The independence of Kossovo is not legitimate

[Hervé]

The independence of Kossovo is not legitimate.

Through the present petition, we urge the countries which have recognized Kossovo's independence to rescind their decision.

In the eyes of international law, this independence is neither legitimate nor legal with regard to the minorities living in the cradle of Serbian culture.

History has taught us that poking one's nose in the Balkanic powder keg always leads to dire internationational consequences.

http://1883.lapetition.be/

[bokile]

I agree with you:cool:

http://images.usatoday.com/news/_photos/2007/01/22/serb.jpg

[9sublime]

If they want independence, who are you to stop them? Government is for the people, not the other way round, and if the people don't want the government, they shouldn't have it.

[bokile]

If they want independence, who are you to stop them?

who stoped hitler-russians:D

[Coyote]

who stoped hitler-russians:D

I don't recall them wanting "independence"...

[BigRob]

The independence of Kossovo is not legitimate.

Through the present petition, we urge the countries which have recognized Kossovo's independence to rescind their decision.

In the eyes of international law, this independence is neither legitimate nor legal with regard to the minorities living in the cradle of Serbian culture.

History has taught us that poking one's nose in the Balkanic powder keg always leads to dire internationational consequences.

http://1883.lapetition.be/

How is this not legitimate under International Law?

Section 201 of the Restatement (Third) of the Foreign Relations Law of the United States (1987) defines a state as follows:
Under international law, a state is an entity that has a defined territory and a permanent population, under the control of its own government, and that engages in, or has the capacity to engage in, formal relations with other such entities.

Recognizing the state gives it legitimacy... how is this illegal?

[Bonniedundee]

The move to independence is completely independent. Kosovo doesn't want to be part of Serbia, which is completely their right.

[SavageDreamer]

Lol why is serbia freaking out over all of this? If they want their own government who r u to say they have to conform to ur values and wants?
How will it hurt serbia

[9sublime]

It will hurt their pride and any profits and benefits they can reap out of the economy of Kosovo.

[KingClovis]

The independence of Kossovo is not legitimate.

Through the present petition, we urge the countries which have recognized Kossovo's independence to rescind their decision.

In the eyes of international law, this independence is neither legitimate nor legal with regard to the minorities living in the cradle of Serbian culture.

History has taught us that poking one's nose in the Balkanic powder keg always leads to dire internationational consequences.

http://1883.lapetition.be/

Agreed. The Balkans don't need to be further divided. Also, Islam should be quietly, and as peacefully as possible, edged out of Europe.

[9sublime]

Maybe you want Islam edged out of Europe, but I'm afraid to say your view isn't what every will, or even should follow. Which religion you choose to follow is your choice.

The Balkans don't need to be divided further?? If those in Kosovo want their own government, it is their right to have one. Government serves the people, not the other way round.

[KingClovis]

Yeah.....edge it out, but peacefully, if possible. Get the Muslims out. They're left-overs from the Ottoman Empire. They don't belong in any part of Europe. Please don't blow up my car. That's just my opinion -- that's all. :(

[9sublime]

I have two very intelligent Muslim friends, two of the most intelligent people I know. They despise terrorism and are far nicer people than many fat, white people I know who do a lot more damage to society.

Why should they be edged out of Europe? Purely becuase they don't have the exact same belieft as you? Or because they don't look like you? Or because their parents have funny accents? Because I can assure you they are not going to blow up your car?

What you are saying is simply racist intolerance and I don't think Jesus would be very proud of you... do you? Practice what you preach if you are going to roam this board telling people you follow Jesus.

[KingClovis]

".....fat, white people......"

Now that is mean. And, BTW, what does being 'fat' have to do with being 'white' or anti-Muslim? Where's the connection? :confused:

[KingClovis]

I have two very intelligent Muslim friends, two of the most intelligent people I know. They despise terrorism and are far nicer people than many fat, white people I know who do a lot more damage to society.

Why should they be edged out of Europe? Purely becuase they don't have the exact same belieft as you? Or because they don't look like you? Or because their parents have funny accents? Because I can assure you they are not going to blow up your car?

What you are saying is simply racist intolerance and I don't think Jesus would be very proud of you... do you? Practice what you preach if you are going to roam this board telling people you follow Jesus.

Well, consider history. What has Islam done to European civilization every chance it got? It invaded, occupied and tormented it, that's what. Besides, it's an Arabic phenomenon. It has no place in Europe. Europe's true belief systems are Christianity and/or Greek classical thought.

