Your Crazy DNC...

[cynic.]

The people have spoken, votes tallied, and the will of the voters has been implemented.

Of course I'm speaking of the members of the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee and not the people of Florida or Michigan.

To quote Harold Ickes, "...now that's what I call democracy."

If I didn't watch the hearings myself, I wouldn't believe that the DNC was so out of touch with reality. Good luck in November!

[GaiusJuliusCaesarAugustus]

The people have spoken, votes tallied, and the will of the voters has been implemented.

Of course I'm speaking of the members of the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee and not the people of Florida or Michigan.

To quote Harold Ickes, "...now that's what I call democracy."

If I didn't watch the hearings myself, I wouldn't believe that the DNC was so out of touch with reality. Good luck in November!
it was politics at its best---the art of compromise.

I just happen to believe the compromise was the wrong one. I believe this because core principles like fair reflection are never open to compromise.


would you care to share what you think about the meeting and your reasoning?:rolleyes:

[Stormy]

it was politics at its best---the art of compromise.

I just happen to believe the compromise was the wrong one. I believe this because core principles like fair reflection are never open to compromise.


would you care to share what you think about the meeting and your reasoning?:rolleyes:
There is no "fair reflection" when a delegate can come in and void a vote cast by an individual. The entire process is corrupt.

[cynic.]

The meeting was political posturing from both campaigns. Very entertaining. The 'events' in Florida and Michigan came with agreed upon terms by all involved.

Then these terms were changed after voters were told months ago that their votes would not count for the Democratic nominee... (we all know the story...) Now they care that their voice is heard? And Obama wasn't even on the ballot in Michigan... so give him 10 less pledged delegates. In my opinion, this is a compromise which does nothing but shows that the DNC is confused, frightened, and disconnected.

Overall, I was suprised that there was even a meeting at all. This should have been a time to talk about how not to let this happen again, but what is done is done this year. Abide by your own rules and imposed sanctions.

[pocketfullofshells]

I know what kinda Democracy has rules to how the votes work, and who wins the election? wait all of them

Florida and MI decided not to follow the rules, thus should be happy we count them at all, let alone give them half a vote.
Clinton cries because she is forced to follow the same rules she agreed to and had no problem with when the election started...but now she needs them changed to win, so her supporters call it unfair..
Her Supporters use Enron math as well
"she has more popular vote" really? Is that counting Michigan where Obama was not even on the Ballot?
Opps and forget all the Caucus states aka States Obama did very well in thus not not worth counting.
I hope she cries again when she has officially lost..then starts going to , its do to sexism....

[NO Obamanation]

It’s bad enough that they have to give Obama the uncommitted votes even though many of them were for Edwards, Biden and Richardson (the other 3 who were not on the ballot) Just for fun they had to take 4 of Hillary’s delegates

[top gun]

I know what kinda Democracy has rules to how the votes work, and who wins the election? wait all of them

Florida and MI decided not to follow the rules, thus should be happy we count them at all, let alone give them half a vote.
Clinton cries because she is forced to follow the same rules she agreed to and had no problem with when the election started...but now she needs them changed to win, so her supporters call it unfair..
Her Supporters use Enron math as well
"she has more popular vote" really? Is that counting Michigan where Obama was not even on the Ballot?
Opps and forget all the Caucus states aka States Obama did very well in thus not not worth counting.
I hope she cries again when she has officially lost..then starts going to , its do to sexism....


You are absolutely correct. The thing the Obama bashers never want to admit is the original facts that precede all other debate...

A) Michigan (and Florida) were well aware that if they broke the established rules for primary dates THEIR DELEGATES WOULD NOT BE SEATED. THE VOTE IN THEIR STATES WOULD NOT COUNT.

B) THE VOTERS OF SAID STATES WERE ALSO TOLD IN ADVANCE OF THE PRIMARIES THEIR VOTES WOULD NOT BE COUNTED.

C) The candidates themselves signed pledges NOT TO EVEN CAMPAIGN in these 2 states because THEIR DELEGATES WOULD NOT BE SEATED AND THE VOTE WOULD NOT BE COUNTED.

