Obama and the Middle East

[The Scotsman]

Hamas hits out at Obama
04/06/2008 21:36 - (SA)

Gaza City - The Islamist Hamas movement that rules the Gaza Strip slammed a speech by Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama on Wednesday, saying it confirmed US "hostility" to Arabs and Muslims.

"We consider the statements of Obama to be further evidence of the hostility of the American administration to Arabs and Muslims," Hamas spokesperson Sami Abu Zuhri told AFP.

In the speech delivered to a powerful US-Israel lobby group in Washington, Obama reaffirmed his support for Israel and said Jerusalem should remain Israel's "undivided" capital.

Palestinians, including moderate president Mahmoud Abbas, have demanded that east Jerusalem - occupied and annexed by Israel in the 1967 war - be the capital of their promised future state.

The international community, including the United States, has never recognised Israel's claim over the whole city and virtually every country in the world has its embassy in the seaside city of Tel Aviv.

Obama did however say he would push for a negotiated settlement to the decades-old conflict if he is elected to the White House in November.

Abu Zuhri said Obama's statements on Jerusalem "confirm the consensus of the two American political parties on unlimited aid to the (Israeli) occupation at the expense of Palestinians and Arabs".

The speech, he said, "destroys any hope for change in American policies toward the Arab-Israeli conflict".

Obama also reiterated that he will not negotiate with Hamas - which won parliamentary elections in 2006 and seized total power in the Gaza Strip in June 2007 - until it recognises Israel and renounces violence.

"We must isolate Hamas unless and until they renounce terrorism, recognise Israel's right to exist, and abide by past agreements. There is no room at the negotiating table for terrorist organisations."

In May Obama's Republican opponent John McCain said Hamas would welcome an Obama presidency, charges the Democratic candidate denied as "offensive" and "disappointing".

http://www.news24.com/News24/World/US_Elections_2008/0,,2-10-2339_2334905,00.html

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Facing criticism, Obama modifies Jerusalem stance

June 5, 2008
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama amended his support for Israel's stance on Jerusalem on Thursday, saying Palestinians and Israelis had to negotiate the future of the holy city.

Palestinian leaders reacted with anger and dismay on Wednesday to Obama saying Jerusalem should be Israel's undivided capital.

"Well, obviously, it's going to be up to the parties to negotiate a range of these issues. And Jerusalem will be part of those negotiations," Obama told CNN when asked whether Palestinians had no future claim to the city.

Asked if he opposed any division of Jerusalem, Obama said: "As a practical matter, it would be very difficult to execute. And I think that it is smart for us to -- to work through a system in which everybody has access to the extraordinary religious sites in Old Jerusalem but that Israel has a legitimate claim on that city."

In Washington on Wednesday, Obama told the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, a pro-Israel lobby group, that if elected president in November, he would work for peace with a Palestinian state alongside Israel.

"Jerusalem will remain the capital of Israel, and it must remain undivided," he told the lobby group.

The United States and other powers do not regard Jerusalem as Israel's capital -- the U.S. and other embassies are in Tel Aviv -- and do not recognize Israel's annexation of Arab East Jerusalem following its capture in the 1967 Middle East war.

The outgoing U.S. president, George W. Bush, has sponsored peace negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians in the hope of securing a deal on a Palestinian state before he leaves office in January.

One of the thorniest issues is resolving the rival Israeli and Palestinian demands on the future of Jerusalem.

http://www.boston.com/news/world/middleeast/articles/2008/06/05/facing_criticism_obama_modifies_jerusalem_stance/

---------------------------------------------------------------------

As a Brit I have the luxury of impartiality.

There's a time to talk and a time to shut up - its a hard leason to learn especially when you're a young prospective Presidental Candidate riding high! However, I think that Obama's inexperience in the wider field of Politics and International Relations is going to be a problem unless he learns fast as shown above. The USA holds some key positions in Geopolitical policy descisions and alliances in the Middle East and if not careful Obama will cause problems with his allies or their enemies. He needs to learn to keep his own council until he has hired some experienced advisers to tell him what to say and when.

Electioneering is over, he's playing with the big boys now and I hope for your sakes he's up to it!

[pocketfullofshells]

Make a Policy thats best for the US, and if you lose the Jewish Voters so what, they should be worried about the US first , not Israel. I may be Irish in anncestor, and proud can be about that ( Full Size Irish Flag in my room) but if its down to US interest vs Irish, US wins still no question.

Same for Cuba...you are American or Cuban, don't tell American Politicians what to do, if all you want is to go back to Cuba to be Cuban again.

Israel needs to face up and deal with that fact it can't push everyone around, and do what it wants all the time. Go against the UN, and try to hold land it took in violation of the UN...and expect Security any time soon.

[Libsmasher]

http://www.news24.com/News24/World/US_Elections_2008/0,,2-10-2339_2334905,00.html

--------------------------------------------------------------------------



http://www.boston.com/news/world/middleeast/articles/2008/06/05/facing_criticism_obama_modifies_jerusalem_stance/

---------------------------------------------------------------------

As a Brit I have the luxury of impartiality.

