The Greater Israel Map ; Zoom!

[Untouchable]

At the first time I thought it was a joke!; but it seems a real plan, a special road map, posted in hebrew site:
http://maof.rjews.net/pictures/graniz/image001.jpg

http://avrom.livejournal.com/116574.html

another quote from a zionist website:
You need this land and it needs you, many of you.
Millions of new Jews pouring into Israel will fill up its empty spaces,
guarantee the retention of all the liberated lands of
Judea, Samaria, Golan, Gaza, and Sinai;
assure a vast Jewish majority; add Western democratic
and technical skills to the land.
Eretz Yisrael will never again be lost to us!
http://ahavat-israel.com/eretz/index.php

another interesting article by John Mitchell Henshaw:

Nearly 34 years ago, an America-firster used The American Mercury magazine to warn of the danger posed by Zionism and its rule of Washington and the Mideast. John Henshaw wrote this article shortly after Israel laid claim to the annexed land during 1967 Arab-Israeli war. This article first appeared in the spring of 1968.

the article:
http://www.mediamonitors.net/johnhenshaw1.html
http://pl.indymedia.org/images/2004/03/4218.png


In other hand, this essay is by Israel Shahak:

The Zionist Plan for the Middle East

Translated and edited by
Israel Shahak

The following essay represents, in my opinion, the accurate and detailed plan of the present Zionist regime (of Sharon and Eitan) for the Middle East which is based on the division of the whole area into small states, and the dissolution of all the existing Arab states. I will comment on the military aspect of this plan in a concluding note. Here I want to draw the attention of the readers to several important points:

1. The idea that all the Arab states should be broken down, by Israel, into small units, occurs again and again in Israeli strategic thinking. For example, Ze'ev Schiff, the military correspondent of Ha'aretz (and probably the most knowledgeable in Israel, on this topic) writes about the "best" that can happen for Israeli interests in Iraq: "The dissolution of Iraq into a Shi'ite state, a Sunni state and the separation of the Kurdish part" (Ha'aretz 6/2/1982). Actually, this aspect of the plan is very old.

2. The strong connection with Neo-Conservative thought in the USA is very prominent, especially in the author's notes. But, while lip service is paid to the idea of the "defense of the West" from Soviet power, the real aim of the author, and of the present Israeli establishment is clear: To make an Imperial Israel into a world power. In other words, the aim of Sharon is to deceive the Americans after he has deceived all the rest.
A complete document:

http://www.sweetliberty.org/issues/israel/greater_israel.shtml


What can you expect when you see those real facts; which kind of peace we are involving with?!

what can you expect from a state without boundaries?!

Google earth should be immediately updated!

[USMC the Almighty]

Untouchable, eventually you are going to have to post something other than anti-Israel/anti-Jew material. Your presence is welcomed here but not if you're sole purpose is to rail against the "Zionists" day in and day out. Try diversifying a little bit.

[Reliant]

what can you expect from a state without boundaries?!

Google earth should be immediately updated!

They have boundaries, they just haven't found them yet.

Don't get me wrong, I believe the Jews should have a homeland and should be treated like everyone else. The problem is Zionism and you will find millions of Jews who will agree that Zionism has done more to hurt the Jewish culture than just about anything else. But the theft of land from your neighbors is completely unacceptable everywhere..... except israel.
http://www.palestine.org.nz/images/landgrab.jpg

Get back to the borders agreed to when Israel was created, do not cross the green line, and if you want to put up an apartheid wall then do it on your own land. Are we asking to much?

[USMC the Almighty]

Get back to the borders agreed to when Israel was created, do not cross the green line, and if you want to put up an apartheid wall then do it on your own land. Are we asking to much?

Hey, Israel was perfectly fine with their borders until 6 Arab countries decided to attack the day after Israel was founded. They lost and Israel took some of their land. That's how war works.

Then they cry and beg to get their land back, Israel gives it to them and they go and attack again. 100% of the blame for Israel's land grabs deserves to be placed on the shoulders of Lebanon, Jordan, Syria, Egypt, Iran, and Saudi Arabia.

[Untouchable]

Untouchable, eventually you are going to have to post something other than anti-Israel/anti-Jew material. Your presence is welcomed here but not if you're sole purpose is to rail against the "Zionists" day in and day out. Try diversifying a little bit.

OK; I will do

[USMC the Almighty]

OK; I will do

Much appreciated.

[Reliant]

Hey, Israel was perfectly fine with their borders until 6 Arab countries decided to attack the day after Israel was founded. They lost and Israel took some of their land. That's how war works.
Not since civilization came up with something called the Geneva Conventions. And remember, today it is clear that Israel's future as a Jewish state depends on ending its rule of the occupied territories.

Then they cry and beg to get their land back, Israel gives it to them and they go and attack again. 100% of the blame for Israel's land grabs deserves to be placed on the shoulders of Lebanon, Jordan, Syria, Egypt, Iran, and Saudi Arabia.

Not a chance. The Arab countries in the region can take full responsibility for the plight of the Palestinian refugees, and if Israel wanted a buffer zone then it should be on Arab land. But to steal the land and put up barriers that force farmers to walk miles and miles to tend their crops is just plain offensive. Now that we have got that little tidbit taken care of, do you really think the Middle East will ever reach some sort of normalcy as long as Israel is grabbing privately owned Palestinian land, bulldozing privately owned homes, and murdering unarmed citizens? Not a chance.

[USMC the Almighty]

Not since civilization came up with something called the Geneva Conventions. And remember, today it is clear that Israel's future as a Jewish state depends on ending its rule of the occupied territories.

Not a chance. The Arab countries in the region can take full responsibility for the plight of the Palestinian refugees, and if Israel wanted a buffer zone then it should be on Arab land. But to steal the land and put up barriers that force farmers to walk miles and miles to tend their crops is just plain offensive. Now that we have got that little tidbit taken care of, do you really think the Middle East will ever reach some sort of normalcy as long as Israel is grabbing privately owned Palestinian land, bulldozing privately owned homes, and murdering unarmed citizens? Not a chance.

So it's Israel's fault that the Arab countries keep attacking them, despite concession after concession. Any relatively smart person can see that the surroundingArab countries are always trying to accept yesterday's deal.

The Arabs don't like Israel's borders in 1948 and so they attack. Then Israel beats them and take a little land. Then all of the sudden they want to just go back to the pre-invasion boundaries. It's a cycle. In 1967, they want the 1948 treaty that Israel offered. In 1973, they're okay with the 1967 proposal. And on and on.

[Reliant]

So it's Israel's fault that the Arab countries keep attacking them, despite concession after concession. Any relatively smart person can see that the surroundingArab countries are always trying to accept yesterday's deal.
And what concessions are you referring to? I see lots of people asking for concessions, but i have yet to see any concessions with any real substance.

The Arabs don't like Israel's borders in 1948 and so they attack. Then Israel beats them and take a little land. Then all of the sudden they want to just go back to the pre-invasion boundaries. It's a cycle. In 1967, they want the 1948 treaty that Israel offered. In 1973, they're okay with the 1967 proposal. And on and on.

Israel has been stealing Palestinian land since 1947. All one needs to do is look at maps to see who has been stealing from whom. Where does it stop, when Israel reaches the Jordan River?

[USMC the Almighty]

And what concessions are you referring to? I see lots of people asking for concessions, but i have yet to see any concessions with any real substance.

Such as giving the land back won in a war of Arab aggression. Examples would be turning the Gaza Strip back over to the Palestinians.

Israel has been stealing Palestinian land since 1947. All one needs to do is look at maps to see who has been stealing from whom. Where does it stop, when Israel reaches the Jordan River?

It stops when the Arab countries accept the existence of Israel and decides that they would rather coincide peacefully than launch intifada after intifada with the goal of "pushing the Zionists into the Mediterranean Sea".

[Reliant]

Such as giving the land back won in a war of Arab aggression. Examples would be turning the Gaza Strip back over to the Palestinians.
How is giving something back to the rightful owner even remotely considered a "concession"?

It stops when the Arab countries accept the existence of Israel and decides that they would rather coincide peacefully than launch intifada after intifada with the goal of "pushing the Zionists into the Mediterranean Sea".

And how do the Palestinians stop the radicals and fanatics if they have no infrastructure to carry it out? If there was suddenly a crime wave in New York, do you think it would be wise to hold back funds to the ELECTED Government, cut off their water and blockade the ports? Something has to give my friend, and I honestly am starting to believe that as long as Israel is in a struggle, American taxpayers will be forced to give them $billions$ every year. How much incentive do they really have to quit?

[USMC the Almighty]

How is giving something back to the rightful owner even remotely considered a "concession"?

Here's how it works:

(1) Israel has land.
(2) Arabs want Israel's land.
(3) Arabs attack Israel for said land.
(4) Israel defeats invading Arabs.
(5) In the process of war, Israel takes a more land.
(6) Arabs jump and scream about Israel taking more land.
(7) HERE'S THE CONCESSION: Israel says it will give land back if Arabs promise not to attack any more.
(8) Arabs say they won't attack any more.
(9) Roughly three years later, Arbas invade Israel again.

Repeat for 59 years and you have the essence of the Israeli-Arab conflict.


And how do the Palestinians stop the radicals and fanatics if they have no infrastructure to carry it out? If there was suddenly a crime wave in New York, do you think it would be wise to hold back funds to the ELECTED Government, cut off their water and blockade the ports?

I don't understand how this is relevant.

