Honour Killing

[Iftikhar]

Honour Killing
Honour killing and female infanticide come from Pagan-Hindu-Judeo-Christian traditions. Hindus idolise women as Goddesses on one hand, while downgrading them on the sly at the same time. There is nothing in the Holy Quran and the Hadiths that may encourage people to kill their daughters. Infact, Islam came to abolish the dark ages of Pagan- Hindu –Judeo- Christian traditions. Islam is a matter of choice and there is no compulsion at all. It is a misconception that forced marriage and honour killing are part of Muslim culture. Forced marriage, honour killing and genital mutilation are rare practices among migrant communities. Muslim migrants are worried about institutional racism, binge drinking, drug addiction, incivility, gun and knife crimes, high rate of abortions and teen age pregnancies. An average of 20 English girls under the age of 16 falls pregnant every day. Muslim parents do not want their children to be integrated into such barbarity. Muslim women feel torn between two cultures, thanks to the British education system with non-Muslim monolingual teachers. It makes their lives very confusing.

The tragedy of forced marriage and honour killing could have been avoided if the poor girls were educated in a single sex state funded Muslim schools by female Muslim teachers. Educational attainment rises quite significantly if boys and girls are educated separately. The tragedies are an eye opener for all those Muslim parents who send their children to state schools where they are exposed to non-Muslim teachers who have no respect for Islamic faith and Muslim community and do not understand the needs and demands of the Muslim children. Muslim schools are crucial for Muslim children because western education makes a man/woman stupid. The hypocrisy of the Western society is clearly seen whereas an Australian Judge failed to jail nine males who admitted gang-raping a 10-year old aborigine girl in 2005, saying the victim probably agreed to have sex with them and a UNICEF Photo of the year shows, a bridegroom, 40, with his 11-year old bride in Afghanistan. In my opinion, a UNICEF photo of the year must show a nine year British girl having a baby and another photo showing a gang of teenage girls with anti-social behaviour and vomiting out side a pub, thanks to binge drinking. Muslim children need state funded Muslim schools with Muslim teachers as role models during their developmental periods. Muslim schools are the solutions and not a problem. They help to strengthen community cohesion, not undermine it. Muslim schools stand as shining beacons of light, serving as one of the most crucial factors which protect Muslim children from the onslaught of Eurocentricism, homosexuality, racism and secular values and traditions. They need to be well versed in Standard English to follow the National Curriculum and go for higher studies and research to serve humanity. At the same time they need to be well versed in Arabic, Urdu and other community languages to keep in touch with their cultural roots and enjoy the beauty of their literature and poetry. Muslim schools are not only faith schools but also bilingual schools. Infact, bilingualism is an asset and not a problem as perceived by the British education system. There is a positive co-relation between language and culture. English language is associated with western culture.

The silent majority of Muslim parents would like to send their children to Muslim schools but there are not enough schools to go by. The only alternative left is either British Government should introduce voucher system for parents to choose the school of their choice or designate all those state schools as Muslim community schools where Muslim pupils are in majority. There are hundreds of state schools where Muslims are in majority. Such schools may be handed over to Muslim educational Trusts or charities for their management. They are in a better position to educate Muslim children in accordance with their needs and demands. This demand is in accordance with the law of the land because there are state schools already managed by private companies. Muslim community is not asking for a favour. It is their legal right.
Iftikhar Ahmad

Please stop putting your link in your posts. It's spam.

[bewitched]

the only place that honor killing is taking place is in Islam.

stop blaming the problems within Islam on the West.

[bewitched]

and here's another example of peaceful islam:
"(IsraelNN.com) Fatah chief and PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas's PA television has been repeatedly broadcasting a hate-filled music video calling for the ethnic cleansing of the Jewish people from Israel.
"My enemy, oh snake! Around the land, you are coiled. You have no choice, oh enemy, but to leave my country," is the refrain in the video, which has been broadcast on a daily basis for the past several months, according to Palestinian Media Watch (PMW)."

[Iftikhar]

Salaam


Majority of Muslim children leave schools with low grades because state
schools with monolingual teachers are not capable of teacing Standard
English to bilingual Muslim children.

Bilingual Muslim children need state funded Muslim schools with bilingual
Muslim teachers as role models. They need to be well versed in Standard
English to follow the National Curriculum and go for higher studies and
research to serve humanity. They need to be well versed in Arabic, Urdu and
other community languages to keep in touch with their cultural roots anbd
enjoy the beauty of their literature and poetry.

A Muslim is a citizen of this tiny global village. He/she does not want to
become notoriously monolingual Brit.

[9sublime]

Oh, look whos back.


It is a misconception that forced marriage and honour killing are part of Muslim culture. Forced marriage, honour killing and genital mutilation are rare practices among migrant communities.

