Vince Foster was murdered by the Clintons - the evidence you never saw

[Truth-Bringer]

Vince Foster was murdered. There is plenty of evidence to prove a cover up. The details are here. (http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/FOSTER_COVERUP/foster.html)

The main piece of evidence is the handwriting analysis on the "suicide" note that most people have simply never seen. The government says that the park police and the FBI did a handwriting analysis and confirmed the suicide note was Vince Foster's. Problem is, they both only analyzed one piece of writing. That's a violation of all forms of handwriting analysis, not to mention the FBI's own procedures. Also, the park police officer who did their analysis wasn't even trained or qualified to do so!

Yes, the man who paid for private analysis by 3 highly reputable experts was a conservative, but again, compare the experience of the 3 men below with what the park police and the FBI did. Bottom line, if that note was a forgery, that means it had to be murder:

"The fabrication of a "suicide" note by high officials, is just one more indication that Vincent Foster did not commit suicide.

With us today are our expert panel whose reports you have copies of, as well as the torn note, and a set of known documents written by Vincent Foster.

Mr. Reginald E. Alton, from Oxford Univeristy, has flown in for this conference. He is a world-recognized expert on handwriting and manuscript authentication. For 30 years he has lectured at Oxford on handwriting, and has engaged in forensic document examination.

Recently he ruled on the authenticity of C.S. Lewis's Diaries. He has been consulted by British police authorities and has testified in British courts on both criminal and civil matters involving questioned documents.

He has determined the note to be a forgery.

Mr. Vincent Scalice, is formerly a homicide expert with the New York City Police Department. He is a certified Questioned Document Examiner with the American Board of Forensic Examiners. He has 22 years experience as a document examiner, and has worked for some of the country¹s largest institutions in this capacity, for example Citicorp and Chemical Bank.

He has determined the note to be a forgery.

Mr. Ronald Rice has 18 years experience performing civil, criminal and forensic handwriting examination. He is a consultant to the Massachusetts Attorney General's office. He has examined documents on a number of celebrated cases, and recently was asked by CNN to examine notes written by O.J. Simpson.

He too has determined the note to be a forgery.

Three experts--70 years of combined forensic examination experience--conclude forgery.

Both the Park Police and later the FBI determined the note to have been written by Mr. Foster.

But look more closely. The Capitol Police handwriting expert compared the so-called Foster note to only one document--which is not in keeping with a proper and complete examination. We learn today from Mr. Christopher Ruddy, the reporter from the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, the the Park Police used the services of [a] Sergeant from the Capitol Police who has never been certified as a document examiner.

Later the FBI, and former Special Counsel Robert Fiske reports, found the note to have been written by Foster, again by comparing it to a single document and several checks written by Foster. Like so much of the duplicity in the Fiske report, we learn that the checks proved an inconclusive match to the note. The FBI violated standard forensic procedures to match the document.

Former FBI Director William Sessions has charged that his firing the day before Foster's death led to a "compromised" investigation into the death."

The details of their handwriting analysis reports - which have NEVER been questioned as being inaccurate - are here (http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/FOSTER_COVERUP/NOTE/note.html)

[Coyote]

This has long been debunked. The Clinton body count, the Bush body count, yada, yada, yada. Someone should move this to conspiracy theories.

[Truth-Bringer]

This has long been debunked. The Clinton body count, the Bush body count, yada, yada, yada. Someone should move this to conspiracy theories.


LOL. You need to open your eyes.

For the record, I don't agree with everything in the Clinton body count. Most of it is reaching. However, the facts on Vince Foster's death are irrefutable.

There were plenty of people who claimed Foster was not depressed and was not suicidal. Even Hillary said she noticed nothing different about his personality. (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=33668)

All of the independent investigators stated Foster's death was a suicide, but there are problems with all of their stories. Look, you really need to read the information on the link I provided:

"The Fiske Report.

Robert Fiske was the first Independent Council appointed to investigate the Whitewater scandal. For a variety of reasons, including his past association with BCCI (a failed bank involved with the laundering of drug money), Fiske was considered by many unsuitable to investigate the various failed S&L in the Whitewater affair (many of which also appear to have been involved with the laundering of drug money) and Fiske was eventually replaced by Kenneth Starr.

The Preliminary Report On Vincent Foster by Robert Fiske. (see my first link for this link)

Note that Fiske's report was only preliminary. His final report on Vincent Foster remains sealed. When the Wall Street Journal filed a Freedom Of Information Act request to force the release of Fiske's final report, the court, in an unprecedented prior restraint, ordered the Wall Street Journal not to report on the case, or to even mention what the final ruling actually was.

This illegal prior restraint is one of the indicators, which reveals how terrified the government is of the facts behind the death of Vincent Foster."

Simple questions - how do you explain the analysis done by the handwriting experts with over 70 years of experience and impeccable credentials on the suicide note that conflicts with the analysis done by law enforcement? You don't think Clinton firing FBI director Sessions one day before Foster's death was the least bit suspicious?

[Coyote]

The problem is you don't have a lot of "facts"...you have a lot of opinions and some inconsistencies, but that in itself is not enough to indicate murder. I truely think it's reaching a bit too far.

[USMC the Almighty]

I'm certainly no fan of Clinton, but this is a conspiracy theory.

[bokile]

I hope Clintons die while suffering great pains this people had been killed by Klintons

http://www.children.org.yu/english/images/victims/milica.jpg

http://www.serbia-info.com/g3/images/batajnica3.jpg

http://www.dr-jurjevic.org/img/milica-rakic-3.jpg

she became saint

http://www.srpska.ru/articles/1499/Milica-Rakic.jpg

[bokile]

more crimes by Clintons

http://slobodnasrpska.org/slike/mrtvi_opomena/index.jpg

http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/1027/1natodestruction1npazar053ir4.jpg

http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/2150/3natodestruction9npazar053hg6.jpg

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[top gun]

Vince Foster was murdered. There is plenty of evidence to prove a cover up. The details are here. (http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/FOSTER_COVERUP/foster.html)

The main piece of evidence is the handwriting analysis on the "suicide" note that most people have simply never seen. The government says that the park police and the FBI did a handwriting analysis and confirmed the suicide note was Vince Foster's. Problem is, they both only analyzed one piece of writing. That's a violation of all forms of handwriting analysis, not to mention the FBI's own procedures. Also, the park police officer who did their analysis wasn't even trained or qualified to do so!

Yes, the man who paid for private analysis by 3 highly reputable experts was a conservative, but again, compare the experience of the 3 men below with what the park police and the FBI did. Bottom line, if that note was a forgery, that means it had to be murder:

"The fabrication of a "suicide" note by high officials, is just one more indication that Vincent Foster did not commit suicide.

With us today are our expert panel whose reports you have copies of, as well as the torn note, and a set of known documents written by Vincent Foster.

Mr. Reginald E. Alton, from Oxford Univeristy, has flown in for this conference. He is a world-recognized expert on handwriting and manuscript authentication. For 30 years he has lectured at Oxford on handwriting, and has engaged in forensic document examination.

Recently he ruled on the authenticity of C.S. Lewis's Diaries. He has been consulted by British police authorities and has testified in British courts on both criminal and civil matters involving questioned documents.

He has determined the note to be a forgery.

Mr. Vincent Scalice, is formerly a homicide expert with the New York City Police Department. He is a certified Questioned Document Examiner with the American Board of Forensic Examiners. He has 22 years experience as a document examiner, and has worked for some of the country¹s largest institutions in this capacity, for example Citicorp and Chemical Bank.

He has determined the note to be a forgery.

Mr. Ronald Rice has 18 years experience performing civil, criminal and forensic handwriting examination. He is a consultant to the Massachusetts Attorney General's office. He has examined documents on a number of celebrated cases, and recently was asked by CNN to examine notes written by O.J. Simpson.

He too has determined the note to be a forgery.

Three experts--70 years of combined forensic examination experience--conclude forgery.

Both the Park Police and later the FBI determined the note to have been written by Mr. Foster.

But look more closely. The Capitol Police handwriting expert compared the so-called Foster note to only one document--which is not in keeping with a proper and complete examination. We learn today from Mr. Christopher Ruddy, the reporter from the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, the the Park Police used the services of [a] Sergeant from the Capitol Police who has never been certified as a document examiner.

Later the FBI, and former Special Counsel Robert Fiske reports, found the note to have been written by Foster, again by comparing it to a single document and several checks written by Foster. Like so much of the duplicity in the Fiske report, we learn that the checks proved an inconclusive match to the note. The FBI violated standard forensic procedures to match the document.

Former FBI Director William Sessions has charged that his firing the day before Foster's death led to a "compromised" investigation into the death."

The details of their handwriting analysis reports - which have NEVER been questioned as being inaccurate - are here (http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/FOSTER_COVERUP/NOTE/note.html)

Oh pleeeeeease!

9-11 The twin towers @ the World Trade Center blown up on Bush's watch... Bill Clinton's fault.

Invading Iraq on Bush's "knowingly false" information... Hillary Clinton's fault.

Vince Foster's suicide............. Why not... Bill, Hillary and Chelsea's fault.

Couldn't find my shoes this morning... Oh, I've got it! Must be Socks the Clinton's cat's fault!!!!!!!!

God I hope Buddy the Clinton's dog ain't out robbing a bank somewhere today!
STOP IT! It's ridiculous!

[Coyote]

I hope Clintons die while suffering great pains this people had been killed by Klintons



Wasn't this while you guys were so busy butchering your fellow countrymen?

[bokile]

Wasn't this while you guys were so busy butchering your fellow countrymen?

Clinton's crimes...

http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/5066/02001pogledkarusevinamaez2.jpg

http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/7866/532ih0.jpg

http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/9792/51rts4pf1.jpg

http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/5642/53yugo2acz2.jpg

[bokile]

Clinton's war crimes...

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/8059/8vw6.jpg

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/5603/11ww6.jpg

http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/5453/13bk8.jpg

http://www.danas.co.yu/20060428/img/feljton1_2.jpg

[Truth-Bringer]

The problem is you don't have a lot of "facts"...you have a lot of opinions and some inconsistencies, but that in itself is not enough to indicate murder. I truely think it's reaching a bit too far.