There's a time to talk and a time to shut up - its a hard leason to learn especially when you're a young prospective Presidental Candidate riding high! However, I think that Obama's inexperience in the wider field of Politics and International Relations is going to be a problem unless he learns fast as shown above. The USA holds some key positions in Geopolitical policy descisions and alliances in the Middle East and if not careful Obama will cause problems with his allies or their enemies. He needs to learn to keep his own council until he has hired some experienced advisers to tell him what to say and when.

Electioneering is over, he's playing with the big boys now and I hope for your sakes he's up to it!

Excellent. Your post is dead on target. Obama's naiveté is glaring.

[NO Obamanation]

Make a Policy thats best for the US, and if you lose the Jewish Voters so what, they should be worried about the US first , not Israel. I may be Irish in anncestor, and proud can be about that ( Full Size Irish Flag in my room) but if its down to US interest vs Irish, US wins still no question.

Same for Cuba...you are American or Cuban, don't tell American Politicians what to do, if all you want is to go back to Cuba to be Cuban again.

Israel needs to face up and deal with that fact it can't push everyone around, and do what it wants all the time. Go against the UN, and try to hold land it took in violation of the UN...and expect Security any time soon.


No worries, next week he will be pro Palestine. And whoever's vote he isn’t holding firm by November, he will be for them too.


On a side note, did you notice he is now wearing a flag pin, but not just a normal one; it’s a Jewish American flag pin. Once his thinks he's got the patriot voters he will go back for the flag burners.

Obama can be all things to all people :)

[Here We Go]

Yeah, I don't know what Obama's game plan is but he needs to focus on what's going on here in America FIRST. It concerns me to see him blabbing about foreign problems at this time. To me that's not "Change", that's business as usual. Be careful Obama, I'm becoming disenchanted. That means there's probably others that share this view as well.

[NO Obamanation]

Yeah, I don't know what Obama's game plan is but he needs to focus on what's going on here in America FIRST. It concerns me to see him blabbing about foreign problems at this time. To me that's not "Change", that's business as usual. Be careful Obama, I'm becoming disenchanted. That means there's probably others that share this view as well.

I don’t know, I think he is becoming the "rock star" again. He was so... what is the word.... I don’t know but people were fainting at his rally’s when it wasn’t even hot out, 7 fainters in all I think. The money was coming in, in record numbers and then later when the Rev. Wright stuff came out and the small town comments, the money dried up some and no one was fainting anymore even when the weather got much hotter. But now it’s back to rock star. Today on the radio I was listening to commentary one his rally and when he took his jacket off the crowed screamed as though he was about to do a strip tease. So I figure back to rock star, except one thing. I am on his pal list and I got a message that he needs money to be able to match what McCain has taken in.

I didn’t think anyone or their mother would donate to McCain but apparently they have and Obama needs money to match it. In all of the emails I have gotten from Obama, only once did he ask specifically for money.

[NO Obamanation]

Yeah, I don't know what Obama's game plan is but he needs to focus on what's going on here in America FIRST. It concerns me to see him blabbing about foreign problems at this time. To me that's not "Change", that's business as usual. Be careful Obama, I'm becoming disenchanted. That means there's probably others that share this view as well.

Also, I think he has to talk about foreign policy because it is perceived to be his weakness, and McCain’s strength. So I understand why he has to do it but I wish he would just be honest in where his allegiances are. I do not think they are with Israel so why say it. If he is more pro Palestinian then say it. It’s not a dirty word it’s just a political opinion. One that I am firmly against, but I am already against Obama so…It cant hurt to just say it like it is. :D

[pocketfullofshells]

No worries, next week he will be pro Palestine. And whoever's vote he isn’t holding firm by November, he will be for them too.


On a side note, did you notice he is now wearing a flag pin, but not just a normal one; it’s a Jewish American flag pin. Once his thinks he's got the patriot voters he will go back for the flag burners.

Obama can be all things to all people :)

one I am guessing that was just for that one event, I bet they even had them for him ready ( I am guessing Clinton had the same , but just my guess)

Flag Burners to me are just as Patriotic, sometimes more. And he was pro Palestine, and so far as I know he never said anything about being for a Divided Jerusalem to start with, so its not like his position changed. He tailored the rhetoric to them, but who does not do that? Personally, if they Divide it or not, really is not us up to us, but the Jewish Vote wants to hear it. If Israel agrees with the Arab neighbors and Palestine, to a agreement that splits it, we can't stop it. Nore can we make anyone do it. Its a worthless point. But people are sheep and let to be told things that make them feel good, even if they should know its just words.

