View Full Version : Republican Family Values?
Popeye
09-19-2007, 01:20 PM
Check out this list of good upstanding Republicans: http://www.republicansexoffenders.com/
ArmChair General
09-20-2007, 10:10 AM
Check out this list of good upstanding Republicans: http://www.republicansexoffenders.com/
Sounds like my kind of people.
While it may be witty to point out that the party that touts itself on family values has members that are very hypocritical. For me more concerning is that the victims, now become the base of a joke and are therefore victimized once again because of that persons status or belief system and it being pointed out as by the other party. Its horrendous what happens to the victims, but certainly not above board for the democrats to make a point of this.
ArmChair General
09-21-2007, 07:09 AM
While it may be witty to point out that the party that touts itself on family values has members that are very hypocritical. For me more concerning is that the victims, now become the base of a joke and are therefore victimized once again because of that persons status or belief system and it being pointed out as by the other party. Its horrendous what happens to the victims, but certainly not above board for the democrats to make a point of this.
OK mr Alaska man, I'm not sure how they do things up their, but down here where its warm we make fun of everyone equally. including ourselves. even little jimmy that just got boned by his priest gets a good ribbing.
and when i say 'we' i mean me. And when I mean me, I mean just this specific personality thats typing right now.
9sublime
09-21-2007, 09:30 AM
Watch yourself Armchair. This is some thin ice!
ArmChair General
09-21-2007, 09:36 AM
Watch yourself Armchair. This is some thin ice!
"Shut your goddamn face you stupid silly alien atheist."
haha sorry that just cracks me up.
Armchair, while I am one known for having a very open minded sense of humor it was more a chance to just point it out. Its not an Alaskan thing really, because we have the highest rates of sexual assault in the nation. I worked for several months at a womans shelter. Fascinating stuff really. More guys should do it, it would really make one think more about the things they say and do. Trust me, there is nothing more than I like to snicker at is the Republican Senator from Idaho trying to pick up gay sex. The irony is thick. I am just glad it wasnt the Senator from Alaska.
Popeye
09-22-2007, 06:53 AM
Armchair, while I am one known for having a very open minded sense of humor it was more a chance to just point it out. Its not an Alaskan thing really, because we have the highest rates of sexual assault in the nation. I worked for several months at a womans shelter. Fascinating stuff really. More guys should do it, it would really make one think more about the things they say and do. Trust me, there is nothing more than I like to snicker at is the Republican Senator from Idaho trying to pick up gay sex. The irony is thick. I am just glad it wasnt the Senator from Alaska.
I understand that Alaskan Republican Sen. Ted Stevens has his own problems. What with being investigated by both the FBI and IRS for corruption. His house has even been searched. Certainly not uniquely Republican and, for a change, not sexual in nature, but I thought worth mentioning.
top gun
09-22-2007, 07:15 AM
I understand that Alaskan Republican Sen. Ted Stevens has his own problems. What with being investigated by both the FBI and IRS for corruption. His house has even been searched. Certainly not uniquely Republican and, for a change, not sexual in nature, but I thought worth mentioning.
This has been all over the news.
The consensus is that there's no way the authorities would be going in this deep if they didn't have the Senator dead to rights on something. I think we'll see this story on even more Republican corruption has legs. It right now appears to be a bribery situation but maybe much more.
It's not nearly as funny as "Conservative" Republican Senators trying to seduce male Congressional pages... or groping for "toilet paper" ;) on the bathroom floor and playing footsies looking for gay stall sex... but it could be much more damaging.
USMC the Almighty
09-22-2007, 08:40 AM
This has been all over the news.
The consensus is that there's no way the authorities would be going in this deep if they didn't have the Senator dead to rights on something. I think we'll see this story on even more Republican corruption has legs. It right now appears to be a bribery situation but maybe much more.
It's not nearly as funny as "Conservative" Republican Senators trying to seduce male Congressional pages... or groping for "toilet paper" ;) on the bathroom floor and playing footsies looking for gay stall sex... but it could be much more damaging.
Bribery and corruption in politics? No way! At least he's not cutting these deals with Iranian mullahs like liberal hero Jack Murtha.
It really is unfortunate what has happened in Alaskan politics. Right now there is are trials going on for two state house members on bribery charges. The accused briber has plead guilty and is singing loudly. Senator Stevens even 2 years ago was a source of pride and quite a bit of revenue for Alaska. Now he has become somewhat of an embarasement. But good news is we have the best looking governor in the world maybe...google Sara Palin sometime. I have met her, she is even better in person. But on the Alaska front, I think you will see some dramatic changes as a result of the ongoing trials and investigations.
Popeye
09-22-2007, 01:12 PM
It really is unfortunate what has happened in Alaskan politics. Right now there is are trials going on for two state house members on bribery charges. The accused briber has plead guilty and is singing loudly. Senator Stevens even 2 years ago was a source of pride and quite a bit of revenue for Alaska. Now he has become somewhat of an embarasement. But good news is we have the best looking governor in the world maybe...google Sara Palin sometime. I have met her, she is even better in person. But on the Alaska front, I think you will see some dramatic changes as a result of the ongoing trials and investigations.
I'm not surprised that most Alaskans now view Sen. Stevens as a source of embarrassment. Seems, nowadays, that embarrassment and Republicans go hand in hand.
top gun
09-22-2007, 04:19 PM
Bribery and corruption in politics? No way! At least he's not cutting these deals with Iranian mullahs like liberal hero Jack Murtha.
Or Ronald Reagan & Oliver North... Iran-Contra.
I think the point is... yet another new corruption revaluation.
USMC the Almighty
09-22-2007, 04:36 PM
Or Ronald Reagan & Oliver North... Iran-Contra.
Completely different scenarios. Murtha was doing it purely for money. Reagan and North were doing it to undermine the Russians.
You can question their actions in hinesight, but intent matters.
Popeye
09-22-2007, 04:57 PM
Completely different scenarios. Murtha was doing it purely for money. Reagan and North were doing it to undermine the Russians.
You can question their actions in hinesight, but intent matters.
Perhaps you've forgotten some of the latest Republican scandals, this ought to help.http://www.slate.com/id/2165980/ Not completely up to date so it doesn't include Larry Craig who is currently appearing in a bathroom stall near you.
USMC the Almighty
09-22-2007, 05:09 PM
That's it? I'm sure there are plenty more, And some of them have nothing to with Republicans.
Abu Gharib is somehow a "GOP scandal"? Walter Reed? Jack Abramoff worked for both sides.
And then there are of course those "scandals" that I am thankful for such as having the NSA listen to terrorists' phone calls.
And then the fake "scandals" like Gonzalez firing the U.S. attornies, Scooter Libby, etc.
I'm sure there are equally extensive and petty lists about Democrats floating around the internet. This is really not very relevant nor is it conducive to any kind of intellgient discussion.
Popeye
09-22-2007, 05:36 PM
That's it? I'm sure there are plenty more, And some of them have nothing to with Republicans.
Abu Gharib is somehow a "GOP scandal"? Walter Reed? Jack Abramoff worked for both sides.
Abu Gharib is a Republican scandal because it occurred under Bush's watch, the commander in chief. Whatever happened to "the buck stops here". As to Jack Abramoff, he was a member of Bush's transition advisory team. Even as a lobbyist he dealt almost exclusively with Republicans. Republicans such as Tom Delay or former Rep. Bob Ney of Ohio, who was sentenced to prison for accepting bribes. I challenge you to show the Democrats, you claim, that were part of the Abramoff scandal.
top gun
09-22-2007, 05:38 PM
Completely different scenarios. Murtha was doing it purely for money. Reagan and North were doing it to undermine the Russians.
You can question their actions in hinesight, but intent matters.
Intent to circumvent stated public policy & break the law is intent to circumvent public policy & break the law.
Saying that's not the case in Iran-Contra is like saying the Watergate burglary was really just a janitorial endeavor. They just broke in to clean & straighten up the offices.
Maybe I missed something. Murtha has been charged with a crime?
I think the facts Popeye has put out document the Republican problem. And I don't really know why we even need to look at that. Something new seems to be in the paper and on TV almost every day.
No one, no matter how partisan, can truthfully argue that the Republicans haven't shot their selves in the foot with more sexual scandals gay & straight and corruption charges than ever before in such a short time period.
Firstly, I will say I am not a partisan. I think both parties we currently have to realistically choose from are a hinderance to the American system of government. That being said, Top Gun makes a good point in that its seems of late that the GOP has had more than thier share of sexual related scandals. One would have to wonder if this is brought about by retaliation or simply bad karma with raising a serious stink over the Clinton-Lewinsky situation. Which ever side you sit on considering this issue, I think most would agree that it was blown way out of proportion and in the end served no useful purpose. All it did was to embarass and bring the work of congress to a screeching hault for quite awhile.
USMC the Almighty
09-22-2007, 06:52 PM
Firstly, I will say I am not a partisan. I think both parties we currently have to realistically choose from are a hinderance to the American system of government. That being said, Top Gun makes a good point in that its seems of late that the GOP has had more than thier share of sexual related scandals. One would have to wonder if this is brought about by retaliation or simply bad karma with raising a serious stink over the Clinton-Lewinsky situation. Which ever side you sit on considering this issue, I think most would agree that it was blown way out of proportion and in the end served no useful purpose. All it did was to embarass and bring the work of congress to a screeching hault for quite awhile.
Good post, all around.
drippinhun
09-23-2007, 02:01 AM
Difference is these Republican foiables are only in the news for a month or so, whereas the GOP smear machine still has Clinton's affair in the discussions nine years later. So I don't want to hear about proportion. If one screws up as a representative of the people, expect to be tarred and feathered.
Popeye
09-23-2007, 07:13 AM
Difference is these Republican foiables are only in the news for a month or so, whereas the GOP smear machine still has Clinton's affair in the discussions nine years later. So I don't want to hear about proportion. If one screws up as a representative of the people, expect to be tarred and feathered.
The Republicans have much more that Clinton's sexual foibles in the discussions. He has become a scapegoat for all Republican failings. Indeed, their motto appears to be, that when all else fails, blame Clinton. This, from a party that fancies itself as the party of Lincoln. Can you imagine what Lincoln would think about the numerous Republican scandals of today?
Popeye
09-24-2007, 11:26 AM
I guess the Republican scandals that truly abound with hypocrisy are never going to end. In the world of Republicans, soliciting for prostitution and creationism go hand in hand. http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/09/24/republican-senator-at-center-of-dc-madam-scandal-earmarks-100k-for-christian-anti-darwin-group/
drippinhun
09-26-2007, 12:33 AM
I ignore anyone who claims they have moral superiority. I find the callousness of many Republicans to charity, other than inadequate private delivery methods, to be disgusting. Likewise, I'm fed up with the Democrat's tokenism approach. You either fix a problem entirely or move on to something that can be accomplished.