Oh, there are indeed facts:

The Looting of Foster's office (http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/FOSTER_COVERUP/foster.html)

"While the U.S. Park Police (a unit not equipped for a proper homicide investigation) studied the body, Foster's office at the White House was being looted. Secret Service agent Henry O' Neill watched as Hillary Clinton's chief of staff, Margaret Williams, carried boxes of papers out of Vincent Foster's office before the Park Police showed up to seal it. Amazing when you consider that the official identification of Vincent Foster's body by Craig Livingstone did not take place until 10PM! Speaking of Craig Livingstone, another Secret Serviceman saw him remove items from Vincent Foster's office in violation of the official seal. Witnesses also saw Bernard Nussbaum in Foster's office as well. Three witnesses noted that Patsy Thomason, director of the White House's Office of Administration, was desperate to find the combination to Vincent Foster's safe. Ms. Thomason finally opened the safe, apparently with the help of a special "MIG" technical team signed into the White House in the late hours. Two envelopes reported to be in the safe by Foster's secretary Deborah Gorham, addressed to Janet Reno and to William Kennedy III, were never seen again. When asked the next day regarding rumors of the safe opening, Mack McLarty told reporters Foster's office did not even have a safe, a claim immediately shot down by former occupants of that office.

The next day, when the Park Police arrived for the official search of Vincent Foster's office, they were shocked to learn that Nussbaum, Thomason and Williams had entered the office. Conflicts channeled through Janet Reno's Department of Justice resulted in the Park Police merely sitting outside Foster's office while Bernard Nussbaum continued his own search of Foster's office. During this search, he opened and upended Vincent Foster's briefcase, showing it to be empty. Three days later, it would be claimed that this same briefcase was where the torn up suicide note was discovered.

The boxes of documents removed from Foster's office by Hillary Clinton's chief of staff, Margaret Williams, was taken to the private residence area of the White House! Eventually, only 54 pages emerged.

One set of billing records, under subpoena for two years, and thought to have originated in Foster's office, turned up unexpectedly in the private quarters of the White House, with Hillary's fingerprints on them!

So, who ordered the office looting?

Bill Clinton was unavailable, being on camera with Larry King. But Hillary Clinton, who had only the day before diverted her planned return to Washington D.C. to Little Rock, was on the phone from Little Rock to someone at the White House in the moments before the looting took place.
The initial reactions
Back in Little Rock, Foster's friends weren't buying it. Doug Buford, friend and attorney, stated, "...something was badly askew." Foster's brother-in-law, a former congressman, also did not accept that depression was what had been behind the "suicide": "That's a bunch of crap." And Webster Hubbell, former Clinton deputy attorney general, phoned a mutual friend to say, "Don't believe a word you hear. It was not suicide. It couldn't have been."

Outside experts not connected the official investigation also had their doubts.

Vincent J. Scalise, a former NYC detective, Fred Santucci, a former forensic photographer for NYC, and Richard Saferstein, former head of the New Jersey State Crime Lab formed a team and did an investigation of the VWF case for the Western Journalism Center of Fair Oaks, Calif. They arrived at several conclusions:

(1) Homicide cannot and should not be ruled out.

(2) The position of the arms and legs of the corpse were drastically inconsistent with suicide.

(3) Neither of VWF's hand was on the handgrip when it was fired. This is also inconsistent with suicide. The investigators noted that in their 50 years of combined experience they had "never seen a weapon or gun positioned in a suicide's hand in such an orderly fashion."

(4) VWF's body was probably in contact with one or more carpets prior to his death. The team was amazed that the carpet in the trunk of VF's care had not been studied to see whether he had been carried to the park in the trunk of his own car.

(5) The force of the gun's discharge probably knocked VF's glasses flying; however, it is "inconceivable" that they could have traveled 13 feet through foliage to the site where they were found; ergo, the scene probably was tampered with.

(6) The lack of blood and brain tissue at the site suggests VF was carried to the scene. The peculiar tracking pattern of the blood on his right cheek also suggests that he was moved.

Despite numerous official assurances that Vincent Foster really did commit suicide, more and more Americans, over 70% at the last count, no longer believe the official story. TV specials, most notably the one put out by A&E's "Inside Investigations" with Bill Kurtis, have failed to answer the lingering questions, indeed have engaged in deliberate fraud to try to dismiss the evidence that points to a cover-up."

[Truth-Bringer]

I'm certainly no fan of Clinton, but this is a conspiracy theory.

No, it is not. You need to open your eyes.

There were plenty of people who claimed Foster was not depressed and was not suicidal. Even Hillary said she noticed nothing different about his personality. (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=33668)

All of the independent investigators stated Foster's death was a suicide, but there are problems with all of their stories. Look, you really need to read the information on the link I provided:

"The Fiske Report.

Robert Fiske was the first Independent Council appointed to investigate the Whitewater scandal. For a variety of reasons, including his past association with BCCI (a failed bank involved with the laundering of drug money), Fiske was considered by many unsuitable to investigate the various failed S&L in the Whitewater affair (many of which also appear to have been involved with the laundering of drug money) and Fiske was eventually replaced by Kenneth Starr.

The Preliminary Report On Vincent Foster by Robert Fiske. (see my first link for this link)

Note that Fiske's report was only preliminary. His final report on Vincent Foster remains sealed. When the Wall Street Journal filed a Freedom Of Information Act request to force the release of Fiske's final report, the court, in an unprecedented prior restraint, ordered the Wall Street Journal not to report on the case, or to even mention what the final ruling actually was.

This illegal prior restraint is one of the indicators, which reveals how terrified the government is of the facts behind the death of Vincent Foster."

Simple questions - how do you explain the analysis done by the handwriting experts with over 70 years of experience and impeccable credentials on the suicide note that conflicts with the analysis done by law enforcement? You don't think Clinton firing FBI director Sessions one day before Foster's death was the least bit suspicious?

[Truth-Bringer]

Oh pleeeeeease!


Oh please? You refuse to look at the facts. Most people were never exposed to the investigative reporting of British journalist Ambrose Evans-Pritchard.

A nation in denial (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=45250)

"British journalist Ambrose Evans-Pritchard is one of the most knowledgeable investigators of the Foster cover-up. The Cambridge-educated Evans-Pritchard is less easily dismissed than many Clinton critics. He covered war-torn Central America for the Economist and the Sunday Telegraph. As the Telegraph's Washington bureau chief from 1992 to 1997, he "was known in Washington for accuracy, industry and courage" in the words of Washington Post pundit Robert Novak.

Evans-Pritchard has commented on the cocoon of denial into which many decent, well-meaning people retreat when their governments go bad. He has seen it in many countries. "You tell the people in San Salvador that their air force is carpet-bombing the campesinos, they say that's impossible," he remarked to New York Times Magazine writer Philip Weiss. Evans-Pritchard saw a similar self-delusion proliferating in Clinton's America."

Again, look at the facts surrounding the death of another close Clinton associate, Jerry Luther Parks:

"Ambrose Evans-Pritchard interviewed the Parks family extensively. In "The Secret Life of Bill Clinton," he reports that Parks was a nervous wreck for the next two months. He packed a gun and drove evasively to shake off any possible pursuers. At one point, Parks told his family that Bill Clinton was "cleaning house" and that he was "next on the list." Parks had been security chief for Clinton-Gore campaign headquarters in Little Rock, Ark., in 1992.

On Sept. 23, 1993, as Parks was driving to his suburban Little Rock home along the Chenal Parkway, a white Chevrolet Caprice with two men inside drove alongside and peppered Parks' car with semiautomatic gunfire. Parks's car ground to a halt. A man emerged from the white Chevy, fired two rounds into Parks' chest with a 9-mm pistol, then sped off.

Several witnesses watched the murder. The killers were never found."

Odd that a security chief for a Presidential campaign headquarters could be blown away on a city street in broad daylight with no one ever found or much less arrested for the crime.

Random killing of a security chief for a Presidential campaign headquarters with no motive and no robbery? Yeah, right... Dry that one out and you can fertilize the lawn with it.

[USMC the Almighty]

No, it is not. You need to open your eyes.

It can be true and still be a conspiracy theory.

[top gun]

[QUOTE=Truth-Bringer;19942]Oh please? You refuse to look at the facts. Most people were never exposed to the investigative reporting of British journalist Ambrose Evans-Pritchard....

Oh double pleeeeease!

Clinton couldn't even hide a consensual adult affair behind closed doors at the White House... but you'd so like to smear him you'd be willing to go along with any conspiracy theory. This is as stupid as those who say Bush had something to do with blowing up the twin towers on 9-11 or those saying the British Secret Police killed Princess Diana.

Everyone would be a lot better off if instead of sensationalist conspiracy theories we spent our time working together to continue to remove the corrupt neo-con Republican machine that has done so much damage since President Clinton.

[palerider]

I would agree. I don't believe foster's "suicide" was a suicide at all. I lean towards clinton involvement but that is because I don't like clinton and genuinely believe that he is a sociopath and no real evidence that he or his had anything to do with it.

The physical and pathological evidence, however, doesn't support suicide.

[Dr.Who]

I'm not a big fan of people who spend all their time trying to find fault with either the Clinton's or the Bush's based on flimsy evidence.

If either were so guilty they would be tried in court. The fact that neither has been brought up on charges should tell us all something.

[bokile]

I'm not a big fan of people who spend all their time trying to find fault with either the Clinton's or the Bush's based on flimsy evidence.

The fact that neither has been brought up on charges should tell us all something.

Clinton was called as a witness to international court in Haag by former Yugoslav president Milosevic, who was killed about two weeks after that. He was held like some animal for many years in jail but nobody could find him guilty at this court. After Clinton was called to testify and I think also general Clark, he was killed.

Clintons crimes, for you all to see...

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/8063/4zz8.jpg

http://img457.imageshack.us/img457/8568/19fw2.jpg

Clintons are helping terrorists to kill Christians.. as you can see...

http://www.freewebs.com/serbia_88/ramush_small.jpg

http://www.freewebs.com/serbia_88/ovkodsgl.jpg

[invest07]

I'm not trying to make light of the blood on Slick Willy J's hands but there is one victim who doesn't get much airplay: Kathleen Willy's cat.

Ms Willy was the victim of a vicious smear campaign that included intimidation, threats, stalking, vandalism, burglaries and the death of her cat. The cat was sacrificed (like the horse's head in the Godfather) as a message to KW. The cats lifeless and mutilated body was left on her front porch.

Another victim of the most corrupt adminstration in US History.

[9sublime]

Its a good tactic to take the mickey rather than debate isnt it.

[Coyote]

Clinton was called as a witness to international court in Haag by former Yugoslav president Milosevic, who was killed about two weeks after that. He was held like some animal for many years in jail but nobody could find him guilty at this court. After Clinton was called to testify and I think also general Clark, he was killed.

Clintons crimes, for you all to see...

Milosevic wasn't "killed".

Milosevic was also responsible for a horrible genocide.

He was treated far better then he treated some of his people.

