Adolf Hitler

[FellowCitizen]

I think Hitler was a great man, but not great in the sense that he was killing innocent people, but great in the sense that he was able to market his ideas throughout the country.

Such charisma can only come from a great person.

Agree or disagree!

[Beatleworld]

i guess if you talk about his influence,

he is a great man

but no one can deny what he did was very bad

in that sense, he really destroyed that era

[samsara15]

So was Ghengiz Khan, Mao Ze Dong, or Tamerlane. Humanity would do well to have less such great men.

[Enlightened One]

Hitler was as rotten as they get, yeah sure he was a good at convincing Mobs of people to follow his insane plan, (He should have been on infomercials) but does that make one stand out as Great? Millions of people died in some of the most horrendous ways possible, I see no greatness. All I see from what I can gather, is a man who controlled mobs perhaps better than anyone, and in the end took the most cowardly way out.

[T3sting]

The thing is, Hitler was able to convince so many people to follow him and do the most heinous acts possible...

His skill of propaganda is just beyond limits.

I'm not saying saying that he is a good person, but that he's the best persuader ever.

[USMC the Almighty]

You're right, he is unquestionably a great leader. It's only what he did with all that power that was not so great.

[InterestedParty]

I have a real problem referring to this man as a great anything. I fully understand everyones use of the word, I can' help it.

I'd say he was influential, but I want to choke when I hear great.

[Abe Bird]

I think Hitler was a great man, but not great in the sense that he was killing innocent people, but great in the sense that he was able to market his ideas throughout the country.

Such charisma can only come from a great person.

Agree or disagree!

in the sense that he murdered tens of millions of people by wars, hate and holocaust. Only Stalin before him "achieved" and over ahead of him in that sense. Every totalitarian is 'great'. The question regarded is not the quantity but quality and values. And in that sense Hitler was the greatest satan of human kind in the last centuries.

[USMC the Almighty]

"I have always said that if Great Britain were defeated in war I hoped we should find a Hitler to lead us back to our rightful position among the nations. I am sorry, however, that he has not been mellowed by the great success that has attended him. The whole world would rejoice to see the Hitler of peace and tolerance, and nothing would adorn his name in world history so much as acts of magnanimity and of mercy and of pity to the forlorn and friendless, to the weak and poor. ... Let this great man search his own heart and conscience before he accuses anyone of being a warmonger."

-- Winston Churchill

"I hate nobody except Hitler — and that is professional."

-- Winston Churchill

[Kiyomori]

American Heritage Dictionary says:

1. Very large in size.
2. Larger in size than others of the same kind.
3. Large in quantity or number: A great throng awaited us. See Synonyms at large.
4. Extensive in time or distance: a great delay.
5. Remarkable or outstanding in magnitude, degree, or extent: a great crisis.
6. Of outstanding significance or importance: a great work of art.
7. Chief or principal: the great house on the estate.
8. Superior in quality or character; noble: "For he was great, ere fortune made him so" (John Dryden).
9. Powerful; influential: one of the great nations of the West.
10. Eminent; distinguished: a great leader.
11. Grand; aristocratic.
12. Informal Enthusiastic: a great lover of music.
13. Informal Very skillful: great at algebra.
14. Informal Very good; first-rate: We had a great time at the dance.
15. Being one generation removed from the relative specified. Often used in combination: a great-granddaughter.
16. Archaic Pregnant.



I'll give him 'powerful', but obviously he was not as powerful as his opponents. He lost the war. Influential: perhaps, but obviously not influential enough to gain the support he wanted from Britain.

I think overall it's clear the 'great' is probably not the wisest word to use to describe Hitler. It has too many positive connotations.

“How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think” A. hitler.

[Lilly Marlene]

Hitler can be called great in several of the ways mentioned above.

I have read some of his Mein Kampf and my sense is that his overarching intentions were noble ones. But he had what is called "a fixed idea" regarding 'racial purity' which gradually drove him insane.

[BeenAlongtime]

You think that his fixed idea was the thing that drove him insane?

[Lilly Marlene]

You think that his fixed idea was the thing that drove him insane?

Yeah that is just my impression, given how it seemed to obsess him so. Sometimes obsessions take over people.
Of course, I've heard that he also had some pathology ... maybe that could've affected his mind too.
I should look that up; I'm not sure whether that was a rumor or whether it was an undisputed fact.

[palerider]

I believe that hitler was charismatic. There is a difference between charaismatic and great however.

