Libs admit capitalism works!

[NO Obamanation]

When I first heard about this I was shocked that we had a special cafe for senators. I was extra mad that tax payers had to pay for a portion of it. But I was very pleased to find out that it was a socialistic entity that failed miserably and they voted and they passed to privatize it because the other cafes for other important government people had already done so and finally started making a profit. I wish they would see how it works in the real world too, not just in their special cafes.





http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/08/AR2008060801765.html?hpid=topnews

[pocketfullofshells]

Sorry did you say libs of Commies? last I checked liberals do believe in capitalism. Your starting to sound like Lib a bit....

[GenSeneca]

last I checked liberals do believe in capitalism.

Check again... And pay particular attention to Liberal Legislation.

9d53lspwDeI

Waters: What guarantees are you going to give this Liberal about how that will reduce the cost of uh, of uh, gasoline at the pump... If we let you drill where you say you want to drill?

Shell exec: I can guarantee to the American people, because of the inaction of the United States Congress, ever increasing prices - unless the demand comes down - and the $5 will look like a very low price, in the years to come, if we are prohibited from finding new reserves, new opportunities to increase supplies.

Waters: And guess what this Liberal will be all about? This Liberal will be all about socializing... ah, um, [Pause] Will be about...basically.....taking over. And the Government running all of your companies.
------------------------------------------------
That Liberal doesn't have much faith in Capitalism.

[NO Obamanation]

Sorry did you say libs of Commies? last I checked liberals do believe in capitalism. Your starting to sound like Lib a bit....

I do not think I can agree with you. I would agree your average mainstream democrat believes in capitalism, but I believe that Lib’s are far more in to socializing things. I see a huge difference in a mainstream democrat and a liberal.

[NO Obamanation]

Check again... And pay particular attention to Liberal Legislation.

9d53lspwDeI

Waters: What guarantees are you going to give this Liberal about how that will reduce the cost of uh, of uh, gasoline at the pump... If we let you drill where you say you want to drill?

Shell exec: I can guarantee to the American people, because of the inaction of the United States Congress, ever increasing prices - unless the demand comes down - and the $5 will look like a very low price, in the years to come, if we are prohibited from finding new reserves, new opportunities to increase supplies.

Waters: And guess what this Liberal will be all about? This Liberal will be all about socializing... ah, um, [Pause] Will be about...basically.....taking over. And the Government running all of your companies.
------------------------------------------------
That Liberal doesn't have much faith in Capitalism.

Thank you, you saved me from looking this up :)

[SW85]

In a closed-door meeting with Democrats in November, she was practically heckled by her peers for suggesting it, senators and aides said.

"I know what happens with privatization. Workers lose jobs, and the next generation of workers make less in wages. These are some of the lowest-paid workers in our country, and I want to help them," Sen. Sherrod Brown (D-Ohio), a staunch labor union ally, said recently.

This was the part that caught my eye.

Even though they know from personal experience that the dining services there were failing and were kept alive only by massive suffusions of undeserved taxpayer dollars, some of them still refused to do the logical thing.

[Truth-Bringer]

When I first heard about this I was shocked that we had a special cafe for senators. I was extra mad that tax payers had to pay for a portion of it. But I was very pleased to find out that it was a socialistic entity that failed miserably and they voted and they passed to privatize it because the other cafes for other important government people had already done so and finally started making a profit. I wish they would see how it works in the real world too, not just in their special cafes.

It's not the first time socialist politicians have been proven wrong. Here's another great example:


Garbage Mess: Private Sector is Cleaning Up

By Geoffrey Segal

Remember the "garbage crisis" of the 1980’s, when the forlorn garbage barge, full of New York city’s trash, cruised up and down the East Coast looking for somewhere to dump its load. While it littered the headlines a decade ago, you hardly hear about it anymore. In fact, the "crisis" of insufficient landfills went away, almost unnoticed, and the nation now has more landfill space than ever before. Thanks to a government program? Nope. In addition to recycling programs, a factor that played a significant role in addressing this crisis was that the private sector got into the business of running solid-waste disposal facilities.

