a "physical showdown here in America between Muslims, and non Muslims"

America is hardly a part of the Kingdom..The Kingdom is Islam,
and NOT the United Snakes here in America. A Physical showdown
would ice know it all people like you, and believe me If a uprise was
to happen agian...you would be the first chicken to run.

Again, Muslims are peaceful people until they are pushed to the
limit, and then the Nation, The Kingdom, and other Black movement
group will join together as one. Now smartass after reading what I
just said are you still game for a Physical showdown?

Don't disgrace me by saying the Kingdom could be this country,
due to the fact thar in the kingdom we stay focus on our own
lives, and how to help others to live a peaceful life.
Americans are different they focus on other peoples lifes, and
their own life. Plus they are professionals dipping into other
peoples business.

[jb_1430]

Again, Muslims are peaceful people until they are pushed to the
limit, and then the Nation, The Kingdom, and other Black movement
group will join together as one. Now smartass after reading what I
just said are you still game for a Physical showdown?



B R I N G I T O N, D U M B A S S ! ! ! ! ! ! !

[Castle]

Again, Muslims are peaceful people until they are pushed to the limit, and then the Nation, The Kingdom, and other Black movement group will join together as one. Now smartass after reading what I just said are you still game for a Physical showdown?
Just for the sake of argument, lets replace "Muslims" with Christians and "Black" with white. Do you have any idea what you sound like?! I don't suppose you do or maybe you think you're beyond reproach.

As for a physical showdown, I would like nothing more. When your brothers in cowardice aren't hiding behind a civilian population, they are flying planes into buildings, blowing up school buses and indoctrinating a new generation of homicide bombers to continue this bloodlust. Standing toe-to-toe would be a refreshing change that would no doubt have YOU running faster then the Iraqi army did out of Kuwait after we arrived.

Don't disgrace me by saying the Kingdom could be this country, due to the fact thar in the kingdom we stay focus on our own lives, and how to help others to live a peaceful life. Americans are different they focus on other peoples lifes, and their own life. Plus they are professionals dipping into other peoples business.
Who exactly are you referring to?!!! Islamic Jihad? Hamas? Al Qaeda? Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade? Ansar al-Islam? Hezbollah? I could go on all night listing more Islamic organizations that wish only to spread your version of PEACE!

You disgrace yourself if you expect that I buy into your rhetoric.

-Castle

[9sublime]

I hope you two have read the report saying that support has dropped for suicide bombings in most of the Muslim world by a considerable percentage.

[OPGhostdog]

B R I N G I T O N, D U M B A S S ! ! ! ! ! ! !

Jb got some where and play with yourself little punk.
Because you are not worth me wasting my time, and
besides I am not into fighting over the internet. But
if we was face to face, hell yeah I be game.

[OPGhostdog]

Who exactly are you referring to?!!! Islamic Jihad? Hamas? Al Qaeda? Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade? Ansar al-Islam? Hezbollah? I could go on all night listing more Islamic organizations that wish only to spread your version of PEACE!
You disgrace yourself if you expect that I buy into your rhetoric.

The first ones I am talking about is people like you, but the ones that
you named is included, and as far as me disgracing myself..who am I
doing that in front of?, and nobody have a gun to your head forcing
you to buy nothing. If anything Castle, you have shown the fact that
all you white Islam/Muslim haters are alike.

jb_1340 and you don't seem to understand that everyone have
the rights to think or worship the way they want to worship,
and just because the Muslim faith has people who think like they do,
don't mean that all Muslims are alike.

That's just like you whites hate it when someone say that you all
look alike. Do you all look alike?:D If your answer is no then Muslims
are not alike.

[jb_1430]

jb_1340 and you don't seem to understand that everyone have
the rights to think or worship the way they want to worship,
and just because the Muslim faith has people who think like they do,
don't mean that all Muslims are alike.



My problem is that the doctrine doesnt recognize that people can "think or worship the way they want to worship". The fact that not all Muslims follow this doctrine is of some consolation, but it doesnt diminish the criticism of the doctrine.

[jb_1430]

Jb got some where and play with yourself little punk.
Because you are not worth me wasting my time, and
besides I am not into fighting over the internet. But
if we was face to face, hell yeah I be game.

Ill keep the trusty Desert Eagle cleaned and polished in anticipation of such a time. AMERICA AKBAR!!!!!

[OPGhostdog]

My problem is that the doctrine doesnt recognize that people can "think or worship the way they want to worship". The fact that not all Muslims follow this doctrine is of some consolation, but it doesnt diminish the criticism of the doctrine.

STILL!!! Who are you to pass judgement on anyone who have
their own style of worshipping? You know jb_1430, you make it
seems like you have a PH.D in religion studied. Show me the
facts where most Muslims do not follow the doctrine of Islam.
I don't care if a person is a ****e, or a Sunni, Islam has one
doctrine.

I suggest that you take a week off from your computer, and
go into the Muslim world for some positive research information.
Because first you are on one side of the fence, and the next
minute you on the other side. Are you aware to the 5 Pillars
in the Islam teaching ( like you said...Doctrines).

Once you do that then we can talk like two people will plenty
of good knowledge.

[jb_1430]

I hope you two have read the report saying that support has dropped for suicide bombings in most of the Muslim world by a considerable percentage.