Popeye
10-08-2007, 11:30 AM
Another Toe-Tapping Republican Caught In Sting - Ends Senate Bid
By: Logan Murphy on Monday, October 8th, 2007 at 10:46 AM - PDT
Via Down With Tyranny:
Another Republican elected official– a pal of David Diapers Vitter no less– caught toe-tappin’ in the boys room! And he wants wanted to be a state senator too! Yesterday’s Times-Picayune painted another dismal picture of another Republican pervert who trawls from public restroom to public restroom looking for… love? Well, looking for something. Joey DiFatta is the chairman of St. Bernard Parish Council and a prominent Republican leader (until 2004 on the GOP state party Executive Committee). He just withdrew from his state senate race, after his arrests for lewd behavior in a public restroom were made public. Read more…
From the Times-Picayune article it appears DiFatta may have been Larry “Super Tuber” Craig’s mentor:
The report said DiFatta slid his foot into the deputy’s stall and tapped the deputy’s foot. In the report, Conley noted that such activity is common among men to indicate a willingness to participate in sex.
The deputy inside the stall, Detective Wayne Couvillion, responded by tapping his foot, and DiFatta reached under the partition and began to rub the deputy’s leg, the report states.
The detective asked DiFatta, “What do you want?” according to the report, and he replied, “I want to play with you.”
Filed Under: GOP, Scandals
USMC the Almighty
10-08-2007, 01:05 PM
I want to know what that officer did wrong to get that job.
top gun
10-08-2007, 02:32 PM
Another Toe-Tapping Republican Caught In Sting - Ends Senate Bid
By: Logan Murphy on Monday, October 8th, 2007 at 10:46 AM - PDT
Via Down With Tyranny:
Another Republican elected official– a pal of David Diapers Vitter no less– caught toe-tappin’ in the boys room! And he wants wanted to be a state senator too! Yesterday’s Times-Picayune painted another dismal picture of another Republican pervert who trawls from public restroom to public restroom looking for… love? Well, looking for something. Joey DiFatta is the chairman of St. Bernard Parish Council and a prominent Republican leader (until 2004 on the GOP state party Executive Committee). He just withdrew from his state senate race, after his arrests for lewd behavior in a public restroom were made public. Read more…
From the Times-Picayune article it appears DiFatta may have been Larry “Super Tuber” Craig’s mentor:
The report said DiFatta slid his foot into the deputy’s stall and tapped the deputy’s foot. In the report, Conley noted that such activity is common among men to indicate a willingness to participate in sex.
The deputy inside the stall, Detective Wayne Couvillion, responded by tapping his foot, and DiFatta reached under the partition and began to rub the deputy’s leg, the report states.
The detective asked DiFatta, “What do you want?” according to the report, and he replied, “I want to play with you.”
Filed Under: GOP, Scandals
WHAT IS THE DEAL WITH THE PUBLIC RESTROOMS!!! Is it the thrill of trying to not get caught? With all those Bush upper end tax breaks surely these pubbies can afford to get a room :)! I just don't get the bathroom attraction I guess.
Popeye
10-08-2007, 06:13 PM
WHAT IS THE DEAL WITH THE PUBLIC RESTROOMS!!! Is it the thrill of trying to not get caught? With all those Bush upper end tax breaks surely these pubbies can afford to get a room :)! I just don't get the bathroom attraction I guess.
I can't quite figure it out either. I mean, the hypocrisy of it all is obvious, but the bathroom attraction, really strange. I think you might of hit on something about it being the thrill of doing it in public and trying not to get caught. They must be mighty ashamed of those urges too, otherwise why hide behind a public face of moral superiority.
Who knew about this type of interaction. Granted I live in the middle of nowhere Alaska. Until the Senator Craig situation I had never heard of this going on at all. Granted I am a straight man, but despite being very well traveled throughout the US and a fair amount overseas I had never heard of this, nor has anyone ever done anything like that in the stall next to me. Plus how the hell does someone spread thier legs that far with thier pants around thier ankles? I know these stalls arent large. But the physical motion of it seems to be a bit over the top to me. I dont care what people do in the privacy of thier own homes or even in hotel rooms etc. But sex in a public bathroom? Not that I am a neat freak, but that seems the most unsanitary location possible.
Popeye
10-26-2007, 04:18 PM
Remember that denial from our favorite Republican, Larry Craig, "I'm not gay, I never have been gay". The following is just a summary, the second link is the full story.
Man: I had sex with Larry Craig
A man has come forward with a claim that he has engaged in gay sex with scandalized Idaho Senator Larry Craig (R-ID), who pleaded guilty to charges resulting from a sex sting in the Minneapolis, MN airport. The encounter was reported by Wonkette, a popular DC-based blog.
"I went pale and nearly vomited," says David Phillips, speaking of a recent night in a bar, through which Larry Craig's voice came out of a nearby television.
As a student at George Mason University in 1987, Phillips says he was at the now defunct bar La Cage au Follies, where "closeted neocons" were known to gather and seek out men for sex. According to Phillips, he followed Senator Craig to a residence, where the two of them engaged in what is called "clumsy and unremarkable" sex.
After the encounter, Phillips says that he was given $20 and told by the Senator that "I can buy and sell your ass ten thousand times over. You were never here." He was then rushed out of the house, never to return, but not before he glanced at an envelope that had "Suzanne Craig," the name of Senator Craig's wife, written on it.http://pageoneq.com/news/2007/Man_I_had_sex_with_Larry_C_1025.htmlhttp://wonkette.com/politics/larry-craig-scandal/exclusive-i-had-sex-with-larry-craig-314897.php
Remember that denial from our favorite Republican, Larry Craig, "I'm not gay, I never have been gay". The following is just a summary, the second link is the full story.
Putting all the partisanship aside, I cant take this at face value.
A little "clumsy and unremarkable" sex 20 years ago?
How come he didnt come forward with this earlier?
Because he thinks he can make money from it.
How many phonies make these claims after the fact in an effort to get money
and notariety?
Popeye
10-26-2007, 05:46 PM
Putting all the partisanship aside, I cant take this at face value.
A little "clumsy and unremarkable" sex 20 years ago?
How come he didnt come forward with this earlier?
Because he thinks he can make money from it.
How many phonies make these claims after the fact in an effort to get money
and notariety?
Here is the largest publication in Craig's home state with a different claim, same subject, from a couple of months ago. . BTW, they have been investigating these claims for years, but were afraid to publish until the infamous stall incident. The Idaho Statesman is considered a reputable source.http://www.idahostatesman.com/1264/story/144047.html
Popeye,
Fair enough, I wont even bother reading it, but thanks for posting it. If he has been a closet gay all his life, well I feel really bad for him as a person for forcing or having been forced to live a lie. There is little doubt this whole incident is just another in a long line of hypocrisy from the GOP.
top gun
10-27-2007, 05:23 AM
The real crime isn't just Larry Craig... as hilarious (read that sad) as his stall trolling is.
It's the organized duping of the American people by the Republican Party. You have to be brain dead to not know that the Party knows they have all kinds in their Party. But because of the fact if they were more diverse they would seem more Democratic they set up this small little neo-con tent, thump the Bible and rail against anything remotely gay, sexual, or Pro-Choice.
People we seriously need to come together on this fighting harder than EVER before in the upcoming 08 election. I'm being DEAD serious! This is not a "funny" situation at all to be taken lightly.
We worry about the Taliban while there's a group right here at home that would LOVE... I mean REALLY LOVE to create a nation right here at home that would move heavily in a "Christian" Taliban direction.
Listen to neo-con talk radio (barf bag in hand) or any of the major Evangelists and what will you hear? You'll hear... because of "God" (and men) women should be stripped of their right to maintain control over their own bodies and be forced to incubate children. Gays should not have equal rights and laws should be reimplemented to make certain gay activities illegal. Free speech & freedom of expression should be banished when it comes to Adult magazines, movies and clubs.
This is real stuff. Small but vocal groups of Taliban Christians are pushing all kinds of idiotic things on our elected officials... and it then takes the courts to bring back the Constitution.
Here's an example: One Holy Rollin' group from out of Cincinnati came up to Columbus and relentlessly lobbied local lawmakers for a law... now get this because it's just about to go into effect... All Adult bookstores and get this GO-GO Bars have to close at midnight and the dancers in the GO-GO Bars can be arrested if they brush up against or even shake the hand of any patron. No touching in any way. And this includes after they are out of the bikinis and into their street clothes as long as they are inside the Club.
COME ON PEOPLE!!! I haven't been in a GO-GO Bar for years (hence the fact I still call them GO-GO Bars :D) but my buddies and I used to go to 'em all the time back in the day. Heck I've dated several smokin' hot dancers and I don't know how many bachelor parties I've been to. THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH ANY OF THIS!!!:mad:
If these repressed lunatics could have their way to the end degree mini skirts would be banned... women would legally have to wear a bra... saying a cuss word could have you fined or jailed and if you took your girlfriend to and bar and you two dance a little too provocatively. Hello... Taliban!
Everyone knows the courts will strike this down but the Christian Taliban doesn't care. Their whole objective is to financially strangle legal businesses out of business during the time that takes. They know if they can put these restrictions on business for a year or so many will go out of business & people will lose their jobs and that's all GREAT to them.
Rise up people. 08 is critically important. I'll give you a little quote from the past about Nazis and see if it doesn't sound strikingly familiar...
First they came after the Gays and I did nothing...
Then they came after the Jews and I still did nothing...
Then they came after me.
Get involved people! America is great because we are not all the same!
sidebar: This is not a condemnation of Christians as a whole. My family is Christian and I went to a nice Lutheran Church... but I still know when something is wrong from an American perspective. There's a difference between practicing ones faith and forcing your beliefs on someone else.
Popeye
10-27-2007, 10:09 AM
I agree completely top gun. For me, posting items about Larry Craig and others is all about pointing out Republican hypocrisy. Notice how these lists just keep on growing.http://www.dkosopedia.com/wiki/Republican_Sex_Scandalshttp://www.republicansexoffenders.com/http://www.dkosopedia.com/wiki/Examples_of_Republican_hypocrisy_on_moral_values
Popeye
10-30-2007, 06:26 AM
Sound familiar?
07:10 AM PDT on Tuesday, October 30, 2007
By JIM FORMAN / KING 5 News and KREM.com Staff
Rep. Richard Curtis says he's not gay.
SPOKANE - Spokane Police confirm they have an active investigation into an attempt to extort money from Washington state lawmaker Richard Curtis.
Rep. Curtis, 48, a Republican from southwestern Washington, was in Spokane last week attending a retreat with other Republican lawmakers to discuss the upcoming legislative session.
Police confirmed they were called to the Davenport Hotel and Tower and that officers have executed search warrants.
Police refused to name the suspect in the alleged shakedown other than to say it's another man and declined to say how the two know each other.
The police department is not expected to release evidence in the case to prosecutors until Tuesday or Wednesday. Curtis is expected to released a statement Tuesday regarding the investigation.
Rep. Richard Curtis
KREM.com reports that according to detectives, Curtis and the man were spotted at several locations across the city Thursday evening and that Curtis had a sexual encounter with a man, whom police have not identified.
On Friday, someone filed a police report alleging that Curtis was being extorted.
Curtis has not responded on camera, but he told the Columbian newspaper he's done nothing wrong.
"I committed no crime. I did not solicit sex. I was trying to help somebody out,” he said.
