Breaking news: Obama renouncing his church

[Stormy]

CNN contributor Roland Martin is reporting that blatant opportunist Barrack Obama has revoked his 20 year membership in the Trinity United Church of Christ.
http://conservativepolitics.today.com/2008/05/31/breaking-news-obama-revoking-membership-in-his-racist-church/

[GaiusJuliusCaesarAugustus]

a blog report.

sorta unreliable

[Here We Go]

a blog report.

sorta unreliable

I agree . . . it looks fabricated.

[Stormy]

It's on CNN right now.

[GaiusJuliusCaesarAugustus]

It's on CNN right now.

roland said at first it was unconfirmed on a blog


and....fyi...

I would have written
Breaking news: Obama throws his church under the bus. rev. wright in protective custody.

[Stormy]

roland said at first it was unconfirmed on a blog


and....fyi...

I would have written
Breaking news: Obama throws his church under the bus. rev. wright in protective custody.
LOL

Now that's funny!

[GaiusJuliusCaesarAugustus]

LOL

Now that's funny!

I know. I have a superior sense of humor....[inside joke]


dnc back on....ltr

:cool:

[top gun]

It's true... and it's good News! Senator Obama will no doubt come out tonight in a press conference and say enough is enough. He has been a member of a church that he cared deeply about. He found his way to Christ in that church.

But there has been such a repletion of statements and actions by some leaders of that church he could see it was time for his family and them to part company.

Hey let's face it... the church leaders from all sides are more than just a little Kooky this go round. Everyone should think about this when the discussion comes up that there should be no separation of church & state! :)

[Libsmasher]

Obama is a day late and a dollar short. His leaving NOW, 20 years later, at best only underlines his poor judgement, and at worse raises serious questions about his attitudes.

[GaiusJuliusCaesarAugustus]

It's true... and it's good News! Senator Obama will no doubt come out tonight in a press conference and say enough is enough. He has been a member of a church that he cared deeply about. He found his way to Christ in that church.

But there has been such a repletion of statements and actions by some leaders of that church he could see it was time for his family and them to part company.

Hey let's face it... the church leaders from all sides are more than just a little Kooky this go round. Everyone should think about this when the discussion comes up that there should be no separation of church & state! :)
one problem. obama insults our collective intelligence, however dim it may be, when he expects us to believe that all of a sudden out of nowhere his church has went bonkers-for-hate

[GaiusJuliusCaesarAugustus]

in more news----obama's white grandmother has taken out a restraining order to ensure all bus traffic stays at least 50 yards away from her person

[NO Obamanation]

It's true... and it's good News! Senator Obama will no doubt come out tonight in a press conference and say enough is enough. He has been a member of a church that he cared deeply about. He found his way to Christ in that church.

But there has been such a repletion of statements and actions by some leaders of that church he could see it was time for his family and them to part company.

Hey let's face it... the church leaders from all sides are more than just a little Kooky this go round. Everyone should think about this when the discussion comes up that there should be no separation of church & state! :)

Where is that written? seperation of church and state? Could you give me a link ;)

[NO Obamanation]

He can play it down but it will be pointed out that the people in chuch screamed in Ecstasy every time something hateful, racist, mean or anti American was said.

[NO Obamanation]

http://houseofpolitics.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=4&pictureid=12

Check out her hope!

[Andy]

It's true... and it's good News! Senator Obama will no doubt come out tonight in a press conference and say enough is enough. He has been a member of a church that he cared deeply about. He found his way to Christ in that church.

But there has been such a repletion of statements and actions by some leaders of that church he could see it was time for his family and them to part company.

Hey let's face it... the church leaders from all sides are more than just a little Kooky this go round. Everyone should think about this when the discussion comes up that there should be no separation of church & state! :)

You have got to be kidding. This is why I could never be a democrap.

Are honestly saying you believe that Obama spent 20 years, completely oblivious to the teaching of this church, until suddenly... just out of a blue, and oddly in the middle of an election year... the light came on!! :eek: His clouded vision of a loving <3 , all accepting church of god (with angels singing in the choir), was instantly torn into reality where his pastor preaches a racist anti-white pro-black, hate America message!! Oh the horror!... So now, just in a Forest Gump :) goodness sort of way, he thought to cancel his membership? Is that what you believe? :confused:

The answer is either A: he really is this completely dense, and that alone should disqualify him from being president... or B: his supporters are this dense and I personally do not want someone who appeals to a group that stupid, getting into office.

I guess I have finally gotten to the point I honestly care who is president now. I'm voting for McCain. If Obama, and his supporters, are this plain stupid... then even McCain is a step up.... as amazing as that is.

[top gun]

one problem. obama insults our collective intelligence, however dim it may be, when he expects us to believe that all of a sudden out of nowhere his church has went bonkers-for-hate

People often find parts of this that are good... and parts of that, that are not so good. It's not at all uncommon to take the good parts of something and leave the other alone.

Trinity was one of the two largest churches in Chicago. It's been well know for doing extremely good things for the community. I see the problem as being the need in politics to have to be affiliated with any church for some to think you are "religious enough".

Let's be honest. If you're a Catholic you'll hear condemnation of condoms and birth control pills which not only increases unwanted pregnancy but also sexually transmitted disease. I don't blame Catholics for not just abandoning their church.

What they do is the reasonable thing to do. They take away the spiritual good that they seek... and leave the things that they think are wrong behind.

[top gun]

Where is that written? seperation of church and state? Could you give me a link ;)

Sure, no problem...

Separation of church and state
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Constantine's Conversion, depicting the conversion of Emperor Constantine the Great to Christianity, by Peter Paul Rubens.Separation of church and state is a political and legal doctrine that government and religious institutions are to be kept separate and independent from each other.[1] The term most often refers to the combination of two principles: secularity of government (not of society) and freedom of religious exercise.[2]

The phrase separation of church and state is generally traced to a letter written by Thomas Jefferson in 1802 to the Danbury Baptists, in which he referred to the First Amendment of the United States Constitution as creating a "wall of separation" between church and state. The phrase was then quoted by the United States Supreme Court first in 1878, and then in a series of cases starting in 1947. This led to increased popular and political discussion of the concept.

The concept has since been adopted in a number of countries, to varying degrees depending on the applicable legal structures and prevalent views toward the proper role of religion in society. A similar principle of laïcité has been applied in France and Turkey, while some socially secularized countries such as Norway have maintained constitutional recognition of an official state religion. The concept parallels various other international social and political ideas, including secularism, disestablishment, religious liberty, and religious pluralism.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nE2SdF1fN4s

[NO Obamanation]

Can we make this a new thread ? I dont know how but I do not want the topic to stray from OBAMA RENOUNCES HIS CHURCH! By the way he said today he is not renouncing them he is just resigning, so apparently the hate filled place is still dear to his heart.