[pocketfullofshells]

Also, I think he has to talk about foreign policy because it is perceived to be his weakness, and McCain’s strength. So I understand why he has to do it but I wish he would just be honest in where his allegiances are. I do not think they are with Israel so why say it. If he is more pro Palestinian then say it. It’s not a dirty word it’s just a political opinion. One that I am firmly against, but I am already against Obama so…It cant hurt to just say it like it is. :D

becuse he does not have a political death wish? I could care less if the Arab nations overran and took over Israel right now, would save us a lot of headaches....but I would never say that running for office. Lossers change policy alot less then winners.

[Popeye]

I don’t know, I think he is becoming the "rock star" again. He was so... what is the word.... I don’t know but people were fainting at his rally’s when it wasn’t even hot out, 7 fainters in all I think. The money was coming in, in record numbers and then later when the Rev. Wright stuff came out and the small town comments, the money dried up some and no one was fainting anymore even when the weather got much hotter. But now it’s back to rock star. Today on the radio I was listening to commentary one his rally and when he took his jacket off the crowed screamed as though he was about to do a strip tease. So I figure back to rock star, except one thing. I am on his pal list and I got a message that he needs money to be able to match what McCain has taken in.

I didn’t think anyone or their mother would donate to McCain but apparently they have and Obama needs money to match it. In all of the emails I have gotten from Obama, only once did he ask specifically for money.

Are you suggesting Obama, in comparison to McCain, has money problems? Though I'm sure you enjoy entertaining such a thought, it might be best if you were brought back down to earth. I highlighted some of the more relevant portions, but it would be better if you read the whole thing. It will help you understand just what kind of disadvantage McCain faces financially.

From Politico.com (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0608/10868.html)

With Hillary Clinton’s campaign coming to an end this weekend, Barack Obama’s rise as the Democratic nominee brings serious bad news to a new group: John McCain’s finance team.

A review of campaign finance data offers not one ounce of good news and barely any hope for the McCain campaign’s ability to compete with Obama’s fundraising prowess.

To make matters worse, Obama’s campaign, which raised $272 million through April for the primary, now is reaching out to Clinton’s fundraisers, who raised another $200 million through April, in an effort to unite forces and bury the historically deep-pocketed Republicans.

Take a look at some of the numbers:

• If each of Obama’s donors gave him a modest $250, he’d have $375 million to spend during the two-month general election sprint. That’s $186 million a month, $47 million a week.

• During the same September to Nov. 4 period, McCain will have about $85 million to spend since he has decided to take taxpayer money to help finance his campaign activities.

• The Republican National Committee, which is charged with closing the gap between McCain and Obama, has $40 million in cash. Obama raised almost as much — $31 million — from just his small donors in the month of February. His total for the month, $57 million, exceeded the RNC’s cash balance.

• Obama has more than 1.5 million donors; McCain has a few hundred thousand. If just a million of Obama’s donors sent him the maximum donation, $2,300, he could raise $2.3 billion.

OK, that’s not going to happen. But campaign finance experts and Democratic fundraisers say a conservative estimate of Obama’s general election fundraising potential hovers around or above $300 million.

Such a massive financial advantage will allow Obama to compete in more states than McCain and force his rival to defend states that should rightfully be Republican wins.

[NO Obamanation]

Are you suggesting Obama, in comparison to McCain, has money problems? Though I'm sure you enjoy entertaining such a thought, it might be best if you were brought back down to earth. I highlighted some of the more relevant portions, but it would be better if you read the whole thing. It will help you understand just what kind of disadvantage McCain faces financially.

From Politico.com (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0608/10868.html)

No not suggesting anything. Just saying what my email from his camp said. here i will cut and paste it for you. I am on the website friend list so I get emails about differnt stuff. here is the message. If you dont trust it, then i can forward the message to your email ok.






Crystal --

In the excitement of the past few days, there's some news you may have missed.

John McCain and the Republican National Committee released their fundraising numbers for May, and we've got our work cut out for us.

The McCain campaign raised $21 million, which will be combined with $23.7 million raised in partnership with the Republican National Committee.

That's nearly $45 million dollars in one month -- money that will be used to attack Barack Obama and support John McCain's effort to extend the policies of George W. Bush for another four years.

We need to respond quickly and show that we are ready to take on Senator McCain in the general election.

Now is the time to take the next step and own a piece of this campaign.

If you make a $25 donation today, your gift will be matched by a previous donor who has agreed to give again. You can even choose to exchange a note with them about why you support Barack.

Help reach the goal of 10,000 first-time donors and build our movement to take on John McCain:

https://donate.barackobama.com/match

Even more disturbing than the amount of money John McCain and the RNC have raised is the way they raised it.

They depend on donations from Washington lobbyists and special interest PACs. And top officials in McCain's campaign have been asking these donors to write checks and raise money from their clients to the tune of $50,000 each.

Barack is doing things differently.

This campaign has never accepted donations from Washington lobbyists or special interest PACs. And yesterday the Democratic National Committee announced that they will follow the same restriction.

We are going to compete in the general election the same way we have all along -- by depending on a movement of more than 1.5 million people giving only what they can afford.

