Would you consider this hate speech?

[USMC the Almighty]

“Muslims are the vilest of animals…”

“Show mercy to one another, but be ruthless to Muslims”

“How perverse are Muslims!”

“Strike off the heads of Muslims, as well as their fingertips”

“Fight those Muslims who are near to you”

“Muslim mischief makers should be murdered or crucified”

[saggyjones]

Yes, of course. Would you?

[USMC the Almighty]

Yes, of course. Would you?

Absolutely.

[Segep]

It's ignorant speech, for sure.

[9sublime]

Yes, why do you ask? Is it Koran quotes with the name of infidel changed to Muslim or something?

[palerider]

“Muslims are the vilest of animals…”

“Show mercy to one another, but be ruthless to Muslims”

“How perverse are Muslims!”

“Strike off the heads of Muslims, as well as their fingertips”

“Fight those Muslims who are near to you”

“Muslim mischief makers should be murdered or crucified”

Replace "muslim" with Christian and you have quotes from the qur'an and the marching orders of the islamists.

[9sublime]

I'm sharp today then.

[USMC the Almighty]

Replace "muslim" with Christian and you have quotes from the qur'an and the marching orders of the islamists.

Considering this, do you all now acknowledge that the Koran is full of nothing more than hate speech?

[heyjude]

Are you certain those are exact quotes from the koran? I only question the spelling because it is English spelling. I would like to hear the exact words from the koran that tell Islamists to kill Christians.

If in fact, these are merely interpations of individuals, or opinions of individuals, I will suggest that Christians do not go there. Even a brief gilmpse of Christian history, and the words of individual Christians today would make such an argument futile.

[USMC the Almighty]

Are you certain those are exact quotes from the koran? I only question the spelling because it is English spelling. I would like to hear the exact words from the koran that tell Islamists to kill Christians.

If in fact, these are merely interpations of individuals, or opinions of individuals, I will suggest that Christians do not go there. Even a brief gilmpse of Christian history, and the words of individual Christians today would make such an argument futile.

Sura (8:55) - Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve

Sura (48:29) - Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves

Sura (9:30) - And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah... Allah (Himself) fights against them. How perverse are they!

Sura (8:12) - I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them

Sura (9:123) - O you who believe! Fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness

Sura (5:33) - The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement

BTW -- I'm not Christian

[heyjude]

I told you not to go there. Read your bible.

[mustardayonnaise]

Considering this, do you all now acknowledge that the Koran is full of nothing more than hate speech?

Well, that's hardly the entire text of the Koran, is it? Have you ever read the Bible?

[jb_1430]

Well, that's hardly the entire text of the Koran, is it? Have you ever read the Bible?
No comparison, Not even close. The Koran is full of commandments of violence for the Muslims in the present. Bible is full of stories of occurences in the past.

[vyo476]

No comparison, Not even close. The Koran is full of commandments of violence for the Muslims in the present. Bible is full of stories of occurences in the past.

Oh, yes. It says right there in the Qu'ran - Muslims of the 21st Century, go kill Americans!

The Qu'ran is a historical document that shows what Muslims were told to do by their God - hundreds of years ago. Today, Muslims use the Qu'ran as a guide. Notice the word "use." They choose to make use of the Qu'ran's texts as they will. Some favor strict, word by word adherence. Some favor looser interpretations. How the greater Islamic community views the Qu'ran isn't so different from how the greater American community views the Constitution - some favor strict construction, some favor loose construction.

[mustardayonnaise]

No comparison, Not even close. The Koran is full of commandments of violence for the Muslims in the present. Bible is full of stories of occurences in the past.


If you mean that to imply that Islam is inherently more violent than Christianity, think again. The Bible is full of stories of the past, but also instructions for the present and predictions for the future. I sample just a few here:

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

"I will sweep away everything in all your land," says the LORD. "I will sweep away both people and animals alike. Even the birds of the air and the fish in the sea will die. I will reduce the wicked to heaps of rubble, along with the rest of humanity," says the LORD. "I will crush Judah and Jerusalem with my fist and destroy every last trace of their Baal worship. I will put an end to all the idolatrous priests, so that even the memory of them will disappear. For they go up to their roofs and bow to the sun, moon, and stars. They claim to follow the LORD, but then they worship Molech, too. So now I will destroy them! And I will destroy those who used to worship me but now no longer do. They no longer ask for the LORD's guidance or seek my blessings." (Zephaniah 1:2-6 NLT)

[jb_1430]

If you mean that to imply that Islam is inherently more violent than Christianity, think again. The Bible is full of stories of the past, but also instructions for the present and predictions for the future. I sample just a few here:

(Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
(Leviticus 20:27 NAB)
(2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
(Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)
(Zephaniah 1:2-6 NLT)

Your reliance on the OLD testament, avoidance of the NEW testament and even using the Torah with the verse from Zephaniah, kind of demonstrates my point.