[vyo476]

Is there any particular reason we're having this discussion? Seriously, what good does this do any of us? Was Hitler "great" in the scope of his impact on the world?

I feel strongly compelled to revert to the childlike phrase of "Well...duh!"

Really. There are far more important issues that we could be discussing.

[Friendindeed]

Is there any particular reason we're having this discussion? Seriously, what good does this do any of us? Was Hitler "great" in the scope of his impact on the world?

I feel strongly compelled to revert to the childlike phrase of "Well...duh!"

Really. There are far more important issues that we could be discussing.



What does it matter to you if these people wanted to discuss this ? Micro manage much lol ?

[vyo476]

What does it matter to you if these people wanted to discuss this ? Micro manage much lol ?

I guess I just didn't see how it has a bearing on modern politics. If you have the means I'd suggest picking up a copy of Don DeLillo's "White Noise" (it has nothing to do with the recent movie of the same name) which is about an academic fraud who invents an entire collegiate department in "Hitler Studies."

[Rokerijdude11]

Here lets put Hiltler in Modern world era ,,,,,by Comparison
Do we all here know how it is Hitler was able to finally realize power and win the party? It was the Reichstag Fire a fire he planned himself in order to hoodwink the german people into blindly following Him and his Nazi Party... the fire was lit and others were blamed the german people fell for the ploy and the rest is history

why would this relate to modern politics? well one could easliy say because of the startling similarity of these events and the events of Sept 11 2001.where many say once again a "great" leader was propelled to power ,,,others were blamed and The American people Blindly rallyed support of the "New" leader



many would argue that these things are quite co-incidental and actually more when you Consider it was Bushs Great granddad Prescott Bush who helped finance the Nazi war machine....maye the saying is true the apple dosent fall far from the tree??

[vyo476]

Here lets put Hiltler in Modern world era ,,,,,by Comparison
Do we all here know how it is Hitler was able to finally realize power and win the party? It was the Reichstag Fire a fire he planned himself in order to hoodwink the german people into blindly following Him and his Nazi Party... the fire was lit and others were blamed the german people fell for the ploy and the rest is history

why would this relate to modern politics? well one could easliy say because of the startling similarity of these events and the events of Sept 11 2001.where many say once again a "great" leader was propelled to power ,,,others were blamed and The American people Blindly rallyed support of the "New" leader



many would argue that these things are quite co-incidental and actually more when you Consider it was Bushs Great granddad Prescott Bush who helped finance the Nazi war machine....maye the saying is true the apple dosent fall far from the tree??

George Bush was already President of the United States when 9/11 occurred. There aren't a whole lot of people who've called Bush a "great" leader; most of his supporters just say that he's decent at performing the job, not "great" (that's for the propaganda machines - listen to the actual people who support him and they'll tell you what's what in their minds).

It is easily provable through empirical evidence from the 30s that the Reichstag fire was set by Nazis. There is no empirical evidence that 9/11 was a US conspiracy.

And anyway...most of the detractors of President Bush make him out to be a complete idiot. Don't you think you're giving him just a little too much credit with this whole "it was an inside job!" thing?

[Rokerijdude11]

No actually I dont believe it was GW at all as you said he was already in the office at the time eh? so then that leaves the question ......WHO is the great leader? certainly not the trained chimpanzee in the suit they call GW

I certainly dont give him the credit for planning or masterminding 9-11? Hes not that smart...nor that far thinking no this must have been one of his PNAC handlers....... yes that is where it begins and twists and turns throughout all of the affiliated offshoots of the responsible entity

I sure do think W's Daddy and some others were way involved.......W was just a figure head and BTW it is systematically being questioned, and time will prove what happened at the trade towers that morning

Nobody descended upon the reichstag and shipped all of the evidence over-seas did they? how many years later did the truth surface? time is on my side ill paitiently wait for the truth to finally surface as it always does


was hitler a great man? no like GW he was surrounded by "great" men hitler was just the conduit

[Lilly Marlene]

I think Hitler is a fascinating subject all in himself, but does have practical applications for the exact reason cited by Rokerijdude, among others.

If you two read Mein Kampf you will see that he was not just a conduit; I have not read all of it by any means but the *vision* - for lack of a better word - was his own.

I also no longer believe that George W. Bush is the total dumba** he has prodded us to think he is. I now believe he has been fully aware of everything; all of his actions have been fully deliberate steps to implement the goals of PNAC.

