9/11

[USMC the Almighty]

I can post endless amounts of links as well.

9/11 Truth is a bald regurgitation of a silly tale we heard ten years ago
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/12131349/
911_truth_bald_regurgitation_of_another_bombing_co nspiracy/1

The Mindset of 911 Scholars for Truth and Other Conspiracy Kooks Opinions on a Phenomena
http://www.elmerfudd.us/kooks911.htm

Understand the NIST report...

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/wtc/sund-flash.html

9/11 Conspiracy Debunking Sites...

9-11 and the New Pearl Harbor
http://www.gnn.tv/articles/2577/9_11_and_the_
New_Pearl_Harbor_Part_I

Journal Of Debunking 9/11 Conspiracy Theories
http://www.jod911.com

Debunking 9/11's E-Mail - Please read the FAQ before sending
debunk911@hotmail.com

911 Myths - Reading between the lines
http://www.911myths.com

Screw Loose Change Blog
http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/

Debunk 9/11 myths
http://www.debunk911myths.org/
Internet Detectives Group - Loose Change
http://internetdetectives.biz/case/loose-change

The 9/11 Debunker Guide
http://911debunker.livejournal.com/

Screw Loose Change - Not Freakin' Again edition
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-6596630292015140276&hl=en-CA

9/11, Steven Jones, and Me
http://ldspatriot.wordpress.com/tag/conspiracy-theories/

Your Friday Dose of Woo: And now for something completely different...
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2006/12/
your_friday_dose_of_woo_and_now_for_some.php

911 Cult Watch
http://www.911cultwatch.org.uk

What I Learned from 9-11 Conspiracy Theories.
http://www.sawyerhome.net/whatilearned.html

Pentagon & Boeing 757 Engine Investigation
http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/conspiracy/q0265.shtml

Pentagon & Boeing 757 Ground Effect
http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/conspiracy/q0274.shtml

Counterpunch The Physics of 9/11
http://www.counterpunch.org/physic11282006.html

The 9/11 Faith Movement
http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/2702/

Attempting to make sense of senseless acts
http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/story.html?id=903b3f4a-2e6c-47b4-b710-632c1439aacc&p=1

Did the U.S. government plan and execute the 9/11 attacks?
http://www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/911truth.html

Enough of the 9/11 Conspiracy Theories, Already
http://www.alternet.org/story/41601/

9/11 Conspiracy Fantasies
http://www.alternet.org/columnists/story/41423/

All Plots Move Deathward
http://insidehighered.com/views/2006/09/06/mclemee

9/11 Conspiracy Theories Persist, Thrive
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=2281052

Why The 9/11 Conspiracies Won't Go Away
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1531304,00.html

Popular Mechanics - 9/11: Debunking The Myths
http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html

Fahrenheit 2777
9/11 has generated the mother of all conspiracy theories
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000DA0E2-1E15-128A-9E1583414B7F0000

The Ground Zero Grassy Knoll
http://www.nymetro.com/news/features/16464/

Facts about 9/11. Not Fantasy
http://www.geocities.com/factsnotfantasy/

The September 11 X-Files
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/capitalgames?bid=3&pid=66

The 9/11 Conspiracy: A Skeptic’s View
http://www.crisispapers.org/essays6p/skeptic.htm

Debunking the 9/11 Movement
http://www.infoshop.org/texts/debunking911.html

Interview with Prof. Jonathan Barnett, an expert in structural and fire protection engineering who was one of the WTC investigators
http://www.wpi.edu/News/Transformations/2002Spring/fall.html
Public Eye - Post 9/11 Conspiracism
http://www.publiceye.org/conspire/Post911/demnowfaq.html

Public Eye- 9/11/01 - Repercussions General Conspiracist Views
http://www.publiceye.org/frontpage/911/conspiracist.html
Perry Logon's "Delusion Central" (A fun site.)
http://perrylogan.org/