[Reliant]

You must have missed the Arab initiative, drafted at a March 2002 meeting of the Arab League in Beirut, which calls for the full normalization of ties between Israel and the Arab world in return for a complete Israeli withdrawal from all lands captured in the 1967 Six-Day War.

"The plan, first made public in a February interview with the New York Times, proposes that the Arab world would fully recognize and normalize relations with Israel in exchange for a withdrawal to the borders that existed before the 1967 Six Day war, when Israel captured the West Bank and East Jerusalem from Jordan, the Gaza Strip and the Sinai Peninsula from Egypt, and the Golan Heights from Syria.
"The plan rapidly garnered wide support in the Arab world, and has won guarded praise from traditional Mideast mediator Washington. Israel, meanwhile, has generally welcomed the Saudi initiative, but rightists have ruled out any concession on the stipulation that the Jewish state return to its pre-war borders".

It seems the Arabs are fine with the Green Line borders, its the right-wing Israelis that have the problem. And btw, we are talking about a Saudi proposal that all Arab League nations agreed to, not just the Palestinians.

[USMC the Almighty]

You must have missed the Arab initiative, drafted at a March 2002 meeting of the Arab League in Beirut, which calls for the full normalization of ties between Israel and the Arab world in return for a complete Israeli withdrawal from all lands captured in the 1967 Six-Day War.


I'm just going to quote myself here: the surrounding Arab countries are always trying to accept yesterday's deal. They should've thought about this before attacking in 1967. They lost and they have to deal with the consequences of losing military conflicts. I don't feel bad for them at all.

[9sublime]

What about if their attack in the first place was justified?

[USMC the Almighty]

What about if their attack in the first place was justified?

I don't think it really matters whether the initial attack is justifiable or not. When you start a war and lose, you must deal with the consequences. In this case, it's the loss of land.

[Reliant]

What about if their attack in the first place was justified?

An Arab attack is never justified. They should just sit back while Israel takes their land, kills their children, and bulldozed their homes. Or at least that's what some believe. I wonder if the US Military would just sit on their collective asses if someone started to do the same to us. Well, if its Israel we would.... remember the USS Liberty? Israel killed 34 American sailors and we did nothing.
When we spoke out against South African apartheid it put an end to this uncivilized behavior, when Reagan said "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall", we all cheered and down came a partition that divided a nation. But when it comes to Israel we accept apartheid and help build a wall. It isn't difficult to see that its AIPAC, not the American taxpayer, who sets American Policy when it come to Israel.

[Untouchable]

A partial Jewish State is not the end, but only the beginning. I am certain that we can not be prevented from settling in the other parts of the country and the region.

David Ben Gurion-1937

"The Promised Land extends from the River of Egypt to the Euphrates. It includes parts of Syria and Lebanon
Rabbi Fischmann,member of the Jewish Agency for Palestine, in his testimony to the U.N. Special Committee of Enquiry, 1947

[Lasher]

OK; I will do

Untouchable: I, personally, think you're doing the world a service by exposing the machinations of the Zionist New World Order gang. Thank you.

[Lasher]

A partial Jewish State is not the end, but only the beginning. I am certain that we can not be prevented from settling in the other parts of the country and the region.

David Ben Gurion-1937

"The Promised Land extends from the River of Egypt to the Euphrates. It includes parts of Syria and Lebanon
Rabbi Fischmann,member of the Jewish Agency for Palestine, in his testimony to the U.N. Special Committee of Enquiry, 1947

The present Foreign Minister of Israel, Tzipi Livni, whose father was a Zionist terrorist who was a leader in the Irgun Gang and took part in the bombing of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem in 1946, had a map of "Greater Israel" carved on her father's gravestone that looks exactly like the one shown in this thread "from the Mediterranean Sea to the Persian Gulf." Why are people so naive?

[Lasher]

Here's how it works:

(1) Israel has land.
(2) Arabs want Israel's land.
(3) Arabs attack Israel for said land.
(4) Israel defeats invading Arabs.
(5) In the process of war, Israel takes a more land.
(6) Arabs jump and scream about Israel taking more land.
(7) HERE'S THE CONCESSION: Israel says it will give land back if Arabs promise not to attack any more.
(8) Arabs say they won't attack any more.
(9) Roughly three years later, Arbas invade Israel again.

Repeat for 59 years and you have the essence of the Israeli-Arab conflict.



I don't understand how this is relevant.

You don't??

[USMC the Almighty]

You don't??

Nope, care to use your superior intellect to explain it to me.

[Bunz]

The present Foreign Minister of Israel, Tzipi Livni, whose father was a Zionist terrorist who was a leader in the Irgun Gang and took part in the bombing of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem in 1946, had a map of "Greater Israel" carved on her father's gravestone that looks exactly like the one shown in this thread "from the Mediterranean Sea to the Persian Gulf." Why are people so naive?
People are not naive, they generally see through your arguments. You failed to adress the steps that USMC provided which I find his list quite accurate. What happens is that Israel's neighbors cant seem not to attack her.

As for things engraved on a head stone or anywhere, we need not pay it to much heed. Keep in mind what the Statue of Liberty says and how our current policies reflect that.

[numinus]

To the poster making misrepresentations of history - this may help to dissolve the invincible ignorance in that sorry excuse you call your brain. It is from the 1948 declaration of the establishment of the state of israel.

"...

THE STATE OF ISRAEL is prepared to cooperate with the agencies and representatives of the United Nations in implementing the resolution of the General Assembly of the 29th November, 1947, and will take steps to bring about the economic union of the whole of Eretz-Israel.

WE APPEAL to the United Nations to assist the Jewish people in the building-up of its State and to receive the State of Israel into the comity of nations.

WE APPEAL - in the very midst of the onslaught launched against us now for months - to the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to preserve peace and participate in the upbuilding of the State on the BASIS OF FULL AND EQUAL CITIZENSHIP AND DUE REPRESENTATION IN ALL ITS PROVISIONAL AND PERMANENT INSTITUTIONS.

WE EXTEND our hand to all neighbouring states and their peoples in an offer of peace and good neighbourliness, and appeal to them to establish bonds of cooperation and mutual help with the sovereign Jewish people settled in its own land. The State of Israel is prepared to do its share in a common effort for the advancement of the entire Middle East.

etc. etc."


(my caps and underscore)

[Lasher]

Zionists stole someone else's land.

[Bunz]

Zionists stole someone else's land.

This is laughable, but Ill play along once again. Stole who's land?
Who stole the land from the Zionists?
Throughout history stealing land has been crafted into an art that just about every civilization and geographic location has seen. Lets not focus on the bad deeds of one country when all the rest of them do the same thing.

People in glass houses.....

[numinus]

Zionists stole someone else's land.

Correction - the zionists BOUGHT the land that became the proto-typical kibbutz. The absentee palestinian landlords (most of them residing luxuriously in damascus), were MORE THAN WILLING TO DIVEST THEMSELVES OF OWNERSHIP of a tired and unproductive land.

And when the combined armies of the arab league were threatening a blood bath (1948 arab-israeli war) in the palestinian mandate, the land that the palestinians left (at the insistence of their arab brethren) became the line of defense for these sporadic settlements.

So, how can anyone pretend theft in this instance, when the land was PAID for, first, by HARD CURRENCY, and subsequently, by BLOOD, eh?

And if you are even aware of the torrens system of title, then the standards of ABSOLUTE OWNERSHIP are FULLFILLED in this particular case.

As I said, kindly reserve your rhetoric for the moron's who do not know any better - the same morons populating the ranks of hamas and hezbollah.

[Lasher]

Nope, care to use your superior intellect to explain it to me.

Nope.

[Lasher]

People are not naive, they generally see through your arguments. You failed to adress the steps that USMC provided which I find his list quite accurate. What happens is that Israel's neighbors cant seem not to attack her.

As for things engraved on a head stone or anywhere, we need not pay it to much heed. Keep in mind what the Statue of Liberty says and how our current policies reflect that.

Wow, what a bed-wetting, bleeding-heart liberal!!

[Lasher]

This is laughable, but Ill play along once again. Stole who's land?
Who stole the land from the Zionists?
Throughout history stealing land has been crafted into an art that just about every civilization and geographic location has seen. Lets not focus on the bad deeds of one country when all the rest of them do the same thing.

People in glass houses.....

The Zionist Jews stole the land of the Palestinians, Chucklehead.

Israel and the Zionists are the ones in the news today, so let's focus on them.

People in grass houses shouldn't stow thrones.

[Lasher]

Correction - the zionists BOUGHT the land that became the proto-typical kibbutz. The absentee palestinian landlords (most of them residing luxuriously in damascus), were MORE THAN WILLING TO DIVEST THEMSELVES OF OWNERSHIP of a tired and unproductive land.

And when the combined armies of the arab league were threatening a blood bath (1948 arab-israeli war) in the palestinian mandate, the land that the palestinians left (at the insistence of their arab brethren) became the line of defense for these sporadic settlements.

So, how can anyone pretend theft in this instance, when the land was PAID for, first, by HARD CURRENCY, and subsequently, by BLOOD, eh?

And if you are even aware of the torrens system of title, then the standards of ABSOLUTE OWNERSHIP are FULLFILLED in this particular case.

As I said, kindly reserve your rhetoric for the moron's who do not know any better - the same morons populating the ranks of hamas and hezbollah.

Zionists might have begun the conquest by purchasing a few Palestinian properties at reduced prices, but it was a microscopic, minuscule part of what they ended up with. Stop making excuses for terrorist murderers.