[Grounded]

I also no longer believe that George W. Bush is the total dumba** he has prodded us to think he is. I now believe he has been fully aware of everything; all of his actions have been fully deliberate steps to implement the goals of PNAC.

I'm not too sure about that.

What makes you say that?

[Lilly Marlene]

Because if you look at the trajectory, it very closely resembles a time-honored strategy for ushering in fascism.

I can elaborate later when not so rushed and the house is less noisy ...

Have a nice evening - you and everyone,
Lilly

[The Founders Intent]

No actually I dont believe it was GW at all as you said he was already in the office at the time eh? so then that leaves the question ......WHO is the great leader? certainly not the trained chimpanzee in the suit they call GW

I certainly dont give him the credit for planning or masterminding 9-11? Hes not that smart...nor that far thinking no this must have been one of his PNAC handlers....... yes that is where it begins and twists and turns throughout all of the affiliated offshoots of the responsible entity

I sure do think W's Daddy and some others were way involved.......W was just a figure head and BTW it is systematically being questioned, and time will prove what happened at the trade towers that morning

Nobody descended upon the reichstag and shipped all of the evidence over-seas did they? how many years later did the truth surface? time is on my side ill paitiently wait for the truth to finally surface as it always does


was hitler a great man? no like GW he was surrounded by "great" men hitler was just the conduit
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/fb/TheTwilightZoneLogo.jpg

[Rokerijdude11]

what ...Exactly is your point?

if you have one?

[OswaldTheOsprey]

I believe that National Socialism good have gone in a different direction but for the Night of Long Knives. This was brought about by the unholy trio of Goering, Himmler and Heydrich. Had Strasser and Roehm triumphed, things could have been much different and for the better, IMHO.

OswaldTheOsprey

[vyo476]

I believe that National Socialism good have gone in a different direction but for the Night of Long Knives. This was brought about by the unholy trio of Goering, Himmler and Heydrich. Had Strasser and Roehm triumphed, things could have been much different and for the better, IMHO.

OswaldTheOsprey

Yeah, and if Trotsky had succeeded Lenin and not wound up in Mexico with a pickax in the back of his head the Soviet Union might have turned out better too.

Why didn't Trotsky and Strasser wind up at the head of their states? Because communism and fascism catered to the most vicious, ambitious leaders out there.

Hitler, Toho, Mussolini...

Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot...

Are we seeing a trend...?

[OswaldTheOsprey]

Yeah, and if Trotsky had succeeded Lenin and not wound up in Mexico with a pickax in the back of his head the Soviet Union might have turned out better too.

Why didn't Trotsky and Strasser wind up at the head of their states? Because communism and fascism catered to the most vicious, ambitious leaders out there.

Hitler, Toho, Mussolini...

Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot...

Are we seeing a trend...?

Perhaps. But what about Franco? Salazar?

OswaldTheOsprey

[vyo476]

Perhaps. But what about Franco? Salazar?

OswaldTheOsprey

Are you honestly trying to use Fransisco Franco as a positive example of fascism in action?

[OswaldTheOsprey]

Are you honestly trying to use Fransisco Franco as a positive example of fascism in action?

Enlighten me. What particulars do you have against Franco?

OswaldTheOsprey

[vyo476]

Enlighten me. What particulars do you have against Franco?

OswaldTheOsprey

Summary executions...rounding up of a dissidents and opponents as political prisoners...assassinations of opposition leaders...need I say more? He took martial law and paranoia to all new heights. He wasn't so unlike Stalin in that regard.

[OswaldTheOsprey]

Summary executions...rounding up of a dissidents and opponents as political prisoners...assassinations of opposition leaders...need I say more? He took martial law and paranoia to all new heights. He wasn't so unlike Stalin in that regard.

Most of the "opponents" were Stalinist loyalists. He also defied Hitler at critical junctures including saving Jews from the Holocaust. I do not say Franco was perfect-just much the lesser of evils.

OswaldTheOsprey

[vyo476]

Most of the "opponents" were Stalinist loyalists. He also defied Hitler at critical junctures including saving Jews from the Holocaust. I do not say Franco was perfect-just much the lesser of evils.


He was most definitely the lesser of evils. That sure as hell doesn't make him a positive example of fascism though.

[OswaldTheOsprey]

He was most definitely the lesser of evils. That sure as hell doesn't make him a positive example of fascism though.

Think of Franco as to Fascism as Tito to Communism. As to your original point, while it is true that Strasser lost out in 1932 and was killed in 1934, that does not mean that future Strassers are doomed to fail.