Viewer Guide to Loose Change (Doc)
http://www.ccdominoes.com/lc/911_loose_change_2_guide_1.doc

9-11 Loose Change Second Edition Viewer Guide (A light hearted look)
http://www.ccdominoes.com/lc/LooseChangeGuide.html
Screw Loose Change Video. (Yes, it's finally here)
http://www.lolloosechange.co.nr/

Loose Trains
http://loosetrains911.blogspot.com/

Penn & Teller's Bull **** - 911 Conspiracy theories
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7501020220921158523&q=penn+teller+911

Salon - The 9/11 deniers
http://www.salon.com/ent/feature/2006/06/27/911_conspiracies/index.html

SciAm blog about conspiracists' reaction to Shermer
http://sciam-editor.typepad.com/weblog1/2005/05/a_conspiracy_of.html

In These Times: Nightmares of Reason: Sorting fact from fiction in 9/11 conspiracy theories
http://www.inthesetimes.com/issue/26/15/feature1.shtml

The September 11 X-Files
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/capitalgames?bid=3&pid=66

Snopes debunks "Hunt the Boeing", a conspiracy site based on Thierry Meysan’s (and David Ray Griffin’s) claim that a missile, not AA77, hit the Pentagon
http://www.snopes2.com/rumors/pentagon.htm

Wikipedia articles on conspiracy theory characteristics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_theories
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracism
It Was Flight 77 - Debunking Alternative Pentagon Crash Theories
http://www.geocities.com/someguyyoudontknow33/

Peer reviewed papers and articles on how the towers collapsed..

Engineers Explain WTC Collapse
http://www.architectureweek.com/2002/0529/news_3-1.html

Report Ties WTC Collapses to Column Failures
http://enr.construction.com/news/buildings/archives/040119.asp

IT WAS THE FIRE, CAUSED THE TWIN TOWER COLLAPSE - icivilengineer.com
http://www.icivilengineer.com/News/WTC/Fire.html

Simulation for the collapse of WTC after aeroplane impact - Lu XZ., Yang N., Jiang JJ. Structure Engineer, 66(sup.). 2003, 18-22

Bazant, Z.P., & Zhou, Y.
"Addendum to 'Why Did the World Trade Center Collapse? - Simple Analysis" (pdf)
Journal of Engineering Mechanics v. 128, no. 3, (2002): 369-370.

Brannigan, F.L.
"WTC: Lightweight Steel and High-Rise Buildings"
Fire Engineering v.155, no. 4, (2002): 145-150.

Clifton, Charles G.
Elaboration on Aspects of the Postulated Collapse of the World Trade Centre Twin Towers
HERA: Innovation in Metals. 2001. 13 December 2001.

"Construction and Collapse Factors"
Fire Engineering v.155, no. 10, (2002): 106-108.

Corbett, G.P.
"Learning and Applying the Lessons of the WTC Disaster"
Fire Engineering v.155, no. 10, (2002.): 133-135.

"Dissecting the Collapses"
Civil Engineering ASCE v. 72, no. 5, (2002): 36-46.

Eagar, T.W., & Musso, C.
"Why Did the World Trade Center Collapse? Science, Engineering, and Speculation"
JOM v. 53, no. 12, (2001): 8-12.

Federal Emergency Management Agency, Therese McAllister, report editor.
World Trade Center Building Performance Study: Data Collection, Preliminary Observations, and Recommendations
(also available on-line)

Gabrielson, T.B., Poese, M.E., & Atchley, A.A.
"Acoustic and Vibration Background Noise in the Collapsed Structure of the World Trade Center"
The Journal of Acoustical Society of America v. 113, no. 1, (2003): 45-48.

Glover, N.J.
"Collapse Lessons"
Fire Engineering v. 155, no. 10, (2002): 97-103

Marechaux, T.G.
"TMS Hot Topic Symposium Examines WTC Collapse and Building Engineering"
JOM, v. 54, no. 4, (2002): 13-17.