The two-term House member adds, "I am not gay. I have not had sex with a guy."
Monday, detectives interviewed witnesses and gathered surveillance video.
In Curtis' town of La Center, constituents reacted with disbelief.
"I'm not a close friend, being seeing him around town, I don't believe Richard would do anything like that," said Julie Kelly, La Center resident.
Curtis, a Republican, represents the 18th District in southwestern Washington. According to his online biography, Curtis is a New Mexico native who moved to Washington eleven years ago.
USMC the Almighty
10-30-2007, 08:38 AM
A little infatuated with gay sex, are we Popeye?
Popeye
10-30-2007, 08:55 AM
A little infatuated with gay sex, are we Popeye?
Funny, no what I'm making clear is that Republicans, of this sort, are extreme hypocrites.
top gun
10-30-2007, 06:11 PM
Funny, no what I'm making clear is that Republicans, of this sort, are extreme hypocrites.
You're right and it really is a shame.
If everybody would just get down off their high horse and concentrate on taking care of their own families and stick to really trying to mind their own business half of the confrontation between groups would be over.
Don't like abortion... don't have one. Nobody's forcing anyone to have one. Leave the women that feel they do need one alone.
Don't care for Gay sex... don't have Gay sex. Nobody's making anybody have Gay sex.
Want to be really super devoted religiously... be as super devoted as you want... heck become a priest or a nun if you want. Just let others believe in whatever way they want without trying to evangalise... prostalatize... convert or insist on putting others down because they don't believe the same as you do.
I remember my 90 year old grandfather saying things like... This is America people can do what they choose to do... and... It's a free country I can do what I want no one else has to.
I like people with strong beliefs that tell you them when they're asked but don't think it's their mission in life to tell others what the heck to do. But that's just me... ;)
Don't like abortion... don't have one. Nobody's forcing anyone to have one. Leave the women that feel they do need one alone.
I mentioned this in another thread. According to my opponent, there have been 40million abortions in America since RvW. This is not a number I am proud of, but what would the GOP say about all of the entitlement spending to support those unwanted kids?
USMC the Almighty
10-30-2007, 06:58 PM
Don't like abortion... don't have one. Nobody's forcing anyone to have one. Leave the women that feel they do need one alone.
Don't like slavery?...don't own slaves. Nobody's forcing you to have slaves. Leave the landowners that feel they do need slaves alone.
Who are you to say what's morally right and wrong? Just get off your high horse and concentrate on your own family and mind your own business.
Who are you to say what's morally right and wrong? Just get off your high horse and concentrate on your own family and mind your own business.
USMC, you know I like you buddy.
That is the very argument that I use as a pro-choice guy.
top gun
10-31-2007, 03:09 AM
I mentioned this in another thread. According to my opponent, there have been 40million abortions in America since RvW. This is not a number I am proud of, but what would the GOP say about all of the entitlement spending to support those unwanted kids?
I too have discussed this before. The fact of the matter is there have been abortions ever since there have been pregnancies. No one can ever effectively control another persons body in this way.
Now a society could make it more costly or definitely much less safe. But allowing the rich to be the only ones with the option of having an abortion because they have the means to travel greater distances is on it's face totally unfair.
We have to recognize that in almost every (might have been every) advanced country abortion is legal & safe. I've posted the list before.
Education and easy cheap access to birth control are the most effective alternatives to abortion along with explaining the virtues of abstinence. Putting women in jail for not allowing someone else force them to carry to term certainly isn't any solution at all.
Keep government out of people's private lives.
top gun
10-31-2007, 03:28 AM
Don't like slavery?...don't own slaves. Nobody's forcing you to have slaves. Leave the landowners that feel they do need slaves alone.
Who are you to say what's morally right and wrong? Just get off your high horse and concentrate on your own family and mind your own business.
I know that in many cases you would agree with me that government interference & government regulation are a bad thing.
On the abortion issue it's not what you or I think is morally right or medically necessary that counts. It's what the women in her own personal, private, family situation must weigh. Heck I think it's immoral for Evangelists to take any money over their raw expences... but it's not my decision.
Slavery was a situation where a person living completely on his or her own was being forced to do things against their will and often treated badly.
In the abortion scenario the fetus cannot live on it's own as it has not developed enough to do so. Just as spontaneous miscarriages happen all the time an abortion is nothing more than a planned miscarriage.
It just isn't right to bring back the stigma of old with the back alley abortion clinics. Or as we now have much greater and easily assessable information some home concoction that still creates the abortion but greatly reduces the safety to women of a certified medical doctor being involved.
Everyone wants less abortions but going back in time and away from all the other advanced countries is not the solution. Better education, birth control along with highly suggesting abstinence are the course to take.
But at the end of the day no one should approve the stripping of the final decision away from the actual woman involved to choose either to have or not have a child.
That's just my opinion and I get there from being a husband, father of 2 daughters in their early and late 20's, an as a grandfather. A lot of women giving me input into this that I respect and know to be excellent people.
USMC the Almighty
10-31-2007, 03:44 AM
USMC, you know I like you buddy.
That is the very argument that I use as a pro-choice guy.
I know it is -- that was my point. A 150 years ago, that exact same argument could be used to support slavery. Now it's being used to support abortion.
My point was yes, the government should rarely interfere in people's private lives as long as they are not harming anyone else. It's when someone is infringing on another's individual sovereignty -- as in the case of slavery and abortion -- that I believe the government should step in.
Popeye
10-31-2007, 09:58 AM
This is the kind of hypocrisy I'm talking about, notice how he votes. Curtis and Craig, cover boys, and I use that term loosely, for Republican family values hypocrisy. BTW, this is a big story out here.
Story Updated: Oct 31, 2007 at 7:12 AM PDT
By Associated Press
Watch the story
SPOKANE, Wash. (AP) - A Republican state legislator from southwest Washington had sex with a man he met at an erotic video store and then told police he had been targeted in an extortion attempt, according to police documents released Tuesday.
State Rep. Richard Curtis, R-La Center, who on Monday declared, "I have not had sex with a guy," told police he was the victim in an extortion attempt by Cody Castagna at the posh Davenport Tower hotel on Oct. 26, search warrant documents said.
Castagna, 26, of nearby Medical Lake, told police that Curtis, 48, agreed to pay him $1,000 for sex, then reneged on the promise. Police reports also said witnesses told them Curtis dressed in women's lingerie at the erotic store, and records showed Curtis purchased two gay pornographic films from the hotel to watch with Castagna.
Numerous efforts to reach Curtis or his lawyer, John Wolfe, by phone on Tuesday were not successful.
Curtis is married and has children, according to his legislative Web site. Elected to the state House of Representatives in 2004, he has voted against gay rights legislation.
Curtis was among state GOP lawmakers who were in Spokane last Wednesday through Friday for a retreat to discuss the upcoming legislative session.
He went to the Hollywood Erotic Boutique in Spokane early on Oct. 26 and met Castagna, who accompanied him to the hotel, the police documents said.
The two arrived at the hotel around 3:34 a.m. and had sex, after which Curtis fell asleep, according to the documents.
Curtis alleged that Castagna took his wallet and later offered to return it for $1,000. Curtis said he only had $200 and left an envelope with the money at the hotel desk, the documents said.
Castagna called Curtis and demanded an additional $800, and threatened to expose Curtis, according to police reports. But Curtis had already contacted Spokane police, who listened to the call and then met with Castagna.
There have been no arrests in the case and no charges filed.
Castagna, who appeared Tuesday at a Spokane news conference with his lawyer, David Partovi, said the lawmaker "has completely changed what actually happened and turned it around for his favor."
The young man told police and reporters that Curtis gave him his wallet to hold as collateral "for the money that he promised me." Partovi refused to let his client tell reporters what he did for the money, noting Castagna had already spoken voluntarily with police.
"Cody Castagna admitted threatening to publicly expose Richard Curtis' gay lifestyle to his wife unless Richard Curtis provided the disputed money," the police documents said.
Partovi refused to let Castagna respond to a question about whether he threatened to "out" Curtis.
The lawyer noted extortion "is a violent Class B felony" and declared that his client "didn't do anything wrong, at that level anyway."
Police spokeswoman Jennifer DeRuwe said the evidence collected by police was given to the Spokane County prosecutor's office, which will decide if criminal charges are warranted. The deputy prosecutor who will review the report was not in the office Tuesday afternoon and will receive the information Wednesday, said a prosecutor's receptionist.
In his only public comments, Curtis told The Columbian newspaper of Vancouver, Wash., that he did not solicit anyone for sex.
"I committed no crime," Curtis told the newspaper Monday. "I did not solicit sex. I was trying to help somebody out."
Curtis, a former firefighter, declared, "I am not gay."
In his initial statement to police, Curtis denied offering money for sex, and denied having sex at all. He told officers he believed he had been slipped "some type of drug" because he did not have a clear recollection of events.
The police report added that Curtis told officers he only wanted his wallet back "and wanted to keep the incident as low key as possible." He did not want to pursue charges against Castagna, the report said.
But as the investigation continued, police said Curtis admitted to having sex with Castagna in Curtis' hotel room.
According to the report, Curtis said he initially gave Castagna $100 as gas money, and said he did not consider that paying for sex.
Police interviewed several witnesses at the Hollywood Erotic Boutique, and according to the report, Curtis walked into a bathroom at the store early on the morning of Oct. 26 and a few minutes later left the bathroom wearing long red women's stockings and a black sequined lingerie top. A witness told police that shortly after that he saw a man with a cane performing a sexual act on Curtis in an upstairs room.
Police also interviewed Jalene Henneman, a Hollywood Exotic Boutique employee, who told them Curtis had been in the store three separate times in the past month, and called him "the cross dresser." Henneman said Curtis told her his wife knew he was gay, but that he only pursued sex with men when he was out of town, according to the report.
The police report said Curtis told the investigating detective by phone on the morning of Oct. 27 that he was in Cle Elum because he had wrecked his car on the drive home. Curtis also told the detective he "would have to tell his wife the truth and he would have to get a divorce attorney."
In 2005 and 2006, Curtis voted against a bill that granted civil rights protections to gays and lesbians.
In 2007, Curtis voted against a bill that created domestic partnerships for same-sex couples.
Both measures eventually passed the Democratic-controlled state Legislature and are now part of state law.
State Republican leaders have declined comment on the casehttp://www.komotv.com/news/10895226.html
That is a shame to hear. Its also a shame the victims in these crimes have to be traumatized again through the extended media coverage.
Popeye
10-31-2007, 01:38 PM
Update on "I'm not gay" Republican Rep. Richard Curtis, he has now resigned in disgrace. So, that's the end of that, until another family values Republican, with something to hide, surfaces.http://www.komotv.com/news/10924461.html
Popeye,
Is any of the Alaska corruption trials news getting to you guys in Washington?
The latest trial number 3 of 5 has gone to the jury. The first two were felony convictions in multiple counts of bribery and fraud etc.
The thing is, the state rep on trial has this somewhat famous lawyer from the seattle area. John Henry Browne. Story claims he is quite well known down there. You heard of this fella?
http://www.adn.com/front/story/9413387p-9326056c.html
One thing's for sure about John Henry Browne.