OswaldTheOsprey

[Justinian]

He was most definitely the lesser of evils. That sure as hell doesn't make him a positive example of fascism though.

Stalin, the lesser of two evils? I'll have to say Stalin was just as evil but with different wiring.

[OswaldTheOsprey]

Stalin, the lesser of two evils? I'll have to say Stalin was just as evil but with different wiring.

He was talking about Franco, not Stalin.

OswaldTheOsprey

[vyo476]

Stalin, the lesser of two evils? I'll have to say Stalin was just as evil but with different wiring.

Franco to Hitler, not Stalin to Hitler. We are in complete agreement on Stalin and Hitler, though.

[Justinian]

He was talking about Franco, not Stalin.

OswaldTheOsprey

My mistake. It's hard for me to say for sure what my real assertion is about Adolf Hitler since there is such a wealth of knowledge to learn about the whole affair. I know more about WWII than most people and have formulated an opinion on Hitler and his twisted thinking and twisted agenda. Now, Hitler was not a complete monster in his entirety. He was indeed a monster and a tragic tragic 'gift' to Germany as well as Europe. Looking at his character itself, I'll break it into two different parts of him making two different ways of looking at him. By his actions and by his principles. Both of these are rarely identical with people who acquire such power as is the case with Adolf Hitler. Judging Hitler's principles before he set out to do what he had done, I'd say perhaps 40% were noble and 60% were twisted, evil, provoking to violence and destructive.

Nazism is basically a fascist perversion of paleoconservatism which for those who are not aware is the understood rational, normal, most popular Political ideology (Globally speaking). He believed Germany was the greatest nation in the world and believed Germany had the greatest people in the world he coined as 'The aryan Race'. I don't know if he really believed that but he principally loved his people and firstly strove to return Germany to its glorious prosperity and pride once again. Hitler also believed Germany should only be comprised of Lutherans. This is also a noble cause most politicians would not dare speak let alone act upon. A common religion (although a common denomination is most definitely fascist) is in a nation a good thing and benefits it in more ways than can be counted. He also believed Germany should reconquer older German Territories like Poland and Austria. Another noble principle and beneficial to the encompassing countries. He was also completely abhorrant of Communism. This is also a noble principle because communism is basically anti-civilization.

It was not noble of him to think because of his belief that Aryans were superior that they should rule Europe, if not the world. This was not the cause of invading France which was revenge but he practically declared war on the world. And like I said before, although it is good to have a country of one religion, why should all other religions be domestically and internationally killed? Hitler believed people of other races and religions did not have a right to live especially in his own governed provinces. This is not a noble principle and can only be looked at as EVIL. He decided not to kick them out but to kill them off. Hitler also did not like intellectuals which is understanable but the intellectuals pointed things out to him that they were right about which Hitler later admitted. Scientists argued that even if German WAS a pure Aryan race and you killed off all of the retards, queers, cripples, etc, you would still have them because it is nature's character. Hitler idea of the perfect utopian society in his image was impossible, Evil and doomed from the start. These are the irrational things that created Hitler into the MADMAN we know and hate him for.


Hitler had many good ideas about Economics, he further expanded Western art and design in Germany. He also invested much of the country's money in research and technological development, something the Germans had prided themselves with for hundreds and hundreds of years. His education system resembled that of Napoleon's which was militaristic but vigorous and demanding.

Anyhow, Hitler flung Germany into a war which by his provocative action will turn into a war Germany and its allies couldn't hope to win industrially. The scope of the war became larger and larger and the Axis couldn't compete. One of the reasons Hitler probably invaded russia was to capture its western industrial might which was a terrible mistake and inflicted heavy casualties on Germany.

But the three biggest things Hitler must be hated for was his extermination of peoples and his mindless abuse of the German people. The Germans endured misery of the likes they had ever seen and yet Hitler refused to surrender. His own people whom he thought to care about so much he continued throwing into the meat grinder and have them return in body bags. Germany was destroyed and so was its people. Some leader he was. The third thing is the Second World War has led to the actual destruction of Europe's culture, governments and people. Europe has been going downhill ever since and is only getting worse. Example: The Roosevelts were from Holland. Holland is now overrun by Muslims. Church attendance is ever more declining, social integrity and character are at an all time low and the largest mosque in Europe is in Rome. Their economies are also begining to waver under new asian and indian threats handicapped by their socialistic DOGMA. Because of Hitler, Europe is in shambles.