HRW: Israeli Indiscriminate Attacks Killed Most Leb Civilian

[Untouchable]

They finally exposed the truth after long investigation:
(Jerusalem, September 6, 2007) – Israel’s indiscriminate airstrikes, not Hezbollah’s shielding as claimed by Israeli officials, caused most of the approximately 900 civilian deaths in Lebanon during the July-August 2006 war between Israel and Hezbollah, Human Rights Watch said in a report released today. Human Rights Watch investigated more than 500 of the deaths.

The 249-page report, “Why They Died: Civilian Casualties in Lebanon during the 2006 War,” represents the most extensive investigation to date of civilian deaths in Lebanon during the war. In five months of research, Human Rights Watch investigated 94 cases of air, artillery and ground attacks by the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) to discern the circumstances surrounding the deaths of 510 civilians and 51 combatants, nearly half the at least 1,109 Lebanese deaths during the conflict.
Human Rights Watch visited more than 50 Lebanese villages and interviewed 316 victims and eyewitnesses, as well as 39 military experts, journalists and Israeli, Lebanese government and Hezbollah officials.
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2007/09/06/isrlpa16781.htm
300 children and women!
Of course targeting next generation(children) is easier than fighting hezballah soldiers.

Should israelis be punished now? especially when we know that stuffs such Phosphorous Bombs were massively used
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article14208.htm
http://images.usatoday.com/news/_photos/2006/08/08/beirut-topper.jpg

[BigRob]

They finally exposed the truth after long investigation:

300 children and women!
Of course targeting next generation(children) is easier than fighting hezballah soldiers.

Should israelis be punished now? especially when we know that stuffs such Phosphorous Bombs were massively used
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article14208.htm
http://images.usatoday.com/news/_photos/2006/08/08/beirut-topper.jpg

No, they should not be punished, especially not by the United States. The US really cannot punish them anyway. We can't follow the doctrine of calling me people terrorists and invading, and then blast Israel for doing the same. Keep in mind why Israel even launched this operation, in response for kidnappings and other terrorist activity.

Also, personally I think Israel punished themselves enough by even invading. It was a major PR victory for Hezbollah, but on top of that look at the statistics in Lebanon before the Invasion.

Hezbollah was almost totally confined the South of Lebanon and the majority of Lebanese people actually had an unfavorable view of Hezbollah. After the Israel operations, the majority of people had a much more favorable view of Hezbollah in Lebanon. Israel should have limited themselves in their retaliation because Hezbollah had been all burt marginalized in Lebanon, and it was not until the war that the majority of Lebanon united behind Hezbollah and against Israel, and scoring Hezbollah a major PR victory and tons of influence in Lebanon.

Personally, it was pretty smart for Hezbollah to provoke this, because anyone really looking at the situation could have predicted that this was going to happen.

[Reliant]

They finally exposed the truth after long investigation:

300 children and women!
Of course targeting next generation(children) is easier than fighting hezballah soldiers.


Children are the sometimes harder to kill than adults. While riding in one of the new Israeli gunships a reporter noticed the soldier on the 50 cal. door gun mowing down children who were running like crazy. When the reporter asked the IDF soldier "How can you kill children that are running like that"?
His answer was simple and concise.... he replied, "You just lead them a little more".

All joking aside, the genocide of Palestinian children will assure the next generation will not exist. The Israeli "final solution" for the Palestinians and Lebanese has been refined since the last "final solution".

[BigRob]

Children are the sometimes harder to kill than adults. While riding in one of the new Israeli gunships a reporter noticed the soldier on the 50 cal. door gun mowing down children who were running like crazy. When the reporter asked the IDF soldier "How can you kill children that are running like that"?
His answer was simple and concise.... he replied, "You just lead them a little more".

All joking aside, the genocide of Palestinian children will assure the next generation will not exist. The Israeli "final solution" for the Palestinians and Lebanese has been refined since the last "final solution".

Except for the fact that the Israel population is stagnating and shrinking and the Palestinian one is growing by large amounts. Its actually the other way around.

[Reliant]

Except for the fact that the Israel population is stagnating and shrinking and the Palestinian one is growing by large amounts. Its actually the other way around.

That's the outstanding brilliance behind this refined "final solution", kill the children before they have a chance to reproduce thus eliminating any chance of conflict down the road.