Humble he's not.
He's the Seattle lawyer defending former state Rep. Vic Kohring on federal corruption charges, and he is on a roll.
"If you can find an attorney with a better record, hire them," says a half-page ad that Browne took out in the October issue of the Washington state Bar News. There's a brooding portrait of Browne and mentions of his high ratings in a lawyer directory.
Down in Washington state, by his reckoning, he's won five criminal cases at trial since September 2006. A teenager accused of murder: not guilty. A foster father charged with child rape: not guilty. A teacher accused of messing around with kids: case dismissed by the judge after the state put on its evidence.
Now he's trying to keep Kohring out of prison, and he's up against two federal prosecutors on a team that's 2-0 against public corruption in Alaska. Kohring is accused of conspiring with two former Veco Corp. executives to push their favored version of a new oil tax in the 2006 legislative session.
What prosecutors call bribes, Browne calls gifts from friends.
Popeye
10-31-2007, 03:37 PM
Only through his association with Ted Bundy. He did make some news this past summer for getting upset over the "average" rating he received from an on line lawyer service. There is no doubt, however, that he is high profile and high priced.http://www.avvo.com/all-law.html?sort_by=lastname_asc&lastname=Browne&page_offset=60&limit_per_page=30http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/319132_avvo09.html
dragonfly5
10-31-2007, 05:34 PM
Completely different scenarios. Murtha was doing it purely for money. Reagan and North were doing it to undermine the Russians.
You can question their actions in hinesight, but intent matters.
It's not different, you just won't admit the truth!
BTW, you don't know their intent. You only know what they say their intent was, and considering it was Reagan and North, I wouldn't believe a thing these two crooks say.
dragonfly5
10-31-2007, 05:41 PM
A little infatuated with gay sex, are we Popeye?
This is funny coming from a man who lives in close proximity to other men in a barracks. Maybe you've done some toe-tapping we don't know about?
Only through his association with Ted Bundy. He did make some news this past summer for getting upset over the "average" rating he received from an on line lawyer service. There is no doubt, however, that he is high profile and high priced.http://www.avvo.com/all-law.html?sort_by=lastname_asc&lastname=Browne&page_offset=60&limit_per_page=30http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/319132_avvo09.html
Quite interesting. I didnt realise about Ted Bundy. That case didnt work out to well for him. So by your statement makes me think the accuracy of the story. I have the sinking feeling this will be a loss in his book. If he does prevail in this trial. It would be unwise for him to return to this state again.
He will be a very unpopular person and I would be concerned for his safety.
USMC the Almighty
10-31-2007, 06:35 PM
This is funny coming from a man who lives in close proximity to other men in a barracks. Maybe you've done some toe-tapping we don't know about?
Toetapping in the Corps? Hell no. You must be thinking of the Desk Force.
Toetapping in the Corps? Hell no. You must be thinking of the Desk Force.
See I always heard the Marine Corps used liquid soap in the showers because it takes longer to pick up ;) Long lonely cruises my friend...
Popeye
10-31-2007, 07:04 PM
Quite interesting. I didnt realise about Ted Bundy. That case didnt work out to well for him. So by your statement makes me think the accuracy of the story. I have the sinking feeling this will be a loss in his book. If he does prevail in this trial. It would be unwise for him to return to this state again.
He will be a very unpopular person and I would be concerned for his safety.
I just read more about the case (link below), and it would certainly appear as if Kohring has accepted bribes and favors from VECO, still I would not be the least bit surprised if Browne's client is exonerated. High profile, flamboyant lawyers seem to hypnotize, some would call it intimidate, a court room. So it is with Browne.http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/6600AP_WST_Pipeline_Bribe.html
I would be highly surprised to be honest. If there is one thing that is generally unpopular in Alaska it is lawyers, much less flamboyant ones.
They have the video tape evidence. They have two other convictions based on very similar video and tiretapping evidence of state lawmakers taking bribes from VECO CEO Bill Allen.
I will note that before this all come down, Bill Allen was quite popular in Alaska. He was always generous with his millions towards charities...he just happened to extend it to people he shouldnt have. He turned states evidence quicker than that a yellow right to red on the interstate.
USMC the Almighty
11-01-2007, 03:47 AM
See I always heard the Marine Corps used liquid soap in the showers because it takes longer to pick up ;) Long lonely cruises my friend...
Haha, that was back when we were toted around on the Navy's sailboats.
ilikeboobs
11-01-2007, 08:10 AM
http://www.democratsexoffenders.com/
oh yeah?
Haha, that was back when we were toted around on the Navy's sailboats.
When was that? Like last week? Im just giving you ****. I actually heard the joke the first time from a jarhead talking about squids. One can twist it any way they like...its like the republican spin machine!
USMC the Almighty
11-01-2007, 03:40 PM
One can twist it any way they like...its like the republican spin machine!
Yeee-hawww!
Yeee-hawww!
LOL,
Jarhead, tell me this. What is the status of the corps sidearm. Are you still using the M-9? I heard somewhere, there was going to be a move away from it. Any updates on this? Beretta makes a fine gone. The civ equivalent the model 92 is a very smooth gun. But Christ for a combat mission, no thanks.
Moving to 9mm continues to be a bad idea to me.
USMC the Almighty
11-01-2007, 04:50 PM
Yessir, still the M9 Beretta.
Any thoughts on it? When will the change happen? I have heard talk of going to HKs, Kimber 1911 clones or Glocks. I own a glock model 21. I would gladly bring that thing to the sandbox and trust it to work.
USMC the Almighty
11-01-2007, 05:42 PM
Any thoughts on it? When will the change happen? I have heard talk of going to HKs, Kimber 1911 clones or Glocks. I own a glock model 21. I would gladly bring that thing to the sandbox and trust it to work.
Haha, yeah. It doesn't really matter to me either way, I'm a helo pilot (HMX-1). I'm pretty good with the M9 on the range. Have never fired it in anger but I'm perfectly comfortable with it.
Word on the street (and this is significant hearsay so don't take it too seriously) is a move to the Glock.
A much bigger debate is what will eventually replace the M-16. My personal opinion is that it will be the M8 Carbine.
EDIT: Here's a picture of the M8:
http://www.murdoconline.net/pics/xm8c.jpg
I have read about the Xm-8. Sounds like it would be a kick in the pants to shoot. Seems like a fine weapons system.
USMC the Almighty
11-01-2007, 06:41 PM
I have read about the Xm-8. Sounds like it would be a kick in the pants to shoot. Seems like a fine weapons system.
Where'd you hear that from? And it is the next step in terms of weaponry. What's appealing to me and why I think they are going to use it is because it addresses the number 1 issue with the M-16: reliability. It's also a lot lighter (though the M16 isn't particularly heavy).
Where'd you hear that from? And it is the next step in terms of weaponry. What's appealing to me and why I think they are going to use it is because it addresses the number 1 issue with the M-16: reliability. It's also a lot lighter (though the M16 isn't particularly heavy).
I read just about every gun magazine there is. Id have to go back and look, but it might have been Soldier of Fortune who featured an article on it.
I really am an avid hunter and trap shooter. Always lookin for new toys.
top gun
11-02-2007, 12:04 PM
I read just about every gun magazine there is. Id have to go back and look, but it might have been Soldier of Fortune who featured an article on it.
I really am an avid hunter and trap shooter. Always lookin for new toys.
Bunz hunting with some version of an M8. The wildlife in Alaska would have about as much chance as a friend on a Dick Cheney Quail shoot... LoL! :D
I wouldn't be surprised to see the switch to Glock for a sidearm. Almost all the major police forces have switched to it and swear by 'em.
Always kinda wondered about the going to 9mm thing (and I am a huge 9mm fan for the accuracy... own the Beretta). But the knockdown power is so much better with the 45. I suppose the added accuracy & extra rounds might make up for it.
not bad gun knowledge for a Lib huh? LoL! ;)
Popeye
11-02-2007, 07:29 PM
Check this out:Lost a Watch in Men's Room? Call Larry Craig's Office
Staffers on Capitol Hill are howling over an e-mail sent from Sen. Larry Craig's office Friday about a watch found -- guess where -- in the men's room!
The e-mail, which is being forwarded pretty much all over the place on Capitol Hill, is from Pat Olsen, the embattled Idaho Republican's administrative director.
The e-mail announced that a watch was found in the men's room on the fifth floor of the Hart Senate Office Building, where Craig's office is located. On its face, the message suggests that a male staffer (possibly even Sen. Craig, the notorious men's room foot tapper) found the watch.
Olsen confirmed to The Sleuth that she authored the message. Without divulging her e-mail address, here is the text:
From: [Pat Olsen]
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 4:03 PM
To: ADMGR@
Subject: Watch found in the men's room
Watch found in the men's room on the 5th floor in the NW Corner of the Hart Building. It is not working, but if someone from your office lost it, please let me know.
Pat Olsen
Administrative Director
Senator Larry E. CraigThose Republicans, always good for a laugh.http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/11/02/sen-craigs-office-sends-_n_70975.htmlhttp://blog.washingtonpost.com/sleuth/2007/11/anyone_in_the_senate_missing_a.html
Bunz hunting with some version of an M8. The wildlife in Alaska would have about as much chance as a friend on a Dick Cheney Quail shoot... LoL! :D
I wouldn't be surprised to see the switch to Glock for a sidearm. Almost all the major police forces have switched to it and swear by 'em.
Always kinda wondered about the going to 9mm thing (and I am a huge 9mm fan for the accuracy... own the Beretta). But the knockdown power is so much better with the 45. I suppose the added accuracy & extra rounds might make up for it.
not bad gun knowledge for a Lib huh? LoL! ;)
If it wasnt a .223 Id give it a go. I have a mini-14 in the same caliber that I use for small game. Otherwise its a 7mm rem. mag or .338 for me on medium-large game(which would be large and very large game to you lower 48ers)
I am an advocate for the 45acp. Plenty of my buddies carry 44mags for woods. I would rather have 13 rounds that I am willing and able to shoot quickly, than 6 with enough power to hurt my hand. If I cant do the job with 13rounds at close range, wipe my ass and call me lunch.
r0beph
11-03-2007, 12:40 AM
I'm pretty liberal and I like guns. They're necessary at times as the whole world isn't up for peaceful resolution all the time. I'm just slow on the draw when the intent is preemptive and not absolute, or is missing complete information as to whats going on. Just wish our government followed suit with that ideology.
