Gay marriage: Arguments Against it, and for it.

[Phenom]

Ask just about anyone. They'll all tell you they're in favor of equal rights for homosexuals. Just name the situation, and ask. They'll all say, yes, gays should have the same rights in housing, jobs, public accomodations, and should have equal access to government benefits, equal protection of the law, etcetera, etcetera.

Then you get to gay marriage.

And that's when all this talk of equality stops dead cold.

More than half of all people in the United States oppose gay marriage, even though three fourths are otherwise supportive of gay rights. This means that many of the same people who are even passionately in favor of gay rights oppose gays on this one issue.

Why all the passion?

It's because there is a lot of misunderstanding about what homosexuality really is, as well as the erroneous assumption that gay people enjoy the same civil rights protections as everyone else. There are also a lot of stereotypes about gay relationships, and even a great deal of misunderstanding of what marriage itself is all about and what its purpose is.

The purpose of this essay, then, is to clear up a few of these misunderstandings and discuss some of facts surrounding gay relationships and marriage, gay and straight.

First, let's discuss what gay relationships are really all about. The stereotype has it that gays are promiscuous, unable to form lasting relationships, and the relationships that do form are shallow and uncommitted. And gays do have such relationships!

But the important fact to note is that just like in straight society, where such relationships also exist, they are a small minority, and exist primarily among the very young. Indeed, one of the most frequent complaints of older gay men is that it is almost impossible to find quality single men to get into a relationship with, because they're already all 'taken!'

If you attend any gay event, such as a Pride festival or a PFLAG convention, you'll find this to be true. As gays age and mature, just like their straight cohorts, they begin to appreciate and find their way into long-term committed relationships.

The values that such gay couples exhibit in their daily lives are often indistinguishable from those of their straight neighbors. They're loyal to their mates, are monogamous, devoted partners. They value and participate in family life, are committed to making their neighborhoods and communities safer and better places to live, and honor and abide by the law. Many make valuable contributions to their communities, serving on school boards, volunteering in community charities, and trying to be good citizens. In doing so, they take full advantage of their relationship to make not only their own lives better, but those of their neighbors as well.

[Phenom]

Gay Marriage, I believe is unacceptable in an open society.

Marriage should be between a man and a wife, solely because man and a wife play a different role in a child's life. While mother plays the role of a nurturer, the father, when older plays the role of a role model and a friend.

It is obvious that two men raising the child is not as adequate as a man and a woman raising that child. No matter how feminine one of the male may be, men all share one trait that is always there, promiscuouity. Why? because men can impregnate many while women can only do it once.

[curefiend]

Gay Marriage should legal, it is a question of culture. In a multi-cultural society, a individuals own personal cultural philosophy shouldn't be forced on any one else. There is no emperical way of proving that a straight couple can raise a kid better than a gay couple, as we all know, that some gay couples can probably raise kids better than straight couples can we not? Its a matter of personal character of the parents themselves. You can't make blanket statements about a certain group of people and assume what the general outcome will be. Would you perfer kids to have no parents at all (foster kids that cannot be adopted by a loving gay couple)? If anyone believes that a child is better off in a foster home than being raised by a possibly loving gay couple, then it is clear that it is not the well-being of the child that they truly care about and it is more about their own personal bigotry towards homosexuals.

[Phenom]

so curefield,

you believe gay marriage is okai in an open society?

should these people freely express their homosexuality in front of children?

[curefiend]

I do believe gay marriage is okay in a open society...I think I narrated that pretty clearly in my initial post.

And in what sense do you mean express their homosexuality in front of children? Hold hands? I don't see why not.
If you are speaking of something sexually explicit, I don't think any one should be allowed to express themselves that way in front of children....
The same cultural expectations are still in tact, I would expect any couple of any sexual orientation to behave in an appropriate manner in public spaces. So I am not sure as to what you are suggesting.

[Phenom]

I see. I get your point. Even though I disagree with you, I appreciate your opinion.

[bcellboy]

I firmly support gay marriage. If two people love each other and want to commit themselves to each other, then they should be allowed to marry. Marriage is just a ceremony of two people entering a legally-binding contract. The primary reason people oppose gay marriage is their judeochristian beliefs.