Sure, no problem...

Separation of church and state
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[QUOTE=top gun;40417]Constantine's Conversion, depicting the conversion of Emperor Constantine the Great to Christianity, by Peter Paul Rubens.Separation of church and state is a political and legal doctrine that government and religious institutions are to be kept separate and independent from each other.[1] The term most often refers to the combination of two principles: secularity of government (not of society) and freedom of religious exercise.[2]

Constantine is the #1 reason I could never ever call myself a Christian, and more importantly he has zero to do with our Governments separation of church and state. So other than saying he is a freak of nature, I will move on to your second part here.

The phrase separation of church and state is generally traced to a letter written by Thomas Jefferson in 1802 to the Danbury Baptists, in which he referred to the First Amendment of the United States Constitution as creating a "wall of separation" between church and state. The phrase was then quoted by the United States Supreme Court first in 1878, and then in a series of cases starting in 1947. This led to increased popular and political discussion of the concept.

I am some what surprised that you knew about the Danbury Baptist church and the letter from Thomas Jefferson. Most Libs I have asked do not know, even history teachers. They all assume it’s in the constitution some place. I am not sure though if you realize the letter Jefferson wrote the church was a reply to the letter the church wrote him.

The church wrote him expressing concern with this new constitution thing he and the government had implemented. They expressed concern that they may one day be forced to become one faith like they had in England. (The church of England) they did not want that at all. They wanted freedom of religion that they had not enjoyed in England.

In Jefferson’s reply he said “Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man & his god, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between church and state.”

Jefferson never said or implied that Church can have nothing to do with government, but that only government can not get involved in church. Actually it was the oposite of what we see today due to a court case in the 1940's.

It is no exaggeration to say that on Sundays in Washington during the administrations of Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809) and of James Madison (1809-1817) the state became the church. Within a year of his inauguration, Jefferson began attending church services in the House of Representatives. Madison followed Jefferson's example, although unlike Jefferson, who rode on horseback to church in the Capitol, Madison came in a coach and four. Worship services in the House--a practice that continued until after the Civil War--were acceptable to Jefferson because they were nondiscriminatory and voluntary. Preachers of every Protestant denomination appeared. (Catholic priests began officiating in 1826.) As early as January 1806 a female evangelist, Dorothy Ripley, delivered a camp meeting-style exhortation in the House to Jefferson, Vice President Aaron Burr, and a "crowded audience." Throughout his administration Jefferson permitted church services in executive branch buildings. The Gospel was also preached in the Supreme Court chambers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_religion_in_the_United_States

The concept has since been adopted in a number of countries, to varying degrees depending on the applicable legal structures and prevalent views toward the proper role of religion in society. A similar principle of laïcité has been applied in France and Turkey, while some socially secularized countries such as Norway have maintained constitutional recognition of an official state religion. The concept parallels various other international social and political ideas, including secularism, disestablishment, religious liberty, and religious pluralism.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nE2SdF1fN4s

Again here I am not intereseted in what other countries do. I just mean in America, but thank you for the added information.

[Andy]

Top Gun did not know about the letter, or anything. This is a common thing he does. He types in the phrase in Wiki... and then does a cut and paste. He knew nothing about any of that, nor that the Constitution doesn't have that phrase and mandate. Nor does he understand the wall of separation deals with Government leaving the church alone.

[NO Obamanation]

:eek:Top Gun did not know about the letter, or anything. This is a common thing he does. He types in the phrase in Wiki... and then does a cut and paste. He knew nothing about any of that, nor that the Constitution doesn't have that phrase and mandate. Nor does he understand the wall of separation deals with Government leaving the church alone.

I can not speak for Top Gun but I can say that I have worked for the school district for almost 20 years and I have made it my point to ask every teacher willing to get into the topic if they know where that term came from. And I can tell you that Zero knew, and most were shocked when I proved to them how it all came about. But the stock answer was usually the same, well even if its not in the constitution or bill of rights, its a good idea. When you have a 7th grade American History teacher who has no clue where that term came from yet says its still a good idea when you prove the facts, all I can say is :eek:

[top gun]

You have got to be kidding. This is why I could never be a democrap.

Are honestly saying you believe that Obama spent 20 years, completely oblivious to the teaching of this church, until suddenly... just out of a blue, and oddly in the middle of an election year... the light came on!! :eek: His clouded vision of a loving <3 , all accepting church of god (with angels singing in the choir), was instantly torn into reality where his pastor preaches a racist anti-white pro-black, hate America message!! Oh the horror!... So now, just in a Forest Gump :) goodness sort of way, he thought to cancel his membership? Is that what you believe? :confused:

The answer is either A: he really is this completely dense, and that alone should disqualify him from being president... or B: his supporters are this dense and I personally do not want someone who appeals to a group that stupid, getting into office.

I guess I have finally gotten to the point I honestly care who is president now. I'm voting for McCain. If Obama, and his supporters, are this plain stupid... then even McCain is a step up.... as amazing as that is.

I think you should vote for McSame ANDY. You and McSame and Hagee and Parsley can all get together and try and console one another after the election. ;)

[NO Obamanation]

I think you should vote for McSame ANDY. You and McSame and Hagee and Parsley can all get together and try and console one another after the election. ;)


You are so funny. You defend Obama's church fully (as does Obama)
You defend that he sat there for 20 years lapping up this trash, and he exposed his little girls to it.

But McCain stood next to two weird pastors and you can not let that go. He never went to their churches, he never was a member of their churches, and he got their endorsement because he thinks he needs it since Christians mostly can’t stand his freaking guts. The moment it came out these guys are whack jobs he dumped them and their endorsement.

It has taken months of trash talk coming out of Trinity church before Obama (distanced himself) from them. and still he defends them for the most part.

you insist on making a big deal that McCain got endorsed by two nuts but you say its not news of the black panthers endorse Obama, or he has two 20 year friends who are racist pastor/priests.

Your logic is partisan :)

[top gun]

NO Obamanation;40448]Can we make this a new thread ? I dont know how but I do not want the topic to stray from OBAMA RENOUNCES HIS CHURCH! By the way he said today he is not renouncing them he is just resigning, so apparently the hate filled place is still dear to his heart.

Do you not find it at all reveling that you ask a specific question in a particular thread... and then act like it's just amazing you that the answer might change to course of that thread. Possible solution: DON'T ASK THE QUESTION if you don't really want to go there... :)

Sure, no problem...

Separation of church and state
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[QUOTE]Constantine is the #1 reason I could never ever call myself a Christian, and more importantly he has zero to do with our Governments separation of church and state. So other than saying he is a freak of nature, I will move on to your second part here.