As for stopping power 9mm vs. .45cal, an on target hit with a 9mm is as deadly as a .45, the refire accuracy is MUCH greater since the kick is almost unnoticeable with the 9mm glock. when it comes to body armor in criminals even with a trauma plate I'd prefer a 9mm, as 5 accurate shots to the chest plate can still puncture it, and if not it'll break enough ribs to make breathing near impossible, a .45 cannot assure an accurate 5 shot to the same 8" area. I saw a demo at a law enforcement expo about the difference between .45, .40, and 9mm against armored targets. To be honest, I'd say go .40 as it's a nice balance of power and accuracy. The chest plate took 3 shots with a .40, 2 with the .45 (it didn't puncture it, but the force bent it, I guess it was a steal plate and not one of those carbon/ceramic jobs which it may have shattered, I'm not sure the displacement from the shattering at that force however) the 9 took about 5 shots to put a small hole that only allowed fragments to enter the gel block behind the vest, as the plate still shattered the bullets. (I worked EMS here for a while and we got to go to those cool expos) They also had some crazy cutting edge stuff, like road spikes that laid flat until the suspect vehicle approached at which time they could be remotely raised, to allow spiking of high traffic areas, even had some video demo of an emp thing to use against cars, it was kinda like a spike strip, but didn't blow the tires , I guess to make it less likely to wreck at high speeds and to stop them from still driving on blown tires....
anyhow, I don't even know what the original topic was of this thread...*shrug*
anyhow, I don't even know what the original topic was of this thread...*shrug*
It was a sex scandal, but turned to guns somewhow. Probably my fault really. But I dont think anyone will disagree that guns arent a Republican family values.
I wont disagree with your sentiments in auto-pistol calibers. On my own personal decision. I am not shooting at man sized targets wearing potential body armor. I would be shooting at large hairy brown creatures. I actually practice extensively with my pistol in regards to these situations. Id much rather die an old man and say I never needed it though.
Popeye
11-03-2007, 04:51 PM
Here's something interesting for you Ann Coulter fans, a song about her.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ye_2a7Lrl80
vyo476
11-03-2007, 05:08 PM
Here's something interesting for you Ann Coulter fans, a song about her.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ye_2a7Lrl80
Oh Anne Coulter...
She and Fred Phelps should get together.
And have little hate-babies.
Oh Anne Coulter...
She and Fred Phelps should get together.
And have little hate-babies.
Ah see I think her and Bunz should get together at least and go through baby making actions. Not sure if babies need be involved. But at least Bunz-Coulter babies would be moderates!
r0beph
11-03-2007, 06:54 PM
Oh Anne Coulter...
She and Fred Phelps should get together.
And have little hate-babies.
Is Manne Coulter even capable of having children?
Popeye
11-04-2007, 07:07 AM
Is Manne Coulter even capable of having children?
There, of course, has been some speculation that Ann Coulter is in reality a man. Some evidence points in that direction, toothpick legs, a visible Adams apple, the lack of feminine curves. Could this be another Republican hiding something? Listen to the video, in it George Will refers to Ann Coulter as "him".http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/images/blpic-coulteradamsapple.htmhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q16FCxphcYQ
Popeye
11-05-2007, 07:15 PM
Check out this ad from the Kentucky Republican party and Pat Boone for tomorrows governors race. This from the party of, Mark Foley (R-FL) and Larry Craig (R-ID) to Bob Allen (R-FL), Richard Curtis (R-WA), Joey DiFatta (R-LA), Ed Schrock (R-VA) and who knows who else.Hello friends this is Pat Boone a fellow Kentuckian by descent from grandaddy Dan'l. I've always been proud of Kentucky's stance on patriotic, military and moral issues; a great heritage. Now, as an American and a Christian I am very conservative about the upcoming governor's election. Ernie Fletcher is a typical Kentuckian, he's worked long and hard for the state, its people, and its traditions. And, of course, he has come under attack by political opponents and now he faces a man who wants his job who has consistently supported every homosexual cause: same sex marriage, gay adoption, special rights, to gay, lesbian, bisexual, even transgender individuals.
The problem (inaudible) gay advocacy groups (inaudible) enthusiastically endorse Beshear, knowing he's their guy. Kentuckians have already voted to amend the state constitution to prohibit same sex marriage. Now, do you want governor who'd like Kentucky to be like another San Francisco? Please reelect Ernie Fletcher.
This message paid for by the Kentucky Republican Party Those Republicans, they sure have a lot of damn gall.http://www.huffingtonpost.com/howie-klein/pat-boone-plays-the-gop-g_b_71284.html
USMC the Almighty
11-05-2007, 08:18 PM
You're ridiculous Popeye. Those handful of Republicans are clearly the outliers of the Republican party, hence why they are newsworthy.
I'm not exactly sure what Pat Boone has to do with Larry Craig.
You're ridiculous Popeye. Those handful of Republicans are clearly the outliers of the Republican party, hence why they are newsworthy.
I'm not exactly sure what Pat Boone has to do with Larry Craig.
Come on Jarhead...havent you heard the one about Pat Boone, Larry Craig and Rudy?
Man and I thought I lived in the middle of nowhere.
USMC the Almighty
11-06-2007, 04:25 AM
Come on Jarhead...havent you heard the one about Pat Boone, Larry Craig and Rudy?
Man and I thought I lived in the middle of nowhere.
Hahaha, this so so absurd. One gay sex incident in the middle of Idaho or somewhere and now a candidate for Kentucky's governor is a hypocrit.
Popeye
11-06-2007, 06:31 AM
Hahaha, this so so absurd. One gay sex incident in the middle of Idaho or somewhere and now a candidate for Kentucky's governor is a hypocrit.
Not just "one gay sex incident in the middle of Idaho". First off, Larry Craig was in a bathroom stall in Minnesota. Secondly, there's these other upstanding Republicans, Mark Foley, Bob Allen, Richard Curtis, Joey DiFatta, Ed Schrock, and more. Enjoy reading them all. This is a different list from the one I posted in the past. http://www.dkosopedia.com/wiki/Republican_Sex_Scandals
Pat Boone and the Republican party in Kentucky are hypocrites for playing the homophobia card, when it appears a large percentage of their party's office holders are hiding in the closet.
USMC the Almighty
11-06-2007, 06:58 AM
Pat Boone and the Republican party in Kentucky are hypocrites for playing the homophobia card, when it appears a large percentage of their party's office holders are hiding in the closet.
You just don't get it, do you? I realize you have to be partisan and all, but some people are able to look beyond party politics. So even if these handful of cases were symptomatic of a larger Republican trend, it's not extraordinary that Pat Boone would be opposed to this.
Provide one piece of evidence that proves Pat Boone is being hypocritical in opposing special rights for gays.
Popeye
11-06-2007, 07:38 AM
You just don't get it, do you? I realize you have to be partisan and all, but some people are able to look beyond party politics. So even if these handful of cases were symptomatic of a larger Republican trend, it's not extraordinary that Pat Boone would be opposed to this.
Not Pat Boone personally, he's just the messenger. The Republican party is being hypocritical. Here is a interesting picture of Boone, and since he's a Republican, you never know.http://downwithtyranny.blogspot.com/2007/11/oh-and-about-pat-boones-homophobic.html
Popeye
11-06-2007, 08:17 AM
An exception to the rule. BREAKING… Republican legislator outed as heterosexual
Hey… it turns out not all “extreme right-wing” Republican state legislators are closeted homosexuals. Who knew?
State Rep. Jim Dunn will be stripped of his committee assignments and denied travel reimbursement after the 17th District lawmaker made what even Dunn acknowledged was an “inappropriate” remark to a woman at a legislative function in the Tri-Cities last month.
“We want to have zero tolerance for our members for inappropriate comments,” said House Republican leader Richard DeBolt. “We asked (Dunn) to go get sensitivity training. Until he does that, he won’t be serving on any committees.”
Dunn told Postman that he can’t remember exactly what he said to the “young lady”…
He was buying her a drink and said something like, in his words, “I’m buying you this so I can take you home, something like that.”
Yeah. Something like that. Though judging from Dunn’s photo, I’m guessing he’d have to buy an awful lot of drinks before he’d ever have a chance of a young lady coming home with him. Maybe a fifth of Everclear and roofie. And a paper sack over his head.
Dunn says he didn’t really mean it, which is of course what we all tell ourselves after we strike out, but that’s not really the point. Rep. Sharon Tomiko Santos (D-37), who was at the table, says the remark was far more explicit and inappropriate than Dunn recollects, and describes a Republican sitting next to her as “absolutely mortified.”
How explicit? Well, Dunn claims that DeBolt actually asked him to resign, potentially putting this rare, Republican, swing-district seat into Democratic hands. It beggars the imagination.http://www.komotv.com/news/11042746.htmlhttp://www.horsesass.org/?p=3731
How's this for family values?
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/15/romneysfamilyga6.jpg
Vote the candidate, not the party.
OK, technical question: The image above was a 4 by 6 jpeg.
Why did it come out so big on the forum? Does anyone know?
9sublime
11-06-2007, 09:19 AM
Haha. I wasn't made a mod on technical grounds.
Hahaha, this so so absurd. One gay sex incident in the middle of Idaho or somewhere and now a candidate for Kentucky's governor is a hypocrit.
Where have I been? I thought it was Pat Boone the singer. You mean the same guy, or one with the same name is running for KY Gov? I wonder what the heck Daniel Boone is doing these days?
USMC the Almighty
11-06-2007, 09:31 AM
Not Pat Boone personally, he's just the messenger. The Republican party is being hypocritical. Here is a interesting picture of Boone, and since he's a Republican, you never know.http://downwithtyranny.blogspot.com/2007/11/oh-and-about-pat-boones-homophobic.html
Popeye, you represent exactly what liberals today have become. There are many, such as vyo and coyote and 9sublime and bunz among others, who are thoughtful and considerate in their politics. But far too many are like you, without any ideas -- just partisan politics as usual.
TruthAboveAll
11-06-2007, 10:53 AM
... and mindlessly venomous, I'd like to add.
Can we at least agree that both big parties are totally obessed with each other rather than the task at had which is running whatever respective government they were elected to?
Am I the only one that sees huge flaws in the party system we have? I am not saying third party anything. I am thinking no parties. There is no provisions for parties in the constitution. Parties have hijacked the entire government and wield far far far to much control.
When it comes to elections, we have the choice for dumb or dumber.
Its like having to choose between a fat lip or a black eye.
9sublime
11-06-2007, 12:11 PM
Panarchy.
Panarchy.
Im not sold yet. Reply to that post and answer some questions and I might be with ya.
9sublime
11-06-2007, 12:24 PM
Haha I don't think panarchy is feasable to be honest, but who knows, it should be tested.
I like the idea of being able to choose your party, but I don't see how you could have facism, anarchy, democracy an and communism actively running side by side without severe conflict of interest, or at least an absoloute ton of paper work.
Haha I don't think panarchy is feasable to be honest, but who knows, it should be tested.
I like the idea of being able to choose your party, but I don't see how you could have facism, anarchy, democracy an and communism actively running side by side without severe conflict of interest, or at least an absoloute ton of paper work.
I think it is worthy of further discussion. Reply and we will resume there.
9sublime
11-06-2007, 02:24 PM
You mean resume about panarchy, or whatever you were talking about before?