As far as children go, I would much rather childrend grow up with a homosexual couple in a healthy, happy relationship than in a home where the husband abuses the wife or vice versa.

[curefiend]

If you dig deeper into my personal philosophy of marriage, I would suggest marriage being completely unrecognized by the state at all. What two people do is none of the states business, and certain lifestyles based off of personal choice shouldn't be promoted by the state. Why should singles or people that chose to live a life of a bachelor not receive the same financial benefits that the state offers married individuals?

Marriage, as those religiously inclined always suggest, is something spiritual, the definition of marriage should be left up to the church...not the state. There will be churches that recognized gay marriages, there will be those that do not. But it certainly not the states position to dictate the church's opinion on such trivial matters.

[samsara15]

Why should one have to provide any argument at all to give people basic human rights? Only as a legal contract should the state have any say in it at all. If the churches don't like it, let them do what they will. Gay people and those who wish can establish their own churches.

[DrFelch]

Gay Marriage, I believe is unacceptable in an open society.

Marriage should be between a man and a wife, solely because man and a wife play a different role in a child's life. While mother plays the role of a nurturer, the father, when older plays the role of a role model and a friend.

It is obvious that two men raising the child is not as adequate as a man and a woman raising that child. No matter how feminine one of the male may be, men all share one trait that is always there, promiscuouity. Why? because men can impregnate many while women can only do it once.

Geez, Phenom, That is kind of a right wing talking point, whether you realize it or not. All research done on this issue has indicated otherwise, specifically, that there is no trend toward disfunction or mental illness, or any other negative effect associated with the children of same sex couples, measured against their opposite sex couple parented counterparts. It is all very well and good to "believe" things based on your instincts, ( our president does it all the time, and just LOOK how well things are turning out!) But we as a country are better off if these decisions are informed by science and fact, instead of predjudice and red herrings.:eek:

[USMC the Almighty]

I support civil unions for gays -- that is, so they can enjoy all the rights of a married couple, but marriage? Hell no. It is absolutely ridiculous for the government to tell churches who they can and cannot marry. And since homosexuality is outlawed in virtually every religion, you'll have a tough time finding a church to marry to gays.

As for their culture, well candidly, I find it disgusting and unnatural. People weren't supposed to be gay. If everyone was gay then civilization would die out.

[MarkVI]

I feel the same way, USMC the Almighty.

Marriage is a religious ceremony, but a civil union gives the couples the rights they deserve.

Just because someone is gay doesn't mean they shouldn't have the same rights as everyone else. If I don't agree with someone's lifestyle, what is it to me?

[USMC the Almighty]

I feel the same way, USMC the Almighty.

Marriage is a religious ceremony, but a civil union gives the couples the rights they deserve.

Just because someone is gay doesn't mean they shouldn't have the same rights as everyone else. If I don't agree with someone's lifestyle, what is it to me?

You're right. I don't care about what gays do in the bedroom and hey, if they're dedicated to living their lives together, then who am I to say they can't? I might find their actions disgusting, but they are still Americans and deserve the unalienable rights outlined in our founding documents.

[Vlad]

I couldn't care less about gay marriages.

I think our country should focus on more important issues.

[USMC the Almighty]

I couldn't care less about gay marriages.

I think our country should focus on more important issues.

Agreed. But I still have an opinion on this issue, however trivial it might be.

[saggyjones]

Gay Marriage, I believe is unacceptable in an open society.

Marriage should be between a man and a wife, solely because man and a wife play a different role in a child's life. While mother plays the role of a nurturer, the father, when older plays the role of a role model and a friend.

It is obvious that two men raising the child is not as adequate as a man and a woman raising that child. No matter how feminine one of the male may be, men all share one trait that is always there, promiscuouity. Why? because men can impregnate many while women can only do it once.

But how would these parental differences affect the child's development? What is the adequate raising of a child?

[saggyjones]

I support civil unions for gays -- that is, so they can enjoy all the rights of a married couple, but marriage? Hell no. It is absolutely ridiculous for the government to tell churches who they can and cannot marry. And since homosexuality is outlawed in virtually every religion, you'll have a tough time finding a church to marry to gays.

What if gays did find a church willing to marry them? Would you support it then?

As for their culture, well candidly, I find it disgusting and unnatural. People weren't supposed to be gay. If everyone was gay then civilization would die out.