Lastly, I was invited to this board. I don't consider myself a 'troll'. Everything I have just said I believe. Nonetheless, my traditional views do tend to be very offensive in this liberal age. I'm probably ripe for banning. In case I get the boot soon, please know I wish no one harm. I simply want Western Christian culture to not only survive, but stage a resurgence, and reclaim its lost populations and territories. If today that qualifies as hate-speech, so be it. I am a hideous monster, in that case. :(

[r0beph]

Agreed. The Balkans don't need to be further divided. Also, Islam should be quietly, and as peacefully as possible, edged out of Europe.

Along with the Christians, since they're really the same damned thing anyhow... Oh what would Abraham say if he saw you all now...

[r0beph]

Well, consider history. What has Islam done to European civilization every chance it got? It invaded, occupied and tormented it, that's what. Besides, it's an Arabic phenomenon. It has no place in Europe. Europe's true belief systems are Christianity and/or Greek classical thought.

Lastly, I was invited to this board. I don't consider myself a 'troll'. Everything I have just said I believe. Nonetheless, my traditional views do tend to be very offensive in this liberal age. I'm probably ripe for banning. In case I get the boot soon, please know I wish no one harm. I simply want Western Christian culture to not only survive, but stage a resurgence, and reclaim its lost populations and territories. If today that qualifies as hate-speech, so be it. I am a hideous monster, in that case. :(

I shalln't even go into what the christian and/or catholic regimes have done across the world in their religions name... again as I said... no different... not one iota.

[9sublime]

Well, consider history. What has Islam done to European civilization every chance it got? It invaded, occupied and tormented it, that's what. Besides, it's an Arabic phenomenon. It has no place in Europe. Europe's true belief systems are Christianity and/or Greek classical thought.

The Crusades and Inquisition, infighting for example in Northern Ireland, the "Holy" invasion of South America, as well as various conflicts in Africa have all been because of Christianity - lest we forget.

[KingClovis]

Along with the Christians, since they're really the same damned thing anyhow... Oh what would Abraham say if he saw you all now...

Anti-Christian sentiment, I see. It's frightenly too common on the internet these days. Jesus said there would be a time when we would be hated and persecuted because we follow Him. Those days have arrived in Europe, and are quickly catching up throughout Greater Europe. Since you obviously dislike Christians, why do you rhetorically ask what Abraham would say? That's sort of like an atheist quoting God. :mad:

[KingClovis]

The Crusades and Inquisition, infighting for example in Northern Ireland, the "Holy" invasion of South America, as well as various conflicts in Africa have all been because of Christianity - lest we forget.

And they were all for the greater good. Chrstian Civilization owes no apology in its attempts to unite Mankind. It gave Europe, first, along with the Roman Empire and the Greek Classical Tradition, its very identity. During the early Middle Ages, it literally saved European Man from annihilation at the hands of pagan barbarians. Christianity has been Man's greatest blessing, and cause in history.:)

[KingClovis]

I shalln't even go into what the christian and/or catholic regimes have done across the world in their religions name... again as I said... no different... not one iota.

And your science was one of the main instruments of death in Hitler's Holocaust.

[9sublime]

And they were all for the greater good

Wait wait wait... stringing people up for crimes against the faith, slaughtering non believers in foreign lands... in an attempt to unite the globe under one faith... all for the greater good... in the name of Allah, or in the name of God... all sounds frighteningly the same.

You are just as much a religious fanatic as a Muslim terrorist in my own humble, non believer, infidel opinion.

[9sublime]

And your science was one of the main instruments of death in Hitler's Holocaust.

Whoaaa, lets hold up here shall we... someone who believes in science is a Nazi?

[KingClovis]

Wait wait wait... stringing people up for crimes against the faith, slaughtering non believers in foreign lands... in an attempt to unite the globe under one faith... all for the greater good... in the name of Allah, or in the name of God... all sounds frighteningly the same.

You are just as much a religious fanatic as a Muslim terrorist in my own humble, non believer, infidel opinion.

You're wild.

[r0beph]

Anti-Christian sentiment, I see. It's frightenly too common on the internet these days. Jesus said there would be a time when we would be hated and persecuted because we follow Him. Those days have arrived in Europe, and are quickly catching up throughout Greater Europe. Since you obviously dislike Christians, why do you rhetorically ask what Abraham would say? That's sort of like an atheist quoting God. :mad:

Oh you are mistaken my friend, I have no hate nor ill will; I simply state fact. Trying to ignore that Christian's have done (even recently) that which sects of Muslims are doing does not make it disappear, and trying to mask it with a quick change of the point I was making doesn't either.

[r0beph]

And your science was one of the main instruments of death in Hitler's Holocaust.

Uhm. Science is not a belief system, if it weren't for the highly argumentative, debating, and constant battles between theories, we'd never learn a thing. What one scientist believes may go against many of the accepted theories, and suddenly we realize, he's on to something.... This is advancement. Nothing of this relates to Hitler.