Monahan, B.
"World Trade Center Collapse-Civil Engineering Considerations"
Practice Periodical on Structural Design and Construction v. 7, no. 3, (2002): 134-135.

Newland, D.E., & Cebon, D.
"Could the World Trade Center Have Been Modified to Prevent Its Collapse?"
Journal of Engineering Mechanics v. 128, no. 7, (2002):795-800.

National Instititue of Stamdards and Technology: Congressional and Legislative Affairs
“Learning from 9/11: Understanding the Collapse of the World Trade Center”
Statement of Dr. Arden L. Bement, Jr., before Committee of Science House of Representatives, United States Congress on March 6, 2002.

Pinsker, Lisa, M.
"Applying Geology at the World Trade Center Site"
Geotimes v. 46, no. 11, (2001).
The print copy has 3-D images.

Public Broadcasting Station (PBS)
Why the Towers Fell: A Companion Website to the Television Documentary.
NOVA (Science Programming On Air and Online)

Post, N.M.
"No Code Changes Recommended in World Trade Center Report"
ENR v. 248, no. 14, (2002): 14.

Post, N.M.
"Study Absolves Twin Tower Trusses, Fireproofing"
ENR v. 249, no. 19, (2002): 12-14.

The University of Sydney, Department of Civil Engineering
World Trade Center - Some Engineering Aspects
A resource site.

"WTC Engineers Credit Design in Saving Thousands of Lives"
ENR v. 247, no. 16, (2001): 12.

The Towers Lost and Beyond
http://web.mit.edu/civenv/wtc/
Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Eduardo Kausel, John E. Fernandez, Tomasz Wierzbicki, Liang Xue, Meg Hendry-Brogan, Ahmed F. Ghoniem, Oral Buyukozturk, Franz-Josef Ulm, Yossi Sheffi

[USMC the Almighty]

Are you happy Spam and Scott. You asked your questions, which is fine, and they have been answered/explained over and over again by real scientists.

Now can we get on to the real issues?

[n0spam4me]

OK, so you have read the "official 9/11 report" and you are satisfied that it was a proper use of your tax dollars to fund it, and you have no problem with the way WTC7 fell, and the seriously strange nature of the "FLT77 hitting the PENTAGON" fiasco .....

I guess we just have to agree to dissagree .....


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
and as we all know
9/11 was an inside job!
.

[USMC the Almighty]

OK, so you have read the "official 9/11 report" and you are satisfied that it was a proper use of your tax dollars to fund it, and you have no problem with the way WTC7 fell, and the seriously strange nature of the "FLT77 hitting the PENTAGON" fiasco .....

All of this, including the picture next to your name is addressed somewhere in those links.

I guess we just have to agree to dissagree .....

... and move on to actual issues.

[n0spam4me]

I really just don't get it?
Why is Perry Logon's "Delusion Central" (A fun site.)
http://perrylogan.org/
in your list of web-pages?

[Friendindeed]

The problem is that a lot of us don't find those explanations conclusive, USMC.

[USMC the Almighty]

The problem is that a lot of us don't find those explanations conclusive, USMC.

Fair enough. I don't see how a lot of them could get any more scientifically conclusive, but that's my personal opinion.

I'll assume for a second that you actually did read a few of these links -- I personally believe that you went into reading the explanations with an extremely closed mind (i.e. your mind was already made up) and so you weren't even considering the arguments put forth.

To me, scientific evidence and proof is a lot more convincing then simply asking questions and stringing together a couple of odd coincidences. There were a lot of firsts and unprecedented events that day. Never before had a 767 loaded with jet fuel launched full speed into skyriser, so of course there were some surprising outcomes.

[Friendindeed]

"NIST’s final report stated that of the steel available to it for examination, "only three columns had evidence that the steel reached temperatures above 250 degrees Celsius" (482 degrees Fahrenheit). The self-cleaning ovens in our home kitchens reach temperatures higher than this, and the ovens do not melt or deform."