D) Several candidates EVEN TOOK THEIR NAMES OFF THE BALLOT ENTIRELY.

So in what world does any tabulation on any of this constitute an honest open election. How many people just didn't vote because they were officially told before hand... If you vote it still won't count? That's like posting in the paper THE SEARS SALE ORIGINALLY SCHEDULED FOR THIS WEEKEND HAS BEEN OFFICIALLY CANCELLED... and then have the sale just for those that might happen to show up!

But in the end the DNC did work for the interest of Party unity... by finding a way to seat all the delegates with only a one half vote each penalty. There is no stealing of anything let alone delegates. THE ORIGINAL RULING WAS ZERO, NODDA, NOTHING... you've been completely stripped.

What happened in the end was these states were actually given back all of their delegates and were only docked half of their overall convention voting strength... even after freely admitting they did indeed break established Party Rules.

To not dock these states in someway would have been tantamount to punishing the other 48 states that played by the rules.

Good for the DNC to stand on principle and OVERALL fairness!

[NO Obamanation]

You are absolutely correct. The thing the Obama bashers never want to admit is the original facts that precede all other debate...

A) Michigan (and Florida) were well aware that if they broke the established rules for primary dates THEIR DELEGATES WOULD NOT BE SEATED. THE VOTE IN THEIR STATES WOULD NOT COUNT.

B) THE VOTERS OF SAID STATES WERE ALSO TOLD IN ADVANCE OF THE PRIMARIES THEIR VOTES WOULD NOT BE COUNTED.

C) The candidates themselves signed pledges NOT TO EVEN CAMPAIGN in these 2 states because THEIR DELEGATES WOULD NOT BE SEATED AND THE VOTE WOULD NOT BE COUNTED.

D) Several candidates EVEN TOOK THEIR NAMES OFF THE BALLOT ENTIRELY.

So in what world does any tabulation on any of this constitute an honest open election. How many people just didn't vote because they were officially told before hand... If you vote it still won't count? That's like posting in the paper THE SEARS SALE ORIGINALLY SCHEDULED FOR THIS WEEKEND HAS BEEN OFFICIALLY CANCELLED... and then have the sale just for those that might happen to show up!

But in the end the DNC did work for the interest of Party unity... by finding a way to seat all the delegates with only a one half vote each penalty. There is no stealing of anything let alone delegates. THE ORIGINAL RULING WAS ZERO, NODDA, NOTHING... you've been completely stripped.

What happened in the end was these states were actually given back all of their delegates and were only docked half of their overall convention voting strength... even after freely admitting they did indeed break established Party Rules.

To not dock these states in someway would have been tantamount to punishing the other 48 states that played by the rules.

Good for the DNC to stand on principle and OVERALL fairness!



Obama his happy he said with the results from Michigan. He was able to get every vote that was cast for him under uncommitted, and he was able to get all of Biden’s votes and he was able to get all of Richardson’s votes and he was able to get all of Edwards votes and then he reached over and snagged 4 of Hillary’s delegates. He is very pleased with himself, with the party and with the solution.

He said “This solution works, Michigan had to be punished for not abiding with the DNC rules”.
So……….his solution to punish Michigan is to snag every vote even the ones not intended for him and stealing 4 of Hillary’s delegates. I think that is so funny, even he admits he himself is a punishment.

[NO Obamanation]

Dang it is to bad that Chris Dodd, Mike Gravel and Dennis Kucinich did not take thier names off of the ballot too, think of how many more votes he would have been able to STEAL

[pocketfullofshells]

Dang it is to bad that Chris Dodd, Mike Gravel and Dennis Kucinich did not take thier names off of the ballot too, think of how many more votes he would have been able to STEAL


yes he stole the votes...Wait He was not even on the ballot....but then you want them to count them the way the vote was done...even though Obama was not even on the ballot so we should act like Clinton earned all her votes in a Fair Election? I would have told Florida and MI, they can take a Hike. They made the bed they lie in.

FLorida should be banned for voting ever again. in fact, lets blow up the border and push it out into the ocean and hope it sinks...or floats to Cuba.