[Coyote]

I'm not trying to make light of the blood on Slick Willy J's hands but there is one victim who doesn't get much airplay: Kathleen Willy's cat.

Ms Willy was the victim of a vicious smear campaign that included intimidation, threats, stalking, vandalism, burglaries and the death of her cat. The cat was sacrificed (like the horse's head in the Godfather) as a message to KW. The cats lifeless and mutilated body was left on her front porch.

Another victim of the most corrupt adminstration in US History.

You mean Bush did it? I'm not surprised.

[bokile]

Milosevic wasn't "killed".

Milosevic was also responsible for a horrible genocide.

He was treated far better then he treated some of his people.

Genocide? Where at?:eek: Who found him responsible? Clinton?

[TVoffBrainOn]

I would agree. I don't believe foster's "suicide" was a suicide at all. I lean towards clinton involvement but that is because I don't like clinton and genuinely believe that he is a sociopath and no real evidence that he or his had anything to do with it.

The physical and pathological evidence, however, doesn't support suicide.

:eek:
I had to read this twice before i could believe my own eyes. Conspiracies involving the left must be much easier for you to believe.

You are correct the evidence doesnt support suicide

[Truth-Bringer]

Oh double pleeeeease!

Double please? How much of a dweeb does one have to be to use the phrase "double please"?


Clinton couldn't even hide a consensual adult affair behind closed doors at the White House... but you'd so like to smear him you'd be willing to go along with any conspiracy theory.

Clinton didn't actually pull the trigger on this one though... Easier to hide when you're behind the scenes.

The evidence is there. Remember the words of Web Hubbel?:

"Don't believe a word you hear. It was not suicide. It couldn't have been." -Assistant Attorney General Webster Hubbell, 7/20/93, cited in Esquire, 11/93.

Did the primary witness Knowlton have a history of making wild allegations? Is he constantly calling police or other authority figures with these types of stories? No - there is no evidence of such behavior on his part. So if not, odds are he just might be telling the truth. Look, either this person is mentally unstable, or there's something funny going on.

He says he was harrassed by the FBI and other men. The text of his lawsuit is here:

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/FOSTER_COVERUP/KNOWLTON/knowlton.html

Other witnesses were ignored:

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/FOSTER_COVERUP/ignored.html

A Secret Service memo surfaced which said Foster's body had been found in his car!!!!!!!!:

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/FOSTER_COVERUP/MISC/2551.gif

And there were numerous contradictions in the official reports:

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/FOSTER_COVERUP/foster_845.html

[Truth-Bringer]

I'm not a big fan of people who spend all their time trying to find fault with either the Clinton's or the Bush's based on flimsy evidence.

This is not flimsy evidence my friend. Again, the results of those handwriting experts HAS NEVER BEEN REFUTED. No one even tried to discredit the results of their analysis. The media just dropped it like a hot potato because none of them wanted to consider the fact that they could have voted for a murderer.


If either were so guilty they would be tried in court. The fact that neither has been brought up on charges should tell us all something.

Yeah, it tells us you're a complete moron. A President cannot be tried in criminal court. He could simply pardon himself. That's why the impeachment and removal process exists.

[Truth-Bringer]

You are correct the evidence doesnt support suicide

No, it doesn't. The Clintons had a lot of dirty business dealings. Vince Foster did tell people "Whitewater is a can of worms you don't want to open." (http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/FOSTER_COVERUP/foster_whit.html)

We know that Bill Clinton will lie vehemently to the American people and right in our faces too - " I want you to listen to me! (scowl) I did not have sexual relations with that woman!" - and we know he committed ethical violations and was disbarred. We also know he lied under oath and twisted the truth with such gems as "that depends on what the meaning of "is" is..." Why would anyone rush to believe his side of the story about ANYTHING?

[top gun]

Truth-Bringer;20027]Double please? How much of a dweeb does one have to be to use the phrase "double please"?

Dweeb... you're using the word dweeb! Oh triple pleeeease!!!

Instead of wasting our time on ridiculous Clinton is the devil... LoL... conspiracy theories just go back to wasting our time on how Ron Paul is going to be our next president.

Or at the very least post some alien autopsy photos or something a little more genuine. Just a thought.;)

[Truth-Bringer]

Dweeb... you're using the word dweeb!


Well it does describe you perfectly.

Oh triple pleeeease!!!


^^ further evidence that I'm right. ;)

[Dr.Who]

[QUOTE]This is not flimsy evidence my friend. Again, the results of those handwriting experts HAS NEVER BEEN REFUTED. No one even tried to discredit the results of their analysis. The media just dropped it like a hot potato because none of them wanted to consider the fact that they could have voted for a murderer.


Frm. Pres. Clinton had plenty of political enemies in positions of power who would have loved for this to be strong enough to be used against him. But they did not.


Yeah, it tells us you're a complete moron. A President cannot be tried in criminal court. He could simply pardon himself. That's why the impeachment and removal process exists.

I suppose I worded my former post somewhat aggressively. I did not mean to and I apologize. I did not mean that I was the opposite of a fan of yours and I did not want to make it personal. I just meant that conspiracy theories are almost always wrong. As is this one. I very clearly remember the conservative radio stations talking non-stop about this evidence every day and it was never enough to make a case as much as they wanted it and as much as I would have liked to have seen frm. Pres Clinton out of office.

All they succeeded in doing was eroding the public respect for the office of president and setting the tone in which every future president will be mistrusted and held up to scrutiny on allegations that are more political than productive.

I never said he would be tried in a criminal court. An impeachment involves a court, i.e. the senate acts as an impeachment court.

[Truth-Bringer]

Frm. Pres. Clinton had plenty of political enemies in positions of power who would have loved for this to be strong enough to be used against him. But they did not.

Have you seriously sat down and thought about the ramifications of having a sitting President found guilty of murdering a political associate over criminal financial activity that the President and his wife had been involved in?

It could have brought the government down. It definitely could have literally destroyed the Democratic Party. And that's why the charges of "vast right wing conspiracy" surfaced so quickly. To destroy the reputation of any who would question the stories that the Clinton's put forth. So it quickly became an "us against them" battle. And again, what Democrat would want to think that they voted for a murderer? Cognitive Dissonance would prevent them from even questioning Clinton.

Sorry. Show me why the 3 hand writing experts with decades of professional experience would put their reputations on the line? Show me where their methods were flawed.

[palerider]

:eek:
I had to read this twice before i could believe my own eyes. Conspiracies involving the left must be much easier for you to believe.

You are correct the evidence doesnt support suicide

Convincing evidence is convincing evidence. Left or right is irrelavent.

[Dr.Who]

Have you seriously sat down and thought about the ramifications of having a sitting President found guilty of murdering a political associate over criminal financial activity that the President and his wife had been involved in?

It could have brought the government down. It definitely could have literally destroyed the Democratic Party. And that's why the charges of "vast right wing conspiracy" surfaced so quickly. To destroy the reputation of any who would question the stories that the Clinton's put forth. So it quickly became an "us against them" battle. And again, what Democrat would want to think that they voted for a murderer? Cognitive Dissonance would prevent them from even questioning Clinton.

Sorry. Show me why the 3 hand writing experts with decades of professional experience would put their reputations on the line? Show me where their methods were flawed.

yes I have. Either the evidence is not all that strong and not every murder or suicide case in the country fits into a neat little CSI box where all the evidence points exactly in the same directions and makes perfect sense

OR

First the President or his allies killed Vince Foster and did a sloppy job of it.

Then his opponents decided not to pursue it for the sake of the gov. (which would make the pubs better than the dems because the dems would clearly impeach P. Bush if they had the chance)

And the press from both the liberal and the conservative media also agreed to keep quiet.

And when a person builds a house of cards they always have to add just one more card to keep it from falling down.

[top gun]

Truth-Bringer;20032]Well it does describe you perfectly.

Come on... quit drinking the Kool Aid and be serious.

You know there are also sources that say Ron Paul is the leader of a Satanic Cult. ;)

Magus Anton Szandor LaVey (1930-1997), Founder

Magus Peter H. Gilmore, High Priest

Magistra Peggy Nadramia, High Priestess

Magistra Blanche Barton, Magistra Templi Rex

R. E. Paul, Grand Wizard of the Veil

Central Administrative Office:
Church of Satan, P.O. Box 499, Radio City Station, New York, NY 10101-0499 USA

The Cloven Hoof:
Magistra Blanche Barton, P.O. Box 210666, Chula Vista, CA 91921-0666 USA

[Coyote]

I am not convinced by the so-called evidence. Mostly because it is from http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/ and you just have to take their word for the accuracy and truthfulness of the material. I think it's always important to consider the source.

I have a lot of doubts here. Frankly, Clinton was so villified that if there was an ounce of truth in this they would have crucified him. It would simply be too good to pass up.

[Coyote]

Come on... quit drinking the Kool Aid and be serious.

You know there are also sources that say Ron Paul is the leader of a Satanic Cult. ;)

Magus Anton Szandor LaVey (1930-1997), Founder

Magus Peter H. Gilmore, High Priest

Magistra Peggy Nadramia, High Priestess

Magistra Blanche Barton, Magistra Templi Rex

R. E. Paul, Grand Wizard of the Veil

Central Administrative Office:
Church of Satan, P.O. Box 499, Radio City Station, New York, NY 10101-0499 USA

The Cloven Hoof:
Magistra Blanche Barton, P.O. Box 210666, Chula Vista, CA 91921-0666 USA

oops - guess I won't be voting for Ron Paul:D

[top gun]

oops - guess I won't be voting for Ron Paul:D

And of course it must be true... you saw it on the computer right... LoL? :D

Given enough time and I'm pretty sure we could post claims that half the candidates have committed barnyard sodomy in the past and the other half are aliens from other planets.

This country has serious problems and it needs serious people to address them. Bashing people for sport and a vindictive political agenda doesn't help America. People have wised up on those who have to "swift boat" someone to win. They are now looked down on. The days of Karl Rove are over.

[vyo476]

Bashing people for sport and a vindictive political agenda doesn't help America.

But it's so much fun.

[Truth-Bringer]

S

You know there are also sources that say Ron Paul is the leader of a Satanic Cult.

Please post the source.

[Truth-Bringer]

And of course it must be true... you saw it on the computer right... LoL? :D

Again, you guys aren't addressing any of the specifics I've posted, nor will you.

And then you try and point the finger at someone else with a totally baseless charge with no source posted and no witnesses and no hard facts and claim that's the exact same situation with Clinton. ROTFLMAO.