The Palestiniand didn't leave their property to the Zionist Jews, they simply left for safety's sake until the warring was over. Why would that make Zionist Jews think the land was abandoned?

Quite a few of those morons are in here apologizing for the sins of the Zionist Jews.

[numinus]

Zionists might have begun the conquest by purchasing a few Palestinian properties at reduced prices, but it was a microscopic, minuscule part of what they ended up with. Stop making excuses for terrorist murderers.

As I said, THE JEWS' ABSOLUTE CLAIMS OVER THEIR TERRITORY IS VALID - BY ANY AND ALL LEGAL STANDARDS OF OWNERSHIP. There simply is no jurisprudence in existence today that would fail to validate this claim of ownership.

The Palestiniand didn't leave their property to the Zionist Jews, they simply left for safety's sake until the warring was over. Why would that make Zionist Jews think the land was abandoned?

The palestinian arabs left their land and the jews DIDN'T - in a conflict meant to KILL THE JEWS, NOT THE PALESTINIAN ARABS.

I wonder, in what logical calculation can one pretend the claims of ownership by the palestinians to defeat the claims of ownership by the jews???? It is an absurdity of epic proportions no reasonable individual would even deign to contemplate!

And your assertion becomes more absurd from the fact that the war of aggression and extermination of the jews was conducted upon the instigation and cooperation of these same palestinian arabs and their leadership.

Quite a few of those morons are in here apologizing for the sins of the Zionist Jews.

No apology is required for an act of SELF-PRESERVATION, in a conflict NOT of their own making.

No apology is required for the inalienable right of a people to DECLARE NATIONHOOD.

No apology is required to undertake ANY AND ALL MEANS to ensure the integrity and continued existence of the jewish nation.

The only apology in this forum comes from your continued justification of the use of force towards the megalomaniac end of exterminating the jews. Not only are the arabs completely incompetent of achieving such a task, they have the temerity to enlist the aid of the international community in their petty adventurism.

[bewitched]

in the theology of dar ul Islam it does not allow the possession of land by anyone other than muslims. Israel pays a jizya for it's land, which is a tax for living there. they are considered "visitors" by the Arabs, not permanent residents. thus, the borders and possession is illegal in the eyes of dar ul Islam.

since Israel has settled and the world recognizes them the Arabs now consider Israel part of dar ul Harb, land of war. in this place anything goes to make this land back to be part of dar ul Islam. which means that it can be taken by force.

Islam and the 57 OIC countries do not recognize international law or borders therefore Israel needs to cease to exist in their minds. and legally so.
and the rest of the world disagrees.

understand?

[Bunz]

Wow, what a bed-wetting, bleeding-heart liberal!!
Congrats on being the first to ever call me that, also the first to be totally incorrect on your assumption.

The Zionist Jews stole the land of the Palestinians, Chucklehead.
Id have a close read-over of the posts by Numinus. I think he lays it out pretty well who stole what.
Israel and the Zionists are the ones in the news today, so let's focus on them.
One cannot in general talk about the Zionists the way you do without mentioning the Palestinians. Seems only fair to discuss both sides of an issue.

[numinus]

in the theology of dar ul Islam it does not allow the possession of land by anyone other than muslims. Israel pays a jizya for it's land, which is a tax for living there. they are considered "visitors" by the Arabs, not permanent residents. thus, the borders and possession is illegal in the eyes of dar ul Islam.

since Israel has settled and the world recognizes them the Arabs now consider Israel part of dar ul Harb, land of war. in this place anything goes to make this land back to be part of dar ul Islam. which means that it can be taken by force.

Islam and the 57 OIC countries do not recognize international law or borders therefore Israel needs to cease to exist in their minds. and legally so.
and the rest of the world disagrees.

understand?

I said in ANY JURISPRUDENCE.

Tell me, does that nonsense you are posting anywhere near what any reasonable contemplation of jurisprudence is???

And if, for argument's sake, that the rights of an individual and a people embodied in the udhr contradicts islamic law, then WHY IN HEAVEN'S NAME DOES THE MUSLIM WORLD SEEK REDRESS FROM THE UN, eh???

Your post is indicative of the absurd double-speak being employed by these people to get what they cannot achieve with their own force or will.

[9sublime]

Lasher, I am not going to give an infraction to numinus for that report post that was a so called personal attack. Calling someone ignorant with a sorry excuse for a brain... I don't plan to get pathetic and politically correct for you. Stop being so wet.

[bewitched]

I said in ANY JURISPRUDENCE.

Tell me, does that nonsense you are posting anywhere near what any reasonable contemplation of jurisprudence is???

And if, for argument's sake, that the rights of an individual and a people embodied in the udhr contradicts islamic law, then WHY IN HEAVEN'S NAME DOES THE MUSLIM WORLD SEEK REDRESS FROM THE UN, eh???

Your post is indicative of the absurd double-speak being employed by these people to get what they cannot achieve with their own force or will.

jurisprudence is a Western concept.

[numinus]

jurisprudence is a Western concept.

And this is relevant because.....?

Or are you in the habit of judging 'concepts' on their origins, and not on their intellectual merits, hmmm?

[bewitched]

And this is relevant because.....?

Or are you in the habit of judging 'concepts' on their origins, and not on their intellectual merits, hmmm?

in understanding the mindset of the enemy it's relevant to know that they don't think like us or have rules of war based on Roman ethics.
if we look at the situation in Western terms we don't see the whole picture.

[numinus]

in understanding the mindset of the enemy it's relevant to know that they don't think like us or have rules of war based on Roman ethics.
if we look at the situation in Western terms we don't see the whole picture.

Does that include submitting to the whims of your enemy?

And do you propose to bring about peace at the expense of the existence of AN ENTIRE PEOPLE? The peace of a grave yard is made in such ways.

[bewitched]

Does that include submitting to the whims of your enemy?

And do you propose to bring about peace at the expense of the existence of AN ENTIRE PEOPLE? The peace of a grave yard is made in such ways.

wow. that's really black and white, eh?
all or nothing. ignore them or kill them all?
an entire people? that's a show of lack of understanding the mindset.

who said to submit to the whims of the ememy? understanding mindset is one of the foremost plans in battle. we can't fight what we don't understand. so before you jump to conclusions it would probably benefit everyone if we (the American public) learned a little more about Islam and their intent.

[numinus]

wow. that's really black and white, eh?
all or nothing. ignore them or kill them all?
an entire people? that's a show of lack of understanding the mindset.

who said to submit to the whims of the ememy? understanding mindset is one of the foremost plans in battle. we can't fight what we don't understand. so before you jump to conclusions it would probably benefit everyone if we (the American public) learned a little more about Islam and their intent.

NONSENSE.

There is NOTHING in the palestinian's identity, nor ANYONE else's identity for that matter, that would justify its continued existence at the expense of another.

Consequently, any plan for the establishment of a palestinian nation would be realized ONLY WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF CO-EXISTENCE. In short, no more death-to-the-jews nonsense.

You are correct that an understanding of a particular mindset is in order. That burden rests on the palestinians themselves, and the mindset in dire need of re-evaluation is their own.

[bewitched]

NONSENSE.

There is NOTHING in the palestinian's identity, nor ANYONE else's identity for that matter, that would justify its continued existence at the expense of another.

Consequently, any plan for the establishment of a palestinian nation would be realized ONLY WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF CO-EXISTENCE. In short, no more death-to-the-jews nonsense.

You are correct that an understanding of a particular mindset is in order. That burden rests on the palestinians themselves, and the mindset in dire need of re-evaluation is their own.

that bold underline thing is really interesting.

http://mapsofwar.com/images/Religion.swf
that little spec of pink is the scab.

[numinus]

that bold underline thing is really interesting.

http://mapsofwar.com/images/Religion.swf
that little spec of pink is the scab.

Interesting - but ultimately irrelevant to the discussion.

[bewitched]

Interesting - but ultimately irrelevant to the discussion.

no. this is the whole point.
if you want to deny it and paint it in your black and white then you miss the entire point.

[Coyote]

The palestinian arabs left their land and the jews DIDN'T - in a conflict meant to KILL THE JEWS, NOT THE PALESTINIAN ARABS.


I wonder, in what logical calculation can one pretend the claims of ownership by the palestinians to defeat the claims of ownership by the jews???? It is an absurdity of epic proportions no reasonable individual would even deign to contemplate!

And your assertion becomes more absurd from the fact that the war of aggression and extermination of the jews was conducted upon the instigation and cooperation of these same palestinian arabs and their leadership.


No apology is required for an act of SELF-PRESERVATION, in a conflict NOT of their own making.

No apology is required for the inalienable right of a people to DECLARE NATIONHOOD.

No apology is required to undertake ANY AND ALL MEANS to ensure the integrity and continued existence of the jewish nation.

The only apology in this forum comes from your continued justification of the use of force towards the megalomaniac end of exterminating the jews. Not only are the arabs completely incompetent of achieving such a task, they have the temerity to enlist the aid of the international community in their petty adventurism.

The Palestinians fled out of fear of being killed. They were refugees. Usually refugees are allowed back. Israel did not allow them back once the war was over. They took their houses and give them to Jewish citizens. Finally, under international pressure they relented and let a few - a very few back in.

No, it isn't absurb in the occupied territories. Their cause is just as righteous as that of the Israeli's and their plight just as unjust. That's the problem.