I am having big time technical trouble with this site now, s-l-o-w loading.

[TVoffBrainOn]

I'll assume for a second that you actually did read a few of these links -- I personally believe that you went into reading the explanations with an extremely closed mind (i.e. your mind was already made up) and so you weren't even considering the arguments put forth..

would you say you read Dr Steven Jones synopsis with exactly the same frame of mind?

i don't care much for arguing about the towers. neither side is convincing enough for me (demolition/conspiracy vs burning jet fuel weakened steel/conspiracy). it all distracts from the real issues of 9/11 i.e
- Cheney's shoot down/non shootdown orders
- Mineta's 911 commission testimony being omitted from the report.

Secretary Mineta: “During the time that the airplane was coming into the Pentagon, there was a young man who would come in and say to the Vice President…the plane is 50 miles out…the plane is 30 miles out….and when it got down to the plane is 10 miles out, the young man also said to the vice president “do the orders still stand?” And the Vice President turned and whipped his neck around and said “Of course the orders still stand, have you heard anything to the contrary!??”

- Norad
- Able Danger
- Vigilant Guardian
- PDB "Bin Laden determined to attack US"
- stock dumps and Foreknowledge throughout CIA, FBI, Pakistani ISS, Israeli Mosad
- President's utter failure to defend his country.

Im tired of my scientist vs your scientist debates.

[USMC the Almighty]

would you say you read Dr Steven Jones synopsis with exactly the same frame of mind?

I tried. I don't deny that there are a lot of unanswered questions -- but questions alone are not enough to convince me that our government plotted this attack.

I don't care much for arguing about the towers. neither side is convincing enough for me (demolition/conspiracy vs burning jet fuel weakened steel/conspiracy). it all distracts from the real issues of 9/11 i.e
- Cheney's shoot down/non shootdown orders
- Mineta's 911 commission testimony being omitted from the report.

Secretary Mineta: “During the time that the airplane was coming into the Pentagon, there was a young man who would come in and say to the Vice President…the plane is 50 miles out…the plane is 30 miles out….and when it got down to the plane is 10 miles out, the young man also said to the vice president “do the orders still stand?” And the Vice President turned and whipped his neck around and said “Of course the orders still stand, have you heard anything to the contrary!??”

- Norad
- Able Danger
- Vigilant Guardian
- PDB "Bin Laden determined to attack US"
- stock dumps and Foreknowledge throughout CIA, FBI, Pakistani ISS, Israeli Mosad
- President's utter failure to defend his country.

Im tired of my scientist vs your scientist debates.

Again, I don't have all the answers -- there are perfectly reasonable explanations for these in some of those sources I posted. Neither of us were there...

[TVoffBrainOn]

I tried. I don't deny that there are a lot of unanswered questions -- but questions alone are not enough to convince me that our government plotted this attack.



Again, I don't have all the answers -- there are perfectly reasonable explanations for these in some of those sources I posted. Neither of us were there...

i don't think our gov't plotted 9/11. I do however, have strong feelings towards the possibility (supported by evidence AND reason) that they were aware of it, allowed it, and embellished it for political reasons.

[TVoffBrainOn]

I can post endless amounts of links as well.

9/11 Truth is a bald regurgitation of a silly tale we heard ten years ago
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/12131349/
911_truth_bald_regurgitation_of_another_bombing_co nspiracy/1

The Mindset of 911 Scholars for Truth and Other Conspiracy Kooks Opinions on a Phenomena
http://www.elmerfudd.us/kooks911.htm

Understand the NIST report...

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/wtc/sund-flash.html

9/11 Conspiracy Debunking Sites...