The benefit of the smack down the islamic fundamentalist have suffered at the hands of the US in the last 6 years.

[Coyote]

The benefit of the smack down the islamic fundamentalist have suffered at the hands of the US in the last 6 years.

That is not necessarily a causal relationship.

Given the mess in Iraq and our inability to end the terrorism there and the resurgence of the Taliban terrorism in Afghanistan - tell, what is this smack down you are talking about?

[jb_1430]

That is not necessarily a causal relationship.

Given the mess in Iraq and our inability to end the terrorism there and the resurgence of the Taliban terrorism in Afghanistan - tell, what is this smack down you are talking about?


Dead and imprisoned Islamic fundamentalist.

[jb_1430]

Once you do that then we can talk like two people will plenty
of good knowledge.


You cant address the doctrine Ive already provided. You only avoid it. Cant imagine any point in injecting other issues you cant discuss.

[OPGhostdog]

You cant address the doctrine Ive already provided. You only avoid it. Cant imagine any point in injecting other issues you cant discuss.

JB_1430, F*** you and your bullcrap. Again, I do not have to proof ****
to you. I have responded to your request many times,and if you don't
have it by now you will never know.

Keep bugging me with your bs. I have asked you nicely to bug off,but
I see you are not understanding that (OR) you are determine to have
it your way huh?

Now like I said I do not have to reply,debate,or provide you with
no information. You are a pain in the ass, and I am trying to get
you to see that.

[jb_1430]

I will take you on any day and anytime. You with your internet research, and me with my Bible & Quran. Plus what I have learned from real scholors in the holy cities in the Middle East.


Why should I address isues that I find not worthy to discuss?


Once you do that then we can talk like two people will plenty of good knowledge.

Again, I do not have to proof ****
to you... Now like I said I do not have to reply,debate,or provide you with
no information. You are a pain in the ass, and I am trying to get
you to see that.


Typical.......

[Castle]

The first ones I am talking about is people like you, but the ones that
you named is included, and as far as me disgracing myself..who am I
doing that in front of?, and nobody have a gun to your head forcing
you to buy nothing. If anything Castle, you have shown the fact that
all you white Islam/Muslim haters are alike.

jb_1340 and you don't seem to understand that everyone have
the rights to think or worship the way they want to worship,
and just because the Muslim faith has people who think like they do,
don't mean that all Muslims are alike.

That's just like you whites hate it when someone say that you all
look alike. Do you all look alike?:D If your answer is no then Muslims
are not alike.

Ahhh yes. I'm sorry OpGhostdog but you make this too easy. For starters, it is very unwise to portray me or anyone else as a white Islam/Muslim hater while in the same post you generalize all whites. This diminishes your position even before I begin to expose this false accusation.

I expect in your response you will provide me with a quote where I make clear that I hate ALL Muslims or that ALL Muslims are alike. I seem to remember listing a few Islamic organizations from a rather LONG list that appeared to be in sync with your rather venomous hatred of American society. You seem to crave, as you put it, a physical confrontation. Is this part of your prescription for peace?

Also, please be so kind as to point out where I claimed that everyone must think and worship the way I do! Is it a form of worship to carry out the homicide attacks that so many Islamic organizations have in the past? Am I offending their freedom of thought be criticizing this? If I believed that ALL Muslims condoned this savagery I would have stated so. As I did not, I am curious as to how you will spin your response to make it so.

-Castle

[OPGhostdog]

Ahhh yes. I'm sorry OpGhostdog but you make this too easy. For starters, it is very unwise to portray me or anyone else as a white Islam/Muslim hater while in the same post you generalize all whites. This diminishes your position even before I begin to expose this false accusation.

I expect in your response you will provide me with a quote where I make clear that I hate ALL Muslims or that ALL Muslims are alike. I seem to remember listing a few Islamic organizations from a rather LONG list that appeared to be in sync with your rather venomous hatred of American society. You seem to crave, as you put it, a physical confrontation. Is this part of your prescription for peace?

Also, please be so kind as to point out where I claimed that everyone must think and worship the way I do! Is it a form of worship to carry out the homicide attacks that so many Islamic organizations have in the past? Am I offending their freedom of thought be criticizing this? If I believed that ALL Muslims condoned this savagery I would have stated so. As I did not, I am curious as to how you will spin your response to make it so.

-Castle


Castle, You are right, and I am withdrawing my statement
when I say ALL WHITES. Because I have some whites in my
organization who hates like hell that this Muslim/American
debete is happening, and many visit this site to read the hate.

Frankly Castle, Before 9-11 happened Muslims here in America
minded their own business. However Castle..I do reply according
to the vibes (words) of a post, but I will say that there is a bunch
of innocent people dying in the Middle East, and from your views
why is America trying to bring peace to the Middle East?

Is it about being greedy over oil? or is it a real concern to
help the people in the Middle East?

[Coyote]

Dead and imprisoned Islamic fundamentalist.

You make no sense.

[jb_1430]

You make no sense.

The difficulties you are encountering originate with your inability to comprehend.

[OPGhostdog]

You make no sense.

Coyote according to jb he is the know it all, but your
statement is what I have been trying to get over to him,
and he seems to think that everything he say is right.
However learning from reading the newspaper, or watching
the 6 " O Clock " news isn't the best way to know things
like personal experience is.