Popeye
11-06-2007, 03:03 PM
Popeye, you represent exactly what liberals today have become. There are many, such as vyo and coyote and 9sublime and bunz among others, who are thoughtful and considerate in their politics. But far too many are like you, without any ideas -- just partisan politics as usual. Exposing hypocrisy is neither inconsiderate or venomous, it may be partisan, but in all the cases I've presented it's also the truth. Nevertheless, I've decided to show my "thoughtful and considerate" side by posting a link that has a picture of an, as of yet, unidentified Republican.http://www.ronfez.net/
Popeye
11-06-2007, 04:20 PM
Pat Boone's favorite, Kentucky Republican incumbent Governor Fletcher, is getting desperate, as he is well down in the polls. What a stunt, hopefully he'll lose tonight.Ten Commandments posted in Capitol on eve of election
By Joe Biesk
Associated Press
FRANKFORT - Republican Gov. Ernie Fletcher ordered the Ten Commandments displayed in the state Capitol on Monday, hitting on one of his re-election campaign themes the day before Kentucky's general election.
The Ten Commandments, along with other historical documents mounted on gold-colored easels, went on display in the Rotunda following a ruling from a federal judge earlier Monday. U.S. District Judge Joseph M. Hood ruled that a previous injunction that prohibited a different monument displaying the Biblical directives did not apply.
Kentucky's race for governor culminates today, when voters decide whether Fletcher or Democrat Steve Beshear will guide Kentucky over the next four years. Recent media polls have shown Fletcher trailing Beshear by 15 to 23 percentage points.
Throughout the campaign, Fletcher and other Republicans have criticized Beshear for an opinion he wrote as Kentucky attorney general in 1981 - following a U.S. Supreme Court ruling - that advised public schools to remove the Ten Commandments from classroom walls.
Monday's executive order from Fletcher, an ordained Baptist minister, directed the Ten Commandments be displayed as part of a "Foundations of American Law and Government Display" that includes the Magna Carta, Mayflower Compact and the Declaration of Independence.
Larry Sabato, director of the Center for Politics at the University of Virginia, said Fletcher was playing to his political base of social conservatives.
"Fletcher's only remaining hope is that somehow evangelicals come out in record numbers and that other people don't," Sabato said. "This is an attempt to pop off his base."
A politically weakened Fletcher has struggled to sway attention away from a legal scandal that has plagued him through his re-election campaign. The first GOP Republican governor in more than 30 years in this predominantly Democratic state, Fletcher was indicted last year on charges that he rewarded politically connected Republicans with government jobs at the expense of Democrats.
At least 14 people were indicted, including the governor himself, who was charged with scheming to violate state hiring laws. Fletcher issued pardons to everyone but himself.
Prosecutors dropped the misdemeanor charges against Fletcher in a deal, in which he acknowledged that the evidence "strongly indicates wrongdoing" by his administration and that the actions "were inappropriate."
The governor has since maintained that the investigation and resulting indictments were politically motivated by Democrats to lessen his chances of being re-elected.
Campaigning in Louisville, Fletcher said Monday said the timing of Ten Commandments order wasn't related to the election. Still, he used the issue to offer a distinction between himself and his opponent.
"The judge could have waited until after the election to have given us that ruling," Fletcher said. "But I told folks that we'd put it up as soon as we could."
Beshear spokeswoman Vicki Glass said the move showed Fletcher's campaign was panicking.
"He is pulling out all of the stops in an attempt to distract voters from his four years of failed leadership and from the real issues of bringing honesty and integrity back to the people of Kentucky," Glass said. "If Ernie Fletcher had been living by the Ten Commandments these last four years, he wouldn't be in the mess he's in today."http://news.kypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071106/NEWS02/711060355/1014
Popeye
11-06-2007, 05:32 PM
Hey Bunz, what do you think of the way Rush Limbaugh attacked the 18 year old Alaskan girl, today on his show? Limbaugh, among other things, said that her testimony earlier in the day in front of a U.S. House committee on global warming made him "really want to puke. I just want to throw up." I guess, he's coming up in the world, it's better than the 12 year old he attacked over the SCHIP bill.http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/rural/story/9433479p-9345633c.htmlhttp://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/11/05/limbaugh-attacks-eighteen-year-old/
TruthAboveAll
11-06-2007, 08:09 PM
Hey Bunz, what do you think of the way Rush Limbaugh attacked the 18 year old Alaskan girl, today on his show? Limbaugh, among other things, said that her testimony earlier in the day in front of a U.S. House committee on global warming made him "really want to puke. I just want to throw up."
Okay. I just love how the left-wing websites get to just throw trash around and it ends up with legs of it's own, takes on it's own life. That is NOT what Rush Limbaugh said. I was listening at the time, and I KNEW it would be like this.
Rush's vomit-related comments were regarding the abuse of Liberals and the Global-Warming-for-Political-Gain crowd. Not the young woman.
It's amazing. When it suits, an 18-year-old is described as an adult, capable of standing up for his or her self, making their own decisions, etc. In situations like this, she's an "18 year old ... girl".
I guess, he's coming up in the world, it's better than the 12 year old he attacked over the SCHIP bill.
Again, Rush never attacked any 12-year-old. The obscene expansion of SCHIP supporters, yes. The extreme selection of a case where SCHIP actually plays a minor role, yes. The victimizing of the unscrupulous for their own political gain, yes. But not the kid.
If you'd listen once in awhile instead of relying on left-wing nuts to tell you what to think, you'd have a clue.
http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/rural/story/9433479p-9345633c.htmlhttp://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/11/05/limbaugh-attacks-eighteen-year-old/
ADN link - not helpful for those who don't care to "register" with yet another spam e-mail source.
Crooks and liars? Ah, yeah, right. What a fabulously legitimate source of information. It's apparent from the indescribably intelligent replies their piece creates.
Popeye
11-06-2007, 08:34 PM
Okay. I just love how the left-wing websites get to just throw trash around and it ends up with legs of it's own, takes on it's own life. That is NOT what Rush Limbaugh said. I was listening at the time, and I KNEW it would be like this. If you "KNEW it would be like this", red flags must have gone up the minute you heard his comments. Could it be, that possibly, even in your Rush clouded biased mind, the word inappropriate, began to surface?
Again, Rush never attacked any 12-year-old. The obscene expansion of SCHIP supporters, yes. The extreme selection of a case where SCHIP actually plays a minor role, yes. The victimizing of the unscrupulous for their own political gain, yes. But not the kid. If he can attack SCHIP, on it's own merits or lack of same, why not leave the 12 year old out of it? Was mocking the 12 year olds voice necessary as well?
Crooks and liars? Ah, yeah, right. What a fabulously legitimate source of information. It's apparent from the indescribably intelligent replies their piece creates. I never suggested Crooks and Liars is unbiased. Are you suggesting Limbaugh is? Your passionate defense of him suggests one thing, Dittohead. Btw, that adn link is the Anchorage Daily, there is no need to register to view the link. Either you are overly paranoid or you know very little about securing your own computer.
Hey Bunz, what do you think of the way Rush Limbaugh attacked the 18 year old Alaskan girl, today on his show? Limbaugh, among other things, said that her testimony earlier in the day in front of a U.S. House committee on global warming made him "really want to puke. I just want to throw up." I guess, he's coming up in the world, it's better than the 12 year old he attacked over the SCHIP bill.http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/rural/story/9433479p-9345633c.htmlhttp://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/11/05/limbaugh-attacks-eighteen-year-old/
Total idiotic cheapshot by Rush. You know whats funny? Nobody in her village ever even heard of Rush including the girl! We dont get him out here, so of course I didnt hear it, nor would I listen to him regardless.
I actually know of this girl. She is quite active politically. Where she has come from. The erosion from late fall storms has eroded massive amounts of shore. Sea ice barely makes it back to the shore, if at all. No time in recorded memory has this ever happened. Anyways, Rush just probably lost the 2 stations here that broadcast him.
ADN link - not helpful for those who don't care to "register" with yet another spam e-mail source.
The ADN is the Anchorage Daily News. By far the largest read paper in the state.
[QUOTE] CLIMATE CHANGE: Radio host criticized for saying Yup'ik youth was exploited.
By ERIKA BOLSTAD< /br>ebolstad@adn.com
Published: November 6, 2007
Last Modified: November 6, 2007 at 03:04 PM
WASHINGTON -- Charlee Lockwood has never heard of Rush Limbaugh or listened to his radio program, and perhaps it's just as well.
Monday, the talk radio king told listeners that Democrats were exploiting the 18-year-old Yup'ik Eskimo, and that her emotional testimony earlier in the day in front of a U.S. House committee on global warming made him "really want to puke. I just want to throw up."
"It's the Democrats exploiting a young child, ladies and gentlemen, for the advancement of a political issue that will grow the size of government and increase their control over everyone," Limbaugh told listeners of the 600 stations nationwide that carry his show.
Lockwood didn't let Limbaugh's comments faze her. Her upbringing in the community of St. Michael included learning "about respect and treating people the way you want to be treated," Lockwood said, during a brief interview just before she got on a plane to return to her village on Alaska's west coast.
And she had plenty of people willing to defend her.
"For Rush Limbaugh to make fun of young people coming in and trying to be a part of the political process, it really shows a disdain for political discourse and for the role of young people in that political discourse," said Eben Burnham-Snyder, a spokesman for the chairman of the committee, U.S. Rep. Ed Markey, D-Mass.
Limbaugh's attack on the teenager was "outrageous and grotesque," said Deborah Williams, an Anchorage environmentalist who accompanied Lockwood on the teen's first trip to the nation's capital in 2005.
It's one thing to take aim at a public figure, Williams said, but it's quite another to attack someone young and eager to participate in the democratic process.
"I know Charlee really quite well and she is her own person," Williams said. "She got involved in this because she feels a big moral commitment to protect her community. She is passionate about this issue, and she has so much invested in this issue."
Lockwood was among 5,000 teens and young adults who descended on Washington Monday in what may have been the biggest lobbying day ever on energy and climate issues. Ten other young people from Alaska attended the event, through Alaska Youth for Environmental Action.
Organizers described the Washington gathering, known as Power Shift 2007, as "the first national youth summit to solve the climate crisis."
Lockwood, who hopes to study to be a health aide in rural Alaska, has already become something of a veteran environmental activist. She traveled to Washington, D.C., two years ago to deliver 5,000 signatures from fellow Alaska high school students who sought to draw attention to the effects of global warming in the state.
Monday, she and other students met with a staffer in U.S. Rep. Don Young's office and with both of Alaska's senators, Republicans Lisa Murkowski and Ted Stevens.
Stevens hadn't listened to the Limbaugh program Monday afternoon, although an aide burned a CD for him to listen to later at home. The senator had no comment on the program, said Aaron Saunders, a spokesman for Stevens.
The young people from Alaska spent about an hour Monday engaged in a "lively and frank conservation about climate change and global warming" with Stevens, Saunders said.
The senator and the students weren't in total agreement, Saunders said. Stevens has repeatedly questioned the causes of global warming but acknowledges that climate change has had a disastrous effect on the state's remote villages.
Last month, Stevens accompanied the chairwoman of the Disaster Recovery subcommittee, Sen. Mary Landrieu, D-La., to Shishmaref to survey the damage from coastal erosion.
On Monday, Lockwood offered an eloquent description of the effects of global warming on her own village of St. Michael.
Moose once walked by the village; now, they've migrated farther north and are rarely seen. There are fewer fish each year at the family's summer fish camp, Lockwood said, and their favorite berry-picking spots aren't producing as much fruit anymore.