Make your first $25 donation today and double your impact:

https://donate.barackobama.com/match

I'm sure you've heard that Hillary Clinton is suspending her campaign and announcing her support for Barack. We all owe Senator Clinton -- and her supporters -- a great deal of respect for running an incredible campaign and strengthening our party in all 50 states.

But John McCain and his allies are not missing a beat in their campaign to continue the Bush agenda.

As the presumptive nominee, John McCain had a three-month head start to build his party and raise money. But we can't afford to let him have the advantage.

For all his talk of reform, John McCain is willing to rely on huge donations from Washington lobbyists and special interest PACs.

We have a historic opportunity to run a new kind of campaign and elect a new kind of leader.

Thank you for your support and for being a part of this movement,

David

David Plouffe
Campaign Manager
Obama for America







Paid for by Obama for America

[NO Obamanation]

becuse he does not have a political death wish? I could care less if the Arab nations overran and took over Israel right now, would save us a lot of headaches....but I would never say that running for office. Lossers change policy alot less then winners.

I am not sure that saying you are pro Palestine would be a political death wish. Many on the left have changed to pro Palestine instead of pro Israel. It could hurt with moderates and independent vote i guess. But if he is really the new kind of politician than be that, say what you are and don’t try to appeal to everyone by telling them what they want to hear.

[pocketfullofshells]

I am not sure that saying you are pro Palestine would be a political death wish. Many on the left have changed to pro Palestine instead of pro Israel. It could hurt with moderates and independent vote i guess. But if he is really the new kind of politician than be that, say what you are and don’t try to appeal to everyone by telling them what they want to hear.

Those voters you talk about, are there, but most already vote Dem and would support you in any case. I don't know of anyone that is actively pro Palestine, or anti Israel that does not vote Dem , with the exception of a few Greens. Those Greens are for the most part not changing parties, they view the Dems with great Distrust. The Jewish and Christian vote you would lose would be far far greater then the potential pick ups of the small amount of Supporters you would gain who where not already going to vote for you. Its a Political Death wish on the Nat Level. On a state by state basis there are times where you could make the case maybe, but not nationally.

there is a limit to how much of a "new politician" you can be, and still be able to meet your goals. I don't place some massiah of politics on Obama to be 10% Honest at any cost. And I its very possible he has been honest about his position both in what he will do and believe, so i am only speaking for myself. I have yet to see anything from him on Israel/Palestine that is in conflict outside of maybe a tone , but not on policy.

[The Scotsman]

I don’t know, I think he is becoming the "rock star" again. He was so... what is the word.... I don’t know but people were fainting at his rally’s when it wasn’t even hot out, 7 fainters in all I think.

I know what you are getting at! We've just had 10 years of Tony Blair and he was exactly the same when he first started out campaigning for Prime Minister. It was all cool outfits, big smiles and shirt sleeves, smart rhetoric and tight media control...the new kid on the block that was'nt going to take anymore nonsense from the old established political black siuts, young knight that was going to lead the country into a new era of open and honest politics. Trouble was it was all sound bites and no substance - we had 10 ten years of this vaccuous political actor who had no experience in politics at all apart from being a very skilled orator and a team that kept a very tight grip on the party and what they said to the media.

Blair, like Obama I suppose was a product of a population that was sick and tired of the previous 10 years of Conservative Government the British people would have elected any cupid stunt that came up and said "Hey guys look at me I'm different.... I'm going to change the way politics is done.... I'm not going to make the mistakes of the past" Hey pesto...we got Blair

The similarity of Blair and Obama is frightening..... listen out for all them lovely sound bites and then over time equate them to reality and then listen to the excuses as to why they could not happen. Blair was an absolute master at this.

[Popeye]

I know what you are getting at! We've just had 10 years of Tony Blair and he was exactly the same when he first started out campaigning for Prime Minister. It was all cool outfits, big smiles and shirt sleeves, smart rhetoric and tight media control...the new kid on the block that was'nt going to take anymore nonsense from the old established political black siuts, young knight that was going to lead the country into a new era of open and honest politics. Trouble was it was all sound bites and no substance - we had 10 ten years of this vaccuous political actor who had no experience in politics at all apart from being a very skilled orator and a team that kept a very tight grip on the party and what they said to the media.

Blair, like Obama I suppose was a product of a population that was sick and tired of the previous 10 years of Conservative Government the British people would have elected any cupid stunt that came up and said "Hey guys look at me I'm different.... I'm going to change the way politics is done.... I'm not going to make the mistakes of the past" Hey pesto...we got Blair

The similarity of Blair and Obama is frightening..... listen out for all them lovely sound bites and then over time equate them to reality and then listen to the excuses as to why they could not happen. Blair was an absolute master at this.