Having a positive attitute with whatever Religion one choose
is what makes the religion peaceful. At the Mosque I attend
there seem to be over 500 worshippers has found peace within
themselves. The way this topic is presented itself it is basically
speaking about Islam, and its like a beehive as long as the nest
is left alone there's no problem. However if a person keep messing
with the beehive...the bees will attack, and that's how human
reaction works.

So don't blame it on the religion, but blame it on the situation that
created the problem, and then one will get to the prime of the
problem. Everybody is quick to point to Islam, without really knowing
the reason, and the reason why its so much hate towards Islam
and Muslims is because of the American paragenda.

To hear some of you tell it Muslims are devil dogs, and Islam is a
place where Terrorist,Extremist, and fundamentalist exist.
In Closing, If someone was to punch you in your face once, none
of you can tell me you won't react, and lose your peace of mind
regardless to your religion.

[saggyjones]

I am way beyond caring who I offend. I'm going to call it as I see it and I don't give a damn if I am not following the liberal PC censorship.

The fact of the matter is that Muslims comprise the biggest threat to this country.

I'm not saying to censor anything, and I don't care much about political correctness. But you are saying that the entire Muslim religion is out to get America, which isn't true. I know there are sects that want to kill us, and they are pretty much all Muslim, but not all Muslims are terrorists.

[saggyjones]

You may not mean it but thats exactly what it is. This semming ban on criticism of the Islamic "religion" because it might be viewed or percieved as an attack on all Muslims. So just sweep it under the rug. Pretend it doesnt exist because we wouldnt want to offend anyone. Pathetic.

I never said we should pretend the threat from Muslims doesn't exist. Piss off.

[jb_1430]

So don't blame it on the religion, but blame it on the situation that
created the problem, and then one will get to the prime of the
problem. Everybody is quick to point to Islam, without really knowing
the reason, and the reason why its so much hate towards Islam
and Muslims is because of the American paragenda.



How Islamic. Dont blame the religion, dont blame the muslims who carry out the attacks, blame the situation they have been put into.... no doubt put there by the Americans .

[OPGhostdog]

How Islamic. Dont blame the religion, dont blame the muslims who carry out the attacks, blame the situation they have been put into.... no doubt put there by the Americans .

JB, Do you have anything else to do besides keep **** going?
I agree totally with Saggyjones USMC and you. Due to the fact
both of you (especially YOU) seem to always be pointing your
finger at Muslims or Islam, but what about the dirty stuff that
the American government is doing?, and that is what you are
avoiding.

I am not the only one who is saying that ALL Muslims should
not be classified alike, due to the fact that there is many types
of Muslims, and again NOT ALL MUSLIMS are terrorists.
But you are continuing to make things look good from your
viewpoint. Are you that ingorant that you can't see who is
making the situation worse?

Your quote above sounds like you are high off of milk. Because
the more you post to justify your offbeat opinion the dumber
you sound.

You damn right I am speaking from a Muslim (as you call it)
Islamic. Why don't you blame your religion for making you
the a**hole you are, and that's because you have no insight
on what you are posting, and I think you like being abused
at least that's the way it seems to me.

Again Saggyjones made it plain enough to shut you up,but
for some reason you love to be embarrassed,and that is what
makes me think you are a freak for pian.

[jb_1430]

Again Saggyjones made it plain enough to shut you up,but
for some reason you love to be embarrassed,and that is what
makes me think you are a freak for pian.


???? Saggy Jones has made it pretty clear that he cannot even comprehend my comments.

[OPGhostdog]

???? Saggy Jones has made it pretty clear that he cannot even comprehend my comments.

Hahahaha :D Nobody can understand you talking out the side
of your neck, and sometimes I don't think you understand your
own self. That's sad when a person gets chewed up on the
internet in a chatroom or message board.

Do you have a reading comprehensive problem?, or are you
just a in need for attention jerk? Every topic that's on this
site has a meaning behind it (which is serious), but somehow
you seem to take it lightly, and your thinking ability is no
where close to mine. You see I deal with the reality of things,
and you!!!! oh well you seem to always bring up other peoples
thoughts from Newspapers,Books and other paragenda info.

Here's a suggestion for you to follow. Do a search on How To
Debate, and learn how to debate without repeating yourself
over and over and over again.

[invest07]

What disturbs me the most about Muslims is the almost total lack of condemnation of radical Islam by the so-called moderate Muslims.

When a terrorist attack occurs, the "moderate" Muslims never really condemn the act. They call for restraint and circle the wagons. The lack of true condemnation makes me wonder if there are any Muslims who don't agree with the radicals.

Are there really any "good" Muslims who condemn terrorism and practise a religion of peace? I doubt this very seriously.

[saggyjones]

Thanks OPGhostdog.

???? Saggy Jones has made it pretty clear that he cannot even comprehend my comments.

You're an idiot.

[Coyote]

???? Saggy Jones has made it pretty clear that he cannot even comprehend my comments.

I believe what we have here is a communications problem.


No one seems to comprehend what the hell you're talking about.

[OPGhostdog]

What disturbs me the most about Muslims is the almost total lack of condemnation of radical Islam by the so-called moderate Muslims.