From rememberthesechildren.org - "From September 29, 2000, when the current Palestinian intifada erupted, through March 27, 2007, at least 952 Palestinian and 118 Israeli youths under the age of 18 were killed in Israel and the occupied Palestinian territories. Thousands more have been injured, many permanently".
You don't have to be Schitsack Rabin to figure that a genocide that eliminates Palestinian children at a ratio of about 8 to 1 will do the trick for ya just fine. Although, we may have to send a couple more cargo ships laden with munitions to help them out.

[BigRob]

That's the outstanding brilliance behind this refined "final solution", kill the children before they have a chance to reproduce thus eliminating any chance of conflict down the road.

From rememberthesechildren.org - "From September 29, 2000, when the current Palestinian intifada erupted, through March 27, 2007, at least 952 Palestinian and 118 Israeli youths under the age of 18 were killed in Israel and the occupied Palestinian territories. Thousands more have been injured, many permanently".
You don't have to be Schitsack Rabin to figure that a genocide that eliminates Palestinian children at a ratio of about 8 to 1 will do the trick for ya just fine. Although, we may have to send a couple more cargo ships laden with munitions to help them out.

The Israeli population growth rate as of 2007 is 1.1%

The population growth rate on the Gaze Strip is 3.3% and in the West Bank is 2.9%

Take a look at population breakdown for these three areas.

West Bank
0-14 years: 42.4% (male 551,243/female 524,800)
15-64 years: 54.2% (male 704,209/female 670,382)
65 years and over: 3.4% (male 36,175/female 49,118) (2007 est.)

Gaza Strip
0-14 years: 47.6% (male 361,115/female 344,236)
15-64 years: 49.9% (male 377,927/female 361,824)
65 years and over: 2.5% (male 15,454/female 21,849) (2007 est.)

Israel
0-14 years: 26.1% (male 858,246/female 818,690)
15-64 years: 64.2% (male 2,076,649/female 2,046,343)
65 years and over: 9.8% (male 269,483/female 357,268) (2007 est.)


Looking at these stats it is clearly evident that Israels population is shrinking and growing older and reproducing much slower. While the others have almost equal amounts in the lower age brackets, and have much higher growth rates. Sorry, but 900 dead youths cannot undo this trend. The facts are pretty clear in this case.

[Reliant]

Do these figures reflect the millions of Palestinian refugees that try to return to their homeland? Or the thousands that are excluded from their homes by an illegal apartheid wall?
Better yet, post where these figures came from if you will.

[BigRob]

Do these figures reflect the millions of Palestinian refugees that try to return to their homeland? Or the thousands that are excluded from their homes by an illegal apartheid wall?
Better yet, post where these figures came from if you will.

They are the CIA figures on the area as of 2007. You can find them here.

Figures (https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/is.html#People)

[BigRob]

Do these figures reflect the millions of Palestinian refugees that try to return to their homeland? Or the thousands that are excluded from their homes by an illegal apartheid wall?
Better yet, post where these figures came from if you will.

And if they do not include the millions trying to return home, then that is even more Palestinians and still a stagnating Israeli population.

[USMC the Almighty]

Children are the sometimes harder to kill than adults. While riding in one of the new Israeli gunships a reporter noticed the soldier on the 50 cal. door gun mowing down children who were running like crazy. When the reporter asked the IDF soldier "How can you kill children that are running like that"?
His answer was simple and concise.... he replied, "You just lead them a little more".

That's a line from Full Metal Jacket. You shouldn't believe everything you read.

[Reliant]

That's a line from Full Metal Jacket. You shouldn't believe everything you read.

I don't, hence the reply to the original post.:D

[Reliant]

They are the CIA figures on the area as of 2007. You can find them here.

Figures (https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/is.html#People)

Thanks bro. I see these figures were supplied by the CIA. Is this the same CIA that supplied Bush with the intelligence on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction?

[USMC the Almighty]

Thanks bro. I see these figures were supplied by the CIA. Is this the same CIA that supplied Bush with the intelligence on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction?

How convenient it would be if we could just dismiss facts because we didn't like the source.

[Reliant]

How convenient it would be if we could just dismiss facts because we didn't like the source.

Perhaps "facts" from Al Jazeera would be more to your liking? In one post you say I shouldn't believe everything I read, yet in the next you say I shouldn't dismiss anything the CIA tell me. Do you believe everything the CIA disseminates?

[BigRob]

Thanks bro. I see these figures were supplied by the CIA. Is this the same CIA that supplied Bush with the intelligence on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction?

What possible reason can you come up with to claim the CIA is not a valid source? And what possible gain does the CIA have by changing the numbers around?

This is ridiculous, the CIA is a credible source used around the world for statistics such as this.