[Libsmasher]

The main upshot of this farce continues to be that McCain should be able to win both of these states. :)

[NO Obamanation]

yes he stole the votes...Wait He was not even on the ballot....but then you want them to count them the way the vote was done...even though Obama was not even on the ballot so we should act like Clinton earned all her votes in a Fair Election? I would have told Florida and MI, they can take a Hike. They made the bed they lie in.

FLorida should be banned for voting ever again. in fact, lets blow up the border and push it out into the ocean and hope it sinks...or floats to Cuba.

And no I think it was fair enough that Obama got every uncommitted vote. They were not all for him but it was the strangest situation, so ok give him every uncommitted that would be all of his and all of 2 other candidates. I like that idea and have no issues with it, but when he had to take 4 of Hillary’s delegates also, that was just to much.

The people of Florida and MI did not do anything wrong, it was their government that did something wrong, it is not right to hurt the people for what the government did. Don’t pay the people in charge for a year or dock their pay, fire them or what ever but don’t punish the people.

Why should Florida be banned from voting?

[Here We Go]

Ok, so Michigan and Florida's votes were not to be included in the primaries because they did not go by the rules. Please help me understand why the following processes occurred:


Why did people vote in those states when they knew their votes would not be included?

Why did the news media cover those primaries as if they were valid like all the other state's primaries?

Sorry if I appear to be a nimno. It just doesn't make sense to me. :confused:

[NO Obamanation]

Ok, so Michigan and Florida's votes were not to be included in the primaries because they did not go by the rules. Please help me understand why the following processes occurred:


Why did people vote in those states when they knew their votes would not be included?

Why did the news media cover those primaries as if they were valid like all the other state's primaries?

Sorry if I appear to be a nimno. It just doesn't make sense to me. :confused:

I think the people refused to believe they would be punished for what their representatives did, and I think the news saw a story and covered it.

[pocketfullofshells]

And no I think it was fair enough that Obama got every uncommitted vote. They were not all for him but it was the strangest situation, so ok give him every uncommitted that would be all of his and all of 2 other candidates. I like that idea and have no issues with it, but when he had to take 4 of Hillary’s delegates also, that was just to much.

The people of Florida and MI did not do anything wrong, it was their government that did something wrong, it is not right to hurt the people for what the government did. Don’t pay the people in charge for a year or dock their pay, fire them or what ever but don’t punish the people.

Why should Florida be banned from voting?

It was not there goverment, it was there Party that screwed up. They could have stoped it, but nooo they wanted to feel special and be early. They did not stand up, and they can pay the price. Sorry but you cant have the State party break the rules and then say well you can do that all you want, we dont want to hurt the people only picked you to lead, supported your idea, and I am guessing if its anything like my party, voted to do it. Thats the , Liberal Bleeding heart crap I hate about some Liberals, Tough crap. YOu made you bed, now lie in it.

And as for Florida? come on now, you must watch the news...they have Screwed up something in every Election since 2000 ( most likely before that even) The state on both sides must be run with a collective IQ of like 70. Voters who cant vote because they have the same name as someone else who cant? Voters who can't vote because they committed a felony, even after the courts tell the state it can't do that. Can't figure out how to count a vote. Put machines the next time but no one knows how they work making it so countless can't vote or have to wait even longer. Then they are not even sure those worked right. Now they move there party vote up, even though they know its against the laws, they cry like little school girls when the rules they knew about are actually enforced on them. Just wait, in the 2008 Election, Florida will screw something up, you know it.

[pocketfullofshells]

Ok, so Michigan and Florida's votes were not to be included in the primaries because they did not go by the rules. Please help me understand why the following processes occurred:


Why did people vote in those states when they knew their votes would not be included?

Why did the news media cover those primaries as if they were valid like all the other state's primaries?

Sorry if I appear to be a nimno. It just doesn't make sense to me. :confused:

1 because the state party runs the Vote, and had it anyway. the National party said they would not count it, as it broke party rules. They can't stop the party from voting, but they don't have the count it. The state party could vote every Month if they wanted, they can do what ever they want as a state party. But it does not mean the National party has to agree with it if it violates the national party rules that the state parties agree to.

