Hilliary wins NH

[Popeye]

I guess all those reports of her demise were premature. Most polls had Obama winning by double digits, but in a big surprise Hilliary wins NH, and once again has to be considered the front runner.
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSN0264367920080109

[Libsmasher]

I guess all those reports of her demise were premature. Most polls had Obama winning by double digits, but in a big surprise Hilliary wins NH, and once again has to be considered the front runner.
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSN0264367920080109

Hillary has never stopped being the front runner. The Obama hysteria is the exclusive domain of (1) Obama groupies and (2) the liberal media.

[9sublime]

Debatable, the English media seemed positive he was going to win against Hiliary, even conservative newspapers like the Telegraph.

[Libsmasher]

Debatable, the English media seemed positive he was going to win against Hiliary, even conservative newspapers like the Telegraph.

Euro "conservative" equals american liberal. ;)

[heyjude]

The media in this country, liberal, moderate, and conservative fell all over itself to make Obama the nominee. They were just a tad premature.

Obama doesn't say much about his policies. He is basically just a cheerleader. I am not a Democrat, I'm a Libertarian. But watching the primaries does give me an opinion of the canidates. I think Obama acts like a prince who is entitled to win. There is no choice in his mind. The nomination is his by birthright. That annoys me. And I am one of those older women. I'd have voted for Clinton just to teach him some manners.

[TruthAboveAll]

The media in this country, liberal, moderate, and conservative fell all over itself to make Obama the nominee. They were just a tad premature.

Obama doesn't say much about his policies. He is basically just a cheerleader. I am not a Democrat, I'm a Libertarian. But watching the primaries does give me an opinion of the canidates. I think Obama acts like a prince who is entitled to win. There is no choice in his mind. The nomination is his by birthright. That annoys me. And I am one of those older women. I'd have voted for Clinton just to teach him some manners.

It's been funny watching the mainstream media going from slathering over Clinton, to an attempt at balancing by respecting Edwards and the difficulties and commitment required with a very ill wife, to heralding Obama as the voice of change.

I agree somewhat with your assessment of Obama, his policies (or lack thereof), etc. Obama acts like a prince, especially since his coronation by Oprah. That is the single event, in my opinion, that has elevated his stature from upstart challenger to the person most likely to win.

Another interesting effect since receiving the Oprah stamp of approval is the consequent slide of Hillary in general. With favorable ratings never topping 50% in most polls, she had still been the chosen one to ascend to the Presidency. Her presumptuousness is the primary thing Obama is challenging, in effect, at this point. Lots of big delegate states coming up, and who knows what will happen?

[numinus]

What surprises me is how the social forecast of statisticians were way off. This suggests to me that a statistically significant factor was injected 2 days before the primaries. Anyone care to comment exactly what this factor is?

[LibertyHawk]

What surprises me is how the social forecast of statisticians were way off. This suggests to me that a statistically significant factor was injected 2 days before the primaries. Anyone care to comment exactly what this factor is?Even the exit polls were off by ten points. It sounds to me like a lot of people like to talk up supporting Obama when they really refuse to vote for a black man.

[Izz]

Living in New Hampshire, I could tell you that it's a prematurely white state, but we all know that already. While racism might have had a hand in Hilary's win, I don't think it's the only thing to consider. Another thing is experience.

We voted for Mcain again, like we do every time he runs. Why? Because at over sixty years of age the man's been there and done that. The elders of New Hampshire like someone who's been around the block, while the younger ones just want someone who's willing to change things. It's a bit of a conflicted place.

That being the case, those democrats who voted picked the one person they knew had more experience- Clinton. Obama's a politician, sure, but they've SEEN Hilary before, and they know her policies. To them Obama's a sign of radical options, while Hilary's nice and safe and experienced.

I don't think her being a woman had much of a factor in the long run, although I'm sure there were some who voted for or against her because of it. All I can say is that anyone who thought New Hampshire was going to vote the same way as Iowa was kinda sorta dumb. Since when have we cared what Iowa thought?

Meh. I voted for Richardson.

[LibertyHawk]

Living in New Hampshire, I could tell you that it's a prematurely white state, but we all know that already. While racism might have had a hand in Hilary's win, I don't think it's the only thing to consider. Another thing is experience.