"Our traditional ways of life will die like the food we grew up eating, our hunters will have to travel farther to keep food in their homes," she warned in testimony submitted to the committee.
"Our culture will die because everyone will have to move someplace and there will be no one to teach them to."
[QUOTE]
T
WASHINGTON -- Charlee Lockwood has never heard of Rush Limbaugh or listened to his radio program, and perhaps it's just as well.
How terrible. She has never heard Rush bash her for her observation of global warming, never heard him make fun of a preteen who spoke out in favor of health care, never heard him call soldiers who disagree with him "phony", and never heard him call people who "believe in evolution" clowns. Gee, how can her education be complete without hearing the nonsense that spews from that half of his brain that isn't tied behind his back?
Rush Limbaugh is a joke. How sad that so many take him seriously.
Popeye
11-11-2007, 01:38 PM
C'mon Bunz, what's with these Alaskan Republican politicians? Alaskan lawmaker promoted earmarks, raked in cash.
During Rep. Don Young’s (R-AK) six years chairman of the Transportation and Infrastructure Committee, the number of earmarks to the annual highway spending bills have more than tripled. A look at how Young has profited in return:
Of the $6.5 million in contributions that Young collected — $5.5 million for his campaign and $1 million for his leadership political action committee (PAC) — about 85 percent came from people who didn’t live in Alaska and couldn’t vote for him.
– How many donors got earmarks is hard to determine. But an analysis of Young’s campaign finance reports show that beneficiaries of just seven earmarks carrying a total price of $259 million — none for a project in Alaska — gave the veteran congressman at least $575,000.
– As hundreds of lobbyists sought to influence the massive highway-spending bill from 2003 to 2005, Young accepted at least 20 trips aboard private aircraft provided by corporations currying favor with the powerful congressman. He also stayed at such luxury hotels and resorts.http://www.mcclatchydc.com/226/story/21221.html
How terrible. She has never heard Rush bash her for her observation of global warming, never heard him make fun of a preteen who spoke out in favor of health care, never heard him call soldiers who disagree with him "phony", and never heard him call people who "believe in evolution" clowns. Gee, how can her education be complete without hearing the nonsense that spews from that half of his brain that isn't tied behind his back?
Rush Limbaugh is a joke. How sad that so many take him seriously.
I hope Rush realizes the joke is on him. I am pretty sure he gets broadcast in Anchorage. Outside of there, nobody gets him. It wouldnt surprise me a bit, if whatever local advertisers there are pull thier money.
C'mon Bunz, what's with these Alaskan Republican politicians?http://www.mcclatchydc.com/226/story/21221.html
I read it in the Anchorage daily news.
http://www.adn.com/news/politics/fbi/young/story/9447181p-9358502c.html
Young has become a black eye for this state. So has Sen. Stevens. Right now there is a big divide in the AK GOP. I dont think Young will win
re-election, he may not win his own primary at the rate he is going. That being said, he has a huge campaign warchest. Apparently, his largest expenditure from that fund is paying legal council. Right now he is under a pretty tight investigation, among other things. Several well known democrats have declared already.
Popeye
11-14-2007, 01:56 PM
What a jerk this guy is. Where's the sport in this? Well, at least he didn't shoot any humans, not that we know about anyway.Dick Cheney's Sadistic Passion for Shooting Tame Animals
By Martha Rosenberg, AlterNet. Posted November 14, 2007.
Dick Cheney just spent a day shooting up pen-raised birds. Some hunters liken the sport -- killing tame animals that offer no resistance -- to having sex with a blow-up doll.
While most people are lamenting the violence in Pakistan, Burma, Afghanistan and Iraq, apparently it's not enough bloodshed for Vice President Dick Cheney.
Last month in a caravan of 15 sport utility vehicles and an ambulance -- no jokes, please -- Cheney made his way to Clove Valley Rod & Gun Club, about 70 miles north of New York City, near Poughkeepsie, for a day of controlled bloodletting.
Cheney landed at Stewart Air Force Base and took off the following day for the upscale gun club at a cost of $32,000 for local law enforcement officials who guarded his hotel, protected his motorcade and diverted school buses.
Unlike Cheney's 2003 trip to Rolling Rock Club in Ligonier Township, Pa., in which he killed 70 pheasants and an undisclosed number of ducks (his hunting party killed 417 pheasants), staff at the Clove Valley Rod & Gun Club remained tight-lipped about the take.
An employee who answered the phone would not disclose which species was being shot -- ads say pheasants, ducks and Hungarian partridges -- and kept repeating "I don't know anything about it" before hanging up. Like Cheney's last visit to Clove Valley in 2001, the 4,000-acre club, which costs $150,000 a year to join, was a fortress with Blackwater-style snipers "protecting" the vice president's right to shoot tame birds.
But a New York Daily News photographer did snap a picture of a small Confederate flag hanging inside a garage on the hunt club property, which prompted civil rights leader Rev. Al Sharpton to demand that Cheney "leave immediately, denounce the club and apologize for going to a club that represents lynching, hate and murder to black people."
Cheney spokeswoman Megan Mitchell said neither Cheney nor anyone on his staff saw such a flag at the hunt club. (Maybe the flag was on the women's side of Clove Valley; only men are allowed in the clubhouse.)
Of course the nation is still amused about Cheney's 2006 hunting mishap in which he shot 78-year-old attorney Harry Whittington in the face in Texas instead of a quail -- and everyone from Letterman to President Bush jokes about it.
But canned hunting isn't funny.
Birds raised for canned hunts at gun clubs and in state "recreational" areas are grown in packed pens -- think factory farmed chickens -- and fitted with goggles so they won't peck each other to death from the crowding.
When released for put and take hunters like Cheney, pen raised birds can barely walk or fly -- or see, thanks to the goggles. They don't know how to forage or hide in the wild and sometimes have to be kicked to "fly" enough to be shot.
Some hunters say shooting the pellet-ready tame animals, which offer no resistance, is like having sex with a blow-up doll.
But others say hunting itself is like sex with a blow up doll and that the 10 percent decline in hunters seen in the United States since the late '90s -- from 14 million to about 12.5 million -- coincides exactly with the debut of impotence drugs like Viagra.
Still for the veep to pursue his addiction to the "programmed massacre of scores of tame, pen-raised birds" despite all the "negative publicity it has generated for him" suggests a deep psychological disorder, writes Gerald Schiller in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette.
Especially since criminologists have long recognized that premeditated, sadistic treatment of animals is a strong predictor of criminal and homicidal violence.
Sociopaths Jeffrey Dahmer and Richard Speck were both big on animal cruelty. And they weren't running foreign policy.http://www.alternet.org/story/67663/
I am no fan of Dick Cheney. But this article is a joke, I hope the author doesnt consider themselves a reporter or journalist. This is nothing but a skewed look at an activity that the author obviously has little idea about how it works, as for the portrayal of Cheney...I dont even know what to say.
Ill pick away at it a bit.
While most people are lamenting the violence in Pakistan, Burma, Afghanistan and Iraq, apparently it's not enough bloodshed for Vice President Dick Cheney.
What is the point of this sentence? To say that Cheney shouldnt hunt because of ongoing wars is useless.
Last month in a caravan of 15 sport utility vehicles and an ambulance -- no jokes, please -- Cheney made his way to Clove Valley Rod & Gun Club, about 70 miles north of New York City, near Poughkeepsie, for a day of controlled bloodletting.
Controlled bloodletting? Give me a break. That is far from the truth.
Cheney landed at Stewart Air Force Base and took off the following day for the upscale gun club at a cost of $32,000 for local law enforcement officials who guarded his hotel, protected his motorcade and diverted school buses.
Why even mention the school buses? It doesnt matter who the VPOTUS is, or what they are doing. It is universally known that local law enforcement will assist with motorcade security etc. The school buses mention is nothing but sensationalism and has little place in journalism.
Unlike Cheney's 2003 trip to Rolling Rock Club in Ligonier Township, Pa., in which he killed 70 pheasants and an undisclosed number of ducks (his hunting party killed 417 pheasants), staff at the Clove Valley Rod & Gun Club remained tight-lipped about the take.
So he shot 70 pheasants...is that breaking the law? I doubt it. I can understand his handlers not mentioning it. It is generally of little consequence. These gun clubs do a very good job of managing thier lands and the animals on it. There are usually rules set by the club, and laws set by the government to regulate them.
the 4,000-acre club, which costs $150,000 a year to join, was a fortress with Blackwater-style snipers "protecting" the vice president's right to shoot tame birds.
I dont doubt that it is a very high end club. But to suggest Blackwater style snipers is another example of sensationalism. The US Secret Service is the agency involved in this. If the author didnt know that, they have no business writing what they did.
Without any knowledge of this club, I am aware of thier general operations. To suggest these are tame birds is far from the truth. The idea is generally to shoot them whilst flying, after using dogs or some other method to locate them on the ground before being flushed and shot at.
But a New York Daily News photographer did snap a picture of a small Confederate flag hanging inside a garage on the hunt club property, which prompted civil rights leader Rev. Al Sharpton to demand that Cheney "leave immediately, denounce the club and apologize for going to a club that represents lynching, hate and murder to black people."
A small confederate flag in a garage on a private club? This is a total non-issue only raised for political gain. Sharpton needs to learn when to choose his battles. This one is pointless.
Birds raised for canned hunts at gun clubs and in state "recreational" areas are grown in packed pens -- think factory farmed chickens -- and fitted with goggles so they won't peck each other to death from the crowding.
When released for put and take hunters like Cheney, pen raised birds can barely walk or fly -- or see, thanks to the goggles. They don't know how to forage or hide in the wild and sometimes have to be kicked to "fly" enough to be shot.
Some hunters say shooting the pellet-ready tame animals, which offer no resistance, is like having sex with a blow-up doll.
Totally overhyped statements and not based on facts.
There have been plenty of times when I have needed to kick at a wild bird to cause it to fly. The pen raised comments are a joke. They are making a rather unfair comparision from pen raised birds that are released to be hunted to the industrial poultry farms. Entirely different things.
But others say hunting itself is like sex with a blow up doll and that the 10 percent decline in hunters seen in the United States since the late '90s -- from 14 million to about 12.5 million -- coincides exactly with the debut of impotence drugs like Viagra.
This is a disgraceful comment. Not based at all in fact. Totally irresponsible.
Still for the veep to pursue his addiction to the "programmed massacre of scores of tame, pen-raised birds" despite all the "negative publicity it has generated for him" suggests a deep psychological disorder, writes Gerald Schiller in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette.
Especially since criminologists have long recognized that premeditated, sadistic treatment of animals is a strong predictor of criminal and homicidal violence.
Sociopaths Jeffrey Dahmer and Richard Speck were both big on animal cruelty. And they weren't running foreign policy.
Yeah, compare Cheney to Dahmer and Speck. That lost any remaining credibility this author would have with me.
What a jerk this guy is. Where's the sport in this? Well, at least he didn't shoot any humans, not that we know about anyway.http://www.alternet.org/story/67663/
Gads, what a sportsman! I wonder what Teddy Roosevelt would have thought of Cheney's way of hunting?