[Mare Tranquillity]

Considering this, do you all now acknowledge that the Koran is full of nothing more than hate speech?

Do you really expect people to make an informed decision about the whole Koran on the basis of the 47 words you posted that supposedly came out of it? You didn't quote the scriptures, why?

Do you suppose that a person could find 47 words in the Bible that would be pretty hateful?

[Mare Tranquillity]

Sura (8:55) - Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve

Sura (48:29) - Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves

Sura (9:30) - And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah... Allah (Himself) fights against them. How perverse are they!

Sura (8:12) - I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them

Sura (9:123) - O you who believe! Fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness

Sura (5:33) - The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement

BTW -- I'm not Christian

The quotes you posted were subjected to "spin". Thanks so much, Christian or not, this gives us a glimpse into you.

[ArmChair General]

Anyone seen the debate between Reza Aslan (Muslim), and Sam Harris (Atheist), about this very topic?


Its a great one. I personally think Sam won, but Reza did a great job explaining Islam.


You can find it on youtube if your interested.

[jb_1430]

The quotes you posted were subjected to "spin". Thanks so much, Christian or not, this gives us a glimpse into you.

The quotes were altered to demonstrate a point that flew about a thousand feet over your head.

[jb_1430]

Oh, yes. It says right there in the Qu'ran - Muslims of the 21st Century, go kill Americans!

The Qu'ran is a historical document that shows what Muslims were told to do by their God - hundreds of years ago.


?????? "UNTIL NO ONE BUT ALLAH IS WORSHIPPED"

Bin Laden

"But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war)"; and peace be upon our Prophet, Muhammad Bin-'Abdallah, who said: I have been sent with the sword between my hands to ensure that no one but Allah is worshipped, Allah who put my livelihood under the shadow of my spear and who inflicts humiliation and scorn on those who disobey my orders.
...
This is in accordance with the words of Almighty Allah, "and fight the pagans all together as they fight you all together," and "fight them until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah."
http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/docs/980223-fatwa.htm




5. Then when the Sacred Months (the Ist, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islâmic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikûn (see V.2:105) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each and every ambush. But if they repent and perform As-Salât (Iqâmat-as-Salât), and give Zakât, then leave their way free. Verily, Allâh is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.[]
http://www.ummah.net/what-is-islam/quran/noble/nobe009.htm#5




Volume 1, Book 8, Number 387:
Narrated Anas bin Malik:

Allah's Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.' And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally and their reckoning will be with Allah."




39. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allâh) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allâh Alone [in the whole of the world[]]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allâh), then certainly, Allâh is All-Seer of what they do.[]
http://www.ummah.net/what-is-islam/quran/noble/nobe008.htm#39

[Mare Tranquillity]

The quotes were altered to demonstrate a point that flew about a thousand feet over your head.

Baloney, the quote by USMC vs the quotes from the Koran were strikingly different in meaning and intent. One could take scripture from the Bible and do the exact same thing by changing the object of discussion.

This highlights the problem of trying to live one's life by the obscure, anachronistic, and contradictory things written in old books without actually thinking about how the world has changed in the last couple of thousand years. Not just the Bible, but all the old books.

[jb_1430]

This highlights the problem of trying to live one's life by the obscure, anachronistic, and contradictory things written in old books without actually thinking about how the world has changed in the last couple of thousand years. Not just the Bible, but all the old books.

Well, I think that was his point regarding Islamic doctrine. I dont really see a similiar "problem" resulting from the Christian bible. Even the jihad on abortion clinics seems to have passed. And even they would be hardpressed to support their actions with scripture. And Christianity doesnt have a requirement that no one but Jesus be worshiped OR a Christian caliphate to rule the world OR the law to be imposed.