The reports from Reuters and the Associated Press on the handwriting analysis are at the bottom of this link. (http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/FOSTER_COVERUP/NOTE/note.html) It was reported by the mainstream media. And then it was dropped... My point is - NO ONE EVER QUESTIONED THEIR RESULTS. The press just assumed as you did no President would ever be involved in such a thing, and they lapped up everything the government told them.

[top gun]

Truth-Bringer;20490]Again, you guys aren't addressing any of the specifics I've posted, nor will you.

Truth-Bringer I'm opening up the top gun "NO BULL" zone for ya.

Here it is...

Ron Paul won't even get close to the "Republican" nomination let alone ever see the White House.

Mrs. Clinton will most likely be the Democratic nominee and whoever is the Democratic nominee will win the White House in 2008.

We now have to just wait and see who the "REAL" Truth-Bringer really is. ;)

[bokile]

Please post the source.

They do not have any sources;) this is one smart man who knows how big crimes Clintons commited:eek: :eek:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEhgwdJldeU&mode=related&search=

[Truth-Bringer]

Kathleen Willey suspects Clintons murdered husband

New Article (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/staticarticles/article58533.html)

[Popeye]

Kathleen Willey suspects Clintons murdered husband

New Article (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/staticarticles/article58533.html)

Give me a break. Conspiracy theories, Clinton hatred, your own personal Ron Paul love in. You've got it all goin' on, don't you?

[Truth-Bringer]

Give me a break. Conspiracy theories, Clinton hatred,

The only hatred here is your hatred of the facts. Here are some more facts about your beloved Clinton:

The Good Ole Boys

Dateline: 09/22/99

I n the South, we have an expression. If you are connected to the Powers That Be, you are known to be a "Good Ole Boy". The phrase is used in other areas, I am sure. But it is a particularly descriptive colloquialism known to Southerners. It most particularly hones in on the local power structure - the politicos that run the show.

In many Souther States, an organization known only as the "Dixie Mafia" is active and aligned to a large degree with the Good Ole Boys. In other words some of the boys are members of the Dixie Mafia and vice versa. The Dixie Mafia is reputed to put the more famous Mafia to shame in its viciousness.

The State of Arkansas has been long known as a state that is basically run by the Dixie Mafia, and their political structure has always been a personification of the "Good Old Boys".

When Bill Clinton was Governor of Arkansas for 12 years, he was the generally recognized head of the Dixie Mafia, and of course the Good Ole Boy political structure had tentacles everywhere. This is not speculation or idle gossip, but facts known to political insiders in Little Rock for years.

Crossing this group is not wise. One's health can be jeopardized if you are so bold as to go up against the Good Ole Boys.

And so in 1984, when Wayne Dumond began speaking in local churches about how local cars were disappearing all over town, he jeopardized himself tragically. He suggested that there was a ring involved and that the Good Ole Boy that had ties to Governor Bill Clinton were the culprits. In fact, it was later revealed that the deputies were stealing and selling the cars. But the sheriff of the county was not amused by Dumond's little campaign.

On September 14, 1984, in Forest City, Arkansas, Bill Clinton's cousin, and daughter of his largest contributor, was allegedly kidnapped and raped. Initially, she identified two men who did the deed, but later retracted the accusations when they had alibis. Then, with a little help from the Sheriff, she accused Wayne Dumond.

Dumond was the father of 6 children and happily married. He was a handyman and an active churchgoer. When he was charged with the crime, those who knew him were appalled and couldn't believe it. Later, an expert would testify that the sperm found on the accuser's pants could not "in a million years" be that of Dumond's. Still, in August, 1985, he was convicted of the crime and sentenced to life plus 20 years. Despite other evidence in Dumond's favor, Arkansas' Good Ole Boy Appellate Courts saw fit to deny his appeal.

While Dumond was awaiting trial, two thugs with ski masks, guns and knives, broke into his home, raped him, hog tied him and castrated him. He was left bleeding to death and if his sons had not come home from school when they did and get help, he would have bled to death. Over three fourths of his blood had poured out on the floor before he received medical aid.

A few days later, the testicles were seen in a jar on the desk of Sheriff Coolidge Conlee. He presumably retrieved the testicles from the crime scene, and those who looked at them were warned that, "this is what happens to people who fool around in my county".

This poor excuse for a human being (the sheriff) was later convicted of drug dealing and extortion in the federal courts and sentenced to 160 years in the pen. He died there of natural causes, unfortunately.

Despite presenting this evidence to Clinton, he refused to listen. The expert testimony which said Dumond could not possibly have raped the girl, fell on deaf ears.

Even after Dumond was in prison, and more and more evidence in his favor turned up, Governor Bill Clinton would not lift a finger. At the time, the people of Arkansas didn't know the girl was his cousin, that her father was his largest contributor or that her mother had been very active in each of his campaigns. It was only years later, when an enterprising reporter, in concert with an honest lawman, revealed these truths about the case. Still, Dumond rotted in jail.

While awaiting appeal, before going to jail, and after the castration, Dumond and his family left their home and hid in a safe house. Their home was burned to the ground and they could not get any kind of insurance reimbursement.

Twice, the Parole Board recommended parole for Dumond. Clinton refused to sign the orders. In fact, it was reported at the time that Clinton had a "stomping, ripping fit". He was infuriated that they wanted to release Dumond.

Later, the family would sue the county and ultimately get a settlement of only $20,000. Dumond would not benefit from it, but at least his wife Dusty and children could have some small help.

When Bill Clinton ran for president and turned the reins over to his crooked Lt. Governor, Jim Guy Tucker, Dumond had hope that maybe he would be heard. Tucker did reduce his sentence to only 39 years with four years added. About all that did was to make him eligible for release a little earlier.

Then Jim Guy Tucker got convicted in the Whitewater scandal,

Rest of Article Here (http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a37f0fdfd37bb.htm)

And another article on the issue proving its veracity:

The Castration of Wayne DuMond (http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0110,harkavy,22841,1.html)

A Pardon That Clinton Didn’t Grant

by Ward Harkavy

[Coyote]

Kathleen Willey suspects Clintons murdered husband

New Article (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/staticarticles/article58533.html)

I suspect Bush killed my dog, but no one believes me.

[vyo476]

I suspect Bush killed my dog, but no one believes me.

I believe you.

[Truth-Bringer]

I suspect Bush killed my dog, but no one believes me.

Did Bush ever feel your dog up and try to have sex with it after your dog's mate died - like Clinton did with Kathleen Willey?

[Coyote]

Did Bush ever feel your dog up and try to have sex with it after your dog's mate died - like Clinton did with Kathleen Willey?

Indeed he did. It was disgusting.

[palerider]

Frm. Pres. Clinton had plenty of political enemies in positions of power who would have loved for this to be strong enough to be used against him. But they did not.

Oddly enough, one of the very early acts of the clintons when they moved into the white house was to collect some 900 raw FBI files of their political enemies and those who might become political enemies.

One has to wonder just what sort of dirt they had in the data base that allowed them to do as they pleased and expect no real action from any side.

[palerider]

I suspect Bush killed my dog, but no one believes me.

There are some serious issues with regard to foster's "suicide". Making light, rather than simply taking the issues head on hardly bolsters your case. To date, I haven't seen a single person answer, or even attempt to answer any of them.

Giggling, making jokes, or claiming clinton hatred exposes your lack of any real rebuttal to the questions that have been posed.

[Popeye]

There are some serious issues with regard to foster's "suicide". Making light, rather than simply taking the issues head on hardly bolsters your case. To date, I haven't seen a single person answer, or even attempt to answer any of them.

Giggling, making jokes, or claiming clinton hatred exposes your lack of any real rebuttal to the questions that have been posed.

Sounds to me like you're ready to believe just about anything negative about the Clintons. While, at the same time, refusing to acknowledge any of the positives. Vince Foster? Why don't you say something about the Bush family ties to powerful Saudis, among them the Bin Laden family. Or, possibly, Prescott Bush's ties to the Nazis. Things like these are always conveniently ignored by the right, as you so aptly demonstrate.

[palerider]

Sounds to me like you're ready to believe just about anything negative about the Clintons. While, at the same time, refusing to acknowledge any of the positives. Vince Foster? Why don't you say something about the Bush family ties to powerful Saudis, among them the Bin Laden family. Or, possibly, Prescott Bush's ties to the Nazis. Things like these are always conveniently ignored by the right, as you so aptly demonstrate.

Attempting to divert attention to another venue also highlights the fact that you either aren't prepared to, or can't answer the questions posed with regard to vince foster's "suicide".

If you want to talk about the bush's, by all means start a thread but this one is about the evidence that very strongly suggests that vince foster didn't take his own life.

[Popeye]

Attempting to divert attention to another venue also highlights the fact that you either aren't prepared to, or can't answer the questions posed with regard to vince foster's "suicide".

There is no credible evidence that Foster was murdered. Perhaps you count Dan Burton's shooting of watermelons as evidence, I actually wouldn't be surprised. Lets look at the facts, not right wing BS. In 1997, special prosecutor Ken Starr released his report on the investigation into Foster's death, the third such investigation, after ones conducted by the coroner and Starr's predecessor, Robert B. Fisk of the matter. The 114-page summary of a three-year investigation concluded that Foster shot himself with the pistol discovered in his right hand. There was no sign of a struggle, nor any evidence he'd been drugged or intoxicated or that his body had been moved.

If Foster had been murdered or if unanswered questions about his death remained, Starr would have been the last person to want to conclude the investigation prematurely. Or are we to believe Starr is part of the cover up, too? And if we buy into the conspiracy theory, what are we expected to believe? That a group of professional killers capable of carrying out dozens of murders all over the world shot Vince Foster, then clumsily dumped him in a park, planted a gun he didn't own in his hand (without bothering to press his fingerprints onto it), amateurishly forged a suicide note (in several different handwritings), then expected the nation would believe it was suicide? Give me a break, palerider.

[palerider]

There is no credible evidence that Foster was murdered. Perhaps you count Dan Burton's shooting of watermelons as evidence, I actually wouldn't be surprised. Lets look at the facts, not right wing BS.

No credible evidence? Are you kidding? There is no credible evidence of a suicide. But just for you, lets examine the facts.

Here is a crime scene photo of vince foster's hand and the gun that he allegedly took his life with.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v402/stories4u/Foster_hand1.jpg

I don't know whether or not you have any knowledge of ballistics, so I am going to speak as if you don't. Do you know what blowback is? A gun placed in the mouth and fired creates quite a lot of blowback. Suffice it to say that if you put a gun in your mouth and pulled the trigger, neither your gun nor your hand would be spotless. There are photos on the internet that graphically depict the extent of blowback from a gunshot wound to the mouth, but I am not going to post them for you.