This is not some counter-intelligence operation, its just a factbook about the world. The CIA is not giving out false info about population counts, there is no reason.

[Reliant]

It seems the Israeli Central Bureau of Statistics doesn't quite agree with the CIA statistics. :D

"The Israeli population is considered relatively young. Children aged 0-14 make up 28 percent of the population, compared to 17 percent in other western countries. On the other hand, Israel’s older population bridges the gap, with adults aged 65 and above comprising 10 percent of the population, compared to 15 percent in other western countries".

Perhaps you could send a link to the CIA so they don't always get it wrong. It seems like a good site and includes such things as...

2.1 Population, by Religion and Population Group
2.2 Sources of Population Growth
2.3 Jewish Population in the World and in Israel
2.4 Population Density per Sq. Km. of Land, by District and Sub-District
2.5 Sources of Population Growth, by District, Population Group and Religion

[BigRob]

It seems the Israeli Central Bureau of Statistics doesn't quite agree with the CIA statistics. :D

"The Israeli population is considered relatively young. Children aged 0-14 make up 28 percent of the population, compared to 17 percent in other western countries. On the other hand, Israel’s older population bridges the gap, with adults aged 65 and above comprising 10 percent of the population, compared to 15 percent in other western countries".

Perhaps you could send a link to the CIA so they don't always get it wrong. It seems like a good site and includes such things as...

2.1 Population, by Religion and Population Group
2.2 Sources of Population Growth
2.3 Jewish Population in the World and in Israel
2.4 Population Density per Sq. Km. of Land, by District and Sub-District
2.5 Sources of Population Growth, by District, Population Group and Religion

Uhm, I suggest going back and looking at the stats I posted again please. These are identical.

[BigRob]

Here they are again for Israel for a reference.
0-14 years: 26.1% (male 858,246/female 818,690) (you say 28%)
15-64 years: 64.2% (male 2,076,649/female 2,046,343) (you say 65%)
65 years and over: 9.8% (male 269,483/female 357,268) (you say 10%)

These are identical to your posted stats. And also, the Israeli Bureau of Statistics brings up another good point to back up my original claim. Look at the Arab growth rates inside of Israel compared to the Israeli growth rates. Over two times as high.

[Reliant]

....... Look at the Arab growth rates inside of Israel compared to the Israeli growth rates. Over two times as high.
Yes, from time to time there is good news from the Middle East.

I was not contesting the numbers, I was contesting your statement....

Except for the fact that the Israel population is stagnating and shrinking and the Palestinian one is growing by large amounts. Its actually the other way around.

[BigRob]

Yes, from time to time there is good news from the Middle East.

I was not contesting the numbers, I was contesting your statement....

Look at the Israeli population growth, its 1.1% compared to the 2.9% population growth of Arabs within Israel and 2.9% in the West Band and 3.6% in the West Bank.

The numbers clearly show that, there is no Israeli plan to kill off all the children of Arabs and somehow rid the area of these people, the population growth rates are clear here.

[Reliant]

Look at the Israeli population growth, its 1.1% compared to the 2.9% population growth of Arabs within Israel and 2.9% in the West Band and 3.6% in the West Bank.

The numbers clearly show that, there is no Israeli plan to kill off all the children of Arabs and somehow rid the area of these people, the population growth rates are clear here.

Then the Israeli population is not stagnating. It is growing at a pretty good rate. Now did you mean the Jewish population is stagnating or the Israeli population is stagnating? Or do you think that only Jews are Israeli?

[BigRob]

Then the Israeli population is not stagnating. It is growing at a pretty good rate. Now did you mean the Jewish population is stagnating or the Israeli population is stagnating? Or do you think that only Jews are Israeli?

I mean that the Jewish are becoming the minority in Israel, which the numbers show. Which clearly refutes your claim that the Jews are somehow killing off the entire Palestinian and Arab younger generations.

[9sublime]

Had Palestine done this attack on Israel, they would be being accused by of terrorism. As soon as Israel does it, its OK to kill children, its a tactical manouvre.

[Untouchable]

Indeed Palestinians are expected to outnumber Israelis in less than twenty years, that means the hebrew state could one day vanish in a hail not of bullets!!

That's what may explain the target of children and the latest demolition of homes around Jerusalem.

Israel in danger of defeat by demographics, editor says

JOE MULLIN
Bulletin Correspondent

Israel is facing a demographic change that could be "cataclysmic" in the next five to 10 years, according to David Landau, editor of the English edition of Israel's Ha'aretz newspaper.