It's also important to remember that the Israeli's had a part in instigating hostilities in order to gain territory - this has been openly admitted by a number of high level Israeli military and political figurres.

It's time to put the lie of poor little Israel vs. big bad arabs to rest. There was plenty of wrong doing done by both sides.

[bewitched]

The Palestinians fled out of fear of being killed. They were refugees. Usually refugees are allowed back. Israel did not allow them back once the war was over. They took their houses and give them to Jewish citizens. Finally, under international pressure they relented and let a few - a very few back in.

No, it isn't absurb in the occupied territories. Their cause is just as righteous as that of the Israeli's and their plight just as unjust. That's the problem.

It's also important to remember that the Israeli's had a part in instigating hostilities in order to gain territory - this has been openly admitted by a number of high level Israeli military and political figurres.

It's time to put the lie of poor little Israel vs. big bad arabs to rest. There was plenty of wrong doing done by both sides.
all Jordan has to do is enact the Right of Return and give Palestine some territory and it's over. but nooooooo. that's not gonna happen because the real motivation (which the West doesn't see) is getting rid of the jews. (non-muslims)

[Coyote]

all Jordan has to do is enact the Right of Return and give Palestine some territory and it's over. but nooooooo. that's not gonna happen because the real motivation (which the West doesn't see) is getting rid of the jews. (non-muslims)

You're not understanding what I said...or maybe you don't know the history?

How can you have a "right of return" that would "return" the Palestinians to a place they'd never been to begin with?

In addition, Israel currently holds much land that was to have been part of Jordan.

Maybe they should return it.

[bewitched]

You're not understanding what I said...or maybe you don't know the history?

How can you have a "right of return" that would "return" the Palestinians to a place they'd never been to begin with?

In addition, Israel currently holds much land that was to have been part of Jordan.

Maybe they should return it.

no there was an agreement in Oslo that changed the borders. what is not accepted is the religion, not the borders. convert all the jews to muslims and there probably wouldn't be a problem.

yes, there were colonies of Palestinians in Jordan. and there are easier solutions but it's that non-pluralism in Islam, there isn't even an Arabic word for religious pluralism, that is the problem.

but again, from western eyes and our love of history and fairness...

[Coyote]

no there was an agreement in Oslo that changed the borders. what is not accepted is the religion, not the borders. convert all the jews to muslims and there probably wouldn't be a problem.

yes, there were colonies of Palestinians in Jordan. and there are easier solutions but it's that non-pluralism in Islam, there isn't even an Arabic word for religious pluralism, that is the problem.

but again, from western eyes and our love of history and fairness...

No, it's not the religion - it's about borders and land and fairness. Jews have lived within the area for a very long time without problem.

There's an easy solution. Go back to the agreed upon borders that defined the creation of Israel, announced in the Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel as read by David Ben Gurion in Tel Aviv on May 14, 1948 or the borders agreed upon at the 1949 Armistice.

http://houseofpolitics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2002&page=5

[bewitched]

No, it's not the religion - it's about borders and land and fairness. Jews have lived within the area for a very long time without problem.

There's an easy solution. Go back to the agreed upon borders that defined the creation of Israel, announced in the Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel as read by David Ben Gurion in Tel Aviv on May 14, 1948 or the borders agreed upon at the 1949 Armistice.

http://houseofpolitics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2002&page=5

jews pay 80 million dollars in jizya to live there. they are renters. who haven't been problemless because they get missiles shot into their neighborhoods and pregnant women strap on bombs and go to their markets...
there won't be peace even if 1948 is recreated. I promise.

[Lasher]

The Palestinians fled out of fear of being killed. They were refugees. Usually refugees are allowed back. Israel did not allow them back once the war was over. They took their houses and give them to Jewish citizens. Finally, under international pressure they relented and let a few - a very few back in.

No, it isn't absurb in the occupied territories. Their cause is just as righteous as that of the Israeli's and their plight just as unjust. That's the problem.

It's also important to remember that the Israeli's had a part in instigating hostilities in order to gain territory - this has been openly admitted by a number of high level Israeli military and political figurres.

It's time to put the lie of poor little Israel vs. big bad arabs to rest. There was plenty of wrong doing done by both sides.

It is my fervent hope that Iran obtains nuclear weapons from Russia and uses them to make crispy-critters out of every Zionist Jew on Palestinian land, and that includes all of what those Zionist dogs claim to be Israel. I would literally dance in the streets and laugh and sing if that wonderful occurence should somehow happen. Jews are the bane of the human race and should all be eradicated to insure the future moral health of the world.

[Segep]

OK, if I was a mod right now you'd be banned for incitement to violence and hate speech

Crawl back under your rock Lasher.

[Lasher]

Hey, Israel was perfectly fine with their borders until 6 Arab countries decided to attack the day after Israel was founded. They lost and Israel took some of their land. That's how war works.

Then they cry and beg to get their land back, Israel gives it to them and they go and attack again. 100% of the blame for Israel's land grabs deserves to be placed on the shoulders of Lebanon, Jordan, Syria, Egypt, Iran, and Saudi Arabia.

Mazel tov, old sport. Have a great Rosh Hashannah, Passover, Yom Kippur, Hannukah and all those other tonsil-twisting celebrations you jews like to shove into the faces of the Christians of this country, you 2% minority fakers.

There are probably more Arabs in America than you lice, yet you force your religious crap down the throats of everyone and the Arabs do not. It's okay to put a menorah on a public square, but a crucifix, no way!! God, I detest you vermin!!!

[Lasher]

OK, if I was a mod right now you'd be banned for incitement to violence and hate speech

Crawl back under your rock Lasher.

If a frog had wings, it wouldn't bump its ass when it jumps, you stupid moron. You kikes are always using the authority to do your dirty work, aren't you? You have set up brigades of slimy Zionist punks to tell the law that you need protection and then get people who exercise their free speech rights thrown into the slammer. You cowardly dogs!! I hope every Jew dies an agonizing death in hell.

[Segep]

LMAO

classy

[Lasher]

I thought so, Jewboy.

[Lasher]

OK, if I was a mod right now you'd be banned for incitement to violence and hate speech

Crawl back under your rock Lasher.

Any speech about a dirty kike is usually hate-speech, old sport, so what?

[Segep]

I thought so, Jewboy.

Firstly, that's not an insult--no matter what your twisted values tell you. Secondly, I'm not Jewish.

[Segep]

Aww Lasher, where is the love? Cheer up. Maybe someday you'll get a visit from http://www.americanpoliticsforum.com/images/segepfairy.jpg and he'll give you your self esteem back. ;)

[USMC the Almighty]

Mazel tov, old sport. Have a great Rosh Hashannah, Passover, Yom Kippur, Hannukah and all those other tonsil-twisting celebrations you jews like to shove into the faces of the Christians of this country, you 2% minority fakers.

There are probably more Arabs in America than you lice, yet you force your religious crap down the throats of everyone and the Arabs do not. It's okay to put a menorah on a public square, but a crucifix, no way!! God, I detest you vermin!!!

Lasher, a few things:

- you need to tone it down now before you force the mods to tone it down for you.
- I am NOT Jewish, I do not celebrate Passover or Yom Kippur or any other Jewish holiday
- I am glad you've stopped pretending that it's only the "Zionists" you hate; you're finally showing that you are just a flat out anti-semite
- Muslims are the ones whose stated goal is to install Sharia law, convert everyone to Islam, and kills those who refuse. All the Jews want is for no one to bother them on their tiny strip of land:

http://www.targetofopportunity.com/jewish_occupation.gif

[Coyote]

Lasher, a few things:

- you need to tone it down now before you force the mods to tone it down for you.
- I am now Jewish, I do not celebrate Passover or Yom Kippur or any other Jewish holiday
- I am glad you've stopped pretending that it's only the "Zionists" you hate; you're finally showing that you are just a flat out anti-semite
- Muslims are the ones whose stated goal is to install Sharia law, convert everyone to Islam, and kills those who refuse. All the Jews want is for no one to bother them on their tiny strip of land:




While I agree with your sentiment, be fair.

Muslim extremists want to convert everyone, install Sharia and kill those who refuse.

Christian extremists want to convert everyone, install Biblical Law (with stonings and the whole 9 yards) and proclaim a kingdom under Christ.

Zionist extremists want to increase Israel to Biblical proportions (and to hell with whomever lives there) and irradicate the Palestinians. No conversions on the horizon however.

Extremists - of any flavor - have more in common with each other then they do with the moderates of their own sides.

[Coyote]

Aww Lasher, where is the love? Cheer up. Maybe someday you'll get a visit from http://www.americanpoliticsforum.com/images/segepfairy.jpg and he'll give you your self esteem back. ;)

:D :D

Methinks Lasher is your garden variety troll....17, spotty, bad breath, no dates.

[vyo476]

Lasher, a few things:

- you need to tone it down now before you force the mods to tone it down for you.

You beat me to it.

Anyway, Lasher, we've got our collective eye on you. Recheck the forum rules and you'll see that debating in a "civilized manner" is on there. Hate speech is not civilized.

- I am now Jewish, I do not celebrate Passover or Yom Kippur or any other Jewish holiday

I'm guessing that was a typo.