Well, it happens in the West even less so its certainly not because of western culture is it? Its something that has spawned out of Islam, and its a problem Islam needs to accept and deal with in itself.


The tragedy of forced marriage and honour killing could have been avoided if the poor girls were educated in a single sex state funded Muslim schools by female Muslim teachers.

This is just ridiculous. So its our culture's fault that the honour killings occured? Why can't you take the blame for it yourself. Your culture does honour killings, you need to deal with it.



Muslim schools are crucial for Muslim children because western education makes a man/woman stupid. The hypocrisy of the Western society is clearly seen

Well then **** off home mate. Come here, intergrate, be tolerant and expect the same back. I hate racists who attack Muslims or blacks etc. because of their skin colour or religion - but if you come here and attack our way of life you are just as bad. You are a racist yourself, a Muslim bigot.

If its so bad here, why don't you piss off back to wherever its so great with an Islamic government enforcing its way on everyone.


Muslim schools stand as shining beacons of light, serving as one of the most crucial factors which protect Muslim children from the onslaught of Eurocentricism, homosexuality, racism and secular values and traditions.

Homosexuality is not an onslaught, your Islam induced intoleranc however certainly is.

Secular values? What exactly are they? I don't follow a religion and I live a wholesome life and don't go around murdering and raping.

Eurocentrism? You don't have to deal with it if you leave Europe and go to a Muslim country.

Racism? Maybe if you weren't so pro segregation and realised intergrating is the only approach Muslims would recieve a bit less racism back. Segregation is racist in itself, even if your race is the one promoting it. Calling western education stupid and western society hypocritical is a form of racism.



The silent majority of Muslim parents would like to send their children to Muslim schools but there are not enough schools to go by.


Silent majority? What a cheap cop out. Everyone wants it, they just don't say. Well, hey, we live in a democracy, not some theocratic dictatorship, and here you say what you want and if the majority want it you get it. Until that happens, I certainly hope we don't go around funding this ridiculous idea of segregating Muslims.

[Coyote]

the only place that honor killing is taking place is in Islam.

stop blaming the problems within Islam on the West.

Actually you are wrong. There is nothing in Islam itself that concerning honor killing.


From Wikipedia:

The killing of (a possibly adulterous) wife by an enraged husband or the killing of a male by the family of (a supposedly dishonoured) female is or was common and often condoned in many cultures. Such a cultural attitude was often reflected in a reduced sentence for such a murder by the judicial system. However the killing of females by their own family members is rare except in tribal cultures of the Middle East, Near East and South Asia. In the West, such murder is perceived to be exclusively associated with Muslim communities. Honour killing of female family members occurs among some rural Muslim communities with a strongly feudal tribal culture, as well as Druze tribes in some Arab countries and Pakistan, although it is much rarer or non-existent in the Muslim communities of Kazakhstan, Kyrghyzstan, most of Central Asia, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, sub-Saharan Africa, Malaysia and Indonesia. It also occurs among Sikh adherents in India and Canada.

Islamic religious authorities prohibit extra-legal punishments such as honour killings, since they consider the practice to be a cultural issue.[24] They believe that since certain pre-Islamic cultures have influence over a number of Muslims, murderers of females use Islam to justify honour killing, but claim that there is no support for the act in the religion itself.

[bewitched]

Actually you are wrong. There is nothing in Islam itself that concerning honor killing.


.yote, get a grip. honor killing isn't happening in Cleveland, San Diego, Paris, or Toronto. it's happening in Pakistan, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Saudi, Libya, and all other places in Islam.
honor killing is usually carried out by fathers, uncles, brothers against girls who are raped and no longer marriage material.
this is usually after their clits are cut off.

[Coyote]

yote, get a grip. honor killing isn't happening in Cleveland, San Diego, Paris, or Toronto. it's happening in Pakistan, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Saudi, Libya, and all other places in Islam.
honor killing is usually carried out by fathers, uncles, brothers against girls who are raped and no longer marriage material.
this is usually after their clits are cut off.

Where in the Koran does it say anything about Honor Killing?

You're the "expert"...show me....

[9sublime]

I don't think bewitched is claiming the Koran ever says honour killing is right, I just think he is pointing out how ****ing ridiculous it is for this man to try and blame western culture for honour killings happening by people in Arabic, African or Eastern countries or people of Eastern and Arabic, and African descent in the UK

[Coyote]

I don't think bewitched is claiming the Koran ever says honour killing is right, I just think he is pointing out how ****ing ridiculous it is for this man to try and blame western culture for honour killings happening by people in Arabic, African or Eastern countries or people of Eastern and Arabic, and African descent in the UK

Oh...I'm not so sure.


He said: "...and all other places in Islam. " and that is flat out wrong.

However - I agree, the original poster is flat out wrong.