The FBI report indicates that no trace of blood was found on the gun, nor were his fingerprints. Here is the FBI report indicating that no blood was found on item # K1

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v402/stories4u/blood1.jpg

Further, the description of the crime scene indicated a trickle of blood coming out of his mouth and blood running down his neck. Had he put a gu n in his moth and fired into his brain, as was reported, the concussion would have caused a great deal of damage to his sinus cavities. His heart would have continued to beat until there was no more oxygenated blood for it to pump, and the result would have been great gouts of blood pouring from both is mouth and nose. The resulting blood loss from such wounds could in no way be characterized as a "trickle".

Further, no powder residue consisten with that in the ammunition that he supposedly killed himself with was found in his mouth.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v402/stories4u/powder1.jpg

And the inconsistencies go on and on and on. Rather than ask you to address them all, make it easy on yourself and just address the complete lack of blowback residue on either the gun or his hand.

The facts are what they are. Address them.

[Popeye]

I really don't know about the powder residue. However, I do know that your so called "inconsistencies" were addressed in 3 separate investigations. Is everyone involved in a cover up? Address the conclusions these reports came to. I can go to prisonplanet.com and find all sorts of supposed evidence for conspiracies, doesn't make them true. Again, what about the investigations? How do you account for their conclusions?

[Coyote]

There are some serious issues with regard to foster's "suicide". Making light, rather than simply taking the issues head on hardly bolsters your case. To date, I haven't seen a single person answer, or even attempt to answer any of them.

Giggling, making jokes, or claiming clinton hatred exposes your lack of any real rebuttal to the questions that have been posed.

I will giggle and I will make jokes because this, frankly is little more then a joke.

It was ruled a suicide by multiple investigations including at least one that was hostile to Clinton. When you consider that there was a hostile Congress eager to make hay over anything Clinton did - how was it they failed to do so here? No, this is yet another conspiracy theory.

As to answering the individual points - there is no one website devoted to this that puts together all the information in the same way that Truth Bringers site does, so it's a bit difficult isn't it?

If multiple investigations cleared him, then I think that should be sufficient. But not - of course - if you hate Clinton.

[palerider]

I really don't know about the powder residue. However, I do know that your so called "inconsistencies" were addressed in 3 separate investigations. Is everyone involved in a cover up? Address the conclusions these reports came to. I can go to prisonplanet.com and find all sorts of supposed evidence for conspiracies, doesn't make them true. Again, what about the investigations? How do you account for their conclusions?

Again, non answers. If you place a gun in your mouth and pull the trigger, both your hand and your gun will subsequently be covered in gore and you will have copious quantities of powder residue in your mouth, and great gouts of blood will flow from both your mouth and your nose. Those are the inescapable facts of putting a gun in your mouth and pulling the trigger.

Explain how poor vince managed to suspend the laws of physics for his suicide.

[palerider]

I will giggle and I will make jokes because this, frankly is little more then a joke.

It was ruled a suicide by multiple investigations including at least one that was hostile to Clinton. When you consider that there was a hostile Congress eager to make hay over anything Clinton did - how was it they failed to do so here? No, this is yet another conspiracy theory.

As to answering the individual points - there is no one website devoted to this that puts together all the information in the same way that Truth Bringers site does, so it's a bit difficult isn't it?

If multiple investigations cleared him, then I think that should be sufficient. But not - of course - if you hate Clinton.

Answer the questions I brought up regarding what happens when one pulls the trigger of a gun in one's mouth.

I don't care how many investigations determined that it was suicide. I know what happens when you put a gun in your mouth and pull the trigger and the condition of foster's body simply was not consistent with the inescapable consequences of eating a bullet.

[Truth-Bringer]

Sounds to me like you're ready to believe just about anything negative about the Clintons. While, at the same time, refusing to acknowledge any of the positives. Vince Foster? Why don't you say something about the Bush family ties to powerful Saudis, among them the Bin Laden family. Or, possibly, Prescott Bush's ties to the Nazis. Things like these are always conveniently ignored by the right, as you so aptly demonstrate.

I have brought up numerous negative points about Bush. You can't brand me as a partisan Republican, because I'm not. I'm a Libertarian. And I haven't voted for a Republican or Democrat in over 12 years.

[Truth-Bringer]

It was ruled a suicide by multiple investigations including at least one that was hostile to Clinton.

And every one of those "investigations" was flawed for the reasons posted earlier.

[Truth-Bringer]

I do know that your so called "inconsistencies" were addressed in 3 separate investigations.

No, they weren't. That's precisely the issue and why Fiske was scrapped. The links I've posted have already explained this issue thoroughly.

[Truth-Bringer]

Again, non answers. If you place a gun in your mouth and pull the trigger, both your hand and your gun will subsequently be covered in gore and you will have copious quantities of powder residue in your mouth, and great gouts of blood will flow from both your mouth and your nose. Those are the inescapable facts of putting a gun in your mouth and pulling the trigger.

Explain how poor vince managed to suspend the laws of physics for his suicide.

Precisely. The laws of physics were "miraculously" suspended for this "suicide." The original link I posted has a video clip of an actual handgun suicide taking place. It clearly shows exactly what would happen if someone shot themselves in the mouth.

[Truth-Bringer]

I also wish someone would explain this, from an interview with Gennifer Flowers:

An Interview With Gennifer Flowers: On First Indiscretions

By J. Ryan Gilfoil | Wednesday, February 4, 1998

Editor's Note: This interview was conducted in June of 1995, following the publication of Ms. Flowers's book on her relationship with President Clinton and the ensuing public revelations.

Skip to:

Review: Gary Johnson, your neighbor in the Quapaw Towers in Arkansas, said he had a videotape of Bill Clinton entering your apartment. He was beaten nearly to death, and the tape was allegedly stolen. Do you suspect that Bill Clinton might have been involved?

Flowers: I sure do. Gary Johnson let it be known that he had the videotape. I know he had the video camera mounted, and I know he had the opportunity. I find it very odd that all of the sudden two people come in and try to beat him to death when he lets it be known in town that he has the video. I think it's very likely that Bill's people had something to do with it. Who else would do it? Who else would want to kill the man for a videotape?

Later in the interview:


Review: Do you think Bill Clinton would allow physical harm to come to his enemies?

Flowers: Oh, I do. Indirectly. I don't think Bill's going to go out and do these things himself. But I think that indirectly he's capable of doing a lot of things. His hands may be tied more now than ever before, because he's in such a high-profile situation. I'm not calling Bill a murderer, but I'm just saying that I think he's very capable of doing what it takes to accomplish what he needs.

Link (http://dartreview.com/archives/1998/02/04/an_interview_with_gennifer_flowers_on_first_indisc retions.php)

I wish someone would explain to me who beat Gary Johnson, Gennifer Flowers' neighbor nearly to death after he announced he had a videotape of Bill Clinton entering her apartment. The only thing stolen was the videotape.

Simple question: Who had the motive to do this?

[Truth-Bringer]

By the way, Popeye and Coyote, you both have a conflict of interest here if you voted for Clinton. How would it feel to know you voted for someone who would hire people to murder a man who might expose them for serious political corruption? Cognitive Dissonance is the reason Clinton voters can't see the truth in this matter. They don't want to.

[vyo476]

Here's a copy of Ken Starr's Foster Report:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/whitewater/docs/foster.htm

If someone with more free time than I have would like to pore over it, go for it. I looked through it briefly and didn't see anything out of place.

[Popeye]

Here's a copy of Ken Starr's Foster Report:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/whitewater/docs/foster.htm

If someone with more free time than I have would like to pore over it, go for it. I looked through it briefly and didn't see anything out of place.

Good post. I went right to the report's summary, quote," based on all of the available evidence, which is considerable, the OIC agrees with the conclusion reached by every official entity that has examined the issue: Mr. Foster committed suicide by gunshot in Fort Marcy Park on July 20, 1993 ."

Enough said.

[Coyote]

And every one of those "investigations" was flawed for the reasons posted earlier.

One of the red flags for conspiracy theories material is that all investigations that determine a truth contrary to the conspiracy theory are flawed.

If it were just one - I'd say it might be. But three? I don't think so.

[Coyote]

By the way, Popeye and Coyote, you both have a conflict of interest here if you voted for Clinton. How would it feel to know you voted for someone who would hire people to murder a man who might expose them for serious political corruption? Cognitive Dissonance is the reason Clinton voters can't see the truth in this matter. They don't want to.

Not at all. Voting for someone doesn't mean you like them or approve of their every action. But, this is one good way to avoid the issue I suppose. Call them brainwashed, sheep or "Cognitive Dissonance". Sounds like fancy pyschobabble.

I like facts. I think 3 solid investigations with people dying to show any evil done by Clinton should have come up with something solid. They didn't.

[Coyote]

The only thing stolen was the videotape.

Simple question: Who had the motive to do this?

...and only the videotape was stolen. How convenient.

As Sherlock Holmes:
"There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact."

Maybe the obvious fact is the videotape never existed. That is certainly the simplest explanation.

[Truth-Bringer]

One of the red flags for conspiracy theories material is that all investigations that determine a truth contrary to the conspiracy theory are flawed.

If it were just one - I'd say it might be. But three? I don't think so.

As you said "red flag" - the fact that 3 investigations were conducted is a red flag. Why wasn't one sufficient?

[Truth-Bringer]

Not at all. Voting for someone doesn't mean you like them or approve of their every action.

But voting for someone who would turn out to be guilty of murder would make those who voted for him look pretty stupid.

But, this is one good way to avoid the issue I suppose. Call them brainwashed, sheep or "Cognitive Dissonance". Sounds like fancy pyschobabble.


Maybe you just don't understand what it is.

[Truth-Bringer]

...and only the videotape was stolen. How convenient.

As Sherlock Holmes:
"There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact."

Maybe the obvious fact is the videotape never existed. That is certainly the simplest explanation.

ROTFLMAO!!!!! There's no need for the video to have existed. Why was he beaten after he publically announced he had a video tape of Clinton leaving Gennifer Flowers' apartment by people he'd never seen before? Why was the crime unsolved? Why was no one ever arrested? Why was no other motive ever investigated? Maybe because no other motive existed...

I guess this guy concocted the whole thing and allowed someone to beat him almost to death for the fun of it...

You Clinton apologists are too funny. Sad and demented in your love of Clinton, but funny...

[Truth-Bringer]

As Sherlock Holmes:
"There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact."


The obvious fact is that Foster was murdered. And you are deceiving yourself to believe it isn't so.