9-11 and the New Pearl Harbor
http://www.gnn.tv/articles/2577/9_11_and_the_
New_Pearl_Harbor_Part_I

Journal Of Debunking 9/11 Conspiracy Theories
http://www.jod911.com

Debunking 9/11's E-Mail - Please read the FAQ before sending
debunk911@hotmail.com

911 Myths - Reading between the lines
http://www.911myths.com



i skimmed over all those links, i couldn't find anything that discussed any facts on the following
- Molten steel found weeks later under the rubble of the WTC
- any reference to dozens of witness accounts within the WTC of what sounded like explosions in the lower levels of the WTC
- Able Danger/Atta/Weldon
- Norad
- NYFD tapes
- 9/11 testimony stricken from the record
- foreknowledge

what i see is weak disinformation tactics, taking fringe theories that are easy to poke holes in while largely ignoring the bigger picture. The 9/11 commission report, as well as the FEMA and NIST reports on 9/11 are full of just as many if not more holes than even the most far our "conspiracy" theories.

[USMC the Almighty]

i skimmed over all those links, i couldn't find anything that discussed any facts on the following
- Molten steel found weeks later under the rubble of the WTC
- any reference to dozens of witness accounts within the WTC of what sounded like explosions in the lower levels of the WTC
- Able Danger/Atta/Weldon
- Norad
- NYFD tapes
- 9/11 testimony stricken from the record
- foreknowledge

what i see is weak disinformation tactics, taking fringe theories that are easy to poke holes in while largely ignoring the bigger picture. The 9/11 commission report, as well as the FEMA and NIST reports on 9/11 are full of just as many if not more holes than even the most far our "conspiracy" theories.

Skim them again, because you missed it.

[TVoffBrainOn]

Skim them again, because you missed it.

facts...none

[USMC the Almighty]

facts...none

If you don't see any facts in what I've posted then there is no point to further arguing this point with you, because there is nothing that will ever convince you.

I guess you just need a cause to join or else you feel small and irrelevant...

[TVoffBrainOn]

If you don't see any facts in what I've posted then there is no point to further arguing this point with you, because there is nothing that will ever convince you.

I guess you just need a cause to join or else you feel small and irrelevant...

i merely ask questions. if you think you're "debunking" sites provide "facts" than you are as blinded as the "loose change" crowd.

all the "facts" that both sides provide in the case of the towers collapse are theoretical at best. Firts off, the evidence was never properly analyzed. Second, they are dealing with a case with no precedent. third, gov't oversight and corruption made a truely scientific analysis impossible.

so you can save your truss, pancake, and bomb theories for those who have chosen a side based on weak internet sites and little to no reasearch of their own. save your "science" for someone who needs a cause to join, it obviously worked for you.

If you think 9/11 was the sole result of terrorist's hating our freedom, then you are a moron. If you think george bush and dick cheney put bombs in the WTC, then you are a moron. If you think you know the answer to the question "what happened on 9/11?", then you are ignorant.

[Friendindeed]

If you don't see any facts in what I've posted then there is no point to further arguing this point with you, because there is nothing that will ever convince you.

I guess you just need a cause to join or else you feel small and irrelevant...


Are personal attacks really going to help convince anyone of the official version ?

[USMC the Almighty]

If you think 9/11 was the sole result of terrorist's hating our freedom, then you are a moron.

They hate us for a number of reasons.

(1) They resent the West for its freedoms, and since 1972, the U.S. has come to represent the West.

(2) They hate the U.S. because it is the most powerful country in the world and isn't a theocratic dictatorship under Sharia law.

(3) They hate the U.S. because we support Israel politically, financially, and militarily.

Shall I continue...

[TVoffBrainOn]

They hate us for a number of reasons.

(1) They resent the West for its freedoms, and since 1972, the U.S. has come to represent the West.

(2) They hate the U.S. because it is the most powerful country in the world and isn't a theocratic dictatorship under Sharia law.

(3) They hate the U.S. because we support Israel politically, financially, and militarily.

Shall I continue...