[Lasher]

Lasher, a few things:

- you need to tone it down now before you force the mods to tone it down for you.
- I am now Jewish, I do not celebrate Passover or Yom Kippur or any other Jewish holiday
- I am glad you've stopped pretending that it's only the "Zionists" you hate; you're finally showing that you are just a flat out anti-semite
- Muslims are the ones whose stated goal is to install Sharia law, convert everyone to Islam, and kills those who refuse. All the Jews want is for no one to bother them on their tiny strip of land:

http://www.targetofopportunity.com/jewish_occupation.gif

Man, you are either brain-washed or very naive. It isn't their tiny strip of land.

[Lasher]

:D :D

Methinks Lasher is your garden variety troll....17, spotty, bad breath, no dates.

Probably an accurate self-description.

[Lasher]

You beat me to it.

Anyway, Lasher, we've got our collective eye on you. Recheck the forum rules and you'll see that debating in a "civilized manner" is on there. Hate speech is not civilized.



I'm guessing that was a typo.

Lasher guesses he's a recent convert to the satanic Jewish religion.

[USMC the Almighty]

Lasher guesses he's a recent convert to the satanic Jewish religion.

Hahaha, oh my. With the path you're on, vyo's looking to be losing his banning virginity quite soon.

[Lasher]

Hahaha, oh my. With the path you're on, vyo's looking to be losing his banning virginity quite soon.

Ask me if I give a big rat's ass, Izzy.

[Coyote]

Probably an accurate self-description.

Uh oh....girl friend dumped you for the fry cook at Little Sandy's again?:(

[numinus]

The Palestinians fled out of fear of being killed. They were refugees. Usually refugees are allowed back. Israel did not allow them back once the war was over. They took their houses and give them to Jewish citizens. Finally, under international pressure they relented and let a few - a very few back in.

No, it isn't absurb in the occupied territories. Their cause is just as righteous as that of the Israeli's and their plight just as unjust. That's the problem.

It's also important to remember that the Israeli's had a part in instigating hostilities in order to gain territory - this has been openly admitted by a number of high level Israeli military and political figurres.

It's time to put the lie of poor little Israel vs. big bad arabs to rest. There was plenty of wrong doing done by both sides.

From wiki:

According to the 1951 United Nations Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees, a refugee is a person who,

owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group, or political opinion, is outside the country of their nationality, and is unable to or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail him/herself of the protection of that country.

In light of the pleadings of the jews in their declaration of state, and the events prior to and during the arab-israeli war of 1948, would you mind telling me just how the palestinians are refugees?

[numinus]

You're not understanding what I said...or maybe you don't know the history?

How can you have a "right of return" that would "return" the Palestinians to a place they'd never been to begin with?

The right of return you are talking about is stated in article 11 of the united nations general assembly resolution 194:

"11. Resolves that the refugees wishing to return to their homes and LIVE AT PEACE WITH THEIR NEIGHBORS should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date, and that compensation should be paid for the property of those choosing not to return and for loss of or damage to property which, under principles of international law or in equity, should be made good by the Governments or authorities responsible;"

How can one even concieve of allowing repatriation to israel when there is NO INDICATIONS OF PEACE?

As for payment for the loss and damage of property, who do you suppose should foot the bill for the 1948 arab-israeli conflict, hmmm?

In addition, Israel currently holds much land that was to have been part of Jordan.

Maybe they should return it.

Why should they?

The west bank was captured and annexed to the hashemite kingdom of transjordan during the 1948 arab-israeli war - which was then captured by israel in the six-day war.

Or maybe, jordan and israel should return the land to either the british or the legal successors of the ottoman empire, depending on how far back in history one wants to consider?

[bewitched]

While I agree with your sentiment, be fair.

Muslim extremists want to convert everyone, install Sharia and kill those who refuse.

Christian extremists want to convert everyone, install Biblical Law (with stonings and the whole 9 yards) and proclaim a kingdom under Christ.

Zionist extremists want to increase Israel to Biblical proportions (and to hell with whomever lives there) and irradicate the Palestinians. No conversions on the horizon however.

Extremists - of any flavor - have more in common with each other then they do with the moderates of their own sides.

you keep repeating yourself but in 2007 it's only the muslims who are the aggressors. old biblical history is.... history. the reformation of the Caliphate is happening now.

there are a few of us who are warning some of you about this and there is a great deal of denial and apology. if America isn't ready for the increase of aggression estimated for 2010 then we are fu*ked.

[Coyote]

you keep repeating yourself but in 2007 it's only the muslims who are the aggressors. old biblical history is.... history. the reformation of the Caliphate is happening now.

there are a few of us who are warning some of you about this and there is a great deal of denial and apology. if America isn't ready for the increase of aggression estimated for 2010 then we are fu*ked.

Who exactly are "us"? Steve Ox?


Just to give a little more perspective...here's a partial list of active designated terrorist organizations officially listed as such who engage in violence.

Religious Terrorist Organizations

Christian

* Army of God - An American anti-abortion terrorist group.
* God's Army - A terrorist group in Myanmar.
* Lord's Resistance Army - Christian/Pagan/Muslim terrorist group that operates in northern Uganda, it seeks to overthrow the Ugandan government and create a country based on the ten commandments.
* Nagaland Rebels (1947-present) Active in predominantly Christian state in Hindu majority India. Involved in several bombings in 2004. Goal: Independence from India after annexing parts of neighboring Indian states and Burma if it has Christian majority.
* National Liberation Front of Tripura (1989-present) A group that seeks the independence of Tripura from India to create a Christian Tripura.
* Phineas Priesthood An American based Christian Identity movement.
* National Democratic Front of Bodoland, active terrorist in the Indian state of Assam, involved in the murder of Bineshwar Brahma, prominent Hindu Bodo activist.

Islamist

* Abu Sayyaf (1991-present; Islamist separatists; the Philippines)
* Aden-Abyan Islamic Army (Yemen)
* Al-Gama'a al-Islamiyya (Late 1970s-present; Islamists; Egypt)
* Armed Islamic Group (1992-present; Islamists; Algeria)
* Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades
* Ansar al-Islam (December 2001-present; Islamists; Iraq)
* Al-Qaeda (1988-present; Islamists; Afghanistan, Pakistan, and worldwide)
* Asbat al-Ansar (early 1990s-present; Lebanese Sunni Islamists; southern Lebanon)
* Jama'at al-Tawhid wa'al-Jihad/Al-Qaeda in Iraq - Abu Musab al-Zarqawi's Sunni network, operating in Iraq
* Eastern Turkestan Islamic Movement - al-Qaeda linked separatist group in China's Xinjiang Autonomous Region aiming to establish an Islamic state. Banned by China, along with related groups East Turkestan Liberation Organization, World Uighur Youth Congress and East Turkistan Information Center
* Egyptian Islamic Jihad - Egypt (active since the late 1970s)
* Hamas - West Bank, Gaza Strip. Listed as a terrorist organization by Australia, Canada, the European Union, Israel, and the United States
* Harakat ul-Mujahidin (HUM) - Pakistan and Kashmir
* Hezbollah - Lebanon; Listed as a terrorist organization by Australia, Canada, the Netherlands, Israel, and the United States
* Hizbul Mujahideen - Pakistan and Kashmir
*Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan - Uzbekistan
* Jaish-e-Mohammed - Pakistan
* Jaish Ansar al-Sunna - Iraq
* Jemaah Islamiyah - Southeast Asia
* Jundallah - Iran and Pakistan (affiliated with the USA and Al-Qaeda)
* Lashkar-e-Jhangvi - Pakistan
* Lashkar-e-Toiba - Pakistan
* Moroccan Islamic Combatant Group - Morocco and Spain
* Moro Islamic Liberation Front - (Islamic separatists; the Philippines)
* Palestinian Islamic Jihad - Israel, West Bank, Gaza Strip
* People Against Gangsterism and Drugs - South Africa
* RSM or Rajah Solaiman Movement - Philippines
* Salafist Group for Preaching and Combat - Algeria
* Sipah-e-Sahaba Pakistan - Pakistan
* Students Islamic Movement of India - India
* Takfir wal-Hijra - Egypt/Sudan/Algeria
* Turkish Hezbollah - Kurdish organization operating in Turkey
* Turkish Islamic Jihad - Turkey

Jewish
* Jewish Defense League
* Kach
* Kahane Chai (designated as terrorist by Israel, the EU, and USA)
* Irgun

Sikh

* Babbar Khalsa
* International Sikh Youth Federation
* Khalistan Zindabad Force [3]

Other

*Aum Supreme Truth (Aum Shinrikyo) - Japan (homicidal religious cult)

Those are just the religious terrorist groups - then you have the others which I won't list individually but:

Nationalistic terrorist organizations -- which number around 40 and while they may contain certain religious groups (for example for some of the Irish groups you have Protestants and Catholics and for some of the Arab groups you have Muslims but they are defined by their primary aims which are nationalistic not religious)

Anarchist terrorist organizations -- 5 are listed (they've got some great names like The Angry Brigade and the Conscientious Arsonists)

Then there are a sundry other political, ethnic and issue specific groups plus you have groups that fall into more then one category.

[bewitched]

Who exactly are "us"? Steve Ox?


Just to give a little more perspective...here's a partial list of active designated terrorist organizations officially listed as such who engage in violence.