Popeye
11-14-2007, 08:03 PM
I am no fan of Dick Cheney. But this article is a joke, I hope the author doesnt consider themselves a reporter or journalist. This is nothing but a skewed look at an activity that the author obviously has little idea about how it works, as for the portrayal of Cheney...I dont even know what to say.
Ill pick away at it a bit.
What is the point of this sentence? To say that Cheney shouldnt hunt because of ongoing wars is useless.
Controlled bloodletting? Give me a break. That is far from the truth.
Why even mention the school buses? It doesnt matter who the VPOTUS is, or what they are doing. It is universally known that local law enforcement will assist with motorcade security etc. The school buses mention is nothing but sensationalism and has little place in journalism.
So he shot 70 pheasants...is that breaking the law? I doubt it. I can understand his handlers not mentioning it. It is generally of little consequence. These gun clubs do a very good job of managing thier lands and the animals on it. There are usually rules set by the club, and laws set by the government to regulate them.
I dont doubt that it is a very high end club. But to suggest Blackwater style snipers is another example of sensationalism. The US Secret Service is the agency involved in this. If the author didnt know that, they have no business writing what they did.
Without any knowledge of this club, I am aware of thier general operations. To suggest these are tame birds is far from the truth. The idea is generally to shoot them whilst flying, after using dogs or some other method to locate them on the ground before being flushed and shot at.
A small confederate flag in a garage on a private club? This is a total non-issue only raised for political gain. Sharpton needs to learn when to choose his battles. This one is pointless.
Totally overhyped statements and not based on facts.
There have been plenty of times when I have needed to kick at a wild bird to cause it to fly. The pen raised comments are a joke. They are making a rather unfair comparision from pen raised birds that are released to be hunted to the industrial poultry farms. Entirely different things.
Of course it has some sensationlism, and it probably wouldn't even be news, but for a similar "hunting trip" in 2003. In that "hunt" Cheney and his mates killed 417 pheasants and mallards, not in the wild, but in an enclosed area. I live near a state farm that raises birds to be released into the wild for hunting season, that's fine. However, I have no respect for someone who kills animals, in an enclosed area, just for the hell of it. Here's a statement from The Humane Society regarding Cheney's hunt of 2003:
Humane Society Statement
POSTED: 2:51 p.m. EST December 9, 2003
Monday's hunting trip to Pennsylvania by Vice President Dick Cheney in which he reportedly shot more than 70 stocked pheasants and an unknown number of mallard ducks at an exclusive private club places a spotlight on an increasingly popular and deplorable form of hunting, in which birds are pen-reared and released to be shot in large numbers by patrons. The ethics of these hunts are called into question by rank-and-file sportsmen, who hunt animals in their native habitat and do not shoot confined or pen-raised animals that cannot escape.
The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette reported today that 500 farm-raised pheasants were released yesterday morning at the Rolling Rock Club in Ligonier Township for the benefit of Cheney's 10-person hunting party. The group killed at least 417 of the birds, illustrating the unsporting nature of canned hunts. The party also shot an unknown number of captive mallards in the afternoon.
"This wasn't a hunting ground. It was an open-air abattoir, and the vice president should be ashamed to have patronized this operation and then slaughtered so many animals," states Wayne Pacelle, a senior vice president of The Humane Society of the United States. "If the Vice President and his friends wanted to sharpen their shooting skills, they could have shot skeet or clay, not resorted to the slaughter of more than 400 creatures planted right in front of them as animated targets."
The Humane Society of the United States deplores the shooting of captive birds and animals where traditional "fair chase" hunting ethics are discarded and kills are guaranteed. We are campaigning to outlaw canned hunts through federal and state legislation.
Popeye
11-30-2007, 12:42 PM
Well, some more Republican family values to report. It appears rotten Rudy Giuliani was using taxpayer money to help him visit his mistress. First off, adultery isn't a family value. Second, he also tried to jigger the books to hide the money he was spending on his security for the adultery. He did that by charging different city agencies for the security. Giuliani is now telling the media that he charged obscure agencies for his security detail while visiting his mistress because it was easier to bill it that way. Sure Rudy.
Giuliani billed obscure agencies for trips
By: Ben Smith
Nov 28, 2007 02:47 PM EST
Updated: November 30, 2007 11:33 AM EST
As New York mayor, Rudy Giuliani billed obscure city agencies for tens of thousands of dollars in security expenses amassed during the time when he was beginning an extramarital relationship with future wife Judith Nathan in the Hamptons, according to previously undisclosed government records.
The documents, obtained by Politico under New York’s Freedom of Information Law, show that the mayoral costs had nothing to do with the functions of the little-known city offices that defrayed his tabs, including agencies responsible for regulating loft apartments, aiding the disabled and providing lawyers for indigent defendants.
At the time, the mayor’s office refused to explain the accounting to city auditors, citing “security.”
The Hamptons visits resulted in hotel, gas and other costs for Giuliani’s New York Police Department security detail.
Giuliani’s relationship with Nathan is old news now, and Giuliani regularly asks voters on the campaign trail to forgive his "mistakes."
It’s also impossible to know whether the purpose of all the Hamptons trips was to see Nathan. A Giuliani spokeswoman declined to discuss any aspect of this story, which was explained in detail to her earlier this week.
Asked about this article after it was published on Wednesday, Giuliani said: "It's not true."
He said he had 24-hour security during his eight years as mayor because of "threats," adding: " I had nothing to do with the handling of their records, and they were handled, as far as I know, perfectly appropriately."
The practice of transferring the travel expenses of Giuliani's security detail to the accounts of obscure mayoral offices has never been brought to light, despite behind-the-scenes criticism from the city comptroller weeks after Giuliani left office.
The expenses first surfaced as Giuliani's two terms as mayor of New York drew to a close in 2001, when a city auditor stumbled across something unusual: $34,000 worth of travel expenses buried in the accounts of the New York City Loft Board.
When the city's fiscal monitor asked for an explanation, Giuliani's aides refused, citing "security," said Jeff Simmons, a spokesman for the city comptroller.
But American Express bills and travel documents obtained by Politico suggest another reason City Hall may have considered the documents sensitive: They detail three summers of visits to Southampton, the Long Island town where Nathan had an apartment.
Auditors "were unable to verify that these expenses were for legitimate or necessary purposes," City Comptroller William Thompson wrote of the expenses from fiscal year 2000, which covers parts of 1999 and 2000.
The letter, whose existence has not been previously reported, was also obtained under the Freedom of Information Law.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1107/7073.html
Well, some more Republican family values to report. It appears rotten Rudy Giuliani was using taxpayer money to help him visit his mistress. First off, adultery isn't a family value. Second, he also tried to jigger the books to hide the money he was spending on his security for the adultery. He did that by charging different city agencies for the security. Giuliani is now telling the media that he charged obscure agencies for his security detail while visiting his mistress because it was easier to bill it that way. Sure Rudy.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1107/7073.html
The simple solution to that problem is to nominate Romney.
USMC the Almighty
11-30-2007, 03:50 PM
Popeye, what's with your obsession with Dick Cheney's hunting trips? Don't you have something better to get worked up over such as Christmas decorations at the post office?
Popeye
11-30-2007, 04:43 PM
Popeye, what's with your obsession with Dick Cheney's hunting trips? Don't you have something better to get worked up over such as Christmas decorations at the post office?
You call that, a "hunting trip"? It's shooting fish in a barrel, and is symbolic of the kind of person Cheney is.
Anyway here's some more lies by Republican rotten Rudy Giuliani.
Citing Statistics, Giuliani Misses Time and Again
By MICHAEL COOPER
Published: November 30, 2007
In almost every appearance as he campaigns for the Republican presidential nomination, Rudolph W. Giuliani cites a fusillade of statistics and facts to make his arguments about his successes in running New York City and the merits of his views.
Discussing his crime-fighting success as mayor, Mr. Giuliani told a television interviewer that New York was “the only city in America that has reduced crime every single year since 1994.” In New Hampshire this week, he told a public forum that when he became mayor in 1994, New York “had been averaging like 1,800, 1,900 murders for almost 30 years.” When a recent Republican debate turned to the question of fiscal responsibility, he boasted that “under me, spending went down by 7 percent.”
All of these statements are incomplete, exaggerated or just plain wrong. And while, to be sure, all candidates use misleading statistics from time to time, Mr. Giuliani has made statistics a central part of his candidacy as he campaigns on his record.
For instance, another major American city claims to have reduced crime every year since 1994: Chicago. New York averaged 1,514 murders a year during the three decades before Mr. Giuliani took office; it did not record more than 1,800 homicides until 1980. And Mr. Giuliani’s own memoir states that spending grew an average of 3.7 percent for most of his tenure; an aide said Mr. Giuliani had meant to say that he had proposed a 7 percent reduction in per capita spending during his time as mayor.
Facts and figures are often the striking centerpieces of Mr. Giuliani’s arguments. He has always had a penchant for statistics — his anticrime strategy as mayor was built around a system known as Compstat that closely tracked crimes to focus law enforcement efforts. On the campaign trail he often wields data, without notes, with prosecutorial zeal to hammer home his points.
But in recent days, both Mr. Giuliani’s Republican rival Mitt Romney and Democrats have accused him of a pattern of misleading figures and have begun to use the issue to try to undercut his credibility.
An examination of many of his statements by The New York Times, other news organizations and independent groups have turned up a variety of misstatements, virtually all of which cast Mr. Giuliani or his arguments in a better light. “He’s given us a lot of work up until now,” said Brooks Jackson, the director of Annenberg Political Fact Check, which is part of Factcheck.org, a project of the Annenberg Public Policy Center of the University of Pennsylvania that has corrected statements by candidates in both parties.
Last weekend, speaking about his belief in supply-side economics, Mr. Giuliani said, “I lowered, argued for lowering, and got the hotel occupancy tax lowered by 33 percent. And I was collecting $200 million more from the lower tax than the city had been collecting from before I was mayor from the higher tax.”
In fact, the increase in revenues from the hotel occupancy tax was just over a quarter of what Mr. Giuliani asserted — the city’s hotel tax revenues grew by roughly $58 million during his term, according to the city’s Independent Budget Office — and a booming economy, as well as the reduction in crime Mr. Giuliani helped produce, probably played a part.
Factcheck.org has reported that the Giuliani campaign exaggerated when it boasted on its Web site that “Mayor Giuliani increased the police force from 28,000 to 40,000,” noting that most of that increase came from his merger of the Transit and Housing Police Departments with the New York Police Department, a transfer of more than 7,000 existing officers to the department.Lying, er, exaggerating must be another Republican family value.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/30/us/politics/30truth.html
You call that, a "hunting trip"? It's shooting fish in a barrel, and is symbolic of the kind of person Cheney is.
Anyway here's some more lies by Republican rotten Rudy Giuliani.
Lying, er, exaggerating must be another Republican family value.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/30/us/politics/30truth.html
Like I said, there is an alternative to Giuliani.;)
USMC the Almighty
11-30-2007, 05:20 PM
PLC, could you do me a favor and please check your private messages.
Popeye
11-30-2007, 05:56 PM
Like I said, there is an alternative to