Perhaps you didn't care for Tony Blair, it's obvious you lean toward the Conservatives anyway, but from my understanding Blair was on of the most popular Prime Ministers in history. Despite the best efforts of the Tories and like minded individuals, such as yourself, he was Prime Minister for some 10 years. I believe he was the first Labour Party leader to win three consecutive elections. His popularity only began to wane after he rather foolishly unconditionally backed Bush on Iraq, becoming known here, and I guess over there, as Bush's lapdog or poodle.

Taking all that into account, if Blair was "all sound bites and no substance", why was Labour and Blair returned to office twice more after his initial election?

[SW85]

Taking all that into account, if Blair was "all sound bites and no substance", why was Labour and Blair returned to office twice more after his initial election?

As I understand it, because the other parties were regarded as utterly unfit for governance.

The Tories would probably not have fared so well in the last election if David Cameron had not detoxed the Tory brand, notwithstanding Labour's collapse.

Scotsman's from the UK though, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here.

[NO Obamanation]

I don't know of anyone that is actively pro Palestine, or anti Israel that does not vote Dem.


I have said this before to some one I work with and they about wanted to shoot me. They found it super rude of me to say, I thought it was just accurate.

I am glad to hear someone else besides myself see's this.

[NO Obamanation]

I know what you are getting at! We've just had 10 years of Tony Blair and he was exactly the same when he first started out campaigning for Prime Minister. It was all cool outfits, big smiles and shirt sleeves, smart rhetoric and tight media control...the new kid on the block that was'nt going to take anymore nonsense from the old established political black siuts, young knight that was going to lead the country into a new era of open and honest politics. Trouble was it was all sound bites and no substance - we had 10 ten years of this vaccuous political actor who had no experience in politics at all apart from being a very skilled orator and a team that kept a very tight grip on the party and what they said to the media.

Blair, like Obama I suppose was a product of a population that was sick and tired of the previous 10 years of Conservative Government the British people would have elected any cupid stunt that came up and said "Hey guys look at me I'm different.... I'm going to change the way politics is done.... I'm not going to make the mistakes of the past" Hey pesto...we got Blair

The similarity of Blair and Obama is frightening..... listen out for all them lovely sound bites and then over time equate them to reality and then listen to the excuses as to why they could not happen. Blair was an absolute master at this.

Good comparison,

I remember Blair came to the USA to rally our people behind the war. He said some of the most stupid off the wall things but he said them with such grace and style, I could not help but like him.


I wish I could remember one line that he said....he was telling us why we need to worry for this Iraq problem and how we had all these hero’s about to make this big destiny and tried to name off a lot of our states, admitting he had never been there but always wanted to visit. There was almost nothing to what he was saying but it was said so goooood. :)
I should try to see if I can find that clip, it would probably still inspire me.

[The Scotsman]

Perhaps you didn't care for Tony Blair, it's obvious you lean toward the Conservatives .....:D Oh god save me from Tories, but you're right I thought Blair very distastful he was a slick piece of work but just a product of grooming...I guess if I had to choose I'd vote for our local Conservative candidate but I find the Tory leader, David Cameron deeply offensive and constructed in exactly the same vein as Blair...all style no substance, say anything to get into power.


As I understand it, because the other parties were regarded as utterly unfit for governance.

The Tories would probably not have fared so well in the last election if David Cameron had not detoxed the Tory brand, notwithstanding Labour's collapse. ....yup that about sums it up. Cameron is the UK's Obama. He's gonna lead us down the yellow brick road to the promised land as well.....total arsehole!!

Anyway... this is about you're guy and his future not about our knarlsed up country and its problems...

[Libsmasher]

I know what you are getting at! We've just had 10 years of Tony Blair and he was exactly the same when he first started out campaigning for Prime Minister. It was all cool outfits, big smiles and shirt sleeves, smart rhetoric and tight media control...the new kid on the block that was'nt going to take anymore nonsense from the old established political black siuts, young knight that was going to lead the country into a new era of open and honest politics. Trouble was it was all sound bites and no substance - we had 10 ten years of this vaccuous political actor who had no experience in politics at all apart from being a very skilled orator and a team that kept a very tight grip on the party and what they said to the media.

Blair, like Obama I suppose was a product of a population that was sick and tired of the previous 10 years of Conservative Government the British people would have elected any cupid stunt that came up and said "Hey guys look at me I'm different.... I'm going to change the way politics is done.... I'm not going to make the mistakes of the past" Hey pesto...we got Blair

The similarity of Blair and Obama is frightening..... listen out for all them lovely sound bites and then over time equate them to reality and then listen to the excuses as to why they could not happen. Blair was an absolute master at this.

Uh, comparing Blair with Obama is ridiculous. Blair is sophisticated, witty, urbane and very experienced in international affairs. Obama is a bizarre "perfect storm" fluke of the US political system, essentially a ghetto political hack who aspires to office about ten levels above his competence.

[NO Obamanation]

Uh, comparing Blair with Obama is ridiculous. Blair is sophisticated, witty, urbane and very experienced in international affairs. Obama is a bizarre "perfect storm" fluke of the US political system, essentially a ghetto political hack who aspires to office about ten levels above his competence.