Landau discussed the challenges facing Israel and the American Jewish community Sunday during "A Celebration of Jewish Learning in the Bay Area," organized by the University of Judaism in honor of Israel's 55th birthday. The symposium, held at Congregation Beth Israel-Judea in San Francisco, was co-sponsored by the Jewish Community Relations Council.

[Reliant]

I mean that the Jewish are becoming the minority in Israel, which the numbers show. Which clearly refutes your claim that the Jews are somehow killing off the entire Palestinian and Arab younger generations.

Comprehension does not seem to be your strong point, bro. I never made any claim that the "Jews are somehow killing off the entire Palestinian and Arab younger generations".

I said, and I quote, "the genocide of Palestinian children will assure the next generation will not exist. The Israeli "final solution" for the Palestinians and Lebanese has been refined since the last "final solution".

To which you replied "Except for the fact that the Israel population is stagnating and shrinking and the Palestinian one is growing by large amounts. Its actually the other way around".

Never was the word "Jew" mentioned until you started to backpedal on your ridiculous assertion that the Israeli population was stagnating. I believe you meant that the Zionist Jewish population was stagnating, and to be quite honest, this is a good thing.

[BigRob]

Comprehension does not seem to be your strong point, bro. I never made any claim that the "Jews are somehow killing off the entire Palestinian and Arab younger generations".

I said, and I quote, "the genocide of Palestinian children will assure the next generation will not exist. The Israeli "final solution" for the Palestinians and Lebanese has been refined since the last "final solution".

To which you replied "Except for the fact that the Israel population is stagnating and shrinking and the Palestinian one is growing by large amounts. Its actually the other way around".

Never was the word "Jew" mentioned until you started to backpedal on your ridiculous assertion that the Israeli population was stagnating. I believe you meant that the Zionist Jewish population was stagnating, and to be quite honest, this is a good thing.


You referred to 900 deaths as a genocide, that is ridiculous. You said Israel is ensuring that the next generation of Palestinian children will not exist, which is ridiculous, as the Israeli population, in comparison to the Palestinian population (and the Arab population in Israel), is indeed not growing at the same rates and quickly becoming the minority.

In 1-2 generations the Israelis will be the minority in the region. Most Israeli's are Jews for the record, so fine I made a generalization, it does not change the fact that your statement of a so-called "final solution" for palestinian children is ridiculous and wrong.

[Reliant]

You referred to 900 deaths as a genocide, that is ridiculous. You said Israel is ensuring that the next generation of Palestinian children will not exist, which is ridiculous, as the Israeli population, in comparison to the Palestinian population (and the Arab population in Israel), is indeed not growing at the same rates and quickly becoming the minority.

In 1-2 generations the Israelis will be the minority in the region. Most Israeli's are Jews for the record, so fine I made a generalization, it does not change the fact that your statement of a so-called "final solution" for palestinian children is ridiculous and wrong.

I never stated the Israeli genocide of Palestinians was a "fact", it was an opinion, just as you assertion that the murder of unarmed Palestinians is not a genocide. And we all know that opinions are like rectums.... everybody has one. However, my opinion is based on facts, yours is based on emotion.

Lets take a look.....

http://www.ifamericaknew.org/images/deaths-index.gif

1,024 Israelis and at least 4,228 Palestinians have been killed since September 29, 2000.

http://www.ifamericaknew.org/images/injuries-index.gif

7,633 Israelis and 31,531 Palestinians have been injured since September 29, 2000

http://www.ifamericaknew.org/images/un.gif

Israel has been targeted by at least 65 UN resolutions and the Palestinians have been targeted by none

http://www.ifamericaknew.org/images/prisoners.gif

1 Israeli is being held prisoner by Palestinians, while 10,756 Palestinians are currently imprisoned by Israel.

-continued next post-

[Reliant]

http://www.ifamericaknew.org/images/homes.gif

0 Israeli homes have been demolished by Palestinians and 4,170 Palestinian homes have been demolished by Israel since September 29, 2000

http://www.ifamericaknew.org/images/settlemnts.gif

Israel currently has 223 Jewish-only settlements and ‘outposts’ built on confiscated Palestinian land. Palestinians do not have any settlements on Israeli land.

“The majority of these [Palestinian] children were killed and injured while going about normal daily activities, such as going to school, playing, shopping, or simply being in their homes. Sixty-four percent of children killed during the first six months of 2003 died as a result of Israeli air and ground attacks, or from indiscriminate fire from Israeli soldiers.”
- From: Rememberthesechildren.org


If it not a genocide (the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group) then what name would you put on it?