2. I am guessing you Watch Fox or maybe CNN, because MSNBC, and for what I did see of CNN, they never covered it like it was a real vote, they talked a lot about how it did not really count. And its 24 hour news, they have to talk about something. If they have a vote in Canada, they would most likely cover it, even if it was meaningless, just to fill air time.

[Libsmasher]

Ok, so Michigan and Florida's votes were not to be included in the primaries because they did not go by the rules. Please help me understand why the following processes occurred:

Why did people vote in those states when they knew their votes would not be included?

Maybe they thought the Democratic party was democratic, and wouldn't punish millions of democratic voters for what the state leaders did?

Why did the news media cover those primaries as if they were valid like all the other state's primaries?

DID they cover them that way? I doubt it.

[Here We Go]

Thanks to all of you for your help. I remember them saying this was not supposed to count but I guess they ran it anyway just to let us know. Dang, as high as gas is, I wouldn't drive to vote if it wasn't (at the time) going to be counted. As you probably can tell, this is the first time I have really watched the primary process. The more I watch it, the crazier it gets. :)

[pocketfullofshells]

Maybe they thought the Democratic party was democratic, and wouldn't punish millions of democratic voters for what the state leaders did?



DID they cover them that way? I doubt it.

world is ending, I agreed on both parts....

[cynic.]

This entire situation is a microcosm of how the Dems believe government should "impose" the will of the people.

An elite few who, as Harold Ickes stated, has spoken for 600,000 people and basically decided for them.

This is what the Dems have turned into: big government is the answer to all of your issues because we know how to live your life better than you. Just nod and smile and go along with our program... and this is what happened over the weekend.

This situation is EXACTLY what the Dems stand for, day-in and day-out.

[NO Obamanation]

This entire situation is a microcosm of how the Dems believe government should "impose" the will of the people.

An elite few who, as Harold Ickes stated, has spoken for 600,000 people and basically decided for them.

This is what the Dems have turned into: big government is the answer to all of your issues because we know how to live your life better than you. Just nod and smile and go along with our program... and this is what happened over the weekend.

This situation is EXACTLY what the Dems stand for, day-in and day-out.


I agree with you.



I also think they need to change the way they run the primaries. Currently it’s like the playground at a grade school. Lets not leave anyone out, little Johnny gets some too. Everybody is a winner.

If one of them wins a state, they win a state. The winner should not have to share.

Example is Texas. Even though Hillary won the state, Obama got more delegates because of those stupid caucuses that are just dumb. You don’t even have to be a voter to caucus, and a percent of the actual voting population can not caucus, People in the military, Elderly, single moms with kids in bed at 9pm.

And they need to get rid of those ridiculous super delegates. If all they are going to do is follow peer pressure then they are worthless. Just let the voters pick who they want. No weird caucuses, no weird super delegates, no weird lets share everything so little Johnny doesn’t feel left out.

[Libsmasher]

world is ending, I agreed on both parts....

Yeah - a nomination for US president rigged by a backroom agreement - who cares?? Duhhhhhh :D

[pocketfullofshells]

Yeah - a nomination for US president rigged by a backroom agreement - who cares?? Duhhhhhh :D

if by back door you mean by following the rules that anyone can see and any Dem could try to change.

[top gun]

Obama his happy he said with the results from Michigan. He was able to get every vote that was cast for him under uncommitted, and he was able to get all of Biden’s votes and he was able to get all of Richardson’s votes and he was able to get all of Edwards votes and then he reached over and snagged 4 of Hillary’s delegates. He is very pleased with himself, with the party and with the solution.

He said “This solution works, Michigan had to be punished for not abiding with the DNC rules”.
So……….his solution to punish Michigan is to snag every vote even the ones not intended for him and stealing 4 of Hillary’s delegates. I think that is so funny, even he admits he himself is a punishment.

Again we have to keep in mind the obvious WHOLE TRUTH. Michigan's vote was not valid. Everyone in the world was told by the official santioning body that it was not going to be valid. It was pulled completely off the table.

What really should have happened was there should have been no votes counted and no delegates awarded. That was the actual 100% correct thing to do.