[bewitched]

Oh...I'm not so sure.


He said: "...and all other places in Islam. " and that is flat out wrong.

However - I agree, the original poster is flat out wrong.

I'm a she. and other places in Islam include Indonesia, and even muslim communities in Chechnya, the Stans, Thailand. and yes, honor killings take place there too.

[Coyote]

I'm a she. and other places in Islam include Indonesia, and even muslim communities in Chechnya, the Stans, Thailand. and yes, honor killings take place there too.


Whatever you say Steve....you are still wrong.


Repeat:

From Wikipedia:

The killing of (a possibly adulterous) wife by an enraged husband or the killing of a male by the family of (a supposedly dishonoured) female is or was common and often condoned in many cultures. Such a cultural attitude was often reflected in a reduced sentence for such a murder by the judicial system. However the killing of females by their own family members is rare except in tribal cultures of the Middle East, Near East and South Asia. In the West, such murder is perceived to be exclusively associated with Muslim communities. Honour killing of female family members occurs among some rural Muslim communities with a strongly feudal tribal culture, as well as Druze tribes in some Arab countries and Pakistan, although it is much rarer or non-existent in the Muslim communities of Kazakhstan, Kyrghyzstan, most of Central Asia, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, sub-Saharan Africa, Malaysia and Indonesia. It also occurs among Sikh adherents in India and Canada.

Islamic religious authorities prohibit extra-legal punishments such as honour killings, since they consider the practice to be a cultural issue.[24] They believe that since certain pre-Islamic cultures have influence over a number of Muslims, murderers of females use Islam to justify honour killing, but claim that there is no support for the act in the religion itself.[/QUOTE]

[ilikeboobs]

Salaam


Majority of Muslim children leave schools with low grades because state
schools with monolingual teachers are not capable of teacing Standard
English to bilingual Muslim children.

Bilingual Muslim children need state funded Muslim schools with bilingual
Muslim teachers as role models. They need to be well versed in Standard
English to follow the National Curriculum and go for higher studies and
research to serve humanity. They need to be well versed in Arabic, Urdu and
other community languages to keep in touch with their cultural roots anbd
enjoy the beauty of their literature and poetry.

A Muslim is a citizen of this tiny global village. He/she does not want to
become notoriously monolingual Brit.


How about they learn English before immigrating? That's the only problem I have with immigrants today (unless it's an emergency to save your life) is that they go somewhere better yet expect the host country to cater to them, to bend to whatever they need. Sorry - my compassion only goes so far.

[bewitched]

Whatever you say Steve....you are still wrong.


Repeat:

From Wikipedia:

The killing of (a possibly adulterous) wife by an enraged husband or the killing of a male by the family of (a supposedly dishonoured) female is or was common and often condoned in many cultures. Such a cultural attitude was often reflected in a reduced sentence for such a murder by the judicial system. However the killing of females by their own family members is rare except in tribal cultures of the Middle East, Near East and South Asia. In the West, such murder is perceived to be exclusively associated with Muslim communities. Honour killing of female family members occurs among some rural Muslim communities with a strongly feudal tribal culture, as well as Druze tribes in some Arab countries and Pakistan, although it is much rarer or non-existent in the Muslim communities of Kazakhstan, Kyrghyzstan, most of Central Asia, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, sub-Saharan Africa, Malaysia and Indonesia. It also occurs among Sikh adherents in India and Canada.

Islamic religious authorities prohibit extra-legal punishments such as honour killings, since they consider the practice to be a cultural issue.[24] They believe that since certain pre-Islamic cultures have influence over a number of Muslims, murderers of females use Islam to justify honour killing, but claim that there is no support for the act in the religion itself.[/QUOTE]
Steve? ahhhhh. you think I'm someone else.
why?
wikipedia is very interesting but you have to apply the words to reality.

[Coyote]

Steve? ahhhhh. you think I'm someone else.
why?
wikipedia is very interesting but you have to apply the words to reality.


Sorry. Typo.



You need other sources to confirm reality?

Reports submitted to the United Nations Commission on Human Rights show that honor killings have occurred in Bangladesh, Great Britain, Brazil, Ecuador, Egypt, India, Israel, Italy, Jordan, Pakistan, Morocco, Sweden, Turkey, and Uganda. In countries not submitting reports to the UN, the practice was condoned under the rule of the fundamentalist Taliban government in Afghanistan, and has been reported in Iraq and Iran.

But while honor killings have elicited considerable attention and outrage, human rights activists argue that they should be regarded as part of a much larger problem of violence against women.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/02/0212_020212_honorkilling.html

In India, for example, more than 5,000 brides die annually because their dowries are considered insufficient, according to the United Nations Children's Fund (UNICEF). Crimes of passion, which are treated extremely leniently in Latin America, are the same thing with a different name, some rights advocates say.