I agree with this too.

But I think they are the same in the sense that people went goo goo over them, but for very different reasons.

[The Scotsman]

Uh, comparing Blair with Obama is ridiculous. Blair is sophisticated, witty, urbane and very experienced in international affairs. Obama is a bizarre "perfect storm" fluke of the US political system, essentially a ghetto political hack who aspires to office about ten levels above his competence.

:confused: Masher, Blair had no experience at all when he became Prime Minister especially with International Affairs!! None of the team of ministers that took over from the Major government had Ministerial experience at all... it was all policy on the hoof!!

[pocketfullofshells]

I have said this before to some one I work with and they about wanted to shoot me. They found it super rude of me to say, I thought it was just accurate.

I am glad to hear someone else besides myself see's this.

its rude to say that? odd, seems like just the truth for me. The Republican party would just rather fund it to no end and many hope to see some giant war to bring Jesus back...Freaks.

Dems are smart enough to know both sides have reasons to be mad, and both have reasons to work to find a deal.

[pocketfullofshells]

Uh, comparing Blair with Obama is ridiculous. Blair is sophisticated, witty, urbane and very experienced in international affairs. Obama is a bizarre "perfect storm" fluke of the US political system, essentially a ghetto political hack who aspires to office about ten levels above his competence.

Bush is not from the Ghetto...wait you said Obama...thats just dumb. Then again had you said bush 100 would have been 100,000,000 times

[NO Obamanation]

its rude to say that? odd, seems like just the truth for me. The Republican party would just rather fund it to no end and many hope to see some giant war to bring Jesus back...Freaks.

Dems are smart enough to know both sides have reasons to be mad, and both have reasons to work to find a deal.

I do not think most conservatives want Jesus type politics in the white house. If they did then they would have gone for Huckabee like crazy, but they didn't. They gravitated to Romney who is conservative (ish) but not as Jesus as his co pilot.

[top gun]

On a side note, did you notice he is now wearing a flag pin, but not just a normal one; it’s a Jewish American flag pin. Once his thinks he's got the patriot voters he will go back for the flag burners.

Obama can be all things to all people :)

What I really notice and hope everyone else notices is that Senator Obama doesn't wear a flag pin all that often (and the ones I've seen him wear were American flag ones).

Senator Obama doesn't allow neo-cons to bully him into any particular dress code. He wears what he wants when he wants and knows a simple pin is not patriotism.

And just because I may be a little older than some and know the history of "flag lapel pins" it's a very interesting story to pass along.

Flag lapel pins came into great vogue by REPUBLICANS testifying during the Watergate Investigation... remember the "I am not a crook"?

Well that was the Republican way to show... Of course they don't break into the opposing Parties offices and steal documents... CAN'T YOU SEE THIS LAPEL PIN!!!

[NO Obamanation]

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8S2JKG02&show_article=1

WATERLOO, Iowa (AP) - Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama said he doesn't wear the American flag lapel pin because it has become a substitute for "true patriotism" since the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks.
Asked about the decision Wednesday in an interview with KCRG-TV in Cedar Rapids, Iowa, the Illinois senator said he stopped doing so shortly after the attacks and instead hoped to show his patriotism by explaining his ideas to citizens.

"The truth is that right after 9-11 I had a pin," Obama said. "Shortly after 9-11, particularly because as we're talking about the Iraq war, that became a substitute for I think true patriotism, which is speaking out on issues that are of importance to our national security.

"I decided I won't wear that pin on my chest," he said in the interview. "Instead, I'm going to try to tell the American people what I believe will make this country great, and hopefully that will be a testament to my patriotism."

Apparently his testament did not work, and he is back to wearing the flag pin.


Personally I think it is weird that he made an issue out of the flag pin in the first place. Why would anyone think about an American flag pin and say I will not wear that pin on my chest to make some weird point.

Either way he is back to wearing one so I am assuming his other plan of showing the American people what he believed will make this country great as a testament to his patriotism didn’t work. Glad he had the pin for a plan B

[SW85]

IIRC, he also said at one point that he stopped wearing it because he'd lost it.

Whatever the case it's just proof positive that he's a slimeball machine political like Hillary, assaying one public face for one audience and quite another for the next. Though, to be fair, at least he doesn't assay phony accents like she did.

[Jeugenen]

ISRAELI COLONIZATION BY PALESTINIAN EMIGRATION

Israel occupies that land usurped at the end of World War II from Palestinian territory, by the victorious British, for the colonial establishment of the millions of undesirable Marxist Jews, pathetic refugees from Nazi German and the USSR, who were categorically denied immigration into the United Kingdom and Europe.

Historically, entire populations of Jews had previously been democratically expelled by England, France, Spain, and Germany forcefully after experiencing their culturally unacceptable patterns of anti-Christian and criminal competition. Their recent notorious adherence to Marxism revolutionary ideology stigmatized them further, as morally despicable and politically dangerous people, except in America where a large competitive population of this type had never previously been experienced.