The world is a spher, it rotates about the sun, which rotates around the central mass of the spiral galaxy The Milky Way. But this is of course a matter of another thread I'll happily join you in if you wish. Remember, Science is any system of knowledge which attempts to make sense of objective reality; More so science is a system of acquiring knowledge via the scientific method and the organized knowledge gained as such. Nothing in this can be morally correct or moral incorrect, science is unbiased and based on the objective content of our world. This is why I laugh at the ID crowd when they suppose "science." tsk tsk.... please, do not force me to play my hand, I assure you it's aces high.

But back to your ...uhm, point? I guess. My avatar is not so much a belief SYSTEM as it is me expressing my belief in that which is logical and defined by observation and empirics. Of course, I don't assume you'd understand this.

[KingClovis]

Oh you are mistaken my friend, I have no hate nor ill will; I simply state fact. Trying to ignore that Christian's have done (even recently) that which sects of Muslims are doing does not make it disappear, and trying to mask it with a quick change of the point I was making doesn't either.

Everyone has done regrettable things at some point. You and I have. Yes, Christian peoples have as well, in times past. AND, so has your science, in the hands of nefarious people. But if you believe Christianity is on equal footing with Islam, with regard to its promotion of Civilization, you are either misinformed or too prejudicial to acknowledge facts. Either way, that's your problem, not mine. We reap what we sow.:(

[9sublime]

Islam has done some great things for civillization.

Remember that period when the whole of the western world collapsed into the Dark Ages due to a mix between the plague and Christian fundamentalism restricting scientific advancement (anything that did so was called blastphemous and the work of the devil).

Well, what happened was all the Muslim scholars took our knowledge and looked after it for us in their mosques so that when we decided to stop acting like stone age men fighting each other and living in squalor we went and got it back. If it wasn't for them we would be hundrerds of years behind in fields such as medicine.

[9sublime]

You're wild.

Killer come back mate. I would give you a reputation point but computer says no.

[vyo476]

Everyone has done regrettable things at some point. You and I have. Yes, Christian peoples have as well, in times past. AND, so has your science, in the hands of nefarious people. But if you believe Christianity is on equal footing with Islam, with regard to its promotion of Civilization, you are either misinformed or too prejudicial to acknowledge facts. Either way, that's your problem, not mine. We reap what we sow.:(

So basically, science in the wrong hands has had bad results. No argument there. Christianity, in the wrong hands, has also had bad results. No argument there either. However, these two evidenciary facts don't add up to "Islam is Evil" or some other nonsensical diatribe against their religion. If science and Christianity have been misued when in the wrong hands, doesn't it stand to reason that the same is true of Islam?

And by the way, it's your science too. If you'd like to prove me wrong, you can start with gravity - find a bridge or a nice, tall building and show us all how it's not your science.

[KingClovis]

Islam has done some great things for civillization.

Remember that period when the whole of the western world collapsed into the Dark Ages due to a mix between the plague and Christian fundamentalism restricting scientific advancement (anything that did so was called blastphemous and the work of the devil).

Well, what happened was all the Muslim scholars took our knowledge and looked after it for us in their mosques so that when we decided to stop acting like stone age men fighting each other and living in squalor we went and got it back. If it wasn't for them we would be hundrerds of years behind in fields such as medicine.


Sure, but what has it done lately? :confused:

[KingClovis]

So basically, science in the wrong hands has had bad results. No argument there. Christianity, in the wrong hands, has also had bad results. No argument there either. However, these two evidenciary facts don't add up to "Islam is Evil" or some other nonsensical diatribe against their religion. If science and Christianity have been misued when in the wrong hands, doesn't it stand to reason that the same is true of Islam?

And by the way, it's your science too. If you'd like to prove me wrong, you can start with gravity - find a bridge or a nice, tall building and show us all how it's not your science.

Take your woman to the Islamic world. Live there for about a year. See how she likes it.:(

[9sublime]

Sure, but what has it done lately? :confused:

So now your backing down and admitting Islam has done many great things.

What great things has Christanity done recently?

Is it an excuse to wipe a faith out because it hasn't done something amazing to change the world for a few hundered years? Sounds to me like we should wipe out all the faiths then.

[KingClovis]

So now your backing down and admitting Islam has done many great things.

What great things has Christanity done recently?

Is it an excuse to wipe a faith out because it hasn't done something amazing to change the world for a few hundered years? Sounds to me like we should wipe out all the faiths then.

Islamic scholarship during the Middle Ages was indispensable. My point is that soon afterward, however, it commenced on a course of steady regression, where it remains even today. :(

[9sublime]

What is this steady regression?

[KingClovis]

What is this steady regression?

Back toward primitive fundamentalism.