When a terrorist attack occurs, the "moderate" Muslims never really condemn the act. They call for restraint and circle the wagons. The lack of true condemnation makes me wonder if there are any Muslims who don't agree with the radicals.

Are there really any "good" Muslims who condemn terrorism and practise a religion of peace? I doubt this very seriously.

If you don't know just admit that YOU don't know, and stop
trying to pull people into your spidderweb. How can you ask a
question, and answer it too Invest? Who care about what YOU
doubt. Some of your Islam/Muslim philosophers need to stop
trying to make yourself look good by making false claims about
knowing about Islim, and all you doing is making yourselves
look like damn fools.

The knowledge and understanding the teaching of Islam is
the key to the door. However on every forum that I have been
on there is nothing but so-called talk from non-Muslims about
Islam, and the information from the newspapers,magazines,and
the tel-a-lie-vision is all false information.

You will never meet a Muslim that would be able to show you
corrections, cause for the past six years you have been brain
damaged by your own government that don't give a f***
about you, and you come on this forum like you have a ED.D
in Middle Eastern studies. Get Real.

[OPGhostdog]

I believe what we have here is a communications problem. No one seems to comprehend what the hell you're talking about.

Well spoken Coyote, I couldn't have said it more plainer, and the
killing part Coyote he will ignore the truth. I really believe that jb
is two things (1): A young kid who wants to look grown, and (2):
seek attention that he can't get at home (if he isn't in fostercare)

None of his so-called debates have any meaning to them, and as
you said who can understand his points that he be trying to make.
Like W.C.Fields would say.......Go away little boy you are bugging me.

[Coyote]

What disturbs me the most about Muslims is the almost total lack of condemnation of radical Islam by the so-called moderate Muslims.

When a terrorist attack occurs, the "moderate" Muslims never really condemn the act. They call for restraint and circle the wagons. The lack of true condemnation makes me wonder if there are any Muslims who don't agree with the radicals.

Are there really any "good" Muslims who condemn terrorism and practise a religion of peace? I doubt this very seriously.

http://www.tcsdaily.com/article.aspx?id=052207B

[jb_1430]

You will never meet a Muslim that would be able to show you corrections, cause for the past six years you have been brain
damaged by your own government that don't give a f***
about you, and you come on this forum like you have a ED.D
in Middle Eastern studies. Get Real.


Well, if they are like you, they wouldnt even attempt to make a correction. In fact I dont believe youve directly addressed a single point made about Islam. I assumed you simply didnt have enough knopwledge of the doctrine to make a correction. Or, you have quite a bit of knowledge and know there is nothing to correct. Youve not offered a single verse from the koran or haddiths to change the meaning of the many verses I have offered. Youve not provided even one writing from an Islamic scholar to counter the meaning of the writings from Islamic scholars thay I have offered. I cant help but notice, you dont even try. But always eager to share the thoughts bouncing around in your own head AS IF it had any relevence whatsoever to the discussion.

[OPGhostdog]

Well, if they are like you, they wouldnt even attempt to make a correction. In fact I dont believe youve directly addressed a single point made about Islam. I assumed you simply didnt have enough knopwledge of the doctrine to make a correction. Or, you have quite a bit of knowledge and know there is nothing to correct. Youve not offered a single verse from the koran or haddiths to change the meaning of the many verses I have offered. Youve not provided even one writing from an Islamic scholar to counter the meaning of the writings from Islamic scholars thay I have offered. I cant help but notice, you dont even try. But always eager to share the thoughts bouncing around in your own head AS IF it had any relevence whatsoever to the discussion.

Hell no there is only one of me, and believe me I don;t suck butts.
You don't have to believe **** I say, due to the fact that you are
on the outside looking in, and I am already on the inside. What you
don't understand? You that f***ed up in the mind until you are
stuck on stupid? I do not have to explain NOTHING to you at all/
TRy?? Who in the hell are you that I have to try to prove a damn
thing to you. Sure thoughts bounce around in my head about
why are you so ingorant. Discussion!!! You haven't said anything that's
worth discussing with you.

Listen, there is ONLY two things that I have to do, and thats live
and die. Have it every occured to you that maybe I do not want
to discuss anything with you? Are you that retarded?

Even better I know how to fix you to keep from being bothered
with you. Watch me.

[OPGhostdog]

There's nothing like having a peaceful discussion.
Now we can communicate without the little girl
interferring.

[vyo476]

Are there really any "good" Muslims who condemn terrorism and practise a religion of peace? I doubt this very seriously.

Instead of asking yourself this question, ask yourself a few of these:

If someone you didn't like much was attacked by someone you didn't like much in the name of something you had in common, would you get up and yell about it a lot? Honestly, would you want to?

And passiveness is a form of peace, no? Just because they aren't standing up and saying "We don't like murderers!" doesn't mean they aren't peaceful. Actively supporting terrorists would mean they aren't peaceful, and participating in terrorist acts would certainly mean they aren't peaceful. Most do neither. Keeping their mouthes shut while one undesirable group attacks another only means they're human.

[saggyjones]

Instead of asking yourself this question, ask yourself a few of these:

If someone you didn't like much was attacked by someone you didn't like much in the name of something you had in common, would you get up and yell about it a lot? Honestly, would you want to?