Now, it is in the vital best interests of every nation in the World to formally accept Israel’s illegal existence as a permanent independent colony for all undesirable Jews from everywhere in World; after Israel and her supporting Diaspora formally apologizes, and justly and honorably agrees to fully compensate the Palestinians for all of their stolen territory, their destroyed infrastructure, and their losses of innocent lives.

Because it is the Palestinians, not the Israelis, who have been unjustly denied the inalienable Human rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness for the past 60 years; only the Palestinians have the moral power to sanction Israel’s right to permanently colonize Palestinian territory; and they shall grant that occupation right only after having received sufficient economic retribution to enable all desirable Palestinians to then happily emigrate and acquire education, property, and immigrant citizenship in those countries where their social and economic contributions are welcome.

[pocketfullofshells]

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8S2JKG02&show_article=1

WATERLOO, Iowa (AP) - Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama said he doesn't wear the American flag lapel pin because it has become a substitute for "true patriotism" since the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks.
Asked about the decision Wednesday in an interview with KCRG-TV in Cedar Rapids, Iowa, the Illinois senator said he stopped doing so shortly after the attacks and instead hoped to show his patriotism by explaining his ideas to citizens.

"The truth is that right after 9-11 I had a pin," Obama said. "Shortly after 9-11, particularly because as we're talking about the Iraq war, that became a substitute for I think true patriotism, which is speaking out on issues that are of importance to our national security.

"I decided I won't wear that pin on my chest," he said in the interview. "Instead, I'm going to try to tell the American people what I believe will make this country great, and hopefully that will be a testament to my patriotism."

Apparently his testament did not work, and he is back to wearing the flag pin.


Personally I think it is weird that he made an issue out of the flag pin in the first place. Why would anyone think about an American flag pin and say I will not wear that pin on my chest to make some weird point.

Either way he is back to wearing one so I am assuming his other plan of showing the American people what he believed will make this country great as a testament to his patriotism didn’t work. Glad he had the pin for a plan B

its becuse republicans cant win on facts and ideas, they need lame crap like this. Flag Pins, His Middle name, he is a secret Muslim, Racist who hates whites....its all just worthless crap because they can't win on the economy, War, Health Care, or any issue.

[NO Obamanation]

its becuse republicans cant win on facts and ideas, they need lame crap like this. Flag Pins, His Middle name, he is a secret Muslim, Racist who hates whites....its all just worthless crap because they can't win on the economy, War, Health Care, or any issue.

well I don’t think he is a Muslim :) but yeah I think its fair to analyze who he says he is since all we have to go on is what he says, since he has no real history except for some votes in Illinois that he doesn’t want to talk about.

[Libsmasher]

:confused: Masher, Blair had no experience at all when he became Prime Minister especially with International Affairs!! None of the team of ministers that took over from the Major government had Ministerial experience at all... it was all policy on the hoof!!

No matter how you cut it or slice it, Obama is no Tony Blair.

[American First]

I always said "Be careful what you wish for, you just may get it". Now you have Hillary out of the way and Obaca has won. Let the games begin. As an American I see a Black Man, too young, very little knowledge of what it takes to run a nation and an Old Sick Man who can't remember things well all looking for a VP to help them get into the White House. What a wonderful future to look forward to.

[American First]

Excuse me, Obama, what differenece Obaca, Obama still same nobody.

[Libsmasher]

I always said "Be careful what you wish for, you just may get it". Now you have Hillary out of the way and Obaca has won. Let the games begin. As an American I see a Black Man, too young, very little knowledge of what it takes to run a nation and an Old Sick Man who can't remember things well all looking for a VP to help them get into the White House. What a wonderful future to look forward to.

Uh, McCain is NOT sick, and and at least he knows how many states are in the union.

[NO Obamanation]

But McCain is not ......conservative, he is like a little right of Hillary on some things and probably left of her on others.

He is right compared to Obama though... but ugh.....He is just so boring and non inspiring.


And……. he back stabbed Romney at the Florida debate and I will never forgive him for it. It kills me that I might have to vote for him just because of that stupid idiot Obama.

[Libsmasher]

But McCain is not ......conservative, he is like a little right of Hillary on some things and probably left of her on others.

He is right compared to Obama though... but ugh.....He is just so boring and non inspiring.


And……. he back stabbed Romney at the Florida debate and I will never forgive him for it. It kills me that I might have to vote for him just because of that stupid idiot Obama.

SCREW the "inspiring" - the world has been devastated for hundreds of years by "inspiring" men. Let's try for "rational".

[NO Obamanation]

SCREW the "inspiring" - the world has been devastated for hundreds of years by "inspiring" men. Let's try for "rational".

Yeah I know but that doesnt change the fact that he back stabbed Romney, and Romney was my guy. It’s all forgivable if he makes Romney his running mate.