From 1945 to the end of the century, the United States attempted to overthrow more than 40 foreign governments, and to crush more than 30 populist-nationalist movements struggling against intolerable regimes.
In the process, the US caused the end of life for several million people, and condemned many millions more to a life of agony and despair.

We are hated because of what we do around the world, not how we live within our own country.

[USMC the Almighty]

From 1945 to the end of the century, the United States attempted to overthrow more than 40 foreign governments, and to crush more than 30 populist-nationalist movements struggling against intolerable regimes.

This sentence contradicts itself.

In the process, the US caused the end of life for several million people, and condemned many millions more to a life of agony and despair.

We are hated because of what we do around the world, not how we live within our own country.

I'll admit - the U.S. has made mistakes that resulted in deaths -- pulling out of Vietnam for one, but you deliberately do not take into account the countless numbers of lives that have been saved as a result of U.S. humanitarian efforts. The U.S., both through the government and private charities, is the most charitable nation on earth. We do more for the rest of the world than any other country and all we get in return is resentment.

[n0spam4me]

http://www.neravt.com/left/invade.htm

WORLD WAR II 1941-45 Naval, troops, bombing, nuclear Hawaii bombed, fought Japan, Italy and Germay for 3 years; first nuclear war.

DETROIT 1943 Troops Army put down Black rebellion.

IRAN 1946 Nuclear threat Soviet troops told to leave north.

YUGOSLAVIA 1946 Nuclear threat, naval Response to shoot-down of US plane.

URUGUAY 1947 Nuclear threat Bombers deployed as show of strength.

GREECE 1947-49 Command operation U.S. directs extreme-right in civil war.

GERMANY 1948 Nuclear Threat Atomic-capable bombers guard Berlin Airlift.

CHINA 1948-49 Troops/Marines evacuate Americans before Communist victory.

PHILIPPINES 1948-54 Command operation CIA directs war against Huk Rebellion.

PUERTO RICO 1950 Command operation Independence rebellion crushed in Ponce.

KOREA 1951-53 (-?) Troops, naval, bombing , nuclear threats U.S./So. Korea fights China/No. Korea to stalemate; A-bomb threat in 1950, and against China in 1953. Still have bases.

IRAN 1953 Command Operation CIA overthrows democracy, installs Shah.

VIETNAM 1954 Nuclear threat French offered bombs to use against seige.

GUATEMALA 1954 Command operation, bombing, nuclear threat CIA directs exile invasion after new gov't nationalized U.S. company lands; bombers based in Nicaragua.

EGYPT 1956 Nuclear threat, troops Soviets told to keep out of Suez crisis; Marines evacuate foreigners.

LEBANON l958 Troops, naval Marine occupation against rebels.

IRAQ 1958 Nuclear threat Iraq warned against invading Kuwait.

CHINA l958 Nuclear threat China told not to move on Taiwan isles.

PANAMA 1958 Troops Flag protests erupt into confrontation.

VIETNAM l960-75 Troops, naval, bombing, nuclear threats Fought South Vietnam revolt & North Vietnam; one million killed in longest U.S. war; atomic bomb threats in l968 and l969.

LAOS 1962 Command operation Military buildup during guerrilla war.

CUBA l961 Command operation CIA-directed exile invasion fails.

GERMANY l961 Nuclear threat Alert during Berlin Wall crisis.

CUBA l962 Nuclear threat, naval Blockade during missile crisis; near-war with Soviet Union.

PANAMA l964 Troops Panamanians shot for urging canal's return.

INDONESIA l965 Command operation Million killed in CIA-assisted army coup.

DOMINICAN REPUBLIC 1965-66 Troops, bombing Marines land during election campaign.

GUATEMALA l966-67 Command operation Green Berets intervene against rebels.

DETROIT l967 Troops Army battles Blacks, 43 killed.

UNITED STATES l968 Troops After King is shot; over 21,000 soldiers in cities.

CAMBODIA l969-75 Bombing, troops, naval Up to 2 million killed in decade of bombing, starvation, and political chaos.