And passiveness is a form of peace, no? Just because they aren't standing up and saying "We don't like murderers!" doesn't mean they aren't peaceful. Actively supporting terrorists would mean they aren't peaceful, and participating in terrorist acts would certainly mean they aren't peaceful. Most do neither. Keeping their mouthes shut while one undesirable group attacks another only means they're human.

Well spoken!

[jb_1430]

I will take you on any day and anytime. You with your internet
research, and me with my Bible & Quran. Plus what I have learned
from real scholors in the holy cities in the Middle East.



I do not have to explain NOTHING to you at all/
TRy?? Who in the hell are you that I have to try to prove a damn
thing to you. Sure thoughts bounce around in my head about
why are you so ingorant. Discussion!!! You haven't said anything that's
worth discussing with you...Have it every occured to you that maybe I do not want to discuss anything with you? Are you that retarded?


Typical. Lots of bluster, no substance. So, is this what the "real scholors in the holy cities in the Middle East" taught you?


you are the damn demon...
My opinions is my opinions...
You the Damn kid punk...
how dumb you are...
You will NEVER be as smart or wise as I am...
get your rubber doll ...
making a damn fool out of yourself with your paragenda...
You don't know what you are talking about Barney Fife...
how stupid you are...
Do you suffer from Downs Syndromes or something...
You are still stuck on being stupid...
your thinking ability is no where close to mine...

[Kwaku]

the wise men in the middle east sure seem to have lost their touch if this is all they deliver.... ;)
I like the "still stuck on being stupid" thing though, sounds like an album by a band of angry teenage girls.

[invest07]

vyo476

Have you ever heard of the concept of duplicity?

It is my opinion that silence is a form of endorsement of the action due to the lack of condemnation.

One of my kids took my car last week and he said he did it because I didn't stop him from doing the same thing a few weeks earlier. By not condemning the first act, my kid took this as an endorsement of the act. And that made it OK to repeat.

If you see a crime committed and don't condemn it or report it, are you guilty of duplicity if the crime occurs again? I say you are.

The silence of the mythical "good Muslims" is deafening, is duplicitous, and is a silent condonement of terrosrism.

I repeat my contention. Are there really any "good Muslims"? I have serious doubts.

[9sublime]

Do you condemn and report every bad deed done by some nutjbob Christian every hour of every day? Why the hell do you think this rule of denouncing terrorism all the time should only count to Muslims?

Anyway, why should they apologise for something in their religion so much? Radical Islam is not the same religion as Peaceful Islam, so they are not really the same group and have no duty to group themselves together.

You do not condem every action done by a bad person simply because you are human and so are they. Thus, your duplicity rule is applied to you.

I find it offensive that you say there are no good Muslims. I have some very good Muslim friends, and they hate terrorism.

[vyo476]

vyo476

Have you ever heard of the concept of duplicity?

It is my opinion that silence is a form of endorsement of the action due to the lack of condemnation.

So you subscribe to Bush's "If you're not with us, you're against us" rhetoric?

One of my kids took my car last week and he said he did it because I didn't stop him from doing the same thing a few weeks earlier. By not condemning the first act, my kid took this as an endorsement of the act. And that made it OK to repeat.

There is a difference here. You are responsible for your children and their actions. You are not responsible for the actions of your neighbors.

If you see a crime committed and don't condemn it or report it, are you guilty of duplicity if the crime occurs again? I say you are.

If you hear about a crime that was committed hundreds of miles away by people whose only link to you is the name of the religion you both follow (even if how you follow it is totally different) and you don't start yelling your head off about how it was bad and immoral, are you guilty of duplicity if the crime occurs again?

This model you have presented here would tend to suggest that moderate Muslims literally sit on street corners and watch terrorists as they plot to and eventually attack Americans and don't say or do anything. In most cases, moderate Muslims are just people trying to keep to themselves.

The silence of the mythical "good Muslims" is deafening, is duplicitous, and is a silent condonement of terrosrism.

This is a gross oversimplification of matters. This is not an "us or them" situation. If it were, we'd be royally ****ed.

I repeat my contention. Are there really any "good Muslims"? I have serious doubts.

I'd introduce you to a few, but I doubt they'd take to your bigotry.

[PoliticalMessager]

Typical. Lots of bluster, no substance. So,
is this what the "real scholors in the holy cities in the Middle
East" taught you?

JB!!! Why are you at Ghostdog? When it seems to me you're
the mental problem. I am saying that because you do not
know anything about Ghostdog beside his typing, and it seems
that you are either jealous or envy him because of his knowledge.

From what I can see from you is you're a bookworm, and you're
thinking that you know everything. Well Pal, you are in for a rude
awakening. So being the person you think you are make you wise
or perfect? Your attitude stinks so bad until you can't stand your
self no doult, and coming online faking makes you a self-appointed
hero huh?

I bet you are one of them Black haters huh?, but I bet you try to
dress Black,think Black, and even go so far to look Black. Get Real
dude, this is the internet, and nobody really give a f**k about you
or what you think.

[jb_1430]

Typical. Lots of bluster, no substance.


JB!!! Why are you at Ghostdog? When it seems to me you're
the mental problem. I am saying that because you do not
know anything about Ghostdog beside his typing, and it seems
that you are either jealous or envy him because of his knowledge.