Religious Terrorist Organizations

Christian

* Army of God - An American anti-abortion terrorist group.
* God's Army - A terrorist group in Myanmar.
* Lord's Resistance Army - Christian/Pagan/Muslim terrorist group that operates in northern Uganda, it seeks to overthrow the Ugandan government and create a country based on the ten commandments.
* Nagaland Rebels (1947-present) Active in predominantly Christian state in Hindu majority India. Involved in several bombings in 2004. Goal: Independence from India after annexing parts of neighboring Indian states and Burma if it has Christian majority.
* National Liberation Front of Tripura (1989-present) A group that seeks the independence of Tripura from India to create a Christian Tripura.
* Phineas Priesthood An American based Christian Identity movement.
* National Democratic Front of Bodoland, active terrorist in the Indian state of Assam, involved in the murder of Bineshwar Brahma, prominent Hindu Bodo activist.

Islamist

* Abu Sayyaf (1991-present; Islamist separatists; the Philippines)
* Aden-Abyan Islamic Army (Yemen)
* Al-Gama'a al-Islamiyya (Late 1970s-present; Islamists; Egypt)
* Armed Islamic Group (1992-present; Islamists; Algeria)
* Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades
* Ansar al-Islam (December 2001-present; Islamists; Iraq)
* Al-Qaeda (1988-present; Islamists; Afghanistan, Pakistan, and worldwide)
* Asbat al-Ansar (early 1990s-present; Lebanese Sunni Islamists; southern Lebanon)
* Jama'at al-Tawhid wa'al-Jihad/Al-Qaeda in Iraq - Abu Musab al-Zarqawi's Sunni network, operating in Iraq
* Eastern Turkestan Islamic Movement - al-Qaeda linked separatist group in China's Xinjiang Autonomous Region aiming to establish an Islamic state. Banned by China, along with related groups East Turkestan Liberation Organization, World Uighur Youth Congress and East Turkistan Information Center
* Egyptian Islamic Jihad - Egypt (active since the late 1970s)
* Hamas - West Bank, Gaza Strip. Listed as a terrorist organization by Australia, Canada, the European Union, Israel, and the United States
* Harakat ul-Mujahidin (HUM) - Pakistan and Kashmir
* Hezbollah - Lebanon; Listed as a terrorist organization by Australia, Canada, the Netherlands, Israel, and the United States
* Hizbul Mujahideen - Pakistan and Kashmir
*Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan - Uzbekistan
* Jaish-e-Mohammed - Pakistan
* Jaish Ansar al-Sunna - Iraq
* Jemaah Islamiyah - Southeast Asia
* Jundallah - Iran and Pakistan (affiliated with the USA and Al-Qaeda)
* Lashkar-e-Jhangvi - Pakistan
* Lashkar-e-Toiba - Pakistan
* Moroccan Islamic Combatant Group - Morocco and Spain
* Moro Islamic Liberation Front - (Islamic separatists; the Philippines)
* Palestinian Islamic Jihad - Israel, West Bank, Gaza Strip
* People Against Gangsterism and Drugs - South Africa
* RSM or Rajah Solaiman Movement - Philippines
* Salafist Group for Preaching and Combat - Algeria
* Sipah-e-Sahaba Pakistan - Pakistan
* Students Islamic Movement of India - India
* Takfir wal-Hijra - Egypt/Sudan/Algeria
* Turkish Hezbollah - Kurdish organization operating in Turkey
* Turkish Islamic Jihad - Turkey

Jewish
* Jewish Defense League
* Kach
* Kahane Chai (designated as terrorist by Israel, the EU, and USA)
* Irgun

Sikh

* Babbar Khalsa
* International Sikh Youth Federation
* Khalistan Zindabad Force [3]

Other

*Aum Supreme Truth (Aum Shinrikyo) - Japan (homicidal religious cult)

Those are just the religious terrorist groups - then you have the others which I won't list individually but:

Nationalistic terrorist organizations -- which number around 40 and while they may contain certain religious groups (for example for some of the Irish groups you have Protestants and Catholics and for some of the Arab groups you have Muslims but they are defined by their primary aims which are nationalistic not religious)

Anarchist terrorist organizations -- 5 are listed (they've got some great names like The Angry Brigade and the Conscientious Arsonists)

Then there are a sundry other political, ethnic and issue specific groups plus you have groups that fall into more then one category.

hah. good for you, you can make a list.
but have you lived among them?
work against them?
takes a little more than a list to do that.

[bewitched]

Who exactly are "us"? Steve Ox?
.
I'm not quite sure what the referral to Steve Ox is.
maybe you think I am he?
I am not.
but sometimes there are people who think alike in the world.

[Coyote]

hah. good for you, you can make a list.
but have you lived among them?
work against them?
takes a little more than a list to do that.

Indeed it does, but...I doubt you know much about that:D

[bewitched]

Indeed it does, but...I doubt you know much about that:D

you just keep doubting. that'll getcha places.

[Coyote]

you just keep doubting. that'll getcha places.

Of course it will:D

[abu-afak]

Ah Yes. "Greater Israel".

The Idiot's Plot where 5 million Jews rule 300,000,000 Arabs on 500 times the Land Mass.

That should be funny - Israel couldn't even Occupy/Gave back tiny Gaza.

[Bunz]

Ah Yes. "Greater Israel".

The Idiot's Plot where 5 million Jews rule 300,000,000 Arabs on 500 times the Land Mass.

That should be funny - Israel couldn't even Occupy/Gave back tiny Gaza.
Oh so now the Israeli's actually gave back Gaza, that is an interesting way to look at it. Though I think it a pity that people of Gaza cant seem to get along and govern themselves.

[pocketfullofshells]

Hey, Israel was perfectly fine with their borders until 6 Arab countries decided to attack the day after Israel was founded. They lost and Israel took some of their land. That's how war works.

Then they cry and beg to get their land back, Israel gives it to them and they go and attack again. 100% of the blame for Israel's land grabs deserves to be placed on the shoulders of Lebanon, Jordan, Syria, Egypt, Iran, and Saudi Arabia.

Unless Iraq attack Kawait then its illegal to hold that land and the UN attacks Iraq to make them leave.....

Amazing though, they plop a fake nation in , and force all those people already there to now live under a Jewish State...and oddly they did not take it well...

UN law states Israel is in Violation....no more no less then Iraq was in Violation in 1991....Lets Invade.

If the UN came in and said Minnesota was now going to be a Jewish State and I had to live under it...I would be out with my guns as well and take out anyone in government who opposed me if I could...

[Bunz]

PFOS, Ill respond to your post. But I will say that I agree with the post from Jarhead that you quoted. Israel expanding thier borders came as a result of aggressive actions on the part of her neighbors.
If the UN came in and said Minnesota was now going to be a Jewish State and I had to live under it...I would be out with my guns as well and take out anyone in government who opposed me if I could...
Did you know that Alaska was mentioned as a potential Jewish homeland in the UN debate before the current Israel was chosen?

The comparison between Israel and Iraq is somewhat vaild but not entirely fair in my book. As I mentioned before Iraq invaded her neighbors aggressively twice. Iran and Kuwait. Now I know the US has its finger prints all over the situation, and will not condone that. Saddam let himself become a pawn in the greater US foreign policy scheme and after starting off strong, eventually ended up dead at the end of a noose.

[numinus]

Unless Iraq attack Kawait then its illegal to hold that land and the UN attacks Iraq to make them leave.....

Amazing though, they plop a fake nation in , and force all those people already there to now live under a Jewish State...and oddly they did not take it well...

UN law states Israel is in Violation....no more no less then Iraq was in Violation in 1991....Lets Invade.

If the UN came in and said Minnesota was now going to be a Jewish State and I had to live under it...I would be out with my guns as well and take out anyone in government who opposed me if I could...

I'm sorry but the occupied territories were gained from the adventurist invasion(s) of the arabs against israel (which they unfortunately, lost) in direct violation of a un ga resolution. These were conflicts NOT of israel's making.

That's adverse possession right there -- valid and legal in the torrens system of title.

[Coyote]

I'm sorry but the occupied territories were gained from the adventurist invasion(s) of the arabs against israel (which they unfortunately, lost) in direct violation of a un ga resolution. These were conflicts NOT of israel's making.

That's adverse possession right there -- valid and legal in the torrens system of title.


Not totally true. There is considerable evidence from the words of former Israeli officials and army who were involved at the time (the 1967 war) that Israel neither believed the Arabs truely wanted war, nor were a real threat and that Israel itself wanted to provoke a war in an effort to gain territory.

[bokile]

http://www.voanews.com/serbian/images/Srbija-Drzavna_zastava_wp_1024.jpg

http://unimaps.com/israel/flag.gif

A Muslim nazis want to destroy us:eek:
Our flags will stand still:cool:

[numinus]

Not totally true. There is considerable evidence from the words of former Israeli officials and army who were involved at the time (the 1967 war) that Israel neither believed the Arabs truely wanted war, nor were a real threat and that Israel itself wanted to provoke a war in an effort to gain territory.

Speculative.

Everyone knows that the occupied territories serve as a buffer for israel's security - same for the uk with northern ireland. That wouldn't even be necessary if not for the arabs hostility towards them.

[Divine Love]

Everyone knows that years ago there was no sign of Israel on the world maps. But the damned ambitious Zionists captured the Arab's lands to commence their dirty dreams of ruling the world.
Occupied lands belong to palestinians. There will be no peace in the world until these racist zionists get their asses out of Palestine and return to where they once lived.

[vyo476]

return to where they once lived.

And where is that, exactly?

[Divine Love]

You know it well. They were scattered all over the world. Mostly in Europe. But after Israel gov. was founed they migrated to Palestine.

[vyo476]

You know it well. They were scattered all over the world. Mostly in Europe. But after Israel gov. was founed they migrated to Palestine.