We voted for Mcain again, like we do every time he runs. And McCain got the *exact* percentage of votes, listed by exit polling. Yet Obama somehow gets ten points less than what people claim to have voted. That was either the most flawed exit polling in the history of NH, or it's racism.

Btw, I'm not one of Obama's supporters. I'm hoping McCain gets the nomination since Paul's out. Though if Huckabee expands on this lead in my state, I may well be voting for Obama in the primaries.

[numinus]

Even the exit polls were off by ten points. It sounds to me like a lot of people like to talk up supporting Obama when they really refuse to vote for a black man.

You have a standard deviation of 5 percentage points, which should include people fibbing at exit polls.

Are you telling me that the discrepancy is due to nothing more than an unusually large population of liars?

[heyjude]

I read an article about Obama today, and I agree with it. The older people, over thirty crowd, who listen to Obama are unimpressed with him. And I think the older people are, the more uninpressed they are. We've seen his kind come and go. They get everyone excited, then they just fade away. He is going to have to prove to people he is more than that. The burden of proof is his.

The young people are not going to elect anyone to office. They could help a lot if everyone supported someone. I think most Republican nominees would eat Obama alive. The man needs a good deal more experience than he has. John Kennedy ran four years before he won. He learned a lot in those four years. I think Obama will. Maybe he will even learn to respect women and to be a teensy bit humble.

[jpn of Seattle]

I think most Republican nominees would eat Obama alive.

Yeah, snoring Fred Thompson would just eat him alive.
Mitt Romney, the Stepford Candidate, would just eat him alive.
John McCain, Mr. Octegenarian would just eat him alive.
Rudy Giuliani, the Gangster candidate would eat him alive.
Huckabee, the Religious Fundamentalist would eat him alive (with help from his campaign manager, Jesus, of course).

The GOP field is so weak that they will lose no matter who the Dems put up against them.

Obama, IMHO, will do great. So will Clinton. They are going to wipe the floor with whichever midget wins the GOP nomination.

The Democrats are for changes in our foreign policy, our health care, our fiscal policy. Repuplicans want more of the same in Iraq, more of the same in health care, and more tax cuts for the rich. America is tired of that.

[Libsmasher]

I read an article about Obama today, and I agree with it. The older people, over thirty crowd, who listen to Obama are unimpressed with him. And I think the older people are, the more uninpressed they are. We've seen his kind come and go. They get everyone excited, then they just fade away. He is going to have to prove to people he is more than that. The burden of proof is his.

The young people are not going to elect anyone to office. They could help a lot if everyone supported someone. I think most Republican nominees would eat Obama alive. The man needs a good deal more experience than he has. John Kennedy ran four years before he won. He learned a lot in those four years. I think Obama will. Maybe he will even learn to respect women and to be a teensy bit humble.

Hilllary remains the likely nominee. The "crying incident" shows how shrewd she is. As the other candidates drop out, someone somewhere, obviously not the lib media, is going to nail Obama down on policy, and then they'll see that there's nothing there - just claims. He has kind of laid low in the senate, but if you look at his record in Illinois, you'll see it represents the extreme left wing. Right now, he is getting a little boring. You STILL can't become president in this country with just the support of ignorant groupies and the liberal media. How many whites will jump aboard the Obama bandwagon when they understand what an Obama win would mean? "Affirmative action", unrestricted abortion, appeasement, health care rationing, weakness in the face of islamists, big taxes, big government................

[heyjude]

You've found out a lot more about him than I have. I have never heard him give an opinion on anything.

I don't think men understand about women and tears. Perhaps not so much today, but when older women were raised, crying was the only emotion girls were allowed to have. We tear up when we are angry. It is very frustrating and we don't like it. But believe me, we get angry. We tear up when we feel any emotion. That is why we cry when we are happy.

We are not saps. We simply respond to emotion differently. Men will sometimes act angry when they are embarassed or frightened. Boy were allowed to be angry, but not to cry.

Women and men may express their emotions differently, but we feel the same emotions, and we are equally able to rise above our emotions and behave very well. As you saw Clinton recover. Most women do not believe Clinton was faking and it is kind of annoying that men do.

[jpn of Seattle]

Since some here say they are having trouble ascertaining where Obama stands on various issues, here is where he stands, from his campaign web site:

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/

[Mr. Shaman]

......And, FLORIDA (http://projects.washingtonpost.com/2008-presidential-candidates/primaries/states/fl/d/)!!!!!!!!!!!!! :cool:

[Bunz]

Yeah its a shame Florida doesnt mean anything.