Private sector landfill management has dramatically improved the efficiency of landfill operations, lessened their environmental impact, and saved cities countless amounts of money in the process. However, a handful of governors want to derail this move in a classic NIMBY (Not In My Back Yard) move, by re-initiating "flow control", the placement of limitations on the interstate trade of trash.

Over the last decade, city and county governments have turned over their solid-waste operations to private companies at a vigorous pace. According to a recent survey by solid-waste consulting firm, R.W. Beck, 27 percent of municipalities with populations greater than 100,000 are considering privatizing their landfill. Another survey showed that more than half (17) of the nations 30 largest cities have already privatized their landfills, and two others contract out their landfill operations.
But why the sudden change? What gives the landfill industry the edge that lets it grow so fast? A major contributing factor is that private firms are much better situated to address the regulatory and financial challenges of the modern solid-waste industry.

In 1976 federal regulations were established to minimize environmental impacts of landfill operation. But two results of these regulations have been rising landfill costs and the closure of "unfit" sites--mostly thousands of small government-owned landfills. This dramatic increase in capital and operational costs of solid-waste disposal made larger, regional "megafills" more cost effective and accelerated privatization.

While larger landfills are more environmentally friendly because of the reduction in the amount of smaller sites, they also cost a great deal more money to build. This is a difficult hurdle for local governments to overcome; however, a solid waste company can finance the megafill, find an acceptable location, and build and operate it serving any willing governments in the region.

Private companies are interested in profit and focus a great deal of attention on efforts to reduce costs, and thus, improve efficiency. Private companies can also raise capital more easily than local governments, without the use of unpopular taxes to raise revenue. Finally, private landfills are held to a higher standard of environmental regulations than local governments. And municipal and county contracts hold landfill operating companies accountable for inadequate performance.

Rest of Article Here (http://www.reason.org/commentaries/segal_20000912.shtml)

[Truth-Bringer]

duplicate post

[9sublime]

I'm what people like libsmasher and Obamanation would class as liberals, because of their apparent obsession with grouping people into boxes. However, while being a "liberal", I believe capitalism works pretty well - especially compared to most other socioeconomic models.

[pocketfullofshells]

I do not think I can agree with you. I would agree your average mainstream democrat believes in capitalism, but I believe that Lib’s are far more in to socializing things. I see a huge difference in a mainstream democrat and a liberal.

name a True Capitalist...one that wants everything private. its not many. Most want and believe in Capitalism, but don't agree to what exeunt. Private Military? I don't see any Republicans for that. Private Roads only? Not many for that....its a scale. And on issues like Health care the Private capitalist system Clearly is Failing on a key issue for Americanised if they can't fix it , then its time to let someone else try. Just like if the government can't run something, they often turn to privatizing it later.

I see the whole US system as no longer any type of real Free market in almost any feild, its a rich mans playground where the ideas of most mean nothing. Free markets only work when they are done openly, Fairly, and honestly. American Companies today lack all of those in great amounts.

[NO Obamanation]

I'm what people like libsmasher and Obamanation would class as liberals, because of their apparent obsession with grouping people into boxes. However, while being a "liberal", I believe capitalism works pretty well - especially compared to most other socioeconomic models.

Then I would not call you a classic liberal, I can not speak for Libsmasher though

[NO Obamanation]

name a True Capitalist...one that wants everything private. its not many. Most want and believe in Capitalism, but don't agree to what exeunt. Private Military? I don't see any Republicans for that. Private Roads only? Not many for that....its a scale. And on issues like Health care the Private capitalist system Clearly is Failing on a key issue for Americanised if they can't fix it , then its time to let someone else try. Just like if the government can't run something, they often turn to privatizing it later.

I see the whole US system as no longer any type of real Free market in almost any feild, its a rich mans playground where the ideas of most mean nothing. Free markets only work when they are done openly, Fairly, and honestly. American Companies today lack all of those in great amounts.





I am talking about basic socialism that the liberals keep trying to shove down our throat. National health care for example. My GOD these morons can not even run a freaking cafeteria without going millions of dollars in debt and they want to mess with health care?

[Popeye]

I am talking about basic socialism that the liberals keep trying to shove down our throat. National health care for example. My GOD these morons can not even run a freaking cafeteria without going millions of dollars in debt and they want to mess with health care?

What about the billions in corporate welfare US companies receive every year? That's certainly not an example of true capitalism either, yet I don't hear a peep out of you, or Libs, about that.

[NO Obamanation]

What about the billions in corporate welfare US companies receive every year? That's certainly not an example of true capitalism either, yet I don't hear a peep out of you, or Libs, about that.

I am against it. I complained about the farm bill. I think I complained here, I know for
sure I complained in my real life. I don’t like the farm bills, I don’t like subsidizing, I
don’t like tax breaks. But I don’t like double taxing either or triple taxing.

The whole system is warped and stupid. Serious reform must happen.

[Federal Farmer]

What about the billions in corporate welfare US companies receive every year? That's certainly not an example of true capitalism either, yet I don't hear a peep out of you, or Libs, about that.

Before you go on about the "billions in corporate welfare", you might want to consider the HUNDREDS of billions that are going to real welfare, to support people who simply refuse to even attempt to support themselves. At least the corporations provide products, services, jobs, and more importantly, tax dollars to the treasury by hiring and paying their employees, contractors, and sub-contractors. Would it be fair to presume that you also believe that the "evil oil companies" are "screwing" us? Before you answer that one, be sure to check your 401K, as well as any other stock holdings you may have to be sure that you're not holding any oil stocks.

[NO Obamanation]

Before you go on about the "billions in corporate welfare", you might want to consider the HUNDREDS of billions that are going to real welfare, to support people who simply refuse to even attempt to support themselves. At least the corporations provide products, services, jobs, and more importantly, tax dollars to the treasury by hiring and paying their employees, contractors, and sub-contractors. Would it be fair to presume that you also believe that the "evil oil companies" are "screwing" us? Before you answer that one, be sure to check your 401K, as well as any other stock holdings you may have to be sure that you're not holding any oil stocks.

I work for the evil school district full of evil Lib’s and we all made a killing on our retirement plans all because of dirty oil!

Just kidding, I mean I did make a good profit this year, but the oil companies are not evil and oil is not “very” dirty

[Andy]

name a True Capitalist...one that wants everything private. its not many. Most want and believe in Capitalism, but don't agree to what exeunt. Private Military? I don't see any Republicans for that. Private Roads only? Not many for that....its a scale. And on issues like Health care the Private capitalist system Clearly is Failing on a key issue for Americanised if they can't fix it , then its time to let someone else try. Just like if the government can't run something, they often turn to privatizing it later.

I see the whole US system as no longer any type of real Free market in almost any feild, its a rich mans playground where the ideas of most mean nothing. Free markets only work when they are done openly, Fairly, and honestly. American Companies today lack all of those in great amounts.

Ah... you know I hadn't thought of that, but I'm not even sure if the military would be included. Ownership of means of productions. What product does the military produce exactly?

That said, I'm a constitutionalist. Therefore the military is the single sole duty of the federal government. So I am ok with it being government controlled. It's everything else in the country I'm against being under government control.

Roads are a product, not a means of production. Ownership of the product is not in question. It's the private corporations that build the roads, that is capitalism.

The government can't run anything. I have yet to see a single instance where government running X business was able to do so well.

Here's my problem. Every single time government tries to run something, the predictable, inevitable failure comes. Yet... here we are thinking 'it might work this time!'... why? Why do you think it will work, when it never has in the history of the planet?

Now granted you do have a point. Why is it, that in some cases that market seems stacked? I would suggest to you, it isn't the free market that's failed, but rather the government's intrusion into the market.

Why prior to WW2 was their dozens of independent car manufactures, and after there is 6 or less? Answer, government regulations. Today it's nearly impossible to start a business making cars in the US. So much regulations, so much red tape, so much restrictions and mandates... a small independent manufacture doesn't stand a chance. So we have the 'big three' who's only competition is from foreign companies who's native governments support them instead of hinder them.

I suggest the Health Care industry is the same. There is so many regulations, so much red type, so much government control in the health care industry now, that we are paying the prices.

When nationalized health care is passed, it will be the same boondoggle it is everywhere else it's tried, and end up like MassHealth.

[Andy]

What about the billions in corporate welfare US companies receive every year? That's certainly not an example of true capitalism either, yet I don't hear a peep out of you, or Libs, about that.

Are you kidding? I've been harping about corporations getting money from the government on this forum for ages, many times a week normally. I likely have complained about that more than most liberals have.

The problem is.... do you know what corporation welfare is yourself? Let me ask you this: In another thread a person here posted that the federal government should hand out more money for research of (and I quote) "Green Alternative Energy Research".

Do you agree? What do you think that is? That's corporate welfare.

When the Electric car deal of the late 90s came around, that they made that lame movie 'who killed the electric car?', our government gave GM, millions to research batteries for electric cars. Do you agree with funding research to make alternative fuel cars? What do you think that is? It's corporate welfare for GM.

What do you think Ethanol subsidies are? What do you think Hydrogen Car funding is? Remember the 'freedom car'?

Bottom line: Liberals complain about corporate welfare while they support it and pass it. The rest of us are actually against it. You don't see conservatives asking for government hand outs to corporations. At least you won't see this one.

[Andy]

Before you go on about the "billions in corporate welfare", you might want to consider the HUNDREDS of billions that are going to real welfare, to support people who simply refuse to even attempt to support themselves. At least the corporations provide products, services, jobs, and more importantly, tax dollars to the treasury by hiring and paying their employees, contractors, and sub-contractors. Would it be fair to presume that you also believe that the "evil oil companies" are "screwing" us? Before you answer that one, be sure to check your 401K, as well as any other stock holdings you may have to be sure that you're not holding any oil stocks.

Most of the people at my work have stock in oil companies through their 401K. They were joking about how those blasted corps should be shot. Then I got the investment hand out, and pointed out they were making good money off the evil corps. Pretty funny to see the look on their faces.

[NO Obamanation]

Ah... you know I hadn't thought of that, but I'm not even sure if the military would be included. Ownership of means of productions. What product does the military produce exactly?

That said, I'm a constitutionalist. Therefore the military is the single sole duty of the federal government. So I am ok with it being government controlled. It's everything else in the country I'm against being under government control.

Roads are a product, not a means of production. Ownership of the product is not in question. It's the private corporations that build the roads, that is capitalism.

The government can't run anything. I have yet to see a single instance where government running X business was able to do so well.

Here's my problem. Every single time government tries to run something, the predictable, inevitable failure comes. Yet... here we are thinking 'it might work this time!'... why? Why do you think it will work, when it never has in the history of the planet?

Now granted you do have a point. Why is it, that in some cases that market seems stacked? I would suggest to you, it isn't the free market that's failed, but rather the government's intrusion into the market.

Why prior to WW2 was their dozens of independent car manufactures, and after there is 6 or less? Answer, government regulations. Today it's nearly impossible to start a business making cars in the US. So much regulations, so much red tape, so much restrictions and mandates... a small independent manufacture doesn't stand a chance. So we have the 'big three' who's only competition is from foreign companies who's native governments support them instead of hinder them.

I suggest the Health Care industry is the same. There is so many regulations, so much red type, so much government control in the health care industry now, that we are paying the prices.

When nationalized health care is passed, it will be the same boondoggle it is everywhere else it's tried, and end up like MassHealth.



I agree with you Andy. I tried to reply but I could not get my words to come out in a way that anyone could understand. You wrote much of what I was thinking. Thanks :)

[9sublime]

Then I would not call you a classic liberal, I can not speak for Libsmasher though

I'm pretty sure a classic liberal would believe in free market capitalism.