From what I can see from you is you're a bookworm, and you're
thinking that you know everything. Well Pal, you are in for a rude
awakening. So being the person you think you are make you wise
or perfect? Your attitude stinks so bad until you can't stand your
self no doult, and coming online faking makes you a self-appointed
hero huh?

I bet you are one of them Black haters huh?, but I bet you try to
dress Black,think Black, and even go so far to look Black. Get Real
dude, this is the internet, and nobody really give a f**k about you
or what you think.

[PoliticalMessager]

Typical. Lots of bluster, no substance.

Is that all you know? You are a example of today's racial hater with
your internet smart ass. You are so busy judging others until you
can't see your own ignorant mistakes. I am sure that the person or
people who created these messager boards did not start them for
assholes like you to ruin.

I was on another political forum site when I read a post from the
OPGHostdog concerning how you totally dis respect him, and yet
you are not woman enough to take the heat back.

On these boards there is some real serious issues discussed, but
its narrow minded people like you who think you know everything,
and really don't no ****. Substances? Where is your substances Ms
Mighty Whitey?

You seem to be a (wannabe0 educator on Islam and Muslims,
why you never talk about the wrong doing that's happening
here in America? Like someone say you do violate the TOS codes,
but you do it in a smooth way, and that's why you haven't been
put on the ice ban yet.

Since you know everything why don't you create your own
www (forum) site? As long as you are allowed to get away
with your nonsenses you will always be one of the problems
on here.

I have read every one of your posts regarding this topic, and
they show no Substances concerning Islam or Muslims. Which
I agree with OPGhostdog, you must fall to sleep reading books
about Islam, and I bet you watch CNN,Fox Cable to get your
information you post.

In closing, It appears that you are a smart mouth behind the
computer screen, but you have met your match (me), and as
long as you keep **** going I can give it back.:mad:

[9sublime]

When an abortion clinic is bombed in name of Christianity, there is immediate ringing condemnation throughout the entire faith and that individual is renounced and ostracized from the community -- not hailed as martyrs in their ongoing war against the West.

This is something you and Palerider have convinced yourself happens at a really bad level. Muslims do, always, condemn attacks, but just not all of them. You wouldn't be happy until every Muslim in the entire world stood and apologised on live TV at the same time. But its OK for one or two high profile figures to condemn an attack in the name of Christianity?

[jb_1430]

I was on another political forum site when I read a post from the
OPGHostdog concerning how you totally dis respect him, and yet
you are not woman enough to take the heat back.


Im right here, ready for any "heat" you and your boyfriend think you might be able to come up with.



On these boards there is some real serious issues discussed, but
its narrow minded people like you who think you know everything,
and really don't no ****. Substances? Where is your substances Ms
Mighty Whitey?

I have read every one of your posts regarding this topic, and
they show no Substances concerning Islam or Muslims. Which
I agree with OPGhostdog, you must fall to sleep reading books
about Islam, and I bet you watch CNN,Fox Cable to get your
information you post.


Here is the substance, JUST from this thread. All of it from Muslims, none of it from CNN or Fox. And in the same thread you and ghost dog have presented... NOTHING! other than the silly thoughts bouncing around in your own heads. Like Ive said, typical, lots of bluster, absolutely no substance whatsoever.


Ibn Khaldoon
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~luqman/Belief/Khilafah/one.html

Hassan al-Banna
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Brotherhood

Sayyid Qutb
http://www.youngmuslims.ca/online_library/books/milestones/hold/chapter_4.asp

Anjem Choudary
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=56503

The Koran
http://quod.lib.umich.edu/k/koran/

Haddiths
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/reference/searchhadith.html

Aasim al-Maqdisi
http://www.islamicthinkers.com/index/files/books/aqeedah/Democracy%20-%20%20A%20Religion.pdf

Sidi Haji Abdul Rahman Adja
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/london200512160955.asp

Bin Laden
http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/docs/980223-fatwa.htm

[PoliticalMessager]

jb_1430. Go play with yourself little boy. There is NOTHING
you post interest me..(What you don't understand)? Damn.
I blame these so-called moderators for allowing you to
harrass other posters with your bull****. Then IF someone
was to get in your ass they get banned.

I realize that you do have a series of mental issues, due to
the fact that if you did not have a problem your attitude
would be far better, and as long as you are in denail I feel
sorry for you.

Your bull****ting replies don't have any solid meaning to it.
My 3 year old grandbaby's talk is more matured then your
posts, and all you do is pick pick pick post something that
makes sense. Ghostdog warned me that you're a ignorant
f***, and the only way to deal with you is to put you on
ignore (That's where you are going) So By Cupcake ;)

[9sublime]

Ghostdog, you never had to respond to his posts. Hes not harrasing you if you choose to answer of your own free will. You are the one swearing and telling him to play with himself, so it is you, if anyone, who is breaking the rules.

[PoliticalMessager]

Ghostdog, you never had to respond to his posts. Hes not harrasing you if you choose to answer of your own free will. You are the one swearing and telling him to play with himself, so it is you, if anyone, who is breaking the rules.

Thank You 9Sub for your info, but I have him on quiet anyway,
and that's the best feature the H.O.P have.