But...I am really starting to like Bobby Gendal of louisiana. So either one of them but if he picks another liberal like himself, I dont know what to do

[pocketfullofshells]

SCREW the "inspiring" - the world has been devastated for hundreds of years by "inspiring" men. Let's try for "rational".


back stabed him? why he say he had illigit black babies and would take away there peoples bibles? wait thats Rove... ")

[pocketfullofshells]

Uh, McCain is NOT sick, and and at least he knows how many states are in the union.

Do you? Get a life man, it was a misstatement due to being campaigning to long and you know it. Real issues to hard for you so you have to find dumb ones?

[SW85]

its becuse republicans cant win on facts and ideas, they need lame crap like this. Flag Pins, His Middle name, he is a secret Muslim, Racist who hates whites....its all just worthless crap because they can't win on the economy, War, Health Care, or any issue.

Once again, I point out that liberal Democrats took Hillary to task for doing more or less the exact same thing -- shuffling like a card shark between different accents and personalities for different audiences.

Camille Paglia, in fact, cited it as a chief reason she should be defeated.

[BigRob]

Israel needs to face up and deal with that fact it can't push everyone around, and do what it wants all the time. Go against the UN, and try to hold land it took in violation of the UN...and expect Security any time soon.

This is the actual history of how it happened.

The U.N. voted on the creation of two States: one for the Jewish inhabitants of the Palestine Mandate, and a second one for the Arab inhabitants. The Jewish residents accept, but the Arabs and Palestinians refuse the two State solution and the 1948 war is under way.

Israel wins the war, and wins a series of wars after that.

It is ironic to note that Palestinians that stayed in Israel have rights: they received full Israeli citizenship. As of 2/2002 there were 980,000 Arab Israeli Citizens (mostly Muslim, some are Christian) who have the right to vote and have parties of their own represented in the Knesset, Israel's parliament. It is also ironic to note that neither Jordan nor Egypt gave the Palestinians the option of an independant state, but Israel did in October 2000.

Note that from 1948 to 1967 both the West Bank and Gaza were not under Israeli administration. The West Bank was administered by Jordan, yet no Palestinian State was created. Similarly, the Gaza strip was under Egyptian control, yet no Palestinian State came into being.

In the 1978 Peace deal with Egypt, Israel tried to return the Gaza Strip to them as well, Egypt refused.


So the real facts are, the UN mandated the creation of Israel. The Arabs refused to acknowledge that they had a right to exist and proceeded to fight a series of wars, which they lost. And during this time Israel did not control both areas of the land now in question, and all of these times the other Arab states refused to create a Palestinian state. The irony is comical.

What needs to happen is that the Arab nations need to face up to the fact that they have lost the war, and have all along been holding back any real peace process or any chance at a Palestinian state, not Israel.

[BigRob]

Yeah I know but that doesnt change the fact that he back stabbed Romney, and Romney was my guy. It’s all forgivable if he makes Romney his running mate.

But...I am really starting to like Bobby Gendal of louisiana. So either one of them but if he picks another liberal like himself, I dont know what to do

Jindal, not Gendal. And being from Louisiana I can assure you that Jindal has accomplished nothing meaningful as Governor, and he can barely get along with his own legislature. I do not think he is a wise VP pick at all if McCain wants to actually win the general election.

[NO Obamanation]

Jindal, not Gendal. And being from Louisiana I can assure you that Jindal has accomplished nothing meaningful as Governor, and he can barely get along with his own legislature. I do not think he is a wise VP pick at all if McCain wants to actually win the general election.

Ah thank you for the proper spelling. I used google and this is what it came up with. I guess I can not always trust Google.

He seems young and only half way through a term, so not enough experience yet anyways. The conservative side of politics raves about him and his conservative values, though I admit I have not heard any examples, just that he is a strong conservative.

Do you like Romney? I liked him from the start. I used to like McCain too but I saw how dirty he and the horrid huckabumb were to Romney and that was it for me. McCain did dirty to Romney like Bush did to McCain in 2000.

I think this whole political year should be scratched and let’s do a do-over.

I bet if we could, the Dems would go for Edwards and the republicans would go for Romney.

[BigRob]

Ah thank you for the proper spelling. I used google and this is what it came up with. I guess I can not always trust Google.

He seems young and only half way through a term, so not enough experience yet anyways. The conservative side of politics raves about him and his conservative values, though I admit I have not heard any examples, just that he is a strong conservative.

Do you like Romney? I liked him from the start. I used to like McCain too but I saw how dirty he and the horrid huckabumb were to Romney and that was it for me. McCain did dirty to Romney like Bush did to McCain in 2000.

I think this whole political year should be scratched and let’s do a do-over.

I bet if we could, the Dems would go for Edwards and the republicans would go for Romney.

Yea, I was a Romney fan from the get go. I never could stand Huckabee at all, I thought Romney would have been the best candidate for the Republicans. I do not know if he will get offered a VP spot (Michigan would be a swing state though) but I hope McCain picks someone with a lot more conservative resume than he has.