LOL you are so ridiculous. What gives you the idea that people weren't supposed to be gay? And of course everyone would die, that's like saying "if everyone was a woman humans would go extinct." But if you want to look at it that way then gays are actually helping the overpopulation problem.

[saggyjones]

I couldn't care less about gay marriages.

I think our country should focus on more important issues.

Yeah, you're right. We should ignore the demands of 4,300,000 our citizens (those are the openly gay ones) and forget about their civil rights.

I'm pretty sure the government can find time to address such a small issue.

[USMC the Almighty]

What if gays did find a church willing to marry them? Would you support it then?

No. I think that marriage is a religious sanctimony between a man and a woman.


What gives you the idea that people weren't supposed to be gay?

Because it's not natural. In a Darwinistic world, the breeds that can't reproduce don't stay around for too long. Being gay goes completely against the laws of nature.

But if you want to look at it that way then gays are actually helping the overpopulation problem.

Hahahahhahahaha.

[saggyjones]

No. I think that marriage is a religious sanctimony between a man and a woman.

But why do you get to force your beliefs on others? Why should your views influence the equality of everyone in our country? Gay people want to get married, how does that affect you?

Because it's not natural. In a Darwinistic world, the breeds that can't reproduce don't stay around for too long. Being gay goes completely against the laws of nature.

But gay people are still humans, so they aren't a different "breed", no matter how hard you try to deny it. Our species is very stable with birth rates and the problem in that area is overpopulation, not extinction. Also, gays adopt kids and provide a good life for them rather than a life in an orphanage.

Hahahahhahahaha.

Is that a sarcastic or real laugh?

[USMC the Almighty]

But why do you get to force your beliefs on others? Why should your views influence the equality of everyone in our country? Gay people want to get married, how does that affect you?

I'm not forcing my beliefs on anyone, I just disagree with the premise of two members of the same gender getting married. As I said, I support civil unions, just not marriage. Does it affect me? No, not really.

But gay people are still humans, so they aren't a different "breed", no matter how hard you try to deny it. Our species is very stable with birth rates and the problem in that area is overpopulation, not extinction. Also, gays adopt kids and provide a good life for them rather than a life in an orphanage.

I don't see how this supports your argument for gay marriage.

Is that a sarcastic or real laugh?

A little bit of both.

[saggyjones]

I'm not forcing my beliefs on anyone, I just disagree with the premise of two members of the same gender getting married. As I said, I support civil unions, just not marriage. Does it affect me? No, not really.

If it doesn't affect you then why do you care if they get married? What's your reason for disagreement?

But gay people are still humans, so they aren't a different "breed", no matter how hard you try to deny it. Our species is very stable with birth rates and the problem in that area is overpopulation, not extinction. Also, gays adopt kids and provide a good life for them rather than a life in an orphanage.

I don't see how this supports your argument for gay marriage.

Well you seem to classify gays as inhuman because they aren't "natural" but since they are human they deserve the same rights as everyone else, and I believe that includes marriage.

Also, married gays would provide more families for orphaned children, and that's another benefit of it.

An even better benefit of gay marriage would be that gays would start to feel normal in our society instead of being forced to live on the fringes. Many people don't even feel safe coming out and a lot of teens commit suicide for feelings portrayed as unnatural when really they are just different.

[Enlightened One]

While traditional marriage is a union between man and woman, I feel in an ever growing and vastly changing society, there should be and will be a much larger tolerance for gay marriage. Everyone know that as a child you need both genders as role models to mentally develop. Who's to say that a gay or lesbian couple could not raise a child properly? Yet at the same time a gay household wil be more influencial to a alternative lifestyle. Is it right? I personally think if you are content in who you are and stable, go for it. A gay couple may choose adoption, and the life the child has (especially if from overpopulated or 3rd world country) will be better and more diverse than the one they currently reside..

[Nammy]

While traditional marriage is a union between man and woman, I feel in an ever growing and vastly changing society, there should be and will be a much larger tolerance for gay marriage. Everyone know that as a child you need both genders as role models to mentally develop. Who's to say that a gay or lesbian couple could not raise a child properly? Yet at the same time a gay household wil be more influencial to a alternative lifestyle. Is it right? I personally think if you are content in who you are and stable, go for it. A gay couple may choose adoption, and the life the child has (especially if from overpopulated or 3rd world country) will be better and more diverse than the one they currently reside..