"In countries where Islam is practiced, they're called honor killings, but dowry deaths and so-called crimes of passion have a similar dynamic in that the women are killed by male family members and the crimes are perceived as excusable or understandable," said Widney Brown, advocacy director for Human Rights Watch.

The practice, she said, "goes across cultures and across religions."

http://www.gendercide.org/case_honour.html

Most "honour" killings of women occur in Muslim countries, the focus of this case study; but it is worth noting that no sanction for such murders is granted in Islamic religion or law. And the phenomenon is in any case a global one. According to Stephanie Nebehay, such killings "have been reported in Bangladesh, Britain, Brazil, Ecuador, Egypt, India, Israel, Italy, Jordan, Pakistan, Morocco, Sweden, Turkey and Uganda." Afghanistan, where the practice is condoned under the rule of the fundamentalist Taliban movement, can be added to the list, along with Iraq and Iran. (Nebehay, "'Honor Killings' of Women Said on Rise Worldwide," Reuters dispatch, April 7, 2000.)

[bewitched]

there is a difference between Indian women having acid thrown on their faces for refusing dowries and honor killings of raped daughters in muslim cultures.
yes, there was a clit removal in Atlanta, and it happens in London and other places... in muslim families.

you don't see a father killing his daughter in America because she has been raped and he wants to save the family reputation. that doesn't happen. and the point is simple.

[Coyote]

there is a difference between Indian women having acid thrown on their faces for refusing dowries and honor killings of raped daughters in muslim cultures.
yes, there was a clit removal in Atlanta, and it happens in London and other places... in muslim families.

There is no effective difference: the main point, in all of them - women are property and not full humans with their own right. This allows their relatives to treat them in inhuman ways.

In muslim families? In some muslim families that come from certain cultural backgrounds. In addition, female circumcision also occurs in Christian families from certain cultural backgrounds. Religion has nothing to do with it - it is cultural. If you can show me where in the Koran or Bible it states that this is policy, I'll back off and concede the argument that religion insists on honor killing and on female circumcision.


you don't see a father killing his daughter in America because she has been raped and he wants to save the family reputation. that doesn't happen. and the point is simple.


Yes, you are right. You don't see American-born muslims killing their daughters do you? Thank you for making my point.

[bewitched]

oh Yote, get out into the world. see it for yourself and get back to me.
a trip on wikipedia is like Disney World.

[Coyote]

oh Yote, get out into the world. see it for yourself and get back to me.
a trip on wikipedia is like Disney World.

Disney World? Is that where you've been hanging out?:confused:

[bewitched]

Disney World? Is that where you've been hanging out?:confused:

maybe that's where your friend Steve is. I dunno.
but no, they usually don't behead people in Disney World, or cut off clits, or throw acid on women's faces there.

[9sublime]

I think you need to accept that Coyote is right bewitched and honour killings are not just a Muslim thing - but at the same time the thread starter needs to accept that the last thing honour killings are is a western thing and that to try and blame it on us is just offensive and pathetic.

[bewitched]

I think you need to accept that Coyote is right bewitched and honour killings are not just a Muslim thing - but at the same time the thread starter needs to accept that the last thing honour killings are is a western thing and that to try and blame it on us is just offensive and pathetic.

the honor killings that take place in Islam are a muslim practice.
there is murder all over the world. but there is a certain muslim practice of killing raped daughters. it is carried out by fathers, brothers, or uncles.
if you want to lump all murders together then it gets nit-picky.

[Coyote]

the honor killings that take place in Islam are a muslim practice.
there is murder all over the world. but there is a certain muslim practice of killing raped daughters. it is carried out by fathers, brothers, or uncles.
if you want to lump all murders together then it gets nit-picky.

Except, your logic and knowledge is tragically flawed.

Most muslims do not practice this. It appears to be a practice limited to those living in certain geographical areas or descended from immigrants over those areas. As previously stated the majority of muslims neither condone nor practice this while, simultaneously - those of other religions who live in those areas do practice it.

No cigar for you. Try again. :)

[bewitched]

Except, your logic and knowledge is tragically flawed.

Most muslims do not practice this. It appears to be a practice limited to those living in certain geographical areas or descended from immigrants over those areas. As previously stated the majority of muslims neither condone nor practice this while, simultaneously - those of other religions who live in those areas do practice it.

No cigar for you. Try again. :)

most muslims?
who cares if most muslims don't practice this, the fact that they practice it at all shows that the culture is violent and kills in a fashion that is according to a custom of ideology.

[Coyote]

most muslims?
who cares if most muslims don't practice this, the fact that they practice it at all shows that the culture is violent and kills in a fashion that is according to a custom of ideology.


What about the Christians that do...? And the Sikhs?