OMAN l970 Command operation U.S. directs Iranian marine invasion.

LAOS l971-73 Command operation, bombing U.S. directs South Vietnamese invasion; "carpet-bombs" countryside.

SOUTH DAKOTA l973 Command operation Army directs Wounded Knee siege of Lakotas.

MIDEAST 1973 Nuclear threat World-wide alert during Mideast War.

CHILE 1973 Command operation CIA-backed coup ousts elected marxist president.

CAMBODIA l975 Troops, bombing Gas captured ship, 28 die in copter crash.

ANGOLA l976-92 Command operation CIA assists South African-backed rebels.

IRAN l980 Troops, nuclear threat, aborted bombing Raid to rescue Embassy hostages; 8 troops die in copter-plane crash. Soviets warned not to get involved in revolution.

LIBYA l981 Naval jets Two Libyan jets shot down in maneuvers.

EL SALVADOR l981-92 Command operation, troops Advisors, overflights aid anti-rebel war, soldiers briefly involved in hostage clash.

NICARAGUA l981-90 Command operation, naval CIA directs exile (Contra) invasions, plants harbor mines against revolution.

LEBANON l982-84 Naval, bombing, troops Marines expel PLO and back Phalangists, Navy bombs and shells Muslim positions.

GRENADA l983-84 Troops, bombing Invasion four years after revolution.

HONDURAS l983-89 Troops Maneuvers help build bases near borders.

IRAN l984 Jets Two Iranian jets shot down over Persian Gulf.

LIBYA l986 Bombing, naval Air strikes to topple nationalist gov't.

BOLIVIA 1986 Troops Army assists raids on cocaine region.

IRAN l987-88 Naval, bombing US intervenes on side of Iraq in war.

LIBYA 1989 Naval jets Two Libyan jets shot down.

VIRGIN ISLANDS 1989 Troops St. Croix Black unrest after storm.

PHILIPPINES 1989 Jets Air cover provided for government against coup.

PANAMA 1989 (-?) Troops, bombing Nationalist government ousted by 27,000 soldiers, leaders arrested, 2000+ killed.

LIBERIA 1990 Troops Foreigners evacuated during civil war.

SAUDI ARABIA 1990-91 Troops, jets Iraq countered after invading Kuwait. 540,000 troops also stationed in Oman, Qatar, Bahrain, UAE, Israel.

IRAQ 1990-? Bombing, troops, naval Blockade of Iraqi and Jordanian ports, air strikes; 200,000+ killed in invasion of Iraq and Kuwait; no-fly zone over Kurdish north, Shiite south, large-scale destruction of Iraqi military.

KUWAIT 1991 Naval, bombing, troops Kuwait royal family returned to throne.

LOS ANGELES 1992 Troops Army, Marines deployed against anti-police uprising.

SOMALIA 1992-94 Troops, naval, bombing U.S.-led United Nations occupation during civil war; raids against one Mogadishu faction.

YUGOSLAVIA 1992-94 Naval NATO blockade of Serbia and Montenegro.

BOSNIA 1993-? Jets, bombing No-fly zone patrolled in civil war; downed jets, bombed Serbs.

HAITI 1994-? Troops, naval Blockade against military government; troops restore President Aristide to office three years after coup.

ZAIRE (CONGO) 1996-97 Troops Marines at Rwandan Hutu refugee camps, in area where Congo revolution begins.

LIBERIA 1997 Troops Soldiers under fire during evacuation of foreigners.

ALBANIA 1997 Troops Soldiers under fire during evacuation of foreigners.

SUDAN 1998 Missiles Attack on pharmaceutical plant alleged to be "terrorist" nerve gas plant.

AFGHANISTAN 1998 Missiles Attack on former CIA training camps used by Islamic fundamentalist groups alleged to have attacked embassies.

IRAQ 1998-? Bombing, Missiles Four days of intensive air strikes after weapons inspectors allege Iraqi obstructions.