I am some what surprised that you knew about the Danbury Baptist church and the letter from Thomas Jefferson. Most Libs I have asked do not know, even history teachers. They all assume it’s in the constitution some place. I am not sure though if you realize the letter Jefferson wrote the church was a reply to the letter the church wrote him.

The church wrote him expressing concern with this new constitution thing he and the government had implemented. They expressed concern that they may one day be forced to become one faith like they had in England. (The church of England) they did not want that at all. They wanted freedom of religion that they had not enjoyed in England.

In Jefferson’s reply he said “Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man & his god, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between church and state.”

Jefferson never said or implied that Church can have nothing to do with government, but that only government can not get involved in church. Actually it was the oposite of what we see today due to a court case in the 1940's.

It is no exaggeration to say that on Sundays in Washington during the administrations of Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809) and of James Madison (1809-1817) the state became the church. Within a year of his inauguration, Jefferson began attending church services in the House of Representatives. Madison followed Jefferson's example, although unlike Jefferson, who rode on horseback to church in the Capitol, Madison came in a coach and four. Worship services in the House--a practice that continued until after the Civil War--were acceptable to Jefferson because they were nondiscriminatory and voluntary. Preachers of every Protestant denomination appeared. (Catholic priests began officiating in 1826.) As early as January 1806 a female evangelist, Dorothy Ripley, delivered a camp meeting-style exhortation in the House to Jefferson, Vice President Aaron Burr, and a "crowded audience." Throughout his administration Jefferson permitted church services in executive branch buildings. The Gospel was also preached in the Supreme Court chambers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_religion_in_the_United_States

Again here I am not intereseted in what other countries do. I just mean in America, but thank you for the added information.

That's all lovely and all but as you stray from the obvious. The point is not/was not that the Founding Fathers were not religious men. The point is that Thomas Jefferson himself, a Founding Father, had wrote and talked about early & often the need for the separation of church & state here in the United States.

People sometimes have selective amnesia about what happened in England and why so many people came to America in the first place.

The Church of England had so much influence, was so inappropriately intertwined with government... THAT IT ACTUALLY WAS THE GOVERNMENT!

Our Founding Fathers wanted this to never happen here. Freedom of religion is also freedom FROM religion.

[COLOR="DarkRed"]i.e.
Thomas Jefferson created his own version of the gospels; he was uncomfortable with any reference to miracles, so with two copies of the New Testament, he cut and pasted them together, excising all references to miracles, from turning water to wine, to the resurrection.

Thomas Paine was a pamphleteer whose manifestoes encouraged the faltering spirits of the country and aided materially in winning the War of Independence. But he was a Deist:

I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish Church, by the Roman Church, by the Greek Church, by the Turkish Church, by the Protestant Church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church. (Richard Emery Roberts, ed. "Excerpts from The Age of Reason". Selected Writings of Thomas Paine. New York: Everbody's Vacation Publishing Co., 1945, p. 362)
Regarding the New Testament, he wrote that:
I hold [it] to be fabulous and have shown [it] to be false... (Roberts, p. 375)

John Adams, the second U.S. President rejected the Trinity, the deity of Christ, and became a Unitarian. It was during Adams' presidency that the Senate ratified the Treaty of Peace and Friendship with Tripoli, which states in Article XI that:

As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion - as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen, - and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arrising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries. (Charles I. Bevans, ed. Treaties and Other International Agreements of the United States of America 1776-1949. Vol. 11: Philippines-United Arab Republic. Washington D.C.: Department of State Publications, 1974, p. 1072).

Benjamin Franklin, the delegate to the Continental Congress and the Constitutional Convention. He has frequently been used as a source for positive "God" talk. It is often noted that Franklin made a motion at the Constitutional convention that they should bring in a clergyman to pray for their deliberations:

It is rarely noted that Franklin presented his motion after "four or five weeks" of deliberation, during which they had never once opened in prayer. More significantly, it is never mentioned that Franklin's motion was voted down! Fine Christians, these founding fathers. Furthermore, the context is usually ignored, too. He made the motion during an especially trying week of serious disagreement, when the convention was in danger of breaking up. Cathrine Drinker Bowen comments:

About March 1, 1790, he wrote the following in a letter to Ezra Stiles, president of Yale, who had asked him his views on religion. His answer would indicate that he remained a Deist, not a Christian, to the end:

As to Jesus of Nazareth, my Opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the System of Morals and his Religion, as he left them to us, the best the world ever saw or is likely to see; but I apprehend it has received various corrupt changes, and I have, with most of the present Dissenters in England, some Doubts as to his divinity; tho' it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and I think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an Opportunity of knowing the Truth with less Trouble...." (Carl Van Doren. Benjamin Franklin. New York: The Viking Press, 1938, p. 777.)

[Andy]

I think you should vote for McSame ANDY. You and McSame and Hagee and Parsley can all get together and try and console one another after the election. ;)

Clearly. Anyone who proclaims some lame idea they spent 20 years in church and was completely ignorant of what was taught, and then has a bunch of idiots thinking it's true... that's clearly not where I want my vote going. That's plain ignorance. Join the club man, you fit in. It's not for me, that's for sure.

[NO Obamanation]

Can you make this a new thread? then we can argue about it Please :p

[top gun]

Clearly. Anyone who proclaims some lame idea they spent 20 years in church and was completely ignorant of what was taught, and then has a bunch of idiots thinking it's true... that's clearly not where I want my vote going. That's plain ignorance. Join the club man, you fit in. It's not for me, that's for sure.

I assume the Senator was focused on his relationship with Jesus Christ and the good through Christ that can be done... and not the theatrics of some preacher.

That whole gotta be like the preacher stuff is a long proselytized Republican position not a Democratic one.

Everything is working out the way it should be... McSame and Senator Obama. There's not long to go. :)

[top gun]

Can you make this a new thread? then we can argue about it Please :p

You asked a question and I answered it with great depth and documentation. I think that's a case closed on that one. ;)

[Andy]

I assume the Senator was focused on his relationship with Jesus Christ and the good through Christ that can be done... and not the theatrics of some preacher.

That whole gotta be like the preacher stuff is a long proselytized Republican position not a Democratic one.

Everything is working out the way it should be... McSame and Senator Obama. There's not long to go. :)

Oh of course. Which is why he renounced his church... In order to focus on Jesus instead of the preacher... which is why he waited 20 years, till the middle of an election year, in order to focus on Jesus instead of the preach. How random the timing was to start focusing on Christ....

Interesting... I suppose your theory of Church is you go just to ignore everything preached? That at least fits with your willful ignorance here. I wonder if a KKK member would be received as well claiming they just went to the meetings, to support goodness of white people, but ignored all that 'every other race sucks' talk?