[jb_1430]

Yeah, you and ghostdog are a fine representation of the Islamic mind.


jb_1430. Go play with yourself little boy. There is NOTHING
you post interest me..(What you don't understand)? Damn.
I blame these so-called moderators for allowing you to
harrass other posters with your bull****. Then IF someone
was to get in your ass they get banned.

I realize that you do have a series of mental issues, due to
the fact that if you did not have a problem your attitude
would be far better, and as long as you are in denail I feel
sorry for you.

Your bull****ting replies don't have any solid meaning to it.
My 3 year old grandbaby's talk is more matured then your
posts, and all you do is pick pick pick post something that
makes sense. Ghostdog warned me that you're a ignorant
f***, and the only way to deal with you is to put you on
ignore (That's where you are going) So By Cupcake ;)

[9sublime]

Jb, I could say the same about you being the perfect example of an anti-Muslim person. I hate organized religion, but I accept that just like Christians, a hell of a lot of Muslims are very decent people. You have an underlying hate for all of them which you try and disguise but everyone can see it.

[jb_1430]

Jb, I could say the same about you being the perfect example of an anti-Muslim person. I hate organized religion, but I accept that just like Christians, a hell of a lot of Muslims are very decent people. You have an underlying hate for all of them which you try and disguise but everyone can see it.

Revealing how my posting of Islamic scripture and Islamic writings are interpreted as "hate". Says more about your perception of those writings than it does about my sentiments towards muslims.
And if you interpret my comment about ghostdog and political messenger being a fine representation of the Islamic mind, as hate, that says more about your opinion of those two, than it does about my sentiments towards muslims.
If you want to discuss the issues, jump in. I am not the issue so %#&*! OFF

[jb_1430]

Ghostdog, you never had to respond to his posts. Hes not harrasing you if you choose to answer of your own free will. You are the one swearing and telling him to play with himself, so it is you, if anyone, who is breaking the rules.

And the next time you are complaining that I am breaking the rules, I'll be refering to this diatribe from political messenger that you couldnt bring yourself to identify as a "breaking of the rules"

[9sublime]

What?? I was telling political messenger he was breaking the rules! Chill your beans.

[jb_1430]

What?? I was telling political messenger he was breaking the rules! Chill your beans.

Nope, you said-
"it is you, IF ANYONE, who is breaking the rules."
you suggested the possibility but just couldnt bring yourself to actually accuse him of breaking the rules. But I understand, you whiney left wing moonbats always stick together. Most groups dont appoint your type to be moderater for this very reason.

[vyo476]

Mark, we've been over this a dozen times. Every time you drag out the Qu'ran and all those crazies who think it justifies terrorism, we admit, yes, it's a religious document, it can be interpreted that way. We then haul out the Bible and all the crazies who think that it justifies the Crusades, the Inquisition, the Age of Religious Warfare, or even genocide in the 20th Century. You say that those people are stretching; you don't believe what they have to say is true because you have made up your mind on it. We don't believe what you have to say because we've made up our minds on Islam.

Remember what Winston Churchill said: "A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."

Case closed.

[9sublime]

Nope, you said-
"it is you, IF ANYONE, who is breaking the rules."
you suggested the possibility but just couldnt bring yourself to actually accuse him of breaking the rules. But I understand, you whiney left wing moonbats always stick together. Most groups dont appoint your type to be moderater for this very reason.

Mark, I prefer a hands off approach to moderating. If you want to make lame comparisons to my political standing to try and make yourself look clever, go for it, but I really couldn't care less. I don't think telling someone to play with themselves is worthy of an infraction... do you? What do you mean left wing moonbats stick together? The right wing favours other right wingers, just as the left wing does. Its like you think they're two different species.

If you don't like the moderation on this board so much that you have to complain, maybe its not the right forum for you.

[jb_1430]

Mark, I prefer ....

Blah blah blah

You're the mental problem.

Your attitude stinks so bad until you can't stand your
self no doult, and coming online faking makes you a self-appointed
hero huh?

Bet you are one of them Black haters huh?,

Get Real dude, this is the internet, and nobody really give a f**k about you
or what you think.

You are a example of today's racial hater with your internet smart ass.

You can't see your own ignorant mistakes. I am sure that the person or
people who created these messager boards did not start them for
assholes like you to ruin.

And yet you are not woman enough to take the heat back.

Its narrow minded people like you who think you know everything,
and really don't no ****. Substances? Where is your substances Ms
Mighty Whitey?

I realize that you do have a series of mental issues.

Your bull****ting replies don't have any solid meaning to it.
My 3 year old grandbaby's talk is more matured then your
posts.

[vyo476]

Blah blah blah

You're the mental problem.

Your attitude stinks so bad until you can't stand your
self no doult, and coming online faking makes you a self-appointed
hero huh?

Bet you are one of them Black haters huh?,

Get Real dude, this is the internet, and nobody really give a f**k about you
or what you think.

You are a example of today's racial hater with your internet smart ass.

You can't see your own ignorant mistakes. I am sure that the person or
people who created these messager boards did not start them for
assholes like you to ruin.

And yet you are not woman enough to take the heat back.

Its narrow minded people like you who think you know everything,
and really don't no ****. Substances? Where is your substances Ms
Mighty Whitey?

I realize that you do have a series of mental issues.