That is a fallacy. There was a high degree of Jewish immigration to Palestine before the creation of Israel. The Jewish population of Palestine ballooned from 1920 to 1945, increasing by a percentage too ridiculous to even mention.

I don't fully agree with how Israel was created. I do believe that the desire of the Jews to have their homeland was perfectly justified, especially (but not solely) because of what they endured during World War II, I just don't think the thing was dealt with appropriately.

Those problems are academic today. Most of the people who live in Israel today weren't even alive then, and in any case most of the mistakes were made by the UN, not the Israelis themselves. Kicking the Jews out of Israel wouldn't just be unjust, it would create at least as many problems as it would solve. Finding a way to foster peaceful coexistence is the only way to move forward.

[Divine Love]

Taking what you said as granted, why should palestninas pay the price?
Suppos some strangers migrate to US and after a while they claim your land. Then, Would you agree on a funny proposition, "peaceful coexistence"?
Moreover, creating a Zionist state was planned in 1897. It was the first step. The last is ruling the world. Yeah, this fiends won't suffice to Palestine they will claim the world if given the chance.
Have you heared about the book, "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion".
Just google for it and believe in insanity of this race.

[bokile]

Have you heared about the book, "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion".


We all know that these so called Protocols are fake:D

Suppos some strangers migrate to US and after a while they claim your land.

It was always Jewish land, over 3000 years, same as Kosovo is holy Serb land since 8th century;)

http://z.about.com/d/geography/1/7/-/0/1/Serbia.gif

http://www.enchantedlearning.com/asia/israel/flag/Flagbig.GIF

[Divine Love]

[QUOTE=bokile;32499]We all know that these so called Protocols are fake

[QUOTE]

Those protocols can be questioned only by the ignorant.

[QUOTE=bokile;32499]

It was always Jewish land, over 3000 years, same as Kosovo is holy Serb land since 8th century;)

[QUOTE]

Stop talking nonesense! You foul Jew!
your statements are based on your fanatic ideas not facts.

[bokile]

[QUOTE=bokile;32499]We all know that these so called Protocols are fake

[QUOTE]

Those protocols can be questioned only by the ignorant.

[QUOTE=bokile;32499]

It was always Jewish land, over 3000 years, same as Kosovo is holy Serb land since 8th century;)

[QUOTE]

Stop talking nonesense! You foul Jew!
your statements are based on your fanatic ideas not facts.

Long live Israel and Serbia, nazis should die...
this will never happen again:eek:

http://serbiandefenseleague.com/crocamp1.jpg

These boys were saved from Croatian concentration camps where 750,000 Serbian men, women and children perished in a gigantic holocaust.

nazi palestinians participated in holocaust. mass murderers:mad:

[vyo476]

You foul Jew!

Oh look, you're banned.

[numinus]

Taking what you said as granted, why should palestninas pay the price?

The creation of the state of israel came immediately after the dissolution of the palestinian mandate. The state of israel was formed with a clear invitation of CITIZENSHIP AND COOPERATION extended to its palestinian-arab inhabitants.

Suppos some strangers migrate to US and after a while they claim your land. Then, Would you agree on a funny proposition, "peaceful coexistence"?

I'm sorry but the land was sold to the jews and became the prototypical kibbutz -- in most cases, land that was useless to traditional farming.

The palestinian landlords themselves sold the land, which makes everything you are saying moot and academic.

Moreover, creating a Zionist state was planned in 1897. It was the first step. The last is ruling the world. Yeah, this fiends won't suffice to Palestine they will claim the world if given the chance.
Have you heared about the book, "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion".
Just google for it and believe in insanity of this race.

I can't see how a people subjected to centuries of pogrom would aspire for anything less than a home of their own -- especially after the genocide perpetuated upon them by nazi germany.

It is not only their RIGHT but a PRIVELEGE EARNED in a war forced upon them.

[Coyote]

I can't see how a people subjected to centuries of pogrom would aspire for anything less than a home of their own -- especially after the genocide perpetuated upon them by nazi germany.

It is not only their RIGHT but a PRIVELEGE EARNED in a war forced upon them.

At this point, I think the same right and priveledge is owed to the Palestianians.

[numinus]

At this point, I think the same right and priveledge is owed to the Palestianians.

As sure as sunshine and rain.

BUT NOT AT THE EXPENSE OF ANOTHER.

[Coyote]

As sure as sunshine and rain.

BUT NOT AT THE EXPENSE OF ANOTHER.

What is occuring now is that an injustice is being perpetrated in order to fix a prior injustice.

That is no fix.

[bokile]

What is occuring now is that an injustice is being perpetrated in order to fix a prior injustice.

That is no fix.

What should the Jewish heroes do? Look forth while muslims kill them?
Why other muslims countries do not give them some land?
Jews had suffered enough in their history.

[Coyote]

What should the Jewish heroes do? Look forth while muslims kill them?


So in your view it's ok to kill innocent muslims becuase other muslims tried to kill them.....?

Does that make them "heros"?

Sounds Nazi-esque.


Why other muslims countries do not give them some land?


Why can't they have the land that belonged to them?


Jews had suffered enough in their history.

So have the Palestinians. Time to end the farce.

[bokile]

So in your view it's ok to kill innocent muslims becuase other muslims tried to kill them.....?

Does that make them "heros"?

Sounds Nazi-esque.

These innocent muslims are attacking a regular police and army forces. What do you think about that?
Second, muslim terrorists are attacking police from the civilian areas, so many innocenst can die. Why they do that you would think? Because it is the to spread their poison to common folks and hate too. Same tricks were used in Kosovo. In capital city of Bosnia Sarajevo they used same tricks.
I think of you as a very naive American who don't know how sly this animals are.
They are a heros because they defend their holy land and they have every God given right to do so.:cool:

Why can't they have the land that belonged to them?

First they sold the most of it to heroic Jews. Second, they attacked small Israel and lost the war. Third, that land had always belonged to the Jews but they were kicked out long ago.

So have the Palestinians. Time to end the farce.

I want to save them. Lets cut a deal with other 65 or so muslim countries to give them some land. Why would they want holy Jewish land?

[vyo476]

Why would they want holy Jewish land?

It's their home.

[bokile]

It's their home.

Oh, I don't think they consider Israel their home;)

[9sublime]

It's their home.

I've joined a new religion - it says your house is actually my holy land and that you must surrender it because of the hardships some of the people in my religion have faced over that house. Did you know, my ancestors had that house 200 years ago? Regardless of whether you follow my religion or have no interest in it at all, you have to move out.

How does that feel? Fair?

[Coyote]

They are a heros because they defend their holy land and they have every God given right to do so.:cool:


No. They (the Palestinians) simply want their homes, a place to raise their families, work, play and simply live a normal life. They want the same things that Israeli's want for themselves: a homeland, the right to self determination, an economy, and basic human rights.

What's so hard to understand about that? The hard part is how to accomplish it.


First they sold the most of it to heroic Jews. Second, they attacked small Israel and lost the war. Third, that land had always belonged to the Jews but they were kicked out long ago.

First: little was sold, and later - after much international pressure - some renumeration was made but it was miniscule.

Second: "Little Israel" has the most modern and best equipt military and intellegence in the Middle East. Are you actually stupid enough to think the Palestinians come close?


I want to save them. Lets cut a deal with other 65 or so muslim countries to give them some land. Why would they want holy Jewish land?

That would be like saying lets cut a deal with the European countries to give the Jews some land and send them back.

Wouldn't be very fair now would it?

[vyo476]

No. They (the Palestinians) simply want their homes, a place to raise their families, work, play and simply live a normal life. They want the same things that Israeli's want for themselves: a homeland, the right to self determination, an economy, and basic human rights.

I'd extend alter this statement slightly: they both want their homeland, which is really what's causing these problems. The Israelis aren't hypocritical enough to throw all the Palestinians out altogether, scattering them to the wind the way the Jews were thousands of years ago, so the Palestinians stay, in squalid conditions, on the fringes of what was their home - which only increases their desire to have their homeland back. On the other hand, the Israelis are well aware of their centuries of getting kicked out of one place after another and are willing to defend their homeland, their first homeland, tooth and nail.

The only answer that is fair to both is one that involves peaceful coexistence, which neither group appears fully ready for yet. There's just too much mutual distrust and enmity. While most conflicts throughout the world either end or eventually lapse into a state of casual hostility I don't see either thing happening between the Palestinians and the Israelis. I'm legitimately afraid that either one group is going to wind up wiping out the other or they'll wind up destroying each other.

[bokile]

Did you know, my ancestors had that house 200 years ago? Regardless of whether you follow my religion or have no interest in it at all, you have to move out.

How does that feel? Fair?

If I stole your ancestor's house you have every right to kick me out:cool:
You see,a bloody communist stole lot of wealth from my grandfathers, and now 60 years after I want to found their murderers and claim our land and gold back.

[bokile]

coyote

No. They (the Palestinians) simply want their homes, a place to raise their families, work, play and simply live a normal life. They want the same things that Israeli's want for themselves: a homeland, the right to self determination, an economy, and basic human rights.

What's so hard to understand about that? The hard part is how to accomplish it.

I understand them completely. They need to do this on the land they left before conquering Jewish lands.

[bokile]

That would be like saying lets cut a deal with the European countries to give the Jews some land and send them back.

Wouldn't be very fair now would it?