[NO Obamanation]

You asked a question and I answered it with great depth and documentation. I think that's a case closed on that one. ;)


I disagree totally with you, make our posts go to another forum and we can disagree some more ;)


Back to Obama,

He left the church too late; he should have done it 18 years ago. He has to agree with all of that horrible stuff or he wouldn’t have stayed in the church.

His kids should seek counseling for the indoctrination they have received by the church. Crazy idiots at his church who hate our country have effected his mind, his wife’s mind and their poor kids minds. :eek:






http://houseofpolitics.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=4&pictureid=12

Check out her hope!

[top gun]

NO Obamanation;40467]You are so funny. You defend Obama's church fully (as does Obama)
You defend that he sat there for 20 years lapping up this trash, and he exposed his little girls to it.

You must be talking to someone else :). I think it's frickin' ridiculous 50% of everything that comes out of any church. People TRY to go to church to be with a fellowship and spiritually study a faith... in this case Christianity and Jesus Christ.

And please don't go down the "his little girls road". Senator Obama has beautiful, intelligent, protected, well adjusted daughters. He and is wife would have it no other way. They are absolutely wonderful parents! I have yet to see any video of Senator Obama & his family in the pews when Wright was really on a tangant... and neither have you.

But McCain stood next to two weird pastors and you can not let that go. He never went to their churches, he never was a member of their churches, and he got their endorsement because he thinks he needs it since Christians mostly can’t stand his freaking guts. The moment it came out these guys are whack jobs he dumped them and their endorsement.

I think I just threw up in my mouth a little bit :). You are so full of it it's just hilarious. I could care less about John McSame's pastor problems. The only reason they got brought into this is because your insane swift boat side started the "big deal" over some preacher in Senator Obama's church. But yet again you play the victim card. :(

McSame didn't go the the Church because he's a frickin' hypocrite and a Flip Flopper on religion just like everything else. But he did COURT... more like beg Hagee to endorse him for over a year. It was kinda a Brokeback Mountain clergy style affair.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JRb8ZRkPWM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xuugq7fito

It has taken months of trash talk coming out of Trinity church before Obama (distanced himself) from them. and still he defends them for the most part.

you insist on making a big deal that McCain got endorsed by two nuts but you say its not news of the black panthers endorse Obama, or he has two 20 year friends who are racist pastor/priests.

Your logic is partisan

I know you don't understand but a few crazy sermons don't take away other good things that church... any church... has done. Being calm is what Senator Obama is all about. If you were looking for him to create a big scene that wasn't about to happen.

The KKK publicly endorsed Ron Paul. I'm sure we could find some off color weirdo group that endorses every single candidate for some self serving reason. Doesn't mean one single thing about any candidate.

Keep takin' shots... but Senator Obama is just simply a good family man.

[NO Obamanation]

You must be talking to someone else :). I think it's frickin' ridiculous 50% of everything that comes out of any church. People TRY to go to church to be with a fellowship and spiritually study a faith... in this case Christianity and Jesus Christ.

And please don't go down the "his little girls road". Senator Obama has beautiful, intelligent, protected, well adjusted daughters. He and is wife would have it no other way. They are absolutely wonderful parents! I have yet to see any video of Senator Obama & his family in the pews when Wright was really on a tangant... and neither have you.



I think I just threw up in my mouth a little bit :). You are so full of it it's just hilarious. I could care less about John McSame's pastor problems. The only reason they got brought into this is because your insane swift boat side started the "big deal" over some preacher in Senator Obama's church. But yet again you play the victim card. :(

McSame didn't go the the Church because he's a frickin' hypocrite and a Flip Flopper on religion just like everything else. But he did COURT... more like beg Hagee to endorse him for over a year. It was kinda a Brokeback Mountain clergy style affair.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JRb8ZRkPWM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xuugq7fito



I know you don't understand but a few crazy sermons don't take away other good things that church... any church... has done. Being calm is what Senator Obama is all about. If you were looking for him to create a big scene that wasn't about to happen.

The KKK publicly endorsed Ron Paul. I'm sure we could find some off color weirdo group that endorses every single candidate for some self serving reason. Doesn't mean one single thing about any candidate.

Keep takin' shots... but Senator Obama is just simply a good family man.

I disagree with every thing especially the part about Michelle Obama. I think they are both poor excuses for human beings. But there is still a chance for their kids.


didnt KKK endorse McCain? we talked about that a couple of weeks ago, how many people can one group endorse?

[outspoken]

So let me get this straight, if Mc Cain was in the KKK for the past 20 years, all he'd have to do is resign and all is cool. Obama should be disqualified on face value, he's a racist and a bigot, that's self evident.

[NO Obamanation]

So let me get this straight, if Mc Cain was in the KKK for the past 20 years, all he'd have to do is resign and all is cool. Obama should be disqualified on face value, he's a racist and a bigot, that's self evident.

Welcome to the boards outspoken :)


I agree with your post. But lets take it further and say McCain was in the KKK for 20 years and when it was exposed, he defended the KKK and continued being a member ............ for months, then said ok I am leaving the KKK but I wish them the best and I am only doing this because every time they speak it trasfers on to me.. never actually saying the KKK was wrong in their thinking.

and then telling the American voting public, I never really was listening when they were talking, are they really that racist? I had not noticed. well it never rubbed off on me except a few phrases I have let slip out. Please ignore them all....

[Andy]

Welcome to the boards outspoken :)


I agree with your post. But lets take it further and say McCain was in the KKK for 20 years and when it was exposed, he defended the KKK and continued being a member ............ for months, then said ok I am leaving the KKK but I wish them the best and I am only doing this because every time they speak it trasfers on to me.. never actually saying the KKK was wrong in their thinking.

and then telling the American voting public, I never really was listening when they were talking, are they really that racist? I had not noticed. well it never rubbed off on me except a few phrases I have let slip out. Please ignore them all....

Then having members of his fan club defend Obama's actions on forums like this, showing what type of people they are.

[NO Obamanation]

Then having members of his fan club defend Obama's actions on forums like this, showing what type of people they are.

I think the people who support Obama, here and in general do not feel that he is racist. Some, many do not feel that the church is racist either.


My boss is a big Obama fan, and when we talked about the racist stuff in the church he said he felt it was differnt when a minority said things that could be called racist. I didnt agree with him, and he is a very nice person but I guess that is how some people see it.

I think his church is horrible and that children attend and get this horrible message bothers me greatly, but that is only one small aspect of my problems with Obama.

His voting record is equally offending to me, so is his stand on almost every issue.

[pocketfullofshells]

So let me get this straight, if Mc Cain was in the KKK for the past 20 years, all he'd have to do is resign and all is cool. Obama should be disqualified on face value, he's a racist and a bigot, that's self evident.