[9sublime]

See, there is the assumption. The assumption that the majority of Muslims are, or will be fundamentalists which has no real evidence behind it.

[r0beph]

Everyone has done regrettable things at some point. You and I have. Yes, Christian peoples have as well, in times past. AND, so has your science, in the hands of nefarious people. But if you believe Christianity is on equal footing with Islam, with regard to its promotion of Civilization, you are either misinformed or too prejudicial to acknowledge facts. Either way, that's your problem, not mine. We reap what we sow.:(

My science as opposed to who's? Yours? 6000 year old earth maybe? Just a wonder....It isn't my science it's human's science, we've learned, experimented, and with our vast, albeit very incomplete, knowledge we've made hypotheses, assumptions, and pointed out correlations that have been proven time and time again. Whether you believe it or not, gravity is the warped space that creates the downward motion as you fall through 'space' in a free fall, the sun rides around the galaxy's arms, we around the sun, the moon around us... All of this is pretty easy to see, yet you'll find many who disbelieve without any reasonable argument save for what is in a book.. So explain to me how this, albeit not quite violent, teachings to the future generations of our race isn't a dog lead to dark (in terms of knowledge) ages? IF these people had their way, those who believed such, they'd flog every non believer, kill every gay, and stone to death every person who is living with their girlfriend unmarried... Isn't it the minor sects of Islamists that are doing just that? Take a look around, if it wasn't for our laws and the enforcement there of I'm sure we'd have similar factions in Christianity... Check out the Christians in some of the anarchic countries around the world, look in africa, Christians roving about murdering those who don't believe, look at the russian orthodoxy and their treatment of non-Christians in Russia.... sir, to assume that Christians are not on the same table as the Muslims of the same ideology, you are sadly mistaken, but unlike you, I will not say that simply because of this, you as a Christian are ALSO like them....Think more, speak less....

[vyo476]

Take your woman to the Islamic world. Live there for about a year. See how she likes it.:(

1. This was not a response to my post. This was a dodge, and not a very subtle one at that. If my reasoning is that Islam can be and has been (and continues to be) mishandled, how does a statement of "go experience it being mishandled" refute my point at all?

2. I would not claim any woman as "mine"; furthermore, most of the women I know and associate with would be very offended to be referred to so blatantly as possessions. This is on you, unless you'd like to cleverly retract or redirect the above-quoted statement.

[vyo476]

Islamic scholarship during the Middle Ages was indispensable. My point is that soon afterward, however, it commenced on a course of steady regression, where it remains even today. :(

Consider the role of affluence on society.

During the Middle Ages, the Middle East was one of, if not the, most affluent regions of the planet. Things were more or less good there in a way they weren't elsewhere - science and culture were both advancing.

The Renaissance hit, and suddenly the Middle East started losing its affluence. The Ottoman Empire took over and, to borrow a phrase from the most academic of textbooks, "royally dicked things up." The Middle East, and Islam with it, fell into a regressive spiral that toppled them from one of the world's premiere civilizations to a disparate, disorganized group of nation-states, unsure of whether to fight themselves over tribal boundaries or to fight outsiders over culture and economics.

So yeah, things are looking down right now for Islam - but that does not, by any stretch of the imagination, mean that things will never look up again. Go pick up a book by Reza Aslan, he explains the whole thing a lot better than I do.

[Jeugenen]

Christian America And Christian Europe Love The Christian Serbs; And Shall Never Forget That Serbs Gave The World Nicolai Tesla; And Shall Quickly Integrate Christian Serbia Into Christian Europe. Had Kosovo Not Rebelled And Seceded From Serbia, Integration Into Europe Would Have Been Impossible.

[Jeugenen]

Christian America And Christian Europe Love The Christian Serbs; And Shall Never Forget That Serbs Gave The World Nicolai Tesla; And Shall Quickly Integrate Christian Serbia Into Christian Europe. Had Kosovo Not Rebelled And Seceded From Serbia, Integration Into Europe Would Have Been Impossible.

[SW85]

If they want independence, who are you to stop them? Government is for the people, not the other way round, and if the people don't want the government, they shouldn't have it.

Sounding an awful lot like a neocon, sublime. :lol:

As for why Muslim immigration to Europe is bad -- when, throughout history, has it ever worked out well for the receiving society to take in millions of poor foreigners without precondition?

[Federal Farmer]

when, throughout history, has it ever worked out well for the receiving society to take in millions of poor foreigners without precondition?

My Native American ancestors would fully agree with you.

[BigRob]

Islamic scholarship during the Middle Ages was indispensable. My point is that soon afterward, however, it commenced on a course of steady regression, where it remains even today. :(

Neither Europe nor the Middle East could hold a candle to what the Chinese were doing long before all of this. Those crazy Asians :rolleyes: