Bush US: Hypocrisy Personified & Astounding

[Shadow]

Do as I Say, Not as I Do"
Russia, Georgia and Bush
By ROBERT FANTINA

One is rendered almost speechless by the astounding hypocrisy of President George Bush. It has been bad enough for the last seven and a half years to hear his constant lies and to watch his fervent worship of the almighty dollar and those who can best enrich his elite, neocon circle. But by making the statements that he has uttered in the last few days he has shown once again his limitless capacity for hypocrisy.

Russia and Georgia are currently engulfed in a tense situation that has brought violence to South Ossetia, an area of Georgia that has been quasi-independent, but with no international recognition, for years. Russia has stepped in, ostensibly to prevent attempts by Georgia to regain the region. The skirmish has quickly escalated to a deadly war.

Enter Mr. Bush. On August 15, in response to the rising tensions between Georgia and Russia, he made this incredible statement: “Bullying and intimidation are not acceptable ways to conduct foreign policy in the twenty-first century.”

Let’s see now; if one is not mistaken, one could say that March 19, 2003 was part of the twenty-first century. That is the day that Mr. Bush used ‘bullying and intimidation’ to a horrific degree to ‘conduct foreign policy.’ That day marked the beginning of the ‘Shock and Awe’ campaign that has killed over 1,000,000 Iraqis, displaced millions more and killed over 4,000 U.S. soldiers and maimed tens of thousands more. Mr. Bush is correct: bullying and intimidation have no place in foreign policy, but his words are rendered empty, insincere and meaningless by his actions.

Yet he continued: “Georgia's sovereignty and territorial integrity must be respected.” Why Georgia’s and not Iraq’s, one might wonder. And does this U.S. respect for ‘sovereignty and territorial integrity’ extend to Iran? What about Cuba? Georgia, one should note, has no oil. Does that render its sovereignty and territorial integrity’ more likely to be respected by the U.S? Cuba, of course, has no oil either, but one must always keep a close eye on the wishes of the Cuban-American voting block.

Mr. Bush was not finished there; he had more to say on the subject. “To begin to repair the damage to its relations with the United States, Europe and other nations and to begin restoring its place in the world, Russia must keep its word and act to end this crisis.” The hypocrisy of this comment is almost too obvious to mention. When Mr. Bush and his yes-men faced a skeptical United Nations and told them of U.S. plans to invade Iraq, overthrow its government and occupy that nation, Russia was one of the many U.S. allies who refused to participate in this international crime. Since that time international surveys show a deep hatred and abiding distrust of the U.S; Mr. Bush is often seen as the second most dangerous man in the world, with Osama bin Laden being the only person considered worse. One must wonder why that is, since Mr. Bush’s potential for destruction far exceeds bin Laden’s, and Mr. Bush’s record of murder and terrorism makes bin Laden’s seem like a mild fairy tale. Yet Mr. Bush feels the moral imperative to lecture Russia about its damaged international relationships, and restoring its place in the world. Whoever succeeds Mr. Bush will have his hands full trying to accomplish that weighty task for the U.S.



In order to assist Georgia in its current difficulties with Russia, Mr. Bush is sending ‘massive’ humanitarian aid. Iraq, which lost vital services when its infrastructure was destroyed during the initial bombing, continues to struggle to provide its people with such basics as drinking water and electricity. Instead of humanitarian aid, Congress continues to provide funding for tanks, guns, bullets and bombs, and other vehicles of terrorism, death and destruction.

In order “to demonstrate our solidarity with the Georgian people,” Mr. Bush is sending Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice to Paris to assist with diplomatic efforts to end the tensions. This is the woman who, in 2006, rejected any negotiations with Iran or Syria saying the following: “If they have an interest in a stable Iraq, they will do it anyway,” ‘it’ referring to assisting to stabilize Iraq. Will she now go to Paris and say that if Georgia and Russia have any interest in ending tensions, they will ‘do it anyway’? Ms. Rice has not thus far demonstrated any appreciable skills in negotiation. She is also the one who assured the world that the addition of 30,000 U.S. soldiers to terrorize the people of Iraq was not an escalation, but merely an ‘augmentation.’ One wonders just how effective she will be in Paris.

After Russia, France and some of the other traditional allies of the U.S. took a pass on joining the‘Coalition of the Drilling,’ Mr. Bush and Congress considered ways of punishing them, from renaming French Fries ‘Freedom Fries’ (after approving the U.S. invasion of Iraq, why did Congress want to further humiliate itself with this farce?), to preventing the offending nations from participating in the lucrative contracts that were planned as the U.S. rebuilt Iraq in its own model, with its oil flowing to the U.S. Neither threat was sufficient to bring in these wayward allies, so perhaps Mr. Bush bided his time and now is able to punish Russia.

It has been several years since Russia and the U.S. were sworn enemies. But under Mr. Bush’s regime, tensions have escalated; the Russia-Georgia conflict is only one area of concern. The Iraq war strained relations between the two nations, and now the U.S.’ decision to place a U.S. missile interceptor base in Poland is further irritating these already tense relations. But Mr. Bush has empire on the mind; a new base in Poland is another stepping stone. He has thus far been thwarted in his plans to build permanent bases in Iraq, but the door on that attempt is far from closed.

One looks to inauguration day, 2009 for an end to the grave danger Mr. Bush has dragged the world into, but that day may only mark the start of four more disastrous years, if Republican candidate Senator John McCain is elected president. Should that be the case, the world can expect more war, more belligerency and more empire building, while U.S. citizens continue to sink into poverty as homes are foreclosed and jobs move overseas. The last seven and a half years have been ugly for the world, thanks to Mr. Bush and the people who elected him . A victory in the election by Democratic candidate Senator Barack Obama will not be a panacea, but will at least provide some relief to the catastrophes of the Bush reign of terror.

Source:

http://www.counterpunch.org/fantina08162008.html


(meanwhile the US propaganda machine against Russia is in full force and Georgia's ( a puppet of the US) is being totally ignored. If one dares to listen to something like CNN.... one quickly realizes how far fetched their "news" is. Hardly a glimmer of fact or truths being stated for public consumption. Little wonder the US population is so bloody uninformed and dumbed down. Little wonder the US has lost any positive standing on the world stage. Until the US goes totally broke..... will the reality of its ugly ways hit home.)

Disastrous times indeed. And as usual...... where ever there is a hot spot...... the US is in there like a dirty shirt., either causing it, fascilitating it, or compounding it. (under the guise -pretense of desiring constructive solutions. How else can it support its military complex and militant premise?)

SHAME ON THE US. (if shame can even be felt by it.) It might be too far gone now in order for any new leadership to restore credibility and integrety. THe new and current US is truly a rogue nation with WMD that it has a history of using and would use again in a New York moment.

[Shadow]

The signing on August 14 of an agreement between the governments of the United States and Poland to deploy on Polish soil US ‘interceptor missiles’ is the most dangerous move towards nuclear war the world has seen since the 1962 Cuba Missile crisis. Far from a defensive move to protect European NATO states from a Russian nuclear attack, as military strategists have pointed out, the US missiles in Poland pose a total existential threat to the future existence of the Russian nation. The Russian Government has repeatedly warned of this since US plans were first unveiled in early 2007. Now, despite repeated diplomatic attempts by Russia to come to an agreement with Washington, the Bush Administration, in the wake of a humiliating US defeat in Georgia, has pressured the Government of Poland to finally sign the pact. The consequences could be unthinkable for Europe and the planet.

The preliminary deal to place elements of the US global missile defense shield was signed by Polish Deputy Foreign Minister Andrzej Kremer and US chief negotiator John Rood on August 14. Under the terms, Washington plans to place 10 interceptor missiles in Poland coupled with a radar system in the Czech Republic, which it ludicrously claims are intended to counter possible attacks from what it calls "rogue states," including Iran.

To get the agreement Washington agreed to reinforce Poland's air defenses. The deal is still to be approved by the two countries' governments and Poland's parliament. Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk said in televised remarks that "the events in the Caucasus show clearly that such security guarantees are indispensable." The US-Polish missile talks had been dragging for months before recent hostilities in Georgia.

The Bush White House Press spoksperson, Dona Perino stated, officially, "We believe that missile defense is a substantial contribution to NATO's collective security." Officials say the interceptor base in Poland will be opened by 2012. The Czech Republic signed a deal to host a US radar on July 8.

The signing now insures an escalation of tensions between Russia and NATO and a new Cold War arms race in full force. It is important for readers to understand, as I detail painstakingly in my book, to be released this autumn, Full Spectrum Dominance: The National Security State and the Spread of Democracy, the ability of one of two opposing sides to put anti-missile missiles to within 90 miles of the territory of the other in even a primitive first-generation anti-missile missile array gives that side virtual victory in a nuclear balance of power and forces the other to consider unconditional surrender or to pre-emptively react by launching its nuclear strike before 2012. Senior Russian lawmakers said on Friday the agreement would damage security in Europe, and reiterated that Russia would now have to take steps to ensure its security.

Andrei Klimov, deputy head of the Russian State Duma's international affairs committee, said the deal was designed to demonstrate Warsaw's "loyalty to the US and receive material benefits. For the Americans, it is an opportunity to expand its military presence across the world, including closer to Russia. For NATO, this is an additional risk...many NATO countries are unhappy with this, including the Germans and the French."

Klimov called the agreement "a step back" toward the Cold War.

Russian response

The US plans to deploy a radar in the Czech Republic and 10 interceptor missiles in northern Poland as part of a US-controlled missile shield for Europe and North America, has been officially sold under the ludicrous argument that it is against possible attacks from "rogue states," including Iran. Last Spring then Russian President Vladimir Putin exposed the shallowness of the US propaganda line by offering a startled President Bush that Russia would offer the US use of Russian leased radar facilities in Azerbaijan on the Iran border to far better monitor Iran missile launches. The Bush Administration simply ignored the offer, exposing that their real target is Russia not "rogue states like Iran." Russia rightly views deployment of the US missile shield as a threat to its national security.

More here:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=9836

[Shadow]

This Time, the World Is Not Buying It


by Paul Craig Roberts
The success of the Bush Regime's propaganda, lies, and deception with gullible and inattentive Americans since 9/11 has made it difficult for intelligent, aware people to be optimistic about the future of the United States. For almost 8 years the US media has served as Ministry of Propaganda for a war criminal regime. Americans incapable of thinking for themselves, reading between the lines, or accessing foreign media on the Internet have been brainwashed.

As the Nazi propagandist, Joseph Goebbels, said, it is easy to deceive a people. You just tell them they have been attacked and wave the flag.

It certainly worked with Americans.



The gullibility and unconcern of the American people has had many victims. There are 1.25 million dead Iraqis. There are 4 million displaced Iraqis. No one knows how many are maimed and orphaned.

Iraq is in ruins, its infrastructure destroyed by American bombs, missiles, and helicopter gunships.

We do not know the death toll in Afghanistan, but even the American puppet regime protests the repeated killings of women and children by US and NATO troops.

We don't know what the death toll would be in Iran if Darth Cheney and the neocons succeed in their plot with Israel to bomb Iran, perhaps with nuclear weapons.

What we do know is that all this murder and destruction has no justification and is evil. It is the work of evil men who have no qualms about lying and deceiving in order to kill innocent people to achieve their undeclared agenda.

That such evil people have control over the United States government and media damns the American public for eternity.

America will never recover from the shame and dishonor heaped upon her by the neoconned Bush Regime.

The success of the neocon propaganda has been so great that the opposition party has not lifted a finger to rein in the Bush Regime's criminal actions. Even Obama, who promises "change" is too intimidated by the neocon's success in brainwashing the American population to do what his supporters hoped he would do and lead us out of the shame in which the neoconned Bush Regime has imprisoned us.

This about sums up the pessimistic state in which I existed prior to the go-ahead given by the Bush Regime to its puppet in Georgia to ethnically cleanse South Ossetia of Russians in order to defuse the separatist movement. The American media, aka, the Ministry of Lies and Deceit, again accommodated the criminal Bush Regime and proclaimed "Russian invasion" to cover up the ethnic cleansing of Russians in South Ossetia by the Georgian military assault.

Only this time, the rest of the world didn't buy it. The many years of lies – 9/11, Iraqi weapons of mass destruction, al Qaeda connections, yellowcake, anthrax attack, Iranian nukes, "the United States doesn't torture," the bombings of weddings, funerals, and children's soccer games, Abu Ghraib, renditions, Guantanamo, various fabricated "terrorist plots," the determined assault on civil liberties – have taken their toll on American credibility. No one outside America any longer believes the US media or the US government.

The rest of the world reported the facts – an assault on Russian civilians by American- and Israeli-trained and -equipped Georgian troops.

The Bush Regime, overcome by hubris, expected Russia to accept this act of American hegemony. But the Russians did not, and the Georgian military was sent fleeing for its life.

The neoconned Republican response to the Russian failure to follow the script and to be intimidated by the "unipower" was so imbecilic that it shattered the brainwashing to which Americans had succumbed.

McCain declared: "In the 21st century nations don't invade other nations." Imagine the laughs Jon Stewart will get out of this on the Daily Show. In the early years of the 21st century the United States has already invaded two countries and has been beating the drums for attacking a third. President Bush, the chief invader of the 21st century, echoed McCain's claim that nations don't invade other nations.

This dissonant claim shocked even brainwashed Americans, as readers' emails reveal. If in the 21st century countries don't invade other countries, what is Bush doing in Iraq and Afghanistan, and what are the naval armadas and propaganda arrayed against Iran about?

Have two of the worst warmongers of modern times – Bush and McCain – called off the US/Israeli attack on Iran? If McCain is elected president, is he going to pull US troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan as "nations don't invade other nations," or is President Bush going to beat him to it?

We all know the answer.

The two stooges are astonished that the Americans have taught hegemony to Russians, who were previously operating, naively perhaps, on the basis of good will.

Suddenly the Western Europeans have realized that being allied with the United States is like holding a tiger by the tail. No European country wants to be hurled into war with Russia. Germany, France, and Italy must be thanking God they blocked Georgia's membership in NATO.

The Ukraine, where a sick nationalism has taken hold funded by the neocon National Endowment for Democracy, will be the next conflict between American pretensions and Russia. Russia is being taught by the neocons that freeing the constituent parts of its empire has not resulted in their independence but in their absorption into the American Empire.

Unless enough Americans can overcome their brainwashed state and the rigged Diebold voting machines, turn out the imbecilic Republicans and hold the neoconservatives accountable for their crimes against humanity, a crazed neocon US government will provoke nuclear war with Russia.

The neoconservatives represent the greatest danger ever faced by the United States and the world. Humanity has no greater enemy.





source:http://www.antiwar.com/roberts/?articleid=13309

[Shadow]

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d17/mgb2005/AmericanImperialism.jpg


the current crisis is about US expansionism , NOT Russian aggression. Georgia was encouraged to act this way by the US. ..... A US that is rapidly failing at even it's preferred activity of choice: WARS.

[Libsmasher]

Re "bullying". Slapping down a neighborhood bully (neighborhood: middle east; bully: saddam) is bullying??! Uh, noooooooo......

The number of people upset that Bush deposed one of the worst wold tyrants since the end of WWII continues to amaze and amuse me. :)

[Libsmasher]

[

the current crisis is about US expansionism , NOT Russian aggression. Georgia was encouraged to act this way by the US. ..... A US that is rapidly failing at even it's preferred activity of choice: WARS.

A pure refined Bushophobic rant, with not a single shred of evidence. :D

[Shadow]

The number of people upset that Bush deposed one of the worst wold tyrants since the end of WWII continues to amaze and amuse me.~~ LibSMASHER.


... To be sure. Particularly when bush HIMSELF stated that he was NOT INTO REGIME CHANGE. ( one of his many lies about INVADING AND ATTACKING IRAQ. ) Lies that slaughter that many PEOPLE are damned amusing, aren't they???


Oh and remember when he said that "Military option was the last option." lie???


Nope, what is ASTOUNDING is the number of AMERICANS that support a LYING , CRIMINAL with a midget IQ as their warmongering leader. It is even more astonishing to see how much in love americans are with WARS , POWER ,& GREED .


IF he wanted Iraq (oil and positioning in the ME for more wars) that bad.........and he DID..... why not just say it?? Why not tell the truth?? And don't say ;Prove that he lied. As if it is not obvious to the bush/war supporters by now,..........then they are truely intellectually challenged and /or BRAINWASHED by their lying media.& Gov.


Can hardly believe what one hears on CNN about the crisis that GEOGIA (endorsed by the US) caused. You would think that Russia invaded Georgia WITHOUT provocation.............( something like bush did in Iraq ) .......... all the while promoting the image that Georgia was the poor victim. Good for Russia for biting back. Russia and the rest of the world KNOWS exactly what the US is up to. It is the US BULLYING that must stop. Not what the US claims.....which is totally fabricated.



Where is the integrety of the US and its population??? Down the toilet along with its economy?


Furthermore, it does not take a full military invasion to depose a leader IF that was the MAIN OBJECTIVE. But the bushies are just too stupid to figure that out...........and live by the "I WANT NOW " principle. Also , there are a number of other despot leaders on this planet , but they are fine as either they are in the US pocket OR their nation has nothing the US wants ........YET.

Keep laughing LibSMASHER. The situation is FAR from amusing now........as the US is the biggest and REAL threat to the world , let alone peace. If you cannot see imperialistic expansionism as being the primary objective of the USG......... then the US is in more serious trouble / deluded than appears on the surface.

(an aside, but your user name is very revealing. :p

[NO Obamanation]

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d17/mgb2005/AmericanImperialism.jpg


the current crisis is about US expansionism , NOT Russian aggression. Georgia was encouraged to act this way by the US. ..... A US that is rapidly failing at even it's preferred activity of choice: WARS.

That is one of the most disgusting pictures I have seen posted, EVER!

[Shadow]

Mr. Bush, Enough!!

By Lisa KARPOVA

14/08/08 "Pravda" -- -So you have the colossal audacity, Mr. Bush, to “warn” Russia to pull back? As the wanton, perverse war criminal under whose watch the world saw the crime known as “shock and awe” committed, I’d say you were well out of your mind to suggest that Russia should pull back.

What’s a little shock and awe among inferior people we want to rob and destroy, eh?

What do human beings need an infrastructure for?

Why do they need clean water? Why do they need electricity?

What’s a little torture?

What’s a little regime change? Don’t recall when that was a goal of yours?

What’s a little deviant, perverted sexual experimentation and humiliation?

What’s a few secret detention camps?

What’s wrong with destroying an environment for 4 billion years and generations after generations of people? After all, they’re just rag heads, aren’t they Mr. Bush?

Perhaps when Russia even begins to match your tremendous feats of glory can you speak about pulling back you fool of the worst kind.

You can also tell your number two man to shut up. Cheney said "Russian aggression must not go unanswered, and that its continuation would have serious consequences for its relations with the United States."



So how do you plan to answer this erroneously termed “aggression”? He says this will “worsen” relations with the United States? Buddy, relations with the United States could hardly be any worse than they are now.

The United States shows no respect for Russia. The United States shows no respect for any other country weaker than itself, much less a rival as you perceive Russia to be. How about your NATO? Today the west, tomorrow the world, eh? America uber alles!

How about your missile shield breathing down the neck of the Russian nation? There to protect Europe from Iran? The most totally absurd thing that only a moron would believe.

How about your deliberate breaking of your agreements regarding Serbian Kosovo? UN Resolution 1244 which your country agreed to, is the ink dry…you deliberately went against it and recognized Kosovo in total disregard and in violation of that agreement.

And you expect your words to be heeded or even listened to? You are joking! It is said when Caligula went mad he heard laughing.

Do you hear people laughing at you Mr. Bush?

Listening to you, your Vice President, Condi Rice and US and western officials complain about "regime change," "invasion," "bloodshed" and "suffering civilians" (in the light of their crimes across the world) have become nothing but laughable at best and highly infuriating and enraging at worst.

You are an idiot!

We seem to recall that when your Israeli friends were absolutely devastating the people of Lebanon, wantonly killing civilians, destroying their country’s infrastructure and destroying their environment also….the flapping jaw of your representative, Condoleezza Rice and your entire administration were saying no ceasefire, no nothing, just keep on going, keep on committing acts of state terrorism on innocent people, keep on committing your war crimes, you have them covered.

Well, Mr. Bush, this is it. Moscow better get this one right: No limited engagement nonsense. Moscow has the moral and legal right to carry out full scale military operations within Ossetia, Abkhazia and Georgia to ensure the safety of its citizens, to ensure the protection of Abkhazians and Ossetians and to finally destroy NATO plans for the Caucasus region.

No sane, informed, honest, rational person can blame Russia for reacting to a genocide against their own citizens in Georgia. But then you are NONE of those things.

The problem is not what Russia is doing, but how the US is reacting to it. If you were sane, if you were informed, if you were honest, if you were rational, if you were even marginally fair, you should be happy to see Russian forces put an end to the killing of Russian citizens by the Georgian military. But no, your government is advised by lunatics who belong in psychiatric wards instead of the Pentagon and White House.And you, Mr. Bush, belong in an international criminal court to be judged for your crimes against peace and your crimes against humanity.





BRAVO !!! An excellent article about the REALITIES of this most recent crisis............ Once again: SHAME ON THE US...... and SHAME on YOUR sociopathic/ idiotic / CRIMIANL "leader". These are the sentiments of many on the planet. The US is isolating itself even further.

[Shadow]

That is one of the most disgusting pictures I have seen posted, EVER!


LOL....... why?? Because it METAPHORICALLY represents the truth??? :confused:

[GenSeneca]

This entire post reminds me of something from recent history:

Best of Baghdad Bob:
s27Oq5ot0ZI
Make any claims you like, no matter how outrageous or fraudulent, as long as you say horrible things about America, some people will believe it and support your efforts.

[NO Obamanation]

LOL....... why?? Because it METAPHORICALLY represents the truth??? :confused:

No

Because Many of our Men died trying to save Europe from a mad man
Many women lost their husbands and sons for that cause. Because you are making a joke of those who gave literally all they had for a free world.

[Shadow]

Return to the Cold War for John McCain


A bare-knuckle confrontation with Russia is just what the Republican candidate needed

They obviously don't teach Cold War history at the law schools at Columbia University in New York or George Washington in the nation's capital, otherwise Georgia's president, Mikhail Saakashvili, who attended both institutions, would have thought twice about encouragement from the US for his ill-fated attack on South Ossetia a week ago.

Saakashvili could have read vivid accounts of broadcasts, via the CIA-controlled Radio Free Europe, encouraging the Hungarians in 1956 to believe that if they rose against the Soviet occupier Nato troops would race to their aid. The CIA's director of operations, Frank Wisner, fervently hoped for intervention, but President Eisenhower never had the slightest intention of providing it. Wisner was devastated and suffered a breakdown, ultimately committing suicide.

Another lesson for Saakashvili from this
period of savage Cold War tension came in the dawn of the Kennedy administration when Cuban exiles, seeking to topple Castro in the Bay of Pigs landing, waited vainly for US air support which they thought the CIA had guaranteed. Kennedy declined to make such an order and the furious exiles claimed they had been stabbed in the back. Some think they took revenge with the assassination of JFK nearly three years later.

There are well-known Americans with an identifiable motive for encouraging Saakashvili to believe that his onslaught on South Ossetia would receive support more substantial than some pro forma quacks of protest from George Bush, dragging his eyes from the comely swimmers and beach volleyball players in Beijing to the anodyne text placed in font of him by his advisors.

Republican contender John McCain needs bare-knuckle confrontations with America's enemies. In such eyeball-to-eyeball crises he can strut before the cameras as the seasoned warrior with 'experience', unafraid to lead America to the very brink of


more here

http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/45131,opinion,georgias-loss-is-john-mccains-gain

[Shadow]

No

Because Many of our Men died trying to save Europe from a mad man
Many women lost their husbands and sons for that cause. Because you are making a joke of those who gave literally all they had for a free world.


It was NEVER a "joke". Sorry, you took it that way. THe image is not about the second world war. It is about what represents the US (military) and its ambiions on the planet today. The US was not the only one that fought in that war.......and are NOT the only heros. THat is just so shortsighted and so "american." YOu would think that the US fought that war single handedly. if one listens to the hero worship mindset of the US.

speaking of mad men......... seems the world has one on the loose right now......and he is the so called leader of the US. HE is the one spreading wars , terrorizing , torturing antagonizing and trying to humiliate other nations to a degree it is more than a tad concerning.


IF you want a joke...........then listen to the bush-bully delusional nonsence. Furthermore, there are more critical issues at stake right now than some silly image.

[NO Obamanation]

It was NEVER a "joke". It is about what represents the US (military) and its ambiions on the planet today...

you think the militarys concern (number one or number 29087444) is to put a freaking mcdonalds in other lands? I hope you are not an American but you could be, you seem to be educated by the American public school system



The US was not the only one that fought in that war.......and are NOT the only heros. THat is just so shortsighted and so "american." YOu would think that the US fought that war single handedly. if one listens to the hero worship mindset of the US..

The picture you posted, is what I commented on. Of course I know that America was not the only Country in WW2, Germany was in it too, I bet you can find some lovely things to say about them.

[Shadow]

A pure refined Bushophobic rant, with not a single shred of evidence. :D



Seems that someone is living in the world of Cinderella. and Fantasy. But given what the US media reports to its population........it is no surprise that this is the attitude that prevails.


bushophobic??? Not bad , but just another little catch phrase to add to the many that his era has produced. Slogans, catch phases and name calling. The bushocons have it all.;)

[GenSeneca]

speaking of mad men......... seems the world has one on the loose right now......and he is the so called leader of the US.

What glorious Utopian nation are you privileged enough to live in?

How would you describe Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Vladimir Putin and Osama Bin Laden?

[NO Obamanation]

What glorious Utopian nation are you privileged enough to live in?

How would you describe Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Vladimir Putin and Osama Bin Laden?

well I learned last week that they are freedom fighters.

[Shadow]

What glorious Utopian nation are you privileged enough to live in?

How would you describe Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Vladimir Putin and Osama Bin Laden?


The ones you list are the current appointed enemies of the US. (so that begs to a built in bias) They are "mad " in their own way. ...maybe and as much as politicians can be. But they are not going about starting wars , basing them on sheer lies , slaughtering hundreds of thousands in an endeavor to control the planet (and its resources)......one area at a time. Bush even SOUNDS psychotic at times. or as psychotic as a sociopath will be. Mind you the self imposed stress is probably contributing to his agitated mental state. But then, if he "believes " that people are laughing at him......... they probably ARE.:D:D



BTW: where any poster resides is not part of the discussion. IF folks want to discuss their place of residence,.........they can do it at a tea party type of forum. This thread is about The Bush US and its incredible lack of integrety and honor.


Don't get me wrong. ALL politicians LIE............but not every lie is as costly to so many lives , including their own. or has destroyed so much. with an empty promise to "rebuild". Why destroy it in the first place?? But there is the factor that WAR empowers leaders...... and this is why bush wanted to be "war president". He could then interpret the laws to fit his fantasies , break the laws and use " war time" decisions as an excuse. Just because he is stupid, does not mean he is not devious.

[GenSeneca]

They are "mad " in their own way.

Then you tell me: what current world leaders do you think are at the top of the list for "Sane", honest and peaceful?

You forgot to mention which country you're a citizen of... ;)

If you're fed a full diet of state run Socialist/Communist media... I think it DOES have a bearing on the discussion. If you don't trust the American Free Press but trust the Russian State Controlled media - we're not going to have much to discuss at all.

[Shadow]

well I learned last week that they are freedom fighters.


You probably got that from a US based news media. It spins more fantasy than the author of Harry Potter.

[NO Obamanation]

You probably got that from a US based news media. It spins more fantasy than the author of Harry Potter.

No the canadian said it last week :)

you remember him dont you ?

[Shadow]

You forgot to mention which country you're a citizen of


I did NOT forget.;)


sane and peaceful leaders?? Seems you should be able to figure that one out for yourself. Just think "outside the US" (er box).;)


......... but I am kinda partial to Scotland, Sweden, Switzerland ....etc.;)

[Shadow]

No the canadian said it last week :)

you remember him dont you ?


OFF TOPIC. :( ( but no, why should I?? I have not "met" all the members here yet . Diversional tactics are not appreciated. THANKS.)


.....

[NO Obamanation]

OFF TOPIC. :( ( but no, why should I?? I have not "met" all the members here yet . Diversional tactics are not appreciated. THANKS.)


.....



Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow
You probably got that from a US based news media. It spins more fantasy than the author of Harry Potter.

That was your question to me
All I did was answer the question that you posted directly to me.

Calm down, No need to get upset

[Shadow]

calm down, no need to get upset



off topic

[Shadow]

Crisis in the Caucasus


by Ivan Eland

Despite significant U.S. and Georgian culpability in the crisis in Georgia, most U.S. politicians and media painted Russia as the diabolical "evildoer." As if the Russian military incursions into Georgia, Abkhazia, and South Ossetia – the latter two are autonomous regions of the former that do not want to be part of that country – happened out of the blue, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice implied that Russia was attempting to bring back the Cold War.

Because Georgia is a U.S. friend, however, U.S. politicians, in a huff to heap blame on the resurgent Russian bear, forgot to mention that Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili recklessly first invaded South Ossetia to try to reclaim one of the two regions, which both have had long-standing autonomy and populations who want it to stay that way. He did this in part because the U.S. had helped build up his military, leading him to overestimate U.S. backing in any crisis.

Russia had given ample warnings to Saakashvili that if he attempted to grab such lands, he would meet resistance. In addition, the initial Georgian invasion killed Russian soldiers and apparently many civilians. The United States would never tolerate the killing of its military personnel in such a manner.

But despite their tough pre-election public posturing, some U.S. politicians acknowledge privately that the U.S. friend Saakashvili might be a loose cannon. That they take for granted that the United States should be reflexively supporting him anyway vis-à-vis Russia is troubling. Why should the United States stand behind Saakashvili's aggressive provocation of Russia – a country with thousands of nuclear warheads?

The answer is that contrary to Secretary Rice's implication, Russia is not bringing back the Cold War. In fact, it never ended. After the Soviet Union fell, the United States deliberately took advantage of a weakened Russia to incorporate its former allies and even some former Soviet republics into the NATO alliance. The U.S. even sought and won access to military bases in former Soviet republics in Central Asia. At the time, Russia could do nothing about this perceived hostile alliance moving right up to its current borders. More recently, a stronger Russia – reacting to NATO's flirtation with Ukraine and Georgia for eventual alliance membership and plans for installing U.S. missile defense installations in Poland and the Czech Republic – tightened its relationship with the breakaway regions of Abkhazia and South Ossetia.

Another factor provoking this Russian reaction was the West's recognition of Kosovo – the secessionist province of Serbia, which is a staunch Russian ally – as an independent state. If the U.S. supported self-determination, as enshrined in the U.S. Declaration of Independence, for Kosovo, then why not for Georgia's breakaway regions?

Thus, the post-1991 "Cold War Lite" policy that the U.S. has adopted has made Russia feel surrounded, isolated, and threatened, as many opponents of NATO expansion predicted in the 1990s would eventually happen. After all, the U.S. is in Russia's face – that is, in its traditional sphere of influence – and not vice versa. The opponents also correctly predicted if Russia rose again – which they deemed a distinct possibility – the disgruntled bear would put its foot down. That just happened.


continued here:

http://www.antiwar.com/eland/?articleid=13311

[Shadow]

"The true hypocrite is the one who ceases to perceive his deception, the one who lies with sincerity": André Gide

=
"Integrity is telling myself the truth. And honesty is telling the truth to other people": Spencer Johnson

=
"Every violation of truth is not only a sort of suicide in the liar, but is a stab at the health of human society": Ralph Waldo Emerson

=
"Never think that war, no matter how necessary, nor how justified, is not a crime": Ernest Hemingway

=
"If we let people see that kind of thing, there would never again be any war": Pentagon official explaining why the U.S. military censored graphic footage from the Gulf War

===

[Libsmasher]

Oh, BOO HOO HOOOOOOOOOO! :) That dirty ol' bush deposed a fascist dictator! Waaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! :p AND, it was illegal!!! International law protects fascist dictators - didn't he know???! :p Sniff! Sob! waaaaahhhhhhhhhh bawllllllllllllll :rolleyes:

[BigRob]

......... but I am kinda partial to Scotland, Sweden, Switzerland ....etc.;)

Easy to be partial to countries who are not playing much of a role in world politics.

[NO Obamanation]

Easy to be partial to countries who are not playing much of a role in world politics.

Were any of those three country's to be invaded, I wonder who they would call to for help?

Canada? France? or the USA?

Oh heck maybe Cuba?

[Shadow]

Easy to be partial to countries who are not playing much of a role in world politics.

Perhaps there , lies the key to peace on this planet. Seems that those that ARE playing a role in "world politics" are doing one lousy job. and are not interested in either humanitarianism or peace. Just power, raw power and more power. And now: WAR= POWER.....& control.

[BigRob]

Perhaps there , lies the key to peace on this planet. Seems that those that ARE playing a role in "world politics" are doing one lousy job. and are not interested in either humanitarianism or peace. Just power, raw power and more power. And now: WAR= POWER.....& control.

You are assuming that if Sweden became a major world player they would not pursue goals that furthered their own power.

[Shadow]

Were any of those three country's to be invaded, I wonder who they would call to for help?



one has to ask: WHY would they be "invaded " in the first place??? Who are they offending ?? Who are they being belligerant to?? WHO are they hurting with their policies. ? Then again, the ONLY country doing any invading is the US . (or its little puppets ). There are a few under developed countries that still use the barbarism of war to settle their differences. But that is another level altogether.


What is it about this "fear of being invaded? THAT is an american fear. and in many ways it is justified as it is the US that keeps dissing everyone else on the planet off. ( well, everyone that has something the US wants )

As long as the US continues on its belligerant, overly aggressive, insensitive and warmongering path........ it had better be afraid of being invaded. IF the US were invaded , the invader would have legal and just cause, due to the humanitarian crisis it has created in many parts of the world.

That kind of mindset is soley american. ( if someone is invaded, who will it turn to for help. ...............as if the glorious US is the big planet savior. It is NOT........It is the AGGRESSOR .

It is astounding to read how deeply the american psyche has been INFECTED / diseased by it's own propaganda.

The recent "crisis " that GEORGIA created ( endorsed by the US ) and then spun by the USG / Media to seem like Russia was the aggressor........goes beyond the pale. Such blatant lies are being fed to the US pop continuously now . Given that the Internet is now common place......... they should try getting their INFORMATION from other world sources as opposed to their CNN s and FOX outlets , which just spew their Gov't lies.

Anyone that has more TV channels than just the US ones, has seen so clearly the lies they tell, the spin they fog their population's collective mind with. Then , because it is imperative to be "patriotic" in the US,....the population will defend their gov and its lies to their death. There is no critical thinking left in the US .

Heck......Edwards romantic liason was headline news and dominated the networks as if it were an international crisis. Another run a way bride type of production that the US media fills the airways with. Any tid bit like that is ripe for the vultures. and high drama.

...........

[NO Obamanation]

one has to ask: WHY would they be "invaded " in the first place??? Who are they offending ?? Who are they being belligerant to?? WHO are they hurting with their policies.

What did France do to offend Hitler in WW2?

Are you trying to say that no country in the history of the world has ever been invaded without first offending the invaders?

[Shadow]

You are assuming that if Sweden became a major world player they would not pursue goals that furthered their own power.


You mean follow the US model??? Seems you are assuming that everyone THINKS and would Act like the US . There ARE nations that have a maturity to know how to handle power in a constructive way. It is unfortunate that folks like yourself immediately ASSUME that the US way is the only way.

Many nations that know how to handle power effectively and constructively are a lot more intelligent than the US too. (and worldly)

[BigRob]

You mean follow the US model??? Seems you are assuming that everyone THINKS and would Act like the US . There ARE nations that have a maturity to know how to handle power in a constructive way. It is unfortunate that folks like yourself immediately ASSUME that the US way is the only way.

Many nations that know how to handle power effectively and constructively are a lot more intelligent than the US too. (and worldly)

Such as? The Romans? British? Russians? Chinese maybe?

[Shadow]

Are you trying to say that no country in the history of the world has ever been invaded without first offending the invaders?



No. but lets deal with the present. Amazing how quickly the USers bring up the German situation as a defense for its actions, and self glorification.

Not too classy. But par for the course.

Now.......before this thread is totally derailed..........back on topic. The Bush -US hypocrisy

[NO Obamanation]

No. but lets deal with the present. Amazing how quickly the USers bring up the German situation as a defense for its actions, and self glorification.

Not too classy.

I did not bring it up to glorify anyone, I brought it up as an example to squash your statement. And your only come back is an insult instead of something to back up your first statement. Typical!

[BigRob]

No. but lets deal with the present. Amazing how quickly the USers bring up the German situation as a defense for its actions, and self glorification.

Not too classy. But par for the course.

Now.......before this thread is totally derailed..........back on topic. The Bush -US hypocrisy

Equally as amazing is how you attempt to revise history and explain everything as the "US Model" when things like this have been going on for centuries.

[NO Obamanation]

I wonder shadow

What Spain did to deserve the train bombing by terrorists a few years back?

I am sure that you think the "US had it coming" when 911 happened, but did Spain deserve the bombings they got? What horrid things had spain done?

[Shadow]

when things like this have been going on for centuries.


Which only indicates that humanity has not really evolved all that much in the centuries you refer to.


Just because barbarism -of hypocrisy , wars , aggression has been part of humanity for centuries , does not make it acceptable if one wants humanity as a species to evolve.

[Shadow]

What Spain did to deserve the train bombing by terrorists a few years back?



OFF TOPIC!! You want to discuss the CRIME of terrorism....start another thread. THANK YOU>

[BigRob]

Which only indicates that humanity has not really evolved all that much in the centuries you refer to.


Just because barbarism -of hypocrisy , wars , aggression has been part of humanity for centuries , does not make it acceptable if one wants humanity as a species to evolve.

Assuming that humanity is evolving. :rolleyes:

There are numerous examples from all of these times of very generous and great things that happened as well. So are we evolving from that to war, or from war to that?

[Shadow]

Assuming that humanity is evolving. :rolleyes:

There are numerous examples from all of these times of very generous and great things that happened as well. So are we evolving from that to war, or from war to that?

You are probably right. Humanity itself is not really evolving. Hypocrisy, lies and wars continue as par for the course. The only difference is the type of hypocisy, lies and weaponry used in the wars today. People are not more or less "intelligent". They just have more information and knowledge to process now.

[Andy]

You effectively spent an entire thread ranting without any real support for your baseless accusations. Congrats on being a know-nothing with a lot of hot air to spew. You are a perfect example of a typical leftist.

If you do not know why we went into Iraq by now, you never will. Stay out of politics if you don't know anything about which you speak.

[Shadow]

You effectively spent an entire thread ranting without any real support for your baseless accusations. Congrats on being a know-nothing with a lot of hot air to spew. You are a perfect example of a typical leftist.

If you do not know why we went into Iraq by now, you never will. Stay out of politics if you don't know anything about which you speak.


this kind of personal attack is not acceptable. and just a silly (and desperate )diversion from the topic.


The US HYPOCRISY is the topic. and there are a multitude examples of it .


(an aside, but the whole world knows WHY the US attacked Iraq, .....except the americans who buy into their Gov't LIES )

[NO Obamanation]

this kind of personal attack is not acceptable. and just a silly (and desperate )diversion from the topic.


The US HYPOCRISY is the topic. and there are a multitude examples of it .


(an aside, but the whole world knows WHY the US attacked Iraq, .....except the americans who buy into their Gov't LIES )

I had a hard time doing it but I did read what you posted, but I did not find any of these "multitude of examples" you spoke of. Could you post some of them for us that have a hard time getting through your posts?

like

1. -----

2. -----

Then we have something to work with


I can fill in number one. You said the US Military is concerned with putting McDonalds in other countries.

ok so

1. Putting American Fast foods in non US lands

2.

[Shadow]

Well, you obviously did NOT read any of the articles I posted. The examples are there and it does not take a rocket scientist to figure them out. for oneself.


If reading this thread is such a hardship........then stay away from it. Either you take responsibility and acknowledge the US hypocrisy ......particularly in the most recent crisis. or you remain in that deluded bubble of denial . How much more does one need?? Diagrams??

[NO Obamanation]

Well, you obviously did NOT read any of the articles I posted. The examples are there and it does not take a rocket scientist to figure them out. for oneself.


If reading this thread is such a hardship........then stay away from it. Either you take responsibility and acknowledge the US hypocrisy ......particularly in the most recent crisis. How much more does one need?? Diagrams??

Well we went through one of your complaints about America, the fast food one, but what exactly is the hyocrisy in that? Now if the USA said no we will never let Chinese food in the country or we will boycott all things Italian, then it would be very hypocritical for us to let the free market expand to other lands.

[Shadow]

Putting American Fast foods in non US lands


LOL... that is not hypocrisy. That is McDonalds version of "imperialism" , ;) & "expansionism";-)


Now , that you have established that you don't know what hypocrisy is......this discussion is moot.

[NO Obamanation]

Well, you obviously did NOT read any of the articles I posted. The examples are there and it does not take a rocket scientist to figure them out. for oneself.


If reading this thread is such a hardship........then stay away from it. Either you take responsibility and acknowledge the US hypocrisy ......particularly in the most recent crisis. or you remain in that deluded bubble of denial . How much more does one need?? Diagrams??

I saw your examples but I saw no proof of anything you said. Andy posted simular and Andy is a very bright person. So that is two of us who read what you wrote and couldnt see any valid points.

For someone who demands respect, you sure are not giving any.

[Shadow]

Refresher:

Enter Mr. Bush. On August 15, in response to the rising tensions between Georgia and Russia, he made this incredible statement: “Bullying and intimidation are not acceptable ways to conduct foreign policy in the twenty-first century.”

Let’s see now; if one is not mistaken, one could say that March 19, 2003 was part of the twenty-first century. That is the day that Mr. Bush used ‘bullying and intimidation’ to a horrific degree to ‘conduct foreign policy.’ That day marked the beginning of the ‘Shock and Awe’ campaign that has killed over 1,000,000 Iraqis, displaced millions more and killed over 4,000 U.S. soldiers and maimed tens of thousands more. Mr. Bush is correct: bullying and intimidation have no place in foreign policy, but his words are rendered empty, insincere and meaningless by his actions.




"the do as I say, not as I do."....... is the hypocrisy I am talking about.


(an aside:it is very scary to realize just how dumbed down the US pop is. now. )

[Shadow]

I saw your examples but I saw no proof of anything you said. Andy posted simular and Andy is a very bright person. So that is two of us who read what you wrote and couldnt see any valid points.

For someone who demands respect, you sure are not giving any.


Oh wow: finding comfort in numbers?? that old gang mentality.??


No, I do NOT respect the US and those that support the ugly US policies. and HYPOCRISY.

[NO Obamanation]

Oh wow: finding comfort in numbers?? that old gang mentality.??


No, I do NOT respect the US and those that support the ugly US policies. and HYPOCRISY.

No comfort in numbers, no "gang" mentality. You were very rude to me because I could not grasp what your point was, I was just saying I am not the only one who could not... it was not meant to be an attack, just an example of why I might need you to be more clear in your points.

I do not think your feelings of the US are a shock to anyone

[NO Obamanation]

Refresher:

Enter Mr. Bush. On August 15, in response to the rising tensions between Georgia and Russia, he made this incredible statement: “Bullying and intimidation are not acceptable ways to conduct foreign policy in the twenty-first century.”

Let’s see now; if one is not mistaken, one could say that March 19, 2003 was part of the twenty-first century. That is the day that Mr. Bush used ‘bullying and intimidation’ to a horrific degree to ‘conduct foreign policy.’ That day marked the beginning of the ‘Shock and Awe’ campaign that has killed over 1,000,000 Iraqis, displaced millions more and killed over 4,000 U.S. soldiers and maimed tens of thousands more. Mr. Bush is correct: bullying and intimidation have no place in foreign policy, but his words are rendered empty, insincere and meaningless by his actions.




"the do as I say, not as I do."....... is the hypocrisy I am talking about.


(an aside:it is very scary to realize just how dumbed down the US pop is. now. )

Had Russia first been in conflict with Georgia years earlier and had an agreement, and had Georgia broken that agreement this could be comparable

Had Russia first went to the UN to try and settle things that way this could be comparable

Had Russia first gone to other countries and tried to get a coalition of nations US had all but 4) and those 4 were in cahoots with the UN in the oil for food scam. But if they at least tried then this could be comparable

Had Russia done a number of other things the US did before going into Iraq this could be comparable, but since Russia did none of the above this is like comparing apples and a rare kind of rice that grows strictly on Mars.

No wonder I could not follow your hypocrisy point, these two things are so non alike... You really did have to spell it out for me.

[GenSeneca]

No comfort in numbers, no "gang" mentality. You were very rude to me because I could not grasp what your point was, I was just saying I am not the only one who could not... it was not meant to be an attack, just an example of why I might need you to be more clear in your points.

I do not think your feelings of the US are a shock to anyone

Just go back to ignoring Shadi... He's not worth the effort. ;)

[NO Obamanation]

Just go back to ignoring Shadi... He's not worth the effort. ;)

:D shhh :)

[Shadow]

Had Russia first been in conflict with Georgia years earlier and had an agreement, and had Georgia broken that agreement this could be comparable

Had Russia first went to the UN to try and settle things that way this could be comparable

Had Russia first gone to other countries and tried to get a coalition of nations US had all but 4) and those 4 were in cahoots with the UN in the oil for food scam. But if they at least tried then this could be comparable

Had Russia done a number of other things the US did before going into Iraq this could be comparable, but since Russia did none of the above this is like comparing apples and a rare kind of rice that grows strictly on Mars.

No wonder I could not follow your hypocrisy point, these two things are so non alike... You really did have to spell it out for me.

What do you take for your vertigo?? The spin is astonishing. You don't WANT to understand any other view point but your own. So situation is null and void.

[Shadow]

Just go back to ignoring Shadi... He's not worth the effort. ;)

THANK YOU Gen. Ignore who ever Shadi is with pleasure.

If you want to ignore Shadow too...... fantastic!!! . Be my guest...but stop derailing the topic with personal attacks /aka BS.

[NO Obamanation]

What do you take for your vertigo?? The spin is astonishing. You don't WANT to understand any other view point but your own. So situation is null and void.

my spin is astonishing because the two events are not simular in any manner?

Yet I am to believe they are the same or I take meds for vertigo.

Well I am following that just about as good as I followed the thread

[GenSeneca]

THANK YOU Gen. Ignore who ever Shadi is with pleasure.

If you want to ignore Shadow too...... fantastic. Be my guest...but stop derailing the topic with personal attacks /aka BS.

According to you... anything short of "acknowledging" or "admitting" to US hypocrisy is "off topic"... Well guess what... We don't have to agree with you.

I'm sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and disagree with the Anti-American position, somehow you're Brainwashed. We need to stand up and say we're Americans, and we have the right to debate and disagree with any America Basher. - Clinton quote, slightly modified

[NO Obamanation]

According to you... anything short of "acknowledging" or "admitting" to US hypocrisy is "off topic"... Well guess what... We don't have to agree with you.

I'm sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and disagree with the Anti-American position, somehow you're Brainwashed. We need to stand up and say we're Americans, and we have the right to debate and disagree with any America Basher. - Clinton quote, slightly modified

and you have to admit it without any sort of proof. You also have to take insults but can not say anything in return.

Shadow please try to remember when Americans are posting with you, we dont understand surpressed views, or surpressed thoughts, in our country we have the freedom to think, the freedom to speak and the freedom to express.

No American will ever understand or get used to being told we cant have our God given rights. No American is going to just shut up and take it because someone told them to.

[BigRob]

Refresher:

Enter Mr. Bush. On August 15, in response to the rising tensions between Georgia and Russia, he made this incredible statement: “Bullying and intimidation are not acceptable ways to conduct foreign policy in the twenty-first century.”

Let’s see now; if one is not mistaken, one could say that March 19, 2003 was part of the twenty-first century. That is the day that Mr. Bush used ‘bullying and intimidation’ to a horrific degree to ‘conduct foreign policy.’ That day marked the beginning of the ‘Shock and Awe’ campaign that has killed over 1,000,000 Iraqis, displaced millions more and killed over 4,000 U.S. soldiers and maimed tens of thousands more. Mr. Bush is correct: bullying and intimidation have no place in foreign policy, but his words are rendered empty, insincere and meaningless by his actions.




"the do as I say, not as I do."....... is the hypocrisy I am talking about.


(an aside:it is very scary to realize just how dumbed down the US pop is. now. )


The US spent a decade in the UN with countless resolutions and warnings. Russia simply invaded. The comparison is a bit off.

[Shadow]

Does it even occur to you that the US is being "bashed" for a damned good reason. ??? Does it ever occur to you that there is a reason for the US low standing on the world stage??? Sure, it is uncomfortable to be on the hotseat now.........but there is a bloody good reason for it. The US has so much potential...... IF it begins to use its vast resources , capabilities in a constructive manner. It can be a respected leader again..... and lead by positive, peace oriented example .

THere is NO excuse for the US and /or its puppets to act aggressively , militarily against neighboring nations. I mean taking on , provoking the BEAR is beyond foolish. Now, with almost everyone else, the US has added Russia into it's list of opposers. How long can this go on without things getting really explosive?? Or is this continuous war state what the US wants??




Now, things might turn around IF and WHEN the US and its pop realize the fact that they cannot keep treating others like they have been? It is time for a whole new political framework and theme. ........ where wars ... ANY wars are totally frowned on. Where provoking others into reacting militarily is NOT an ideal poltical tactic.

[Shadow]

Shadow please try to remember when Americans are posting with you, we dont understand surpressed views, or surpressed thoughts


THAT is so "american' condescending and ill informed , while making idiotic assumptions about who is living in a suppressed nation . Sheesh.

Are you really that ignorant?? or simply idiotically arrogant??

How sad that the US is so free as to completely ignore the realities that face it today. THAT is NOT free, that is brainwashed.

but heck.......each to his own.

[BigRob]

Does it even occur to you that the US is being "bashed" for a damned good reason. ??? Does it ever occur to you that there is a reason for the US low standing on the world stage??? Sure, it is uncomfortable to be on the hotseat now.........but there is a bloody good reason for it. The US has so much potential...... IF it begins to use its vast resources , capabilities in a constructive manner. It can be a respected leader again..... and lead by positive, peace oriented example .

If we use our resources more like you want you mean?


THere is NO excuse for the US and /or its puppets to act aggressively , militarily against neighboring nations. I mean taking on , provoking the BEAR is beyond foolish. Now, with almost everyone else, the US has added Russia into it's list of opposers. How long can this go on without things getting really explosive?? Or is this continuous war state what the US wants??

The US did not cause this.


Now, things might turn around IF and WHEN the US and its pop realize the fact that they cannot keep treating others like they have been? It is time for a whole new political framework and theme. ........ where wars ... ANY wars are totally frowned on. Where provoking others into reacting militarily is NOT an ideal poltical tactic.

Sounds like wishful thinking to me. War will always be a part of humanity, and it always has been.

[NO Obamanation]

Does it even occur to you that the US is being "bashed" for a damned good reason. ??? Does it ever occur to you that there is a reason for the US low standing on the world stage??? Sure, it is uncomfortable to be on the hotseat now.........but there is a bloody good reason for it. The US has so much potential...... IF it begins to use its vast resources , capabilities in a constructive manner. It can be a respected leader again..... and lead by positive, peace oriented example .

THere is NO excuse for the US and /or its puppets to act aggressively , militarily against neighboring nations. I mean taking on , provoking the BEAR is beyond foolish. Now, with almost everyone else, the US has added Russia into it's list of opposers. How long can this go on without things getting really explosive?? Or is this continuous war state what the US wants??




Now, things might turn around IF and WHEN the US and its pop realize the fact that they cannot keep treating others like they have been? It is time for a whole new political framework and theme. ........ where wars ... ANY wars are totally frowned on. Where provoking others into reacting militarily is NOT an ideal poltical tactic.

Your thread is US hypocrisy, your example is the Russian/Georgia conflict being compared to the US/IRAQ

They are not simular in any way, when anyone posts how differnt they are you just insult us instead of telling us why you think they are the same and explaing why we are wrong when we think they are differnt.

How can we have a meaningful thread if no ones points will be addressed except for to tell us some insult?

[GenSeneca]

The US has so much potential...... IF it begins to use its vast resources , capabilities in a constructive manner. It can be a respected leader again..... and lead by positive, peace oriented example .
You mean by accepting International Socialism and subordinating ourselves to the UN, or what?

BTW you never answered this question:

WHEN was the US a respected world leader? I want to hear what year, what place in time you feel the US was "positive and peace oriented"

[NO Obamanation]

THAT is so "american' condescending and ill informed , while making idiotic assumptions about who is living in a suppressed nation . Sheesh.

Are you really that ignorant?? or simply idiotically arrogant??

How sad that the US is so free as to completely ignore the realities that face it today. THAT is NOT free, that is brainwashed.

but heck.......each to his own.

I was not trying to be condescending, I was trying to explain to you that telling us to shut up and just accept facts that are not facts wont work. You are clearly not American, it could be that you do not understand us.

now here is another post of you insulting me and being rude, but if anyone says anything you dont like you stomp them. but you dont seem to think those rules apply to you. i dont understand that at all.

[Shadow]

I want to hear what year, what place in time you feel the US was "positive and peace oriented"



good question. Seems the entire history ( however young and brief) has been destructive and war oriented. .....with momentary periods of quiet in between.

My mistake for thinking different.

[Shadow]

You are clearly not American,


and that matters , how?? Is this not an international forum?? If you want this to be a purely "american" forum......just say so, and I will gladly leave.

[BigRob]

good question. Seems the entire history ( however young and brief) has been destructive and war oriented. .....with momentary periods of quiet in between.

My mistake for thinking different.

Guess it has worked out quite well for US then, since we are one of the richest nations the world has ever seen.

[GenSeneca]

good question. Seems the entire history ( however young and brief) has been destructive and war oriented. .....with momentary periods of quiet in between.

My mistake for thinking different.

So then, be specific, what do we do, who's lead should we follow, in order to get the world to love us?

[BigRob]

So then, be specific, what do we do, who's lead should we follow, in order to get the world to love us?

We follow his plan of course :rolleyes:

[Shadow]

So then, be specific, what do we do, who's lead should we follow, in order to get the world to love us?



off the top of my head (so to speak ;-)

I don't think that the objective should be getting the world to "love " the US. No nation will love another nation as each nation is unique and there are many differences.

Perhaps we should start with the question:

How does the US WANT to be treated?? ....... and then discuss how one can fascilitate that ..........IF it is a realistic objective in todays' world.

If the US wants to be respected ( and I think it should)......then it must learn to treat others with respect. and this applies to all other componants of inter national relationships.

Don't think the US should follow ANYONE's lead. It has the ability and the uniqueness to lead creatively. But it has become too much of a warmonger now to be a constructive example to others.

IF the US wants to be an example to the world...... then it must decide what type of example it wants to be. Scientifically progressive??? Humanitarian ?? ( which it really is not now. All the money , contributions does not make a humanitarian ), Militarily dominant?? & war mongering?? ( which it is now ).

IF it wants to have credibility, then it must stop being a hypocrit , and a threat to world peace. It cannot go on saying one thing and behaving another. It cannot go on describing itself as one thing and acting the opposite.

It might lose its arrogance and realize that its accomplishments speak for themselves. ANd it is capable of many. THe space program has been an astonishing project with so many side benefits. (for eg)


there is a LOT the US can do to regain a positive standing on this planet. and still save face.........

[Shadow]

We follow his plan of course :rolleyes:


WHAT plan??


why do americans keep making a fool of themselves by these kind of silly remarks?? Can't they help themselves??:confused:

[NO Obamanation]

and that matters , how?? Is this not an international forum?? If you want this to be a purely "american" forum......just say so, and I will gladly leave.

It is not my forum to kick you out, and I would not even if I could.

I said its clear you are not American because I felt it important to explain that Americans are not used to being stiffled on the freedom of speech and expression.

Then you thought I was being Condescending...

I cant win, but I can try :)

[BigRob]

WHAT plan??


why do americans keep making a fool of themselves by these kind of silly remarks?? Can't they help themselves??:confused:

So, no plan from you. How unexpected.

Maybe when you come up with one we can discuss it, until then, we are busy ruling the world :rolleyes:

[Shadow]

So, no plan from you. How unexpected.


Would you bother to read or listen to any "plan" other than your own??

get real.


Do you believe that you are "ruling the world" in the most INTELLIGENT , positive and constructive way possible.??

[BigRob]

Would you bother to read or listen to any "plan" other than your own??

get real.

I would, but I have yet to see one.


Do you believe that you are "ruling the world" in the most INTELLIGENT , positive and constructive way possible.??

By all means, offer an alternative.

[Andy]

I would, but I have yet to see one.



By all means, offer an alternative.

Apparently some peoples views are that blowing up an aspirin factory, using a $1 million dollar missile to level some tents and camels, or bombing whole nations of serbs... is ruling the world in a good way.

[NO Obamanation]

Apparently some peoples views are that blowing up an aspirin factory, using a $1 million dollar missile to level some tents and camels, or bombing whole nations of serbs... is ruling the world in a good way.

is that the one where the custodian died?

Bill Clinton bombing without talking to congress, or the senate, or the UN, on the night before Monica was to testify about the stain on the blue dress?

[Shadow]

Apparently some peoples views are that blowing up an aspirin factory, using a $1 million dollar missile to level some tents and camels, or bombing whole nations of serbs... is ruling the world in a good way.

Huh??? THAT does not even make rational sense.

[Andy]

Yes, that would be the one.

[vyo476]

You effectively spent an entire thread ranting without any real support for your baseless accusations. Congrats on being a know-nothing with a lot of hot air to spew. You are a perfect example of a typical leftist.

If you do not know why we went into Iraq by now, you never will. Stay out of politics if you don't know anything about which you speak.

Personal attack is highlighted. That's strike one, Andy.

[GenSeneca]

Are you really that ignorant?? or simply idiotically arrogant??



I guess nobody reported this one...

[Andy]

Huh??? THAT does not even make rational sense.

Really? You think it doesn't make sense? Brilliant. The last president didn't do anything that made sense in foreign policy. Go read up a bit and come back a tad more educated :)

Captain Underpants (CP), during his many dozens of scandals, blew up an aspirin factory in Sudan, which triggered the largest anti-american march ever in the middle-east.

The owner of the factory, backed by the Sudanese government, filed suit against the US Government and Mr CP himself, for the loss. Get this Sparky, our government actually OK'd the law suit and paid the owner of the plant for the loss.

Why did CP blow up an aspirin factory? Because it was during his grand jury testimony. He used this attack, based on completely fabricated charges that it was a "weapons factory", to divert attention away from his perjury riddled testimony.

Now, let's compare this to Bush. Saddam was supposed to disarm, and allow the UN to verify the destruction of all his WMDs, including chemical, biological, as well as need his pursuit of nuclear weapons. Instead, Saddam, moved the weapons around continuously, played games with the UN, eventually kicking them out completely, was meeting with members of Al Qaeda, was supporting other terrorist groups and attempted on many occasions to acquire nuclear technology, and/or radioactive waste that could be used to make dirty bombs for what purpose we don't know.

Isn't it amazing how the idiot left always blames others for what THEY DO. CP made up evidence. They claim Bush did, yet the Rockefeller report prove he didn't. CP killed people for personal gain. They claim Bush did, but there is nothing to support that. CP caused the largest anti-America march in history. They claim Bush is causing anti-american sentiment, yet the people in Iraq say the population over whelmingly supports us.

The real "hypocrisy personified & astounding" is the left.

[Andy]

Personal attack is highlighted. That's strike one, Andy.

oops sorry.

[NO Obamanation]

I guess nobody reported this one...

and how many others ???.... I refuse to reduce myself to that level.

[Shadow]

The real "hypocrisy personified & astounding" is the left.


Don't think so. Hypocrisy is not a party issue. It comes from PEOPLE....not nec a category of them.

[GenSeneca]

Don't think so. Hypocrisy is not a party issue. It comes from PEOPLE....not nec a category of them.

Yes! Only American "people" are hypocrites! The rest of the world just wants to live in peace and harmony.... WE keep screwing that all up!

[Andy]

and how many others ???.... I refuse to reduce myself to that level.

I was just responding to what I considered nothing more than a blatant troll. An attempt to get people angry for no reason since there was very little other than hyperbole and glorified opinion.

You best get ready. The political hacks will get more unglued as the election approaches.

[NO Obamanation]

I was just responding to what I considered nothing more than a blatant troll. An attempt to get people angry for no reason since there was very little other than hyperbole and glorified opinion.

You best get ready. The political hacks will get more unglued as the election approaches.

I know, but if If I know what they are doing and why I can beat them at their own game by not letting myself get set up. :) and still not reduce my self to that level.


Much of this is better said in pm :)

[Shadow]

Yes! Only American "people" are hypocrites! The rest of the world just wants to live in peace and harmony.... WE keep screwing that all up!

Congratulations !! That is an award winning bit of spin. and diversional tactics.

Is staying on topic THAT difficult ???

[Shadow]

The political hacks will get more unglued as the election approaches.

How do you figure THAT?? Andy. Thx.

[BigRob]

Congratulations !! That is an award winning bit of spin. and diversional tactics.

Is staying on topic THAT difficult ???

Would you prefer we all sat around and claimed Bush was an idiot. Because that is basically all you are doing. That is the topic you want everyone to stay on?

[Shadow]

Would you prefer we all sat around and claimed Bush was an idiot.


Nope. but it would be refreshing to read that some actually ADMIT he is one.;);)


actually he is cunning, devious , shallow . manipulative and inarticulate but that does not make him a true idiot. ;-) A true idiot by definition usually has more integrety at the level of his/her understanding. and they can't help their "disadvantage."

[GenSeneca]

If the US wants to be respected then it must learn to treat others with respect.

IF it wants to have credibility, then it must stop being a hypocrit , and a threat to world peace.

How do we go about treating others with respect?

How do we stop being a hypocrite?

How do we stop being a threat to world peace?

Please, give real world examples.

[BigRob]

Nope. but it would be refreshing to read that some actually ADMIT he is one.;);)

Bush is no idiot. Even if you do not like his policies you have to admit that politically he is brilliant as he has avoided every obstacle that the weak hearted democrats have tried to use.

[Shadow]

Bush is no idiot. Even if you do not like his policies you have to admit that politically he is brilliant as he has avoided every obstacle that the weak hearted democrats have tried to use.

Didn't I just say that he is no idiot. ??? Please re-read my description of him. He fits the criteria of a sociopath. The fact he is manipulative enough to get away with as much as he with with the US population..... speaks to his cunning.

[BigRob]

Didn't I just say that he is no idiot. ??? Please re-read my description of him. He fits the criteria of a sociopath. The fact he is manipulative enough to get away with as much as he with with the US population..... speaks to his cunning.

Or it speaks to the inability of the democratic party to organize anything.

[Andy]

You mean follow the US model??? Seems you are assuming that everyone THINKS and would Act like the US . There ARE nations that have a maturity to know how to handle power in a constructive way. It is unfortunate that folks like yourself immediately ASSUME that the US way is the only way.

Many nations that know how to handle power effectively and constructively are a lot more intelligent than the US too. (and worldly)

lol This is joke. Name a country that demonstrably has the ability to wage full scale war, and does not in any way take actions that further their own goals? The former Iraq? The Soviets? The Nazis? Venezuela? The Serbs?

NAME ONE! :)

In fact, we, the US, have done more to further other nations than any other country on Earth. Japan, Taiwan, Columbia, Philippines, South Korea, South Vietnam, Kuwait, Allies side of Berlin, France, Iraq. The list goes on and on. We have been the most effective, and most constructive of any nation on this planet. Not perfect, not even close. But by far the best.

[Andy]

Didn't I just say that he is no idiot. ??? Please re-read my description of him. He fits the criteria of a sociopath. The fact he is manipulative enough to get away with as much as he with with the US population..... speaks to his cunning.

Given what he was left to work with, and given what he had to deal with, Bush is far better than any alternative could have been.

[Shadow]

How do we go about treating others with respect?

How do we stop being a hypocrite?

How do we stop being a threat to world peace?

Please, give real world examples.

are these questions SERIOUS?? like don't you KNOW how to treat others with respect?? (for eg)


Try listening and hearing others. Try working WITH them as opposed to against them. Try stop creating enemies with the aggressive and verbal threats. ( and active wars ) Try DIALOGUING with others as opposed to DICTATING to them. or DEMANDING from them. Try softening the approach but with intelligence . Stop bragging about how great you are........as each nation has some greatness in it too. Respect the individual greatness of each nation and focus on it as opposed to overly aggressive threats.

Try PATIENCE. Not all nations speak the same language , or have the same culture . Any change in any nation (including the US) is PAINFUL.....and usually met with resistance at first. (human nature )

take the idea of "freedom'. It means different things to different people and culture. So it is IMPERATIVE to understand the culture one is dealing with or negotiating with.

LEARN about the world outside the US. Heck, until Afganistan was invaded, folks did not even know where it was. The only reason folks knew where Iraq was , was due to its oil wealth.

one can go on and on.

[Shadow]

Given what he was left to work with,


Like what , Andy? A balanced budget. (for eg) Yep, that was a tough one to inherit. Look at it now. How many trillion does the US owe in national debts?? The sorry sod could not balance a check book , let alone a national budget . (and I feel sorry for him. He has been way out of his element since he took office. Why did it take a terror attack to define him?? or for him to define himself??? He was going nowhere and fast. But he did come into office with an agenda. The terrorist attack simply helped him fullfill his objectives.

No, bush was NOT the lesser of two evils at all. and to select him TWICE?? !! when the writing was on the wall . But if you like the "state of the nation" as it is today...........be my guest.

While we are at it..............lets describe the current "state of the union" . Lets see what a list like that would yield.

[BigRob]

Like what , Andy? A balanced budget. (for eg) Yep, that was a tough one to inherit. Look at it now. How many trillion does the US owe in national debts?? The sorry sod could not balance a check book , let alone a national budget . (and I feel sorry for him. He has been way out of his element since he took office. Why did it take a terror attack to define him?? or for him to define himself???

No, bush was NOT the lesser of two evils at all. and to select him TWICE?? !! when the writing was on the wall . But if you like the "state of the nation" as it is today...........be my guest.

Are you trying to argue that there was no massive national debt when Bush came into office?

[Andy]

Nope. but it would be refreshing to read that some actually ADMIT he is one.;);)


actually he is cunning, devious , shallow . manipulative and inarticulate but that does not make him a true idiot. ;-) A true idiot by definition usually has more integrety at the level of his/her understanding. and they can't help their "disadvantage."

The same could be said of any number of politicians in any country on this planet. It could be said of the moron in Venezuela, or that crack pot Mugabe in Zimbabwe. The difference is, they both are destroying their countries, we're building our and rebuilding others.

You can't really support these random personal attacks. Go get some education and come back. Try Yale or Harvard... you know... where Bush got his Bachelor's degree and MBA.

[Andy]

Like what , Andy? A balanced budget. (for eg) Yep, that was a tough one to inherit. Look at it now. How many trillion does the US owe in national debts?? The sorry sod could not balance a check book , let alone a national budget . (and I feel sorry for him. He has been way out of his element since he took office. Why did it take a terror attack to define him?? or for him to define himself???

No, bush was NOT the lesser of two evils at all. and to select him TWICE?? !! when the writing was on the wall . But if you like the "state of the nation" as it is today...........be my guest.

Like a recession... like a out of control Saddam... like a terrorist network that had already committed dozens of attack in the 8 years prior... You know... those "minor" things...

Yeah, they selected him twice because he was the best option in both cases.

[Shadow]

Or it speaks to the inability of the democratic party to organize anything

THAT is quite possible to probable too, Rob.

[Andy]

are these questions SERIOUS?? like don't you KNOW how to treat others with respect?? (for eg)


Try listening and hearing others. Try working WITH them as opposed to against them. Try stop creating enemies with the aggressive and verbal threats. ( and active wars ) Try DIALOGUING with others as opposed to DICTATING to them. or DEMANDING from them. Try softening the approach but with intelligence . Stop bragging about how great you are........as each nation has some greatness in it too. Respect the individual greatness of each nation and focus on it as opposed to overly aggressive threats.

Try PATIENCE. Not all nations speak the same language , or have the same culture . Any change in any nation (including the US) is PAINFUL.....and usually met with resistance at first. (human nature )

take the idea of "freedom'. It means different things to different people and culture. So it is IMPERATIVE to understand the culture one is dealing with or negotiating with.

LEARN about the world outside the US. Heck, until Afganistan was invaded, folks did not even know where it was. The only reason folks knew where Iraq was , was due to its oil wealth.

one can go on and on.

We are working with the population of Iraq. If we had done it your way, they'd be still going to rape rooms of Saddam's sons, and Saddam would still be testing out his 'non-existent' WMDs on villages in the north. If this is your suggestion, then no, I'll vote for another Bush type first.

[Shadow]

Yeah, they selected him twice because he was the best option in both cases.


I can see that you really BELIEVE that , Andy.

[Andy]

I can see that you really BELIEVE that , Andy.

Know it. Not just believe, know it for the factual truth that it is.

[Shadow]

Saddam would still be testing out his 'non-existent' WMDs on villages in the north



.........hmm. I guess according to you, it is just fine to USE the US WMD to slaughter, maim , hundreds of thousands of Iraqi men, women, children , pets , the elderly , the handicapped, just because SH sons were patholgical misfits.


IS KILLING your solution to all problems?? Or just the ones that have oil??

[Shadow]

Know it. Not just believe, know it for the factual truth that it is.




OK........ are there many others of this "ideology"??

[GenSeneca]

are these questions SERIOUS??
Yes, they are serious. Thank you for responding to them.

like don't you KNOW how to treat others with respect??
Well, after reading your reply... The concept of Respect seems to differ among countries and cultures.

Try listening and hearing others. Try working WITH them as opposed to against them. Try stop creating enemies with the aggressive and verbal threats.
You mean like how you listen to people like me? Doesn't seem like you do... Do you work with me as opposed to against me? Doesn't seem like you do....You certainly have used verbal abuse towards people who disagree....
Try DIALOGUING with others as opposed to DICTATING to them. or DEMANDING from them. Try softening the approach but with intelligence
And you do these things? You don't just preach to us about our evils, demanding we accept your opinions and you consider yours a soft approach thats based on intelligence?

Respect the individual greatness of each nation and focus on it as opposed to overly aggressive threats.
That would be sound advice for people like Bin Laden who seek to kill our civilians because he disagrees with our policies.... using overly aggressive threats to cast fear and doubt into the American culture. America doesn't do ANYTHING without at least running it past the international community.
Try PATIENCE. Not all nations speak the same language , or have the same culture . Any change in any nation is PAINFUL.....and usually met with resistance at first.
Thanks for being so patient with all us Americans.... I for one will resist any "Change" that seeks to undermine or eliminate the founding principals of my country.

take the idea of "freedom'. It means different things to different people and culture. So it is IMPERATIVE to understand the culture one is dealing with or negotiating with.
Then what does freedom mean to you... wherever you are? I don't consider being taken care of by the state freedom, I call that slavery.
one can go on and on.
Please do...

[BigRob]

.........hmm. I guess according to you, it is just fine to USE the US WMD to slaughter, maim , hundreds of thousands of Iraqi men, women, children , pets , the elderly , the handicapped, just because SH sons were patholgical misfits.


IS KILLING your solution to all problems?? Or just the ones that have oil??

What WMD did the US use in Iraq exactly?

[Andy]

.........hmm. I guess according to you, it is just fine to USE the US WMD to slaughter, maim , hundreds of thousands of Iraqi men, women, children , pets , the elderly , the handicapped, just because SH sons were patholgical misfits.


IS KILLING your solution to all problems?? Or just the ones that have oil??

Hearsay, hyperbole, zero substance. Example:

.......hmmm. I guess according to you, it is just fine for Saddam to use WMD to slaughter, maim , hundreds of thousands of Iraqi men, women, children , pets , the elderly , the handicapped, just because Saddam isn't the US.

Oddly, I can prove that Saddam did do those things, whereas statements from the Iraqi people prove we are not. Make a case, or find something better to do with your time.

[Andy]

OK........ are there many others of this "ideology"??

More than half the US. Thankfully.

[Andy]

He finely left. Amazing. 12 pages of posts, with not one single shred of evidence supporting the original claim. I'm sure he'll be back with more hearsay accusations.

Here's to Politics, the war of empty rhetoric.

[BigRob]

He finely left. Amazing. 12 pages of posts, with not one single shred of evidence supporting the original claim. I'm sure he'll be back with more hearsay accusations.

Here's to Politics, the war of empty rhetoric.

He has to wait for the morning radical left wing blogopshere to weigh in before he has an opinion.

[Shadow]

Here's to Politics, the war of empty rhetoric.


yep.



.........and just think......YOU contributed to these oh my gosh, TWELVE pages of this topic . IF you don't like this topic ........STAY away from it. Put it and or me on ignore. You are quite "free" to do that.

[Shadow]

He has to wait for the morning radical left wing blogopshere to weigh in before he has an opinion.


resorting to talking ABOUT a poster this way is just about as low one one can get. Gossip material must be going through a serious drought for this to happen.


Having fun ganging up on another poster??? Get your "american" bullying jollies that way??

seems that my best move is to leave and then the "americans" can take full control of this forum. That would leave the right fighting the left and the status quo is resumed. It is obvious that anyone outside the US is not wanted . Good luck US. Some day , you will grow up and be able to ADMIT that you have a LOT of serious faults and stop projecting them onto others , while playing the poor pathetic victim.

[BigRob]

resorting to talking ABOUT a poster this way is just about as low one one can get. Gossip material must be going through a serious drought for this to happen.


Having fun ganging up on another poster??? Get your "american" bullying jollies that way??

seems that my best move is to leave and then the "americans" can take full control of this forum. That would leave the right fighting the left and the status quo is resumed. It is obvious that anyone outside the US is not wanted . Good luck US.

Play the good guy all you want. Sorry if we do not let bogus arguments that you do not even bother to back up fly here.

[Shadow]

Yes, I thought it was "we"....... as the only way you guys can make a point is by ganging up into a group. Group think.


and don't pretend to have any integrety. I presented articles written by well respected authors and they were just ignored ........as is everything that does NOT fit the US NEO CON "thought" mould.

Seems that the real issue is that you all are far too imature to accept responsibility for all the issues the US has , let alone ADMIT THEM.

this is NOT a court of law. where evidence is crucial. This is a discussion , nothing more , nothing less. Any juvenile bloke can claim "lack of substantiating proof". The problem is that even if there was HARD proof /evidence, folks like yourself would deny it anyhow.


Yes, Gen. there are numerous cultural implications on word usage as well receptive mindedness. What I have seen here is a very closed minded mindset that follows a certain , narrow formula and will not deviate into the unknown or consider other views...let alone critique........even if it is by well articulated US authors.

[BigRob]

Yes, I thought it was "we"....... as the only way you guys can make a point is by ganging up into a group. Group think.

It is group think that you did not back up your points?


and don't pretend to have any integrety. I presented articles written by well respected authors and they were just ignored ........as is everything that does NOT fit the US NEO CON "thought" mould.

Antiwar.com, counterpunch.org, and a Canadian website that make what many view as a debatable point is not ignoring your "evidence"


Seems that the real issue is that you all are far too imature to accept responsibility for all the issues the US has , let alone ADMIT THEM.

We are to immature to automatically agree with your point of view :rolleyes:


this is NOT a court of law. where evidence is crucial. This is a discussion , nothing more , nothing less. Any juvenile bloke can claim "lack of substantiating proof". The problem is that even if there was HARD proof /evidence, folks like yourself would deny it anyhow.

You basically admit that evidence to back up your claims is not important and you further admit that there is no HARD proof, and shrug this off as acceptable because "we would not listen to it anyway". Sad.


Yes, Gen. there are numerous cultural implications on word usage as well receptive mindedness. What I have seen here is a very closed minded mindset that follows a certain , narrow formula and will not deviate into the unknown or consider other views...let alone critique........even if it is by well articulated US authors.

I will consider any other view, provided that it is logically and has actual evidence to back it up. Just making a bogus claim with no proof and then saying that I am closed minded for not accepting it is bogus.

You are the one who said that the US is to blame for the problems with Russia and Georgia and then in the next post stated that when you find evidence you will expect an apology. What kind of open-minded debate is that?


It is debatable that the US missile deal with Poland is to blame for Russia's reactions. If you know anything about Russia's missile capabilities you will know that the missile shield that will be deployed will be worthless. What is would have an effect on is a nation like Iran, who would not have the warheads or missiles to overwhelm the system.

[Shadow]

You are the one who said that the US is to blame for the problems with Russia and Georgia and then in the next post stated that when you find evidence you will expect an apology

show me where I stated that I would expect an apology. SHOW ME THE EXACT QUOTE. Thanks.



( I said that the US was part and parcel of the issues between Russia and Geogia. Geogia is a US puppet. and the US went in like a gladiator to try to smooth things over........blaming Russia for the eruption. Geogia did the intial ATTACK. ( and according to some , with the US knowledge and ???? support??? .)

[BigRob]

show me where I stated that I would expect an apology. SHOW ME THE EXACT QUOTE. Thanks.



( I said that the US was part and parcel of the issues between Russia and Geogia. Geogia is a US puppet. and the US went in like a gladiator to try to smooth things over........blaming Russia for the eruption. Geogia did the intial ATTACK. ( and according to some , with the US knowledge and ???? support??? .)

My apologizes, it was "Not Amused" who said the following There you go again, listening to mainstream media. Why did Russia enter Ossetia?

Because Georgian troops launched a massive assault on the breakaway province of South Ossetia. The US most definitely had a hand in this action.

I expect a full apology from you, when this is found to be the case and mark my words, it most certainly will.

[NO Obamanation]

My apologizes, it was "Not Amused" who said the following

I am glad you were able to find it, I remembered reading it but figured it was "edited out" I could have sworn you had the right person the first time

[BigRob]

I am glad you were able to find it, I remembered reading it but figured it was "edited out" I could have sworn you had the right person the first time

Russia is now moving missiles into Georgia and is not really withdrawing.

[Andy]

yep.



.........and just think......YOU contributed to these oh my gosh, TWELVE pages of this topic . IF you don't like this topic ........STAY away from it. Put it and or me on ignore. You are quite "free" to do that.

See... yet another post without a single shred of support for the original claim. You proved me right again.

[Andy]

( I said that the US was part and parcel of the issues between Russia and Geogia. Geogia is a US puppet. and the US went in like a gladiator to try to smooth things over........blaming Russia for the eruption. Geogia did the intial ATTACK.