[Mr. Shaman]

Yeah its a shame Florida doesnt mean anything.
Wait'll Convention-time! Florida is one o' the BIGS!!

[Mr. Shaman]

Edwards has bailed (http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/30/edwards/index.html).

[9sublime]

I think Obama is going to really struggle if he gets the nomination, sadly, because his black.

[Mr. Shaman]

I think Obama is going to really struggle if he gets the nomination, sadly, because his black.
You can count-on-it.

"conservatives" insist they want (and, can beat) Hillary.....but, they'll have a much-easier job shredding Obama (seeing-as-how they haven't....so far).

Obama would be well-served to do some Cabinet-time, before he attempts any Presidential-campaign. He's gonna need to spend some time, on the National-Stage (as-opposed-to Illinois, only), if he wants a real National-following (rather-than his present fan-club).

[9sublime]

I just hate Hilary Clinton so so much. She would be better fitted being an actor. She can act very well e.g. making herself cry and shes bi1chy and pathetic enough when ripping into Obama to fit into celebrity circles very nicely (not to mention she looks like a chat show host rather than the potentially most powerful woman in the world).

Obama on the other hand is reserved, intelligent and an independent thinker by the looks of things - exactly what your country needs IMO- someone who thinks properly before they act.

EDIT: for some reason the word for a female dog is filtered.

[USMC the Almighty]

I think Obama is going to really struggle if he gets the nomination, sadly, because his black.

The rights have blacks in this country usually outstrip that of white females. Black males could vote in the South in 1865 (didn't get the right in the North until 1867) but women weren't allowed to vote until 1919. Traditionally, there have been more black male CEOs than women, etc. etc.

The point I am making here is that black males usually ascend to positions of power faster than women so I don't agree that Obama's color would make it any harder for him than Hillary's gender.

[Mr. Shaman]

The point I am making here is that black males usually ascend to positions of power faster than women so I don't agree that Obama's color would make it any harder for him than Hillary's gender.
Hell.....it's starting (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x101752), already.

[vyo476]

Black males could vote in the South in 1865 (didn't get the right in the North until 1867) but women weren't allowed to vote until 1919. Traditionally, there have been more black male CEOs than women, etc. etc.

It's true, black males were legally granted the right to vote before women, but remember the Jim Crow laws? Ever read about / seen the pictures of the hundreds, perhaps thousands of black men who were lynched for attempting to vote in primarily white communities? The right may have been there, but the consent of the majority of society was not, and that gives any law a hell of a hard time to do its job.

[Mr. Shaman]

It's true, black males were legally granted the right to vote before women, but remember the Jim Crow laws? Ever read about / seen the pictures of the hundreds, perhaps thousands of black men who were lynched for attempting to vote in primarily white communities?
I'm pretty-certain that voting didn't make the top-o'-the-list, when Blacks were given the ol' States' Rights treatment (http://www.liu.edu/cwis/cwp/library/african/2000/lynching.htm). I'm sure there was a significant entertainment-value, as well.

*

Lynchings were also treated as entertainment events (http://www.crimelibrary.com/classics2/carnival/) and like the Waco incident, often attended by thousands of onlookers.

[9sublime]

Blacks had de jure voting rights before women yes - but not de facto.

[USMC the Almighty]

You're all missing my point. Black males have traditionally had it easier ascending to positions of power than white females which is why I believe that Hillary's gender will pose more problems for her than Obama's color.

[9sublime]

I think its pretty close to be honest - well, whatever happens and whoever wins the nomination the Democrats are going to struggle because of it.

[Mr. Shaman]

I just hate Hilary Clinton so so much. She would be better fitted being an actor. She can act very well e.g. making herself cry and shes bi1chy and pathetic enough when ripping into Obama to fit into celebrity circles very nicely (not to mention she looks like a chat show host rather than the potentially most powerful woman in the world).
Gee.....whatta strong political-position you've taken. :rolleyes:

What's she DONE that's bothered you????


http://www.ontheissues.org/Hillary_Clinton.htm

[9sublime]

Cried in public for sympathy, ripped into Obama so much it feels like she does that more than talk about her policies - you need a real president, like Obama, not someone like her.