Yes Yes we all know when Obama Gets in the white house, he is going to turn into Malcolm X. You people all need lives. You act like its going to be Nixon in the White House again, *****ing about the Jews ...only now ...it will be those Fing white people need to be stoped grrrr .

And Don't Forget, John McCain Hates Catholics, and thinks God Sent Hilter to kill the Jews , and America was Founded to Attack Islam....

[pocketfullofshells]

I think the people who support Obama, here and in general do not feel that he is racist. Some, many do not feel that the church is racist either.


My boss is a big Obama fan, and when we talked about the racist stuff in the church he said he felt it was differnt when a minority said things that could be called racist. I didnt agree with him, and he is a very nice person but I guess that is how some people see it.

I think his church is horrible and that children attend and get this horrible message bothers me greatly, but that is only one small aspect of my problems with Obama.

His voting record is equally offending to me, so is his stand on almost every issue.

You know How many Churches out there say things that Bother me Greatly? The gay bashing, the attacks on Other Religions, the attacks on basic Science and History. ( sorry folks humans did not hang out with Dinosaurs) , insane ideas about Harry Potter books making kids have Seizures, Ideas that the earth was given to man, and we can do what we want with it ( aka screw stopping pollution, and kill as many species as we want, so long as it serves man) My Friends Church Said that anyone who did not believe was a Idiot...This when the Pasture/Priest or what have you, knew she was bring someone new who wanted to give it a try...oddly it did not go over well and she never went back as she was basically insulted by the church and singled out even...when tyring to be open to them. Churches that say woman's place in the kitchen, Woman are to serve the man, woman can't hold positions of Authority, Churches that Believe we should have the Death Penalty because it is just. (I thought Jesus may not agree what with that whole killed his so called Crimes)

Also how can you like Clinton, and then stand here and say you hate Obama on almost every issue? They are the same or just barely off on most issues.


And again I note, I am not even saying I am voting for Obama, and Supported Biden and Edwards, and am looking for the Independence party to put Bloomburg or someone on the ballot still of to see who Gets the VP nod before I decided to vote for, or do more for a candidate. And no , its not likey Ventura will Run for VP, but it is very close to him going for US Senate. Ventura or Dean Barkley will announce shortly that one of them is running . Barkley was in the US Senate for a short time to fill in after Wellstone Died.

[outspoken]

pocketfullofshellsYes Yes we all know when Obama Gets in the white house, he is going to turn into Malcolm X. That's a little bit of an exaggeration don't ya think? I'm saying the man is a racist and bigot based on the obvious, come on, let's be half sensible here.

NO Obamanation Welcome to the boards outspoken Howdy

[NO Obamanation]

You know How many Churches out there say things that Bother me Greatly? The gay bashing, the attacks on Other Religions, the attacks on basic Science and History. ( sorry folks humans did not hang out with Dinosaurs) , insane ideas about Harry Potter books making kids have Seizures, Ideas that the earth was given to man, and we can do what we want with it ( aka screw stopping pollution, and kill as many species as we want, so long as it serves man) My Friends Church Said that anyone who did not believe was a Idiot...This when the Pasture/Priest or what have you, knew she was bring someone new who wanted to give it a try...oddly it did not go over well and she never went back as she was basically insulted by the church and singled out even...when tyring to be open to them. Churches that say woman's place in the kitchen, Woman are to serve the man, woman can't hold positions of Authority, Churches that Believe we should have the Death Penalty because it is just. (I thought Jesus may not agree what with that whole killed his so called Crimes)

Also how can you like Clinton, and then stand here and say you hate Obama on almost every issue? They are the same or just barely off on most issues.


And again I note, I am not even saying I am voting for Obama, and Supported Biden and Edwards, and am looking for the Independence party to put Bloomburg or someone on the ballot still of to see who Gets the VP nod before I decided to vote for, or do more for a candidate. And no , its not likey Ventura will Run for VP, but it is very close to him going for US Senate. Ventura or Dean Barkley will announce shortly that one of them is running . Barkley was in the US Senate for a short time to fill in after Wellstone Died.

I do not "like" Clinton. I just hate her less than I hate John McCain. And I hate John McCain A LOT less than I hate Obama.

I never liked or disliked the Clintons when they were in office. I never voted for Mr. Clinton in either election. One year I voted for Ralph Nader and another I voted for Mickey Mouse. But I admit I think she is getting a raw deal and I do tend to favor the underdog. But really I don't like her I just hate her less than the others.


And again you are right that allot of and maybe most churches have problems, but I really do think the stuff what went on in this particular church is beyond the norm. Not just the hating white people, the anti American rhetoric. And that Obama insists they never talked like this when he was there. Yet how is that possible and how can I possibly believe him.

[Foolosophy]

I do not "like" Clinton. I just hate her less than I hate John McCain. And I hate John McCain A LOT less than I hate Obama.



Well if the USA was a real democracy rather than a corrupt Plutocratic Oligarchy YOU as a citizen may be able to have a REAL choice when voting.

Rather than a defacto vote that simply ratifies the staus quo. (notice how you cant rally change anything irrespective of WHO actually wins office?)

How much money does an individual need to run for office again?

:eek:GOD:eek:BLESS:eek:AMERICA:eek:

[NO Obamanation]

Well if the USA was a real democracy rather than a corrupt Plutocratic Oligarchy YOU as a citizen may be able to have a REAL choice when voting.

Rather than a defacto vote that simply ratifies the staus quo. (notice how you cant rally change anything irrespective of WHO actually wins office?)

How much money does an individual need to run for office again?

:eek:GOD:eek:BLESS:eek:AMERICA:eek:

Well...I agree that since I have been a voter I have not liked any of the choices, and maybe it’s worth looking for a new way of doing things.

How much does it cost to run for office? Probably a whole lot. But one thing very positive I can say about Obama. He brings something to the table no one has ever done before.

Now we know anyone can really and seriously run. He had literally no name recognition. He had no money but people believed in him and backed him and he is probably going to be the next president, or at least a good second. He did this without being rich or spending to many years doing favors for high high up people. So he did something we all wondered if it could even be done. And apparently it can. That is a great contribution.

[pocketfullofshells]

I do not "like" Clinton. I just hate her less than I hate John McCain. And I hate John McCain A LOT less than I hate Obama.

I never liked or disliked the Clintons when they were in office. I never voted for Mr. Clinton in either election. One year I voted for Ralph Nader and another I voted for Mickey Mouse. But I admit I think she is getting a raw deal and I do tend to favor the underdog. But really I don't like her I just hate her less than the others.