[mustardayonnaise]

Your reliance on the OLD testament, avoidance of the NEW testament and even using the Torah with the verse from Zephaniah, kind of demonstrates my point.

Is the Old Testament part of the bible or not? Do you discount the authority of the Old Testament? Seems Jesus wouldn't be too happy with you...

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. Matt. 5.17

[mustardayonnaise]

Well, I think that was his point regarding Islamic doctrine. I dont really see a similiar "problem" resulting from the Christian bible. Even the jihad on abortion clinics seems to have passed. And even they would be hardpressed to support their actions with scripture. And Christianity doesnt have a requirement that no one but Jesus be worshiped OR a Christian caliphate to rule the world OR the law to be imposed.

If you're a trinitarian, it's called the First Commandment. For non-trinitarians, try
John 14:6 - 'Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

[jb_1430]

If you're a trinitarian, it's called the First Commandment. For non-trinitarians, try
John 14:6 - 'Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

Your demonstrating my point. That invites the individual to take the path "to the father". The other is an instruction to the believers to kill the non believers if they dont take the path.

[mustardayonnaise]

Your demonstrating my point. That invites the individual to take the path "to the father". The other is an instruction to the believers to kill the non believers if they dont take the path.


The point I'm making is that yes, Christianity does have a commandment to worship Jesus alone. That and that anyone can isolate violent and hateful passages from either the Koran or the Bible and make it seem like that's all the book contains, but to do this is simply dishonest.

[jb_1430]

The point I'm making is that yes, Christianity does have a commandment to worship Jesus alone. That and that anyone can isolate violent and hateful passages from either the Koran or the Bible and make it seem like that's all the book contains, but to do this is simply dishonest.

Never said anything about what "all the book contains", and my point is there simply is no comparison.
But carry on with the hear no evil...see no evil...speak no evil bit.

[vyo476]

?????? "UNTIL NO ONE BUT ALLAH IS WORSHIPPED"

Historical documents can be misleading. Remember that one we wrote a few hundred years ago with the line, "All men are created equal," when our government still condoned and supported a legal slave system?

[vyo476]

The quotes were altered to demonstrate a point that flew about a thousand feet over your head.

No, we got the point. Social conservatism is based in oversimplification, so it was pretty easy to understand. Our points are the ones that are flying over your head, as evidenced by the fact that all you seem capable of doing is posting quotes from the Qu'ran and the men who use it for violence, and pretending that a few poached quotes from an interpretative document and the violent interpretations of the outspoken terrorists constitutes an empirical argument against an entire religion.

[jb_1430]

No, we got the point. Social conservatism is based in oversimplification, so it was pretty easy to understand. Our points are the ones that are flying over your head, as evidenced by the fact that all you seem capable of doing is posting quotes from the Qu'ran and the men who use it for violence, and pretending that a few poached quotes from an interpretative document and the violent interpretations of the outspoken terrorists constitutes an empirical argument against an entire religion.

Hmmm??? Question was posed regarding "speech". Specific text from the "Koran". I included a passage from the "haddiths" and made comments regarding "doctrine". It "constitutes an empirical argument against" those specific texts from the "Koran" and "haddiths" which make up Islamic "doctrine". YOU interpret any criticism of the doctrine as an attack on the "entire religion", which YOU interpret to be an attack on a billion Muslims.
Nothing but the typical political correctness, cultural relativism, not good and bad but just different, bull shiite.
But carry on with the hear no evil...see no evil...speak no evil bit.

[jb_1430]

"All men are created equal,"

"UNTIL NO ONE BUT ALLAH IS WORSHIPPED"

Yeah, not good or bad, just different. (sarcasm)

[invest07]

If you have ever read the Koran, you would have to reach the conclusion first of all that:

1. Muhammed was a megalomaniac.
2. Muhammed contradicted himself every other page. Many surrahs are borderline incoherent, rambling and change topics frequently.
3. Muhammed hated women and further was a world class sex pervert.
4. Muhammed was on a power trip demanding to be referred to as "the Prophet" so many times. No other Biblical prophet made such a demand.
5. Muhammed did not believe in free will, personal freedom or democracy.
6. Muhammed did believe in slavery and third class citizen status for women.
7. Muhammed was downright afraid of women.
8. Muhammed was indeed the forerunner of Hitler as he believed in world domination by the sword.

Islam is a sick and twisted belief system and the Islamic fascist terrorists are truly representative of the teachings of muhammed.