[Mr. Shaman]

Cried in public for sympathy....
She told you this, huh......or, are you simply one o' those magical mind-readers? :rolleyes:

.....ripped into Obama so much it feels like she does that more than talk about her policies......
Examples, please. :rolleyes:

[Mr. Shaman]

I think its pretty close to be honest - well, whatever happens and whoever wins the nomination the Democrats are going to struggle because of it.
....Which just happened to be the same Sales Pitch the Republicans made, in '92.....that, no matter what he did, Bill Clinton would never be able to change our economic-trajectory......and, the Republicans would waltz-back-into The Oval Office in '96. :rolleyes:

*

McCain's stagy self-flagellation, on behalf of all Republicans, for betraying the Reagan revolution when they controlled Congress and the White House is entirely misplaced. George W. Bush and the GOP Congress did precisely what Reagan did: They cut taxes, mainly on the well-to-do, but they barely touched spending.

If the GOP is looking around for an icon to worship, it might consider Bill Clinton. He cut spending from 21.4% of GDP to 18.5% -- three times as much as Reagan. True, he raised taxes from 17.6% to 19.8%, but that's still a smaller chunk than when Reagan left office. And he left us with an annual surplus that threatened to eliminate the national debt. What's more, I think he's available.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-kinsley1feb01,0,1621249.story

[Mr. Shaman]

Obama on the other hand is reserved, intelligent and an independent thinker by the looks of things - exactly what your country needs IMO- someone who thinks properly before they act.
Unfortunately (for him), his talk, about lobbyists, doesn't match his actions.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/02/04/markets/election_donors/index.htm?cnn=yes

[9sublime]

What's Obama done against his principles?

Hiliary cried again by the way!

[Popeye]

What's Obama done against his principles?

Hiliary cried again by the way!

Nothing

I got my ballot in the mail yesterday. Voted for Obama.

[heyjude]

And Bush cried during his State of the Union address. Does that bother you 9sublime?

I think that Obama had better toughen up if he is going to run for president. No one in the Clinton campaign has said anything bad about the little prince. But the Republicans will. He will be one bloodied mess by the time they get through swiftboating him. If he can't take the heat, he has no business running. I think Clinton is more capable of taking it than he and his followers.

[9sublime]

Obama needs to toughen up? Hes not the one crying if you remember rightly. We will see if Obama needs to toughen up when the time comes.

I don't care if George Bush cried in the state of the Union address - it doesn't change wether or not Hiliary is a wet blanket.

[Mr. Shaman]

Obama needs to toughen up? Hes not the one crying if you remember rightly. We will see if Obama needs to toughen up when the time comes.

I don't care if George Bush cried in the state of the Union address - it doesn't change wether or not Hiliary is a wet blanket.
Ah, yes....the wet-blanket who was never gonna get the nomination as a N.Y. Senator.....who was never gonna get re-elected as a N.Y. Senator....who was never gonna win in N.Y., as a Presidential-candidate...... :rolleyes:

BTW......"...she beat John Kerry and Ted Kennedy in their back yard (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/05/AR2008020503397.html)." :p

[heyjude]

And in spite of all the Big Name Kennedys in California out there for Obama, she won. I guess that the Kennedy charm isn't what it used to be. Or maybe they just felt like I do. I voted for Clinton because I am one angry woman, sick of the hate Clinton people. I am tired of seeing her being dissed on every tv station. I am tired of the pundits acting like they are ready to gag because they can't call her names on tv. And the little prince, whom they like, that they think can do no wrong.

[Popeye]

And in spite of all the Big Name Kennedys in California out there for Obama, she won. I guess that the Kennedy charm isn't what it used to be. Or maybe they just felt like I do. I voted for Clinton because I am one angry woman, sick of the hate Clinton people. I am tired of seeing her being dissed on every tv station. I am tired of the pundits acting like they are ready to gag because they can't call her names on tv. And the little prince, whom they like, that they think can do no wrong.
I'm getting tired of her playing the woman card.

I will vote for Hilliary if she's the nominee, but I think Obama is the future of the party, Clinton the past.

She gets nominated, she will drag the party down as her polarizing qualities will bring the right wing out in droves.

Obama is the best chance for a Democratic victory in Nov.

[9sublime]

Just because she got elected somewhere doesn't stop her being a wet blanket, it just makes her a good politician as far as winning the election is concerned.

At crunch times if she comes to power I think she would cock up.