Yeah. Adoption will help the children from those third world countries.

I don't think there's anything wrong with gay marriages.

[USMC the Almighty]

I've already made my arguments. I think that Gays deserve the rights of marriage, but it is utterly ridiculous for the gov't to tell religions who they can and cannot marry.

I don't care what someone does behind closed doors. It's when they bring it out in public that it bothers me.

[Enlightened One]

I couldn't agree more USMC

[MarkVI]

Same here.

I never saw this issue as the government telling religions who to marry, but it appears that some are twisting it to that meaning by using the word marriage.

This issue is about equal rights for everyone, but we are being distracted with whether it will be "marriage" or not.

[RogueAqua]

And since homosexuality is outlawed in virtually every religion, you'll have a tough time finding a church to marry to gays.

As for their culture, well candidly, I find it disgusting and unnatural. People weren't supposed to be gay. If everyone was gay then civilization would die out.

Homosexuality may be outlawed in most religions, but not every, there are a few, such as Wicca, or Buddhism, that allow same sex marriage.

As for it being 'disgusting and unnatural', some may find it beautiful and natural. One person's opinion on a matter, should not govern the whole. And sence not everyone is gay, civilization will continue. There are more homosexuals 'out of the closet' now, than hundreds of years ago. There are also more humans on the earth than there where hundreds of years ago.

[USMC the Almighty]

Homosexuality may be outlawed in most religions, but not every, there are a few, such as Wicca, or Buddhism, that allow same sex marriage.

I'll take your word for it.

As for it being 'disgusting and unnatural', some may find it beautiful and natural. One person's opinion on a matter, should not govern the whole.

Which is why I said, "I've already made my arguments. I think that gays deserve the rights of marriage, but it is utterly ridiculous for the gov't to tell religions who they can and cannot marry.

I don't care what someone does behind closed doors. It's when they bring it out in public that it bothers me."

[RogueAqua]

I'll take your word for it.



Which is why I said, "I've already made my arguments. I think that gays deserve the rights of marriage, but it is utterly ridiculous for the gov't to tell religions who they can and cannot marry.

I don't care what someone does behind closed doors. It's when they bring it out in public that it bothers me."

So, you dont believe 2 men should be able to walk down the street holding hands?

[USMC the Almighty]

So, you dont believe 2 men should be able to walk down the street holding hands?

They should be able to, yes. But, candidly, it still bothers me. It's like when I get onto civilian aircraft and see Muslims on the plane. Of course they should be allowed to fly in the plane, but that's not to say that I still don't get a bit uneasy and discomforted.

[RogueAqua]

They should be able to, yes. But, candidly, it still bothers me. It's like when I get onto civilian aircraft and see Muslims on the plane. Of course they should be allowed to fly in the plane, but that's not to say that I still don't get a bit uneasy and discomforted.

As would I, to be honest. Granted, I've never been on an airplane, so I'd still be nervous about my first flight, but seeing Muslims on there, would make it slightly worse.
But what threat are homosexuals?

[Everylyric]

As would I, to be honest. Granted, I've never been on an airplane, so I'd still be nervous about my first flight, but seeing Muslims on there, would make it slightly worse.
But what threat are homosexuals?

True.

I don't see anything threatening about homosexuals.

[USMC the Almighty]

As would I, to be honest. Granted, I've never been on an airplane, so I'd still be nervous about my first flight, but seeing Muslims on there, would make it slightly worse.
But what threat are homosexuals?

Nothing at all is threatening about gays -- they, of all people, make me feel the least threatened. It just makes me a bit uncomfortable to see two guys making out, that's all.

[vyo476]

Nothing at all is threatening about gays -- they, of all people, make me feel the least threatened. It just makes me a bit uncomfortable to see two guys making out, that's all.

Fully candid and honest. I like you, man. But not too much, don't worry. ;)

[RogueAqua]

Nothing at all is threatening about gays -- they, of all people, make me feel the least threatened. It just makes me a bit uncomfortable to see two guys making out, that's all.

I also like the fact that your honest. That's a rare quallity these days.