Your bull****ting replies don't have any solid meaning to it.
My 3 year old grandbaby's talk is more matured then your
posts.

Did you happen to report any of these infractions when they occurred, Mark?

[vyo476]

Uh, 9sub? Those are all things that Ghostdog said to jb.

[9sublime]

OK. I just made a complete fool out of myself.

[jb_1430]

Did you happen to report any of these infractions when they occurred, Mark?

Why in the world would I ever want some whiney moderater sticking his nose in my own business? Sublime has warned me on other threads for much less than this. I was making a comment about that. Not that I needed him to shoo away our two muslim friends. The more they are allowed to speak out, the easier my case is made.

[9sublime]

OK Mark whatever, all I want to do is keep the forum a decent place for discussion. Sorry if you consider me whiney or intrusive, but its not like you've been banned or anything before.

[PoliticalMessager]

OK Mark whatever, all I want to do is keep the forum a decent place for discussion. Sorry if you consider me whiney or intrusive, but its not like you've been banned or anything before.

9Sub, Thanks for helping me to realize that two wrongs don't
make a right, and you are correct about I was breaking rules
also. However, again, I have accepted what you said, and I
apologize for my childish behavior.

Its also good that others (including) yourself is pointing out
to the other half of the problem that they're also breaking
the rules, and they are lucky to have gotten away this long.

As of this moment my ignore feature is working just fine,and
this way I can compose myself too.

[vyo476]

Why in the world would I ever want some whiney moderater sticking his nose in my own business? Sublime has warned me on other threads for much less than this. I was making a comment about that. Not that I needed him to shoo away our two muslim friends. The more they are allowed to speak out, the easier my case is made.

The portion of his post that you quoted confused me. But whatever. It doesn't matter.

[jb_1430]

The portion of his post that you quoted confused me. But whatever. It doesn't matter.


Just demonstrating that its not the words that give rise to a violation of the rules. But instead who they are coming from.

[9sublime]

Nobody has recieved any kind of infraction because so far I haven't seen either of you be worse than the other. There were times when either of you could have got one, but neither of you have to stop whinging.

[Shoey]

I'm still in awe of how this is "The religion of peace" If you wish to associate all muslims with this **** that the islamic extremists are doing, then I hereby proclaim all christians are a threat since some blew up an abortion clinic. Stop the stereotyping. The ratio of peaceful muslims to extremists in islam is likely on par with the ratio of violent christians to non violent (note that islam has many many more followers than christianity and thus more extremists are to be expected if the ratios are similar) While I'm speaking completely without base, so are you. This is derogatory and inflammatory and as a mod I believe you should try and stay focused on at least being somewhat servile to the Terms of Service.

How many radical christian terrorist attacks since 9/11?

[Castle]

How many radical christian terrorist attacks since 9/11?
I almost fell out of my chair when I saw r0beph's post. Can people really find ways to choke down this twisted reality? Wow.

There were 16,791 Iraqi civilians killed by Islamic terrorists in 2006. They even kill their own in mass. again.....wow.

-Castle

[Invayne]

LMAO!!! There's an apologist in every crowd.:rolleyes:

[Coyote]

I almost fell out of my chair when I saw r0beph's post. Can people really find ways to choke down this twisted reality? Wow.

There were 16,791 Iraqi civilians killed by Islamic terrorists in 2006. They even kill their own in mass. again.....wow.

-Castle


I'm not sure if you're aware of this or not but there's a civil war going over there...and that probably accounts for all of those numbers.

It's convenient to label it "terrorism" but intellectually dishonest.

[Castle]

I'm not sure if you're aware of this or not but there's a civil war going over there...and that probably accounts for all of those numbers.

It's convenient to label it "terrorism" but intellectually dishonest.

Ahh I see. So that changes everything. We call it something else and this absolves them of any responsibility. Strange that this approach never works with you guys when its our troops and the topic is collateral damage.

now thats convenience.

-Castle

[bewitched]

I'm not sure if you're aware of this or not but there's a civil war going over there...and that probably accounts for all of those numbers.

It's convenient to label it "terrorism" but intellectually dishonest.

there is not a civil war going on in Iraq.

[Coyote]

Ahh I see. So that changes everything. We call it something else and this absolves them of any responsibility. Strange that this approach never works with you guys when its our troops and the topic is collateral damage.

now thats convenience.

-Castle

Call it something else? What is terrorism anymore? It's ceased to have any coherent meaning. How do you define terrorism within the context of a war? It becomes an exercise in the ridiculous.


Who is "you guys" and what exactly is "this approach"?

[Coyote]

there is not a civil war going on in Iraq.


Oh. Pardon me. Perhaps someone can tell this to the Iraqis :)

[bewitched]

Oh. Pardon me. Perhaps someone can tell this to the Iraqis :)

perhaps misinformation is something that is believable to some. Iraqis are either fighting with the US or against the US. that's not a civil war.
dar ul Harb is any cooperation with the US, making Iraqis part of the side of the enemy, not a civil dispute. the rules are very clear.

[bewitched]

Call it something else? What is terrorism anymore? It's ceased to have any coherent meaning. How do you define terrorism within the context of a war? It becomes an exercise in the ridiculous.


Who is "you guys" and what exactly is "this approach"?

you can find the clear precise definition at the DHS site.