But in the interest of Party unity the DNC went along with the Michigan State Democratic Party recommendation to not wipe the primary completely out or split it evenly... and they gave Clinton more than half.

Extremely fair... and it has since come out that they actually had the votes to just do the 50%-50% split had they wanted to.

[Here We Go]

What really should have happened was there should have been no votes counted and no delegates awarded. That was the actual 100% correct thing to do.


But NO, the DNC bowed to the sniveling "brat-like" voters. How immature for some Democrats to insinuate "If MY candidate does not win the Democratic nomination . . . I WILL VOTE FOR McCAIN!" Now, is that kindergarten or what?

[Andy]

I like how non-US citizens choose the Democraps candidate. Puerto Rico votes for Hillary is humorous to me. Imagine: Obama spends 20 years in 'God d**n America" church, and then while running for President, loses due to Non-Americans voting for his rival. That would have been classic.

[Here We Go]

My daughter and I just got through playing Rummy. She had the highest score and said "she" won. I said "No, I won because I had higher card values on the table even though they did not add up to as much as yours. I shall take this to the Rummy Board!" (this really happened)
http://planetsmilies.net/sign-smiley-7041.gif

[NO Obamanation]

But NO, the DNC bowed to the sniveling "brat-like" voters. How immature for some Democrats to insinuate "If MY candidate does not win the Democratic nomination . . . I WILL VOTE FOR McCAIN!" Now, is that kindergarten or what?

The ones I have seen are more or less like me. It is not that I am mad he beat her fair and square and I just wont vote for him because I am mad. It is because I can not vote for that man for any reason. She would be the only possible choice.

Others expressed to me they didnt think he could win with his baggage.
others said it was their last chance to see a woman president in their life times.

The first reason is reasonable, the others idunno But I only really understand the first.

[NO Obamanation]

and the fact he did not beat her fair and square puts an added nail in his coffin for me, making it impossible to vote for him.

[pocketfullofshells]

and the fact he did not beat her fair and square puts an added nail in his coffin for me, making it impossible to vote for him.

Fair and Square? the only one who has not won anything Fair and Square is Clinton. She is the one who wants the rules changed after the fact, because it may help her. Is if Fair to Change the rules when you don't like the outcome? Thats basicly what you are saying. I think you just don't just want reasons to Bash Obama, I don't think you even care about facts anymore.

[Here We Go]

The ones I have seen are more or less like me. It is not that I am mad he beat her fair and square and I just wont vote for him because I am mad. It is because I can not vote for that man for any reason. She would be the only possible choice. Others expressed to me they didnt think he could win with his baggage. others said it was their last chance to see a woman president in their life times. The first reason is reasonable, the others idunno But I only really understand the first.

If voters are upset with the (he or she) winner of the Democratic nomination, I would rather them not vote at all than vote for McCain. We've had enough of Iraq and want our boys back home. 4000+ died and many of the survivors will never be the same . . . mentally or physically.

[NO Obamanation]

If voters are upset with the (he or she) winner of the Democratic nomination, I would rather them not vote at all than vote for McCain. We've had enough of Iraq and want our boys back home. 4000+ died and many of the survivors will never be the same . . . mentally or physically.

I don't think the Iraq war is the #1 issue right now. The economy is bigger at least the poles say. Terrorist threats are up there but not as big as the economy.

According to the news the war is going extra well right now, More so than expected. I don’t really like the war topic. I am only bringing it up because I don’t think it’s a major issue for most people any more, even democrats.

People can’t stand the idea of not voting. Even if I vote 3d party, I vote.

[top gun]

Fair and Square? the only one who has not won anything Fair and Square is Clinton. She is the one who wants the rules changed after the fact, because it may help her. Is if Fair to Change the rules when you don't like the outcome? Thats basicly what you are saying. I think you just don't just want reasons to Bash Obama, I don't think you even care about facts anymore.

Agreed... but you know in a way the fact that the Clinton's (and remember I was their biggest fan at one time) did pull everything they did... especially their take on "Clinton math" and screaming sexism when the Obama campaign was overly respectful... and still lost. Shows me that the better candidate really did win.

Now we can get on to eliminating anymore of this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8kvda3EYrA