And again you are right that allot of and maybe most churches have problems, but I really do think the stuff what went on in this particular church is beyond the norm. Not just the hating white people, the anti American rhetoric. And that Obama insists they never talked like this when he was there. Yet how is that possible and how can I possibly believe him.

I don't know what Rhetoric you mean, but some of what I know people have talked about, was taken when he was quoting what someone else had said, and thus has been quoted as he said it himself, as if it was his own idea.
And do you know How often I can called UnAmerican ...alot...and you know what most of the time it is for? Its becuse I attack America for being to often now a pathetic shell of what it could be. I find that those who truly belive how great American can be, or should be, are often held as UnAmerican...becuse we have even higher standards for how good we could be. And I wounder how much of this could be the same. I don't sit and pour over 20 years of what one man at a church says looking for nuggets that I can use to hate someone else for. If wounder how many people , even more so on the right these days, would be left if I took out the people who can be tied to church leaders who said something dumb. Look at Pat Robertson, John Hagee, Rod Parsley, Ted Haggard, Even Billy Gram was found telling Nixon Jews had a "Stranglehold" on the Media and "This stranglehold has got to be broken or the country's going down the drain. He of course claimed he did not recall saying what was on the tape, and that it did not reflect his views ( odd given that they came out of his mouth...Devil made him say it? ) But yes the anti Obama people have found some nuggets to use against him, and even though they can not point out any time where Obama has ever even hinted at holding views anything close to is, use it as some way to brand him a racist. Fine, then I will just label all Christians as Anti Semitic , Islam bashing, Promoting attacks on Gays, being closet gays himself on Meth, who believe that Katrina happened because God was mad at New Orleans. If Obama is to be held to account for things said, when when Obama most likely was not even at the church Listening. Then why cant I cast that same brush over every Christan, and there are millions, who have followed these leaders, and most still do even after there comments.

Do we even know who Clinton's Preacher is? Maybe we should dig into that next, or maybe she does not have one, and we can brand her a Godless Heathen. Maybe we can find out more worthless bull that will not change anything about if our Health Care system gets fixed. If we have the Right Iraq Policy, if our education system gets to a point where our kids are ready for the new economies , or even the old one. Who cares if the war on terror takes away our rights are stripped away to fight terror. None of that will matter as long as we know, a half black half white guy who never said a racist thing himself did not get into office because of what someone else said when he may not have been there....

[NO Obamanation]

I don't know what Rhetoric you mean, but some of what I know people have talked about, was taken when he was quoting what someone else had said, and thus has been quoted as he said it himself, as if it was his own idea.

He was not quoting anyone when he said God Damn America

the chickens coming home to roost he was quoting malcom x. the parts before that he SAID he was quoting Ambassador Peck. But did you ever listen to what Ambassador Peck actually said? it was nothing like Mr. Wrights sermon.

I think he was again quoting himself when he said US KKK of A
and when he said American made the AIDs virus to kill people of color.

[NO Obamanation]

oh crud, I remember now He said it was in the bible when he said God Damn America, he said its in the bible.

So I guess he was quoting the bible when he said God Damn America

[pocketfullofshells]

oh crud, I remember now He said it was in the bible when he said God Damn America, he said its in the bible.

So I guess he was quoting the bible when he said God Damn America

Do you know the context of why he said it?

also the quote I was thinking about I believe had something to do with 9-11 that he was quoting what someone else had said. But like I said, I don't care that much so I did not really pay attention to who or any of that.

Maybe Obama can not only Denounce what was said, maybe he should go and execute him for us all, just to prove he is not a Secret Black power anti American....

[NO Obamanation]

Do you know the context of why he said it?

also the quote I was thinking about I believe had something to do with 9-11 that he was quoting what someone else had said. But like I said, I don't care that much so I did not really pay attention to who or any of that.

Maybe Obama can not only Denounce what was said, maybe he should go and execute him for us all, just to prove he is not a Secret Black power anti American....

The context was we just got hit by 911 and every one was wondering why. He was giving his reason for why.


No one wants anyone executed.

I would be just as offended if any politician democrat or republican was in a white surpremist group. Probably La Rasa too. I think if the republican nominee was in a church for a long period of time that said anti black or anti jewish things you would find it worth talking about.

If Mr. Obama was in that church and stayed a year or two and moved on. (NOT during an election) but just in his life. I do not think it would be news worthy today. Oprah was in that same church, for a couple of years and left. No one is calling her racist or saying she has anti white views. Because she walked away after getting a feel for what was going on there.

There is a rumor going around, now its just a rumor so there is no way of knowing if its true or not.

but its said there is a tape of Mrs. Obama on the stage at Trinity giving a speech on "whitie" if this turns out to be true and we see a video of her talking bad about white people. Will that effect your opinions of them?

[pocketfullofshells]

The context was we just got hit by 911 and every one was wondering why. He was giving his reason for why.


No one wants anyone executed.

I would be just as offended if any politician democrat or republican was in a white surpremist group. Probably La Rasa too. I think if the republican nominee was in a church for a long period of time that said anti black or anti jewish things you would find it worth talking about.

If Mr. Obama was in that church and stayed a year or two and moved on. (NOT during an election) but just in his life. I do not think it would be news worthy today. Oprah was in that same church, for a couple of years and left. No one is calling her racist or saying she has anti white views. Because she walked away after getting a feel for what was going on there.

There is a rumor going around, now its just a rumor so there is no way of knowing if its true or not.

but its said there is a tape of Mrs. Obama on the stage at Trinity giving a speech on "whitie" if this turns out to be true and we see a video of her talking bad about white people. Will that effect your opinions of them?

like I said, if someone shows him saying it, then I take alot more issue with it. If someone says it at a event he is not even at, then who cares?

As of now, no one has shown me a damn thing that shows he belives anything like what was said by others, or said anything. and if there was a tape out there of it, it would be out. File that tape with the Secretly a Muslim bull crap that dumb anti oboma people throw out there on the net becuse they dont have a anything good to use on him.

[top gun]

I disagree with every thing especially the part about Michelle Obama. I think they are both poor excuses for human beings. But there is still a chance for their kids.


didnt KKK endorse McCain? we talked about that a couple of weeks ago, how many people can one group endorse?

That's very sad. I see no reason to attack Mrs. Obama and her raising of her girls. She's an absolutely wonderful mother. Unlike the usual Republican candidate with... divorces just absolutely all over the place... Michelle Obama & Senator Obama are in a very loving committed relationship.

Their two little girls are adorable. It will be great fun watching them grow up in the White House.