101 Peculiarities Surrounding the Death of Vince Foster (http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a37f933db2467.htm)

[palerider]

Still waiting for someone to explain how vince suspended the laws of physics when he ate the bullet. Specific things happen EVERY SINGLE TIME someone puts a gun in their mouth and pulls a trigger. Flesh and blood react in a consistent way when subjected to this sort of trauma. It didn't happen in vince's case. How did he manage that?

I also would be interested someone's opinion of why 3 investigations were needed? Investigation upon investigation upon investigation strongly suggests an attempt to confuse the issue.

[Coyote]

ROTFLMAO!!!!! There's no need for the video to have existed. Why was he beaten after he publically announced he had a video tape of Clinton leaving Gennifer Flowers' apartment by people he'd never seen before? Why was the crime unsolved? Why was no one ever arrested? Why was no other motive ever investigated? Maybe because no other motive existed...

I guess this guy concocted the whole thing and allowed someone to beat him almost to death for the fun of it...

You Clinton apologists are too funny. Sad and demented in your love of Clinton, but funny...

See, that's the whole ridiculous thing here. If someone disputes you - they become "apologists", sheep, demented, etc. It's so tiresome and childish.

Every investigation has discrepencies. Three seperate investigations ruled it a suicide and ruled the discrepencies irrelevent.

You are eager to paint anyone who thought Clinton might possibly have done a good job as "Clinton apologists" yet, you utterly fail to see that you (and Pale) in your hatred of Clinton and all things Clinton might be just as blind to the truth that maybe Vince Foster committed suicide.

[Coyote]

Still waiting for someone to explain how vince suspended the laws of physics when he ate the bullet. Specific things happen EVERY SINGLE TIME someone puts a gun in their mouth and pulls a trigger. Flesh and blood react in a consistent way when subjected to this sort of trauma. It didn't happen in vince's case. How did he manage that?

I also would be interested someone's opinion of why 3 investigations were needed? Investigation upon investigation upon investigation strongly suggests an attempt to confuse the issue.

I don't have access to ALL the information and forensics that the investigations did. Do you? Does Truthbringer? All we see are PORTIONS of what are CLAIMED to be information.

Why 3 investigations? For the same reason we spent untold millions of taxpayer dollars investigating what finally ended up being a Presidential infidelity. Clinton's presidency can best be characterized as one massive, wasteful Republican witchhunt trying to find anything they could on Clinton.

Congress pushed the investigations and Congress was Republican led. If three investigations fail to change the verdict of suicide - well how many more will it take to convince you? None, I think - because you will never believe otherwise will you?

[Coyote]

Here is what Wikipedia has to say about it, and it includes their sources: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Vince_Foster



Official findings
Foster's death was concluded to have been a suicide by inquiries/investigations conducted by the United States Park Police, the Department of Justice, the FBI, the United States Congress, Independent Counsel Robert B. Fiske, and Independent Counsel Kenneth Starr.[1].

After a three-year investigation, Starr concluded that Foster's death was a suicide. CNN stated on February 28, 1997, "The [Starr] report refutes claims by conservative political organizations that Foster was the victim of a murder plot and coverup," but "despite those findings, right-wing political groups have continued to allege that there was more to the death and that the president and first lady tried to cover it up."[2]


Conspiracy theories

Background
The Washington Post noted David Brock was "summoned" to a meeting with Rex Armistead in Miami, Florida at an airport hotel. Armistead laid out an elaborate "Vince Foster murder scenario," Brock said – a scenario that he found implausible."[3] Both Brock and Armistead were reporters who were funded by Richard Scaife to investigate issues ranging from drug smuggling to Foster to discredit Clinton with the Arkansas Project.[4] Scaife funded Christopher W. Ruddy[5] (later founder of NewsMax), who previously was a writer for the Scaife-owned Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, to research Clinton for the Arkansas Project. Ruddy has argued that while he posits no conspiracy theory about Foster's death, he believes a cover-up took place and that Foster's body had likely been moved. [6]

Ruddy was backed by Joseph Farah and Farah's organization the Western Journalism Center.[6] This group supplied Ruddy with "additional expense money, funding for Freedom of Information Act requests, legal support and publicity during his book research of a conspiracy surrounding the suicide of Foster.[7] Ruddy eventually released The Strange Death of Vincent Foster which was published by Simon & Schuster. [8]

Nonetheless, in 1999 Farah's Western Journalism Center "placed some 50 ads reprinting Ruddy's Tribune-Review stories in the Washington Times, then repackaged the articles as a packet titled The Ruddy Investigation, which sold for $12."[9] Shortly thereafter, the Western Journalism Center "circulated a video featuring Ruddy's claims, 'Unanswered-The Death of Vincent Foster,' that was produced by James Davidson, chairman of the National Taxpayers Union (NTU) and co-editor of the Strategic Investment newsletter."[9] (NTU's research arm receives funds from Scaife.) Eventually, Scaife became an investor and the third-largest stockholder of Ruddy's NewsMax[10] and both NewsMax and the WorldNetDaily continue to publish materials that show the Clintons in a negative light."[11]

Another group is Accuracy in Media (AIM), a conservative media watchdog group.[12] AIM quotes Assistant U.S. Attorney Miguel Rodriguez, who resigned from the investigation, as saying "I knew what the result was going to be, because I was told what the result was going to be from the get-go."[13]

Besides the official investigations, including Kenneth Starr's report that ruled Foster's death a suicide, Dan Moldea wrote a book, with encouragement from Al Regnery of Regnery Publishing house stating that Foster's death was a suicide and he found the scenarios were first promulgated by Robert Hines who shared ideas with Reed Irvine at Accuracy in Media, and Christopher W. Ruddy, who was then at the New York Post.[14] Hines had falsely told "them that there is no exit wound in Foster's head," but Moldea explained, "I don't think there was anything nefarious here," rather Hines "was being approached by reporters and he wanted something to say."[14] The main proponents of this telling of events were Christopher W. Ruddy of the New York Post, and later with the Pittsburgh Tribune Review (owned by Richard Mellon Scaife), and Joseph Farah of the Western Journalism Center.

As to what prompted this line of investigation, reporter Dan Moldea claimed in an interview for Salon.com that "Foster had some blond hair and carpet fibers on his suit jacket, and he had semen in his underwear. So, the Jerry Falwells and the right-wing crowd get a hold of this information, and…they start making movies alleging that the Clintons were involved in this murder."[14] Falwell produced the Clinton Chronicles, which Ruddy was involved with claiming the gun was placed in Fosters hand.[14] These videos and claims have been "widely discredited" the videos "sophisticated production" served as a reliable resource.[15]

Funding for the film was Citizens for Honest Government, which Jerry Falwell paid $200,000 to in 1994 and 1995.[15] In 1995 Citizens for Honest Government paid two Arkansas state troopers who had previously made allegations supporting the conspiracy about Vincent Foster.[15] These two troopers were Roger Perry and Larry Patteson who had also previously given testimony in the Paula Jones (See: Troopergate) claims.[15] Citizens for Honest Government also covertly paid individuals who had provided information to media outlets such as the Wall Street Journal editorial page and the American Spectator magazine, which named them as sources."[15]

Patrick Matrisciana, president of Citizens for Honest Government, and producer of the Clinton Chronicles video appeared in its commercials as the "silhouetted individual whom he identifies only as an 'investigative reporter'."[15] When asked about the scene Matrisciana admitted he was not a reporter and replied "I doubt our lives were actually ever in any real danger. That was Jerry's idea to do that ... He thought that would be dramatic."[15]


Theories
Some propose that Foster was murdered to prevent his revealing information derogatory to Clinton, about Whitewater, Travelgate, or other matters, or that Hillary Clinton was somehow involved by covering up activities together with Foster before his death. [16] Others allege a romantic relationship between Foster and Hillary Clinton.[17][18] Other critics of the Clintons have made even more lurid allegations, claiming that she had killed Foster herself [19] or had him killed.[20] Apart from the Travelgate allegations, no credible evidence or charges were ever brought forward in connection with any of these allegations.
With respect to this case, conspiracy theorists are largely divided into two groups. Some suspect that Foster committed suicide in a location that was embarrassing to figures connected to the Clinton administration and that government agents dumped his body in the park to avoid any embarrassment. Others suspect that Foster died from a shot from a small-caliber pistol to the neck and his body was dumped in the park. A book by Christopher Andersen entitled Bill and Hillary: The Marriage claims that Foster and Hillary Clinton were involved in an affair, and that the supposed affair was related to Foster's death.[17]

[Truth-Bringer]

See, that's the whole ridiculous thing here. If someone disputes you - they become "apologists", sheep, demented, etc. It's so tiresome and childish.

You are tiresome and childish. You are disputing facts and appealing to authority over and over again.

[Coyote]

You are tiresome and childish. You are disputing facts and appealing to authority over and over again.

There you go again - you aren't offering "facts" - you are offering a mixture of opinion and fact, all of which is incomplete. And then what happens - you start lobbing insults, fallacies yadayadayada. You do it every single time you are challanged.

Appeal to authority? Well, if you say so we must all be doing this because - after all, you have your "authority" in your conspiracy theory website which displays portions of documents, personal testimonial (which if this were science has absolutely no value) and hearsay. Since 3 seperate investigations came to the same conclusion, obviously they are all lying.

Give me a break.

[Truth-Bringer]

I don't have access to ALL the information and forensics that the investigations did. Do you? Does Truthbringer?

Why can't we get access? Oh yeah, the government won't let us...

Supreme Court permits withholding Foster photos (http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/03/30/foster.photos/)

By Bill Mears

May 6, 2004

"WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The Supreme Court Tuesday blocked the public release of controversial photographs showing the body of former White House official Vincent Foster, with justices concluding it would be an "unwarranted invasion" of the family's privacy."

[Coyote]

By the way Truthbringer - have you seen everything - all the evidence, that the independent investigators saw?

[Truth-Bringer]

There you go again

No, there you go again.

[Coyote]

Why can't we get access? Oh yeah, the government won't let us...

Supreme Court permits withholding Foster photos (http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/03/30/foster.photos/)

By Bill Mears

May 6, 2004

"WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The Supreme Court Tuesday blocked the public release of controversial photographs showing the body of former White House official Vincent Foster, with justices concluding it would be an "unwarranted invasion" of the family's privacy."

Because you silly goose - it IS "unwarranted invasion" of the family's privacy." You don't display pictures of a dead body against the family's wishes - period. But the investigations had access to it. And - wow, since WHEN does that comprise ALL the evidence?

[Coyote]

No, there you go again.