It would not. Jews were forced to leave their homeland and found they home in Europe. There are not from this continet and they never found their happiness on its soil. Now they have every right to claim their land back especially after what had happened to them in WWII.

http://www.shalomjerusalem.com/jerusalem/mufti.gif

http://phillips.blogs.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/06/18/624hitler_uber_allah.jpg

[Coyote]

It would not. Jews were forced to leave their homeland and found they home in Europe. There are not from this continet and they never found their happiness on its soil. Now they have every right to claim their land back especially after what had happened to them in WWII.


Oh...here we go again...another bunch of stupid, pointless out-of-context pictures.

The majority of the Jews in Israel immigrated voluntarily.

What makes them any different from the Palestinians?

What makes you think the Palestinians would "find their happiness" in foreign soil when the Jews (according to you) could not?

Or, is it simply that you employ a double standard?

In other words - if you expect Jordan for example, to take in the Palestinians - why would t be unreasonable to expect Europe or other countries to take in Jews?

[bokile]

Israel is foreign soil to the Palestinians:D
Jews returned home after they were in exile for 1600 years:)
And to tell you there is no nation Palestinians:D Palestine was a region where many different groups of people lived. They had they own national identity and I assure you it was not Palestinian.Even Jews in that region have been called Palestinians because of the name of this region where they lived.
Same thing is with Bosnia. There is no Bosnian nation. You have South Slavs which are Serbs and Croats. Under Turkish rule some have converted to Islam and became Bosnian muslims but their backgroud is still Serb or Croat.
When Serb from Bosnia comes to Serbia he can be called Bosnian just because name of the region where he resides. Serb from Dalmatia for example is called Dalmatinac, or Serb from Belgrade Beogradjanin.
Arabs had to create this new imaginary nation in modern times to take control over beautiful Israel from the heroic Jews.

[Coyote]

Israel is foreign soil to the Palestinians:D


Incorrect.


Jews returned home after they were in exile for 1600 years:)


Incorrect. They had always been there and those that immigrated certainly weren't in excile.


And to tell you there is no nation Palestinians:D Palestine was a region where many different groups of people lived. They had they own national identity and I assure you it was not Palestinian.Even Jews in that region have been called Palestinians because of the name of this region where they lived.
Same thing is with Bosnia. There is no Bosnian nation. You have South Slavs which are Serbs and Croats. Under Turkish rule some have converted to Islam and became Bosnian muslims but their backgroud is still Serb or Croat.
When Serb from Bosnia comes to Serbia he can be called Bosnian just because name of the region where he resides. Serb from Dalmatia for example is called Dalmatinac, or Serb from Belgrade Beogradjanin.
Arabs had to create this new imaginary nation in modern times to take control over beautiful Israel from the heroic Jews.


The Jews weren't the only people living there then and now but somehow you seem to feel they are the only legitimate ones because they had a nation there 1600 years ago?

[bokile]

The Jews weren't the only people living there then and now but somehow you seem to feel they are the only legitimate ones because they had a nation there 1600 years ago?

Even before 1600 years ago:cool:
I thank Jews for taking care of our holy orhthodox places
City is Jewish and always will be but there are a very nice people to keep important sites of other religions that are founded on the Jewish teachings...

Constantine, named Flavius Valerius Constantinus, was born in the Moesian military city of Naissus (Niš, Serbia) on the 27th of February of an uncertain year

During the 4th century, the Roman Emperor Constantine I constructed Christian sites in Jerusalem such as the Church of the Holy Sepulchre. Jerusalem reached a peak in size and population at the end of the Second Temple Period: The city covered two square kilometers (0.8 sq mi.) and had a population of 200,000

[Coyote]

Even before 1600 years ago:cool:
I thank Jews for taking care of our holy orhthodox places
City is Jewish and always will be but there are a very nice people to keep important sites of other religions that are founded on the Jewish teachings...

Constantine, named Flavius Valerius Constantinus, was born in the Moesian military city of Naissus (Niš, Serbia) on the 27th of February of an uncertain year

During the 4th century, the Roman Emperor Constantine I constructed Christian sites in Jerusalem such as the Church of the Holy Sepulchre. Jerusalem reached a peak in size and population at the end of the Second Temple Period: The city covered two square kilometers (0.8 sq mi.) and had a population of 200,000

You are leaving out the entire history of Islam which also constructed and preserved shared holy sites and, when Christian Europe fell into chaos, preserved learning.

It's a shared history. Even if you don't like to accept that.

[Foolosophy]

Israel is in direct violation of the 4th Geneva Convention by remaining an occupying force in the annexed Palestinian territories and carrying out war illegal war cries and atrocities

The 4th Geneva Convention was drafted after WW2 in order to prosecute NAZI war crimes and atrocities.

Is it not ironical that Israel is one of the few nations to be condemned under this convention since WW2 ended??

Its almost 40 years now and the Occupation is getting far more brutal and its illigitimacy remains.

The US funded fascist Israeli satellite state will continue to threaten its own existence and the potential for peace in the region as along as the IDF remains in Occupied Palestine and continues its war crimes against humanity.

I am assuming that Israel actually wants peace and also is NoT an expansionist arrogant power in the region that is conveniently underpinned by US support.

There is no evidence for my assumption though - IS THERE FOLKS
:eek::eek::eek::eek:

[GaiusJuliusCaesarAugustus]

I am assuming that Israel actually wants peace and also is NoT an expansionist arrogant power in the region that is conveniently underpinned by US support.


“We will have peace with the Arabs when they love their children more than they hate us” -Golda Meir

[Jeugenen]

ISLAMOFASCIST AND JUDEOFASCIST SYMBIOSIS

The Islamofascists, in perpetual quest of greater wealth and power, rant to incite the impoverished Islamic peoples to violence against the notorious injustices of the powerful Judeofascist land robbers. The Judeofascists, in perpetual quest for greater wealth and power, wail and lobby to incite the American People into providing military protection against this persecution by outraged Islamofascists. To add credibility to these incessant rantings and wailings, intermittent bloody battles are fought. The result is that these clever Islamofascists and Judeofascists do gain great wealth and power, at the expense of the Arab, Persian, and American peoples.

The great sacrifice of the wealth and blood of the American People on behalf of Israel is all that perpetuates this destructive symbiotic relationship between the Islamofascists and the Judeofascists. But when, in the normal course of the American Cultural War, the Neo-Cons/Neo-Libs are finally expelled by the Reagan Conservatives and Kennedy Liberals from their positions of power, the economic and military support for the Judeofascists will finally end; and that will end the support for the Islamofascists. The end of the era of Neo-Con/Neo-Lib military intervention in the affairs of the Arab and Persian peoples shall be the start of an era of constructive relations with the American People.

The Judeofascists, who live in a glass house surrounded by Islamofascists, could continue to fight for survival militarily, until nuclear armed and governmentally chaotic Israel finally becomes the promised site of Holocaust II; or, they could resort to legal land reparations and honest diplomacy, to finally win for themselves by just and peaceful means, what they cannot win by unjust and violent means.

Shall the United Nations of the World be cheering, and the Diaspora wailing; or, shall the United Nations of the World and the Diaspora be cheering?

[Foolosophy]

“We will have peace with the Arabs when they love their children more than they hate us” -Golda Meir

Golda Meir Hey??

And what cultrual background would Golda Meir have?

Let me guess - could it be Jewish?

Golda Meir is well known for spreading anti-islamic propaganda throught the west.

I think that quote can be ignored as racist bias

[Foolosophy]

ISLAMOFASCIST AND JUDEOFASCIST SYMBIOSIS

The Islamofascists, in perpetual quest of greater wealth and power, rant to incite the impoverished Islamic peoples to violence against the notorious injustices of the powerful Judeofascist land robbers. The Judeofascists, in perpetual quest for greater wealth and power, wail and lobby to incite the American People into providing military protection against this persecution by outraged Islamofascists. To add credibility to these incessant rantings and wailings, intermittent bloody battles are fought. The result is that these clever Islamofascists and Judeofascists do gain great wealth and power, at the expense of the Arab, Persian, and American peoples.

The great sacrifice of the wealth and blood of the American People on behalf of Israel is all that perpetuates this destructive symbiotic relationship between the Islamofascists and the Judeofascists. But when, in the normal course of the American Cultural War, the Neo-Cons/Neo-Libs are finally expelled by the Reagan Conservatives and Kennedy Liberals from their positions of power, the economic and military support for the Judeofascists will finally end; and that will end the support for the Islamofascists. The end of the era of Neo-Con/Neo-Lib military intervention in the affairs of the Arab and Persian peoples shall be the start of an era of constructive relations with the American People.

The Judeofascists, who live in a glass house surrounded by Islamofascists, could continue to fight for survival militarily, until nuclear armed and governmentally chaotic Israel finally becomes the promised site of Holocaust II; or, they could resort to legal land reparations and honest diplomacy, to finally win for themselves by just and peaceful means, what they cannot win by unjust and violent means.

Shall the United Nations of the World be cheering, and the Diaspora wailing; or, shall the United Nations of the World and the Diaspora be cheering?

So the conflict is fueled by 2 identical right wing forces??

Evil agains Evil??

Is it any wonder that the Jews hate Jesus so much. Jesus rejected the violent suprstitious GOD of the Old Tetstament and decided to preach the enlightened philosophies and principles of the ancient hellenic philisophers and other thinkers.

Just the other week JEWISH ORTHODOX YOUTHS burnt 100's of copies of the New Tetstament and the Gospels in Israel.

Didnt get much of a media run in the USA - I wonder why?
:(