[outspoken]

top gunI see no reason to attack Mrs. Obama I do, she had a Freudian slip when she said she was proud of this country for the first time in her life.(which coincides with the rhetoric that's been coming from her church) If she and her husband are so dissatisfied and disgraced by this country, they have no business in the oval office or even running for the presidency. Obama should be disqualified period, he's a racist, a liar and a bigot, just like the ministers of the church he‘s been attending for the last 20 years..

[SW85]

The big story here is that, whatever protestations Obama makes about how he transcends crappy old divisive politics, he is still a Chicago machine politican of questionable character willing to throw his close friends under the bus for short-term political expediency.

[Popeye]

top gunI do, she had a Freudian slip when she said she was proud of this country for the first time in her life.(which coincides with the rhetoric that's been coming from her church) If she and her husband are so dissatisfied and disgraced by this country, they have no business in the oval office or even running for the presidency. Obama should be disqualified period, he's a racist, a liar and a bigot, just like the ministers of the church he‘s been attending for the last 20 years..

Then vote for McCain. He and his Nazi loving pastors Hagee and Parsley will be glad to have you.

[top gun]

top gunI do, she had a Freudian slip when she said she was proud of this country for the first time in her life.(which coincides with the rhetoric that's been coming from her church) If she and her husband are so dissatisfied and disgraced by this country, they have no business in the oval office or even running for the presidency. Obama should be disqualified period, he's a racist, a liar and a bigot, just like the ministers of the church he‘s been attending for the last 20 years..

Well of course none of that is true... (for the record Mrs. Obama gave that particular speech two times that night. The way it was written and the way she delivered it correctly the one time was... for the first time I'm really proud... (really changes the overall context). She made a mistake and missed one word one out of two times. My God McCain says were down below pre surge troop levels which could not be further from the truth... and he's sticking to his statement even though everybody even the military itself has reported that's just blatantly untrue.

But regardless of any of that... we were talking about someone being a good mother?

Can anyone present just one Children's Services report... or one person on the record anywhere in the whole wide world that personally knows Michelle Obama that has ever said she was not a good parent?

Of course not.

We really need to step back just a bit and not drag the children into the fact someone likes or dislikes any candidate. I wouldn't say John McCain is a bad parent just because he divorced his children's mother. I have no idea how that played out.

The only legitimate reason to bring in someones parenting skills is if A) there's been some kind of a legitimate investigation by some authority or B) like in the case of Rudy Giuliani the kids themselves are coming out against their parent (the candidate).

[outspoken]

Originally Posted by outspoken
I do, she had a Freudian slip when she said she was proud of this country for the first time in her life.(which coincides with the rhetoric that's been coming from her church)
top gunWell of course none of that is true Sure it is, she even admitted it.

PopeyeThen vote for McCainTwo wrongs don't make a right, what does this have to do with the bigotry and racism displayed by the Obama camp anyway?


SW85he is still a Chicago machine politican of questionable character willing to throw his close friends under the bus for short-term political expediency. I wondered about that also, he sure didn't hesitate to abandon his freinds of the past 20 years, weird.

[Andy]

Yes Yes we all know when Obama Gets in the white house, he is going to turn into Malcolm X. You people all need lives. You act like its going to be Nixon in the White House again, *****ing about the Jews ...only now ...it will be those Fing white people need to be stoped grrrr .

And Don't Forget, John McCain Hates Catholics, and thinks God Sent Hilter to kill the Jews , and America was Founded to Attack Islam....

Well... honestly, I remember when people said Bill Clinton was a crazy nut and had no morals and would pretty much do whatever he felt like doing in office... and boy that was the truth then. The shear number of scandals during his two terms, was a scandal in itself.

So... yeah I think Obama has shown an incredible lack of character in the why he has tried to convince some that he spent 20 years in a church teaching anti-white, pro-black, hate America messages, and now suddenly he shockingly finds out it's a hate group and revokes his membership. Can I trust a person like that? No. Can I trust a person like that whose members believe a fruity story like that? No.

So, can't vote for him anymore. Someone that stupid, or someone that appeals to people that stupid, shouldn't be in office.

[Popeye]

Two wrongs don't make a right, what does this have to do with the bigotry and racism displayed by the Obama camp anyway?




Considering you were doing some rather flagrant Obama bashing, I took you for a Republican, if I'm incorrect, you have my apologies. If I'm not incorrect, you have my sympathies.

I haven't seen any bigotry or racism coming from the Obama camp, perhaps you could enlighten me. If you are referring to Trinity church, keep in mind, the church and the Obama campaign are two separate entities.

By attacking Obama for things that were said by others in his former church, all you are doing is subscribing to the gotcha politics of guilt by association. Not much to base a cogent argument on.

[NO Obamanation]

Writing in your book that you agree about white men’s greed, is a racist statement

talking about typical white people. Well it feels racist to some white people, many white people.

In his other book he referred to white people as crackers. My daddy does that and my daddy has issues with racism. We battle back and fourth on that. If I can say my own father has racist tendency’s it shouldn’t be wrong to say Obama has them too, when they use the same words to refer to white people.

[outspoken]

Popeyeyou were doing some rather flagrant Obama bashing,If telling the truth is "bashing" then so be it.

I took you for a RepublicanWhy? Because I see what is? I'm a Bush bashing independant ex democrat.

the church and the Obama campaign are two separate entitiesHow's that? How can one separate himself from his house of worship? If it where favorable he would be announcing it as an asset. I stand behind my faith and my church, it defines me, it's where I affirm my morality and religious beliefs, I fail to see how I could suddenly disassociate with something that I spent my life affirming.

By attacking Obama for things that were said by others in his former church, all you are doing is subscribing to the gotcha politics of guilt by association.Former? you mean as of yesterday? Like I said, somtimes the truth is self evident, you can describe it however you wish,(gotcha politics, ect) it is still the truth. Yes, we are associated (guilty or not) with our faith and our church, how can we not be.

[pocketfullofshells]

Well... honestly, I remember when people said Bill Clinton was a crazy nut and had no morals and would pretty much do whatever he felt like doing in office... and boy that was the truth then. The shear number of scandals during his two terms, was a scandal in itself.

So... yeah I think Obama has shown an incredible lack of character in the why he has tried to convince some that he spent 20 years in a church teaching anti-white, pro-black, hate America messages, and now suddenly he shockingly finds out it's a hate group and revokes his membership. Can I trust a person like that? No. Can I trust a person like that whose members believe a fruity story like that? No.

So, can't vote for him anymore. Someone that stupid, or someone that appeals to people that stupid, shouldn't be in office.

Bla bla bla Clinton was sooo horrible. Every bad thing Clinton did does not add up to the 3 or 4rth worse thing Bush CO has done by itself. And I did not like Clinton much.