This really does sound childish.

nuh uh

huh huh

nuh uh

huh huh

:rolleyes:

[Truth-Bringer]

Official findings
Foster's death was concluded to have been a suicide by inquiries/investigations conducted by the United States Park Police, the Department of Justice, the FBI, the United States Congress, Independent Counsel Robert B. Fiske, and Independent Counsel Kenneth Starr.

And I've seen the official findings of the FBI and the Park Police in regards to the handwriting analysis of the alleged suicide note. AGAIN - the FBI violated its own procedures and the procedures of handwriting analysis in general. The Park Police officer wasn't even qualified to do a handwriting analysis. Once you look closer, you see these gaping holes in all these "conclusive" investigations. The whole thing is just a sham.

[Truth-Bringer]

This really does sound childish.


Yes, you really do sound childish. Time for you to go back to your playstation.

[Truth-Bringer]

But the investigations had access to it.

They had access to the suicide note also - and they botched it.

[Coyote]

And I've seen the official findings of the FBI and the Park Police in regards to the handwriting analysis of the alleged suicide note. AGAIN - the FBI violated its own procedures and the procedures of handwriting analysis in general. The Park Police officer wasn't even qualified to do a handwriting analysis. Once you look closer, you see these gaping holes in all these "conclusive" investigations. The whole thing is just a sham.

If you haven't seen all the evidence as was provided to the investigations - then of course there gaping holes. You've only seen parts of it. There's a lot of hearsay involved as well and hearsay, to the best of my knowledge is seldom reliable as evidence.

[Coyote]

Yes, you really do sound childish. Time for you to go back to your playstation.

Silly girl :rolleyes:

[Coyote]

They had access to the suicide note also - and they botched it.

Three seperate independent investigations botched it? That's stretching credability to the limits.

[Popeye]

They had access to the suicide note also - and they botched it.

This whole debate is ridiculous. Three separate official investigations, one headed by Ken Starr, ruled Vince Foster's death a suicide. Yet I get the impression 300 investigations could rule his death a suicide and you wouldn't be happy.

I suppose I could look back over your posts, but just let me ask, do you believe 9/11 was an inside job? Because it seems to me like you're just one of those people who loves conspiracy theories.

[palerider]

Why 3 investigations? For the same reason we spent untold millions of taxpayer dollars investigating what finally ended up being a Presidential infidelity. Clinton's presidency can best be characterized as one massive, wasteful Republican witchhunt trying to find anything they could on Clinton.

See how well all the investigations worked. After all that, you sit there thinking that it was about presidential infidelity. It was about perjury and the subject matter is completely irrelavent. If a person can decide what he will and will not tell the truth about under oath, then exactly what good is our legal system?

Should I list off the number of convictions and prison sentences that came out that "wasted" money? You would have prefered that the criminials remain uncharged and working at the highest levels of government?

And do you need to be reminded that clinton was disbarred. Not for getting a bj but for comitting a crime? And considering that the evidence was overwhelming enough to get him disbarred but not convicted in congress, one must wonder if the clinton's illegal posession of 900 raw FBI files on political enemies, the families of political enemies, and those who may become political enemies had something to do with their reluctance to convict him on the overwhelming evidence.

Congress pushed the investigations and Congress was Republican led. If three investigations fail to change the verdict of suicide - well how many more will it take to convince you? None, I think - because you will never believe otherwise will you?

Pardon me, but I am not one to turn off my brain, and ignore facts because some congressmen tell me a thing whether I agree with them or not. They have apparently told you that vince was able to suspend the laws of physics and bypass human physiology for his suicide and you simply say OK?

I will be convinced when someone addresses the facts, rather than simply telling me to ignore them and believe what they say. You apparently place much stock in those investigations, and have based your position on their findings. So tell me, how did the investigations address the following facts:

* There was no blood or tissue on the gun or foster's hand and only a trickle of blood was noted running out of his mouth by the crime scene investigators. The force of a gunshot within the mouth blows back large amounts of blood and tissue.

* Fosters fingerprints were not found on the gun in his hand. Two fingerprints were found under the grips however, and no attempt was made to identify who they belonged to. Further, the gun was made of parts of at least two guns and there is neither any evidence that the gun belonged to foster, nor any evidence that it fired the fatal shot.

* The gunpowder residue found on fosters glasses, clothing, and in his mouth did not come from the gun in his hand.

* No skull fragments were ever found at the scene of the crime even though it is stated that he had a large exit wound in the back of his skull.

There are others, but these will suffice for now. There are valid and very basic questions concering these facts and any competent investigation, seeking the truth would have sought to answer them. Now tell me, what were the findings of your congressional investigation regarding these facts? I will tell you what they are to save you the time it would take you to do a google search. The questions were completely ignored. They were never addressed. They became lost in the flurry of investigations.

Now, considering that these facts have never been addressed, and the obvious questions they prompt have never been answered on what basis, exactly, do you accept the story that you have apparently accepted?

And if you accept the findings from congress on these investigations considering that very important questions have not even been acknowledged, much less addressed, on what basis do you reject anything that the government tells you?

[palerider]

This whole debate is ridiculous. Three separate official investigations, one headed by Ken Starr, ruled Vince Foster's death a suicide. Yet I get the impression 300 investigations could rule his death a suicide and you wouldn't be happy.

A single investigation that addresses the troubing facts listed above would satisfy me. Maybe you can tell me what the findings were with regard to those very basic facts.

I suppose I could look back over your posts, but just let me ask, do you believe 9/11 was an inside job? Because it seems to me like you're just one of those people who loves conspiracy theories.

Feel free. You will find that I don't believe 9/11 was an inside job because the facts and evidence don't support the theory just like the facts and evidence don't support suicide in the case of vince foster's death.

[Coyote]

See how well all the investigations worked. After all that, you sit there thinking that it was about presidential infidelity. It was about perjury and the subject matter is completely irrelavent. If a person can decide what he will and will not tell the truth about under oath, then exactly what good is our legal system?


No, I never thought it was about presidential infidelity. I use that as a deliberate means of showing how ridiculous a fiasco the whole witchhunt turned into. It turned into an investigation of infidelity that ended with perjury. Do I agree with perjury? Hell no. But I also think the investigation should never have gotten to that point. I don't like Presidents who lie - including our current one who has been able to avoid most of the consequences to his lies by the collaboration of a friendly congress. But I also judge a President on more then just one action and I try to view it in context.

I don't deny Clinton has a character flaw. Ironically, some of of better presidents did, and it usually caused their fall. I'll use Nixon as an example - he was brilliant, and when it came to foreign affairs he excelled. But he had a serious character flaw.


Should I list off the number of convictions and prison sentences that came out that "wasted" money? You would have prefered that the criminials remain uncharged and working at the highest levels of government?


The investigation was taxpayer money spent on Clinton. Did Clinton get arrested or convicted or even indicted on anything? All those other convictions (and if you spend enough time on a large enough group of high profjile people you will probably uncover a number of crimes) - could they not have been done less expensively through other law enforcement agencies? How is it that all the scandals of the Bush administration were handled far less expensively and without an open-ended, multi-million dollar "special investigation"?


And do you need to be reminded that clinton was disbarred. Not for getting a bj but for comitting a crime? And considering that the evidence was overwhelming enough to get him disbarred but not convicted in congress, one must wonder if the clinton's illegal posession of 900 raw FBI files on political enemies, the families of political enemies, and those who may become political enemies had something to do with their reluctance to convict him on the overwhelming evidence.

He was disbarred for committing perjury - no more, no less. And he should have been. There was no overwelming evidence - believe me, if there was the GOP congress, and it's pet special interest groups who funded all this would have convicted him.

FBI files? Better check out a lot of Presidents if you are that naive. Including our current who legalized widespread domestic survellience that included potential leftwing enemies.


Pardon me, but I am not one to turn off my brain, and ignore facts because some congressmen tell me a thing whether I agree with them or not. They have apparently told you that vince was able to suspend the laws of physics and bypass human physiology for his suicide and you simply say OK?


Lets look at the facts.

1. It's not "some congessmen" - it's three independent investigations

2. You are looking at partial and out of context information and hearsay. Some conspiracy theorist claims were proved false - how do you know any of this is accurate if you haven't seen it first hand - and seen all of it?

3. Look at the money trail. Who and what is and has been funding all this despite evidence to the contrary as per 3 seperate independent investigations and a hostile congress eager to convict Clinton of anything.

I think you have turned off your brain to some common sense here....and I think it's because you hate Clinton so much:rolleyes:


I will be convinced when someone addresses the facts, rather than simply telling me to ignore them and believe what they say. You apparently place much stock in those investigations, and have based your position on their findings. So tell me, how did the investigations address the following facts:

* There was no blood or tissue on the gun or foster's hand and only a trickle of blood was noted running out of his mouth by the crime scene investigators. The force of a gunshot within the mouth blows back large amounts of blood and tissue.

* Fosters fingerprints were not found on the gun in his hand. Two fingerprints were found under the grips however, and no attempt was made to identify who they belonged to. Further, the gun was made of parts of at least two guns and there is neither any evidence that the gun belonged to foster, nor any evidence that it fired the fatal shot.

* The gunpowder residue found on fosters glasses, clothing, and in his mouth did not come from the gun in his hand.

* No skull fragments were ever found at the scene of the crime even though it is stated that he had a large exit wound in the back of his skull.


How do you know these are facts?


There are others, but these will suffice for now. There are valid and very basic questions concering these facts and any competent investigation, seeking the truth would have sought to answer them. Now tell me, what were the findings of your congressional investigation regarding these facts? I will tell you what they are to save you the time it would take you to do a google search. The questions were completely ignored. They were never addressed. They became lost in the flurry of investigations.


How do you know they are valid and that they were never addressed IF they were valid?

Just one example - there was a claim that there was NO EXIT WOUND. That has been debunked.


Now, considering that these facts have never been addressed, and the obvious questions they prompt have never been answered on what basis, exactly, do you accept the story that you have apparently accepted?

And if you accept the findings from congress on these investigations considering that very important questions have not even been acknowledged, much less addressed, on what basis do you reject anything that the government tells you?

It has nothing to do with what the government does or does not tell.

I happen to think three seperate investigations funded by groups and political players hostile to Clinton should have been able to come up with something if there was something to come up with.

It's called common sense.

[Coyote]

Truth or fiction fed by speculation and rumor?

Ok, so you can't trust any government sources, the FBI, the police, the medical examiner - well, here's a statement from ABC.



The common thread is that Foster was murdered someplace else, that his body was moved to this park above the Potomac where it was found. And feeding all this speculation, is more speculation. For instance, the rumor that there are no photographs of the scene. There are. ABC News has seen a complete set, including this one showing Foster's hand, his thumb caught in the trigger guard. Some rumors insist there was little or no blood on or around Foster's body. The grim and graphic photographs of the scene prove that is not true either. The White House itself may have fueled some of the rumors with its own incompetence in the hours after Foster's death. But there is little reason now to doubt that for whatever reason he may have had, the President's boyhood friend drove himself across the Potomac one afternoon last July and tragically took his own life. Jim Wooten ABC News Washington

[Coyote]

Feel free. You will find that I don't believe 9/11 was an inside job because the facts and evidence don't support the theory just like the facts and evidence don't support suicide in the case of vince foster's death.

I wonder...do you not believe 9/11 was an inside job because you are a supporter of the current administration? And are you all to willing to believe the worst of Clinton because you despised that administration?

Be honest now...

There are many inconsistancies surrounding 9/11 - but the majority of those inconsistencies are bunk, rumor, hearsay, and misinformation. It's a bit easier to confront because there is a lot more publically available information on such a big event. But - enough inconsistencies and remain to continue fueling speculation. Much like the Vince Foster suicide. Every investigation has inconsistencies - and no one here has seen the complete report or evidence. The investigations and congress would have been privy to that. The media was privy to a great deal as well. Some people suggest that pictures of the dead body should be publically available. I can only thing how ghastly and innappropriate to the family's sensitivities that would be to see it plastered all over the internet.

People are going by distorted rumour fed by rumour fed by rumour via the internet - what ever "facts" there were are long since gone. Just like 9/11.

[palerider]

I wonder...do you not believe 9/11 was an inside job because you are a supporter of the current administration? And are you all to willing to believe the worst of Clinton because you despised that administration?

Be honest now...


I have said that I believe clinton had something to do with foster's death, but that was just a belief based on no particular facts. My position that foster did not commit suicide, however, is based on the evidence. The bulk of the paperwork on the investigation is available and not just the bits and pieces presented here to prove certain points. The questions I have asked are valid, and they were not addressed and until they are, then in my mind, and adequate investegation has not been performed but rather a shuck and jive designed to fog the issue to the point that nothing could be resolved.

[top gun]

I wonder...do you not believe 9/11 was an inside job because you are a supporter of the current administration? And are you all to willing to believe the worst of Clinton because you despised that administration?

Be honest now...

There are many inconsistancies surrounding 9/11 - but the majority of those inconsistencies are bunk, rumor, hearsay, and misinformation. It's a bit easier to confront because there is a lot more publically available information on such a big event. But - enough inconsistencies and remain to continue fueling speculation. Much like the Vince Foster suicide. Every investigation has inconsistencies - and no one here has seen the complete report or evidence. The investigations and congress would have been privy to that. The media was privy to a great deal as well. Some people suggest that pictures of the dead body should be publically available. I can only thing how ghastly and innappropriate to the family's sensitivities that would be to see it plastered all over the internet.

People are going by distorted rumour fed by rumour fed by rumour via the internet - what ever "facts" there were are long since gone. Just like 9/11.

People can really come up with some ridiculous stuff sometimes.

The Clinton's killed Vince Foster. Bush was behind the 9-11 Trade Center attack (I'm surprised anyone believes that one. Bush can't even string together a coherent sentence half the time... but still all over the Internet he's the "master" planner! :D ).

I tried to tell a girlfriend I stood up on night that I was abducted by aliens on the way to pick her up. I told her I was driving down this secluded street on the way to her house and all the sudden there was this blinding bright light over the car... and the next thing I knew it was 7:00 in the morning and I was in the back seat of my car along the side of the road... :)

Appears strippers must be pretty smart after all... smarter than a lot of people it appears... even she wouldn't fall for some far fetched, far out ridiculous story like these. As I remember we did both get a big laugh out of my alien story though.

That's what the Clinton killed Foster story is... a good laugh that a stripper could see through... for people's stupidity.

[Truth-Bringer]

People can really come up with some ridiculous stuff sometimes.

That's what the Clinton killed Foster story is... a good laugh that a stripper could see through... for people's stupidity.

Then why are you still here defending it, if it is so easily seen through? Why is your buddy coyote here on a non-stop rampage to defend it?

[Truth-Bringer]

For instance, the rumor that there are no photographs of the scene. There are. ABC News has seen a complete set, including this one showing Foster's hand, his thumb caught in the trigger guard. Some rumors insist there was little or no blood on or around Foster's body. The grim and graphic photographs of the scene prove that is not true either. The White House itself may have fueled some of the rumors with its own incompetence in the hours after Foster's death. But there is little reason now to doubt that for whatever reason he may have had, the President's boyhood friend drove himself across the Potomac one afternoon last July and tragically took his own life. Jim Wooten ABC News Washington

The point is, on the photo we can see, there's no blood where there should be lots of blood. As far as what we can't see, I'm not going to take ABC's word for it. That's just another hearsay assertion.

And as far as their claim that "that wraps it up folks" - WRONG. The fact that 3 experts - whose reports are publically available and can be questioned by any handwriting expert in the world - AND HAVE NOT BEEN ATTACKED IN ANY WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM AS BEING INACCURATE - concluded that the suicide note was forged simply does not support a suicide. If the suicide is authentic, there's no need to fake anything - the evidence will stand on its own.

[Truth-Bringer]

See how well all the investigations worked. After all that, you sit there thinking that it was about presidential infidelity. It was about perjury and the subject matter is completely irrelavent. If a person can decide what he will and will not tell the truth about under oath, then exactly what good is our legal system?

Should I list off the number of convictions and prison sentences that came out that "wasted" money? You would have prefered that the criminials remain uncharged and working at the highest levels of government?

And do you need to be reminded that clinton was disbarred. Not for getting a bj but for comitting a crime?

Good points. Let's look at the criminality of those within Clinton's administration and those he "did business with":

List 6: Criminals: (http://members.tripod.com/~GOPcapitalist/clintonpage.html) All these people have served prison sentences for illegal activity in a Clinton scandal. They either were convicted or pled guilty. There are over 15 convictions/guilty pleas from Starr's investigation plus several others from other scandal investigations.

# Whitewater:

* AK Gov. Jim Guy Tucker - fraud felony convictions - 3 counts (Tucker resigned facing impeachment)
* Jim McDougal - fraud and conspiracy felony convictions - 18 counts
* Susan McDougal - felony - 4 counts (pardoned during Clinton's last minute pardongate payoffs)
* William J. Marks Sr - conspiracy
* Stephen Smith - conspiracy
* Larry Kuca - Fraud
* Neal Ainley - 2 misdemeanors for embezzlement
* David Hale - guilty plea - conspiracy
* Chris Wade - felony - Whitewater real-estate investor
* John Haley - recent! 1998 on fraud
* Robert Palmer - felony for conspiracy
* Charles Matthews - guilty plea for bribery
* Eugene Fitzhugh - Whitewater - bribery
* Webster Hubbell - #2 ranking Justice Dept. Official - felony for embezzlement and fraud
* John Latham - CEO of Madison Bank - bank fraud

# Campaign Finance:

* Johnny Chung - Clinton cronie - felony guilty plea - funneling money from China
* Gene Lum - convicted - felony for money laundering for the DNC
* Nora Lum - convicted - felony for money laundering for the DNC
* Howard Glicken - guilty plea - 2 midemeanors - funneling foreign donations
* Yah Lin "Charlie" Trie - guilty plea - illegal Clinton campaign donations
* John Huang - Clinton cronie - felony guilty plea - funneling money from China

# Paula Jonesgate:

# William Jefferson Clinton - found guilty - civil contempt of court - lying under oath about material facts. The Office of the Independent Council further presented Clinton with an agreement that had him disbarred from practicing law for 5 years and made him signed statement admitting to his deception

[Truth-Bringer]

There's no need for the video to have existed. Why was he beaten after he publically announced he had a video tape of Clinton leaving Gennifer Flowers' apartment by people he'd never seen before? Why was the crime unsolved? Why was no one ever arrested? Why was no other motive ever investigated?


You guys ever going to address these questions?

[Popeye]

Good points. Let's look at the criminality of those within Clinton's administration and those he "did business with":

List 6: Criminals: (http://members.tripod.com/~GOPcapitalist/clintonpage.html) All these people have served prison sentences for illegal activity in a Clinton scandal. They either were convicted or pled guilty. There are over 15 convictions/guilty pleas from Starr's investigation plus several others from other scandal investigations.

# Whitewater:

* AK Gov. Jim Guy Tucker - fraud felony convictions - 3 counts (Tucker resigned facing impeachment)
* Jim McDougal - fraud and conspiracy felony convictions - 18 counts
* Susan McDougal - felony - 4 counts (pardoned during Clinton's last minute pardongate payoffs)
* William J. Marks Sr - conspiracy
* Stephen Smith - conspiracy
* Larry Kuca - Fraud
* Neal Ainley - 2 misdemeanors for embezzlement
* David Hale - guilty plea - conspiracy
* Chris Wade - felony - Whitewater real-estate investor
* John Haley - recent! 1998 on fraud
* Robert Palmer - felony for conspiracy
* Charles Matthews - guilty plea for bribery
* Eugene Fitzhugh - Whitewater - bribery
* Webster Hubbell - #2 ranking Justice Dept. Official - felony for embezzlement and fraud
* John Latham - CEO of Madison Bank - bank fraud

# Campaign Finance:

* Johnny Chung - Clinton cronie - felony guilty plea - funneling money from China
* Gene Lum - convicted - felony for money laundering for the DNC
* Nora Lum - convicted - felony for money laundering for the DNC
* Howard Glicken - guilty plea - 2 midemeanors - funneling foreign donations
* Yah Lin "Charlie" Trie - guilty plea - illegal Clinton campaign donations
* John Huang - Clinton cronie - felony guilty plea - funneling money from China

# Paula Jonesgate:

# William Jefferson Clinton - found guilty - civil contempt of court - lying under oath about material facts. The Office of the Independent Council further presented Clinton with an agreement that had him disbarred from practicing law for 5 years and made him signed statement admitting to his deception What's the point? Both parties are awash in campaign finance irregularities. It doesn't further your case for Vince Foster being murdered.

Admit it now, you just are one of those people who can't resist conspiracy theories. As I understand, it's classified as an actual addiction. No harm done, one day you might actually be right, just not today.

[Coyote]

Then why are you still here defending it, if it is so easily seen through? Why is your buddy coyote here on a non-stop rampage to defend it?

Non-stop rampage? That's hyperbole for you. Typical response when anyone questions your theories.

I can see the headlines now: Clintonistas fight to suppress the Truth:eek:

[Coyote]