But yea, go ahead don't vote for him. And enjoy a few more years of Republican rule...all because of what someone else said, not a single word that Obama himself has said. Not because you don't agree with his Policy, but no rather because what someone at His Church Said. If McCain screws up, and the econ goes even worse and Iraq just ends up being 4 more years of the same or worse....I hope you will be happy that its because of what someone at his Church said.


But then again at least I would hope all you I hate Obama people because of his Church will of course not Vote for McCain as well unless you hate Catholics or something.....

All this does make me wounder where the Obama supporters on this board are as I seem to be doing a lot of work defending a guy I am not even supporting right now.

[NO Obamanation]

Bla bla bla Clinton was sooo horrible. Every bad thing Clinton did does not add up to the 3 or 4rth worse thing Bush CO has done by itself. And I did not like Clinton much.

But yea, go ahead don't vote for him. And enjoy a few more years of Republican rule...all because of what someone else said, not a single word that Obama himself has said. Not because you don't agree with his Policy, but no rather because what someone at His Church Said. If McCain screws up, and the econ goes even worse and Iraq just ends up being 4 more years of the same or worse....I hope you will be happy that its because of what someone at his Church said.


But then again at least I would hope all you I hate Obama people because of his Church will of course not Vote for McCain as well unless you hate Catholics or something.....

All this does make me wounder where the Obama supporters on this board are as I seem to be doing a lot of work defending a guy I am not even supporting right now.

Who are you supporting? I thought you were an obama bot

[Here We Go]

All this does make me wounder where the Obama supporters on this board are as I seem to be doing a lot of work defending a guy I am not even supporting right now.

I am a cracker and (at this point in time) I'm voting for Obama. http://foolstown.com/sm/kos.gif

[NO Obamanation]

I am a cracker and (at this point in time) I'm voting for Obama. http://foolstown.com/sm/kos.gif

at this point and time?

[Here We Go]

at this point and time?

I never totally commit until the last moment. As crazy as this election process is, you never know what's going to happen next. Stay tuned . . .

[NO Obamanation]

I never totally commit until the last moment. As crazy as this election process is, you never know what's going to happen next. Stay tuned . . .

:) I will

[top gun]

outspoken;40679]Originally Posted by outspoken
I do, she had a Freudian slip when she said she was proud of this country for the first time in her life.(which coincides with the rhetoric that's been coming from her church)
top gun Sure it is, she even admitted it.

Mrs. Obama misspoke. She gave that speech twice that night and one time she left out the word "really". Missing the world "really" really does change the context :) but that's not really the point.

It's got nothing to do with any church. It's got nothing to do with being or not being patriotic or racism. Everyone comes from where they come from. A person that comes up extremely poor for instance won't have the same outlook as someone who's always been wealthy. The Obama's are Black Americans. They have their own perspective.

Perspective is understanding how someone has been treated. Racism is doing things that hurt or are unfair to another race. The Obama's have never even been accused of doing that. the Senator's whole history is just plain helping everyone in need.

But the thing that counts isn't that they're Black or White. The thing that matters is they are a good loving family. They're both known as highly intelligent compassionate PEOPLE... Americans that have worked their own way up.

I'm White and I'm very proud Mrs. Obama's husband will tonight get the delegates he needs to be the nominee and the next President of The United States.

Michelle: I've always been proud of U.S.
PRIDE IN AMERICA | No reason to apologize -- she had it right the first time

February 21, 2008

MARY MITCHELL marym@suntimes.com

I understood exactly what Michelle Obama meant when she expressed a renewed pride in America. Look at what's happening.

Her husband, Illinois Sen. Barack Obama, has racked up delegates from coast to coast -- not as a symbolic African-American candidate, but as a candidate who is being enthusiastically supported by people from diverse ethnic backgrounds, income brackets, educational levels and geographic locations.

Michelle Obama, shown addressing supporters at a campaign rally in Warwick, Rhode Island, on Wednesday evening, usually speaks from the heart, without notes, before large and small gatherings. Rhode Island holds their presidential primaries Tuesday, March 4.
(AP)

Michelle Obama wasn't even born when Martin Luther King Jr., Malcolm X and other civil rights martyrs were leading movements that generated excitement akin to what we are seeing today.

Finally, in a country that has long been divided by race, a black man is being judged by the masses on the content of his character rather than the color of his skin.

Of course she is feeling a renewed sense of pride in this country.

A lot of us share those feelings. We've never been here before.

We got pretty close when the Rev. Jesse Jackson ran for president in 1984. But never in our history has there been such a coming together of diverse citizens to back a black presidential candidate.

But after her comments ignited a firestorm -- including a response from Cindy McCain, wife of presumed Republican nominee John McCain -- Michelle Obama was forced to explain she didn't really mean she wasn't proud of America.

Having attended several rallies keynoted by Michelle Obama, I'm not surprised that she's now under fire for some of her remarks.

Michelle, as sisters say, "keeps it real." She doesn't try to dress up the facts, but usually speaks from the heart, without notes, before large as well as small gatherings.

So when she says: "[F]or the first time in my adult life, I am proud of my country, or 'really' proud of my country," as she apparently said in a separate speech also delivered Monday night, many of us get it.

We know she is expressing genuine excitement over where this country is heading.

And we also understand the nuances of race in this campaign.

Michelle Obama may have gone to Princeton and Harvard, and she may have worked at a prestigious law firm, but she isn't blind to the plight of people who didn't have the same opportunities.

She is a black woman in America. There must have been days when she wasn't proud of how minorities were being treated in this country.

After all, who is proud that while we are one of the most diverse countries in the world, many of us still struggle with intolerance?

Who is proud that America has dealt with its poverty and underclass by concentrating it in pockets of urban areas?

Who is proud that so many black and poor children in this country are still stuck in inferior schools, and that too many children end up headed for prison?

Who is proud that slavery and Jim Crow are a part of our legacy, and that people had to die as martyrs before we turned away from those evil institutions?

Still, these are not the things that Michelle or Barack Obama talk about on the campaign trail. They both know these are the truths that could be easily twisted to paint Obama as "the black candidate." That political game hasn't changed.

Moreover, when blacks disagree with war-mongering politicians, African Americans are stereotyped as being "unpatriotic."

So it doesn't surprise me that Cindy McCain, who has had little to say throughout his campaign, jumped on Michelle's remarks.

"I just wanted to make the statement that I have, and always will be, proud of my country," she said.

Talk about empty rhetoric.

If Cindy's telling the truth, then she was the only person in America bursting with pride as the world watched former President Bill Clinton's presidency nearly get derailed over hanky-panky.

The trouble with politics is that we want candidates to pretend to be something they are not.

Like a lot of black women, Michelle Obama has probably had periods in her life when she felt anything but pride for this country.

What really matters is that at this moment, this time, her pride -- our pride -- is bursting out all over.