YUGOSLAVIA 1999 Bombing, Missiles Heavy NATO air strikes after Serbia declines to withdraw from Kosovo. NATO occupation of Kosovo.

YEMEN 2000 Naval USS Cole bombed.

MACEDONIA 2001 Troops NATO forces deployed to move and disarm Albanian rebels.

UNITED STATES 2001 Jets, naval Reaction to hijacker attacks on New York, DC

AFGHANISTAN 2001-? Troops, bombing, missiles Massive U.S. mobilization to overthrow Taliban, hunt Al Qaeda fighters, install Karzai regime. Forces also engaged in neighboring Pakistan.

YEMEN 2002 Missiles Predator drone missile attack on Al Qaeda, including a US citizen.

PHILIPPINES 2002 Troops, naval Training mission for Philippine military fighting Muslim Abu Sayyaf rebels evolves into US combat missions in Sulu Archipelago next to Mindanao.

COLOMBIA 2003-? Troops US special forces sent to rebel zone to back up Colombian military protecting oil pipeline.

IRAQ 2003-? Troops, naval, bombing, missiles Second Gulf War launched for "regime change" in Baghdad. US, joined by UK and Australia, attacks from Kuwait, other Gulf states, and European and US bases.

[USMC the Almighty]

What the hell was the point of that?

I don't have the time nor the inclination to go through and discuss/refute each point one by one, but I will say one thing: this list here ignores the positive affects that the U.S. had. Many of these missions and campaigns were short, with little shooting, and centered around humanitarianism.

Some on this list are just comical -- clearly added for no purpose other than to create the illusion of an "illustrious" history of American "imperialism". Rodney King riots? Hahaha.

And why are straight up terrorist attacks like the USS Cole on the list? A shot wasn't even fire -- that's the reason that the ship was even attacked -- stupid ROE.

EDIT TO ADD: If you would like to discuss one or a few of these, I would enjoy that, but let's use our knowledge and reasoning ability -- not just copying and pasting endless lists from extremist websites driven by a partisan agenda.

[Rokerijdude11]

I believe it was posted as an example of all the times That the Unites Staes has in fact ...........

"attempted to overthrow more than 40 foreign governments, and to crush more than 30 populist-nationalist movements struggling against intolerable regimes."

by demonstrating all of the times the US has been involved
im sure had you picked any number of points the OP would have reponded?

[USMC the Almighty]

I believe it was posted as an example of all the times That the Unites Staes has in fact ...........

"attempted to overthrow more than 40 foreign governments, and to crush more than 30 populist-nationalist movements struggling against intolerable regimes."

by demonstrating all of the times the US has been involved
im sure had you picked any number of points the OP would have reponded?

Fair enough, but look at them. They don't all fit the description. What does the USS Cole bombing have to do with "attempting to overthrow foreign gov'ts"?

[Rokerijdude11]

I agree they dont all fit that but then again i was speaking for someone else and shouldnt have been as i may have been wrong in what i thought they meant

[The Founders Intent]

Skim them again, because you missed it.

So you are playing both sides of the issue? You think that Bush allowed these attacks, so we could go to war? Bin Laden was hired by the CIA to plan the attack and fly planes into the WTC so we could go to war with Iraq? All this was done, so that the Bush family could be our dictators? I'm sure there are incidents of plotting for political advantage, but for an entire group of people to walk into the WH and after 8 months carry off the most diabolical deception in history seems a stretch. That would mean that our intelligence agencies, law enforcement agencies, DoD and many high rank departments in the Executive Branch are so thoroughly corrupt that not a single leak occured because everyone hated their country.

Set me straight, is that what you think could possibly have happened?

[vyo476]

So you are playing both sides of the issue? You think that Bush allowed these attacks, so we could go to war? Bin Laden was hired by the CIA to plan the attack and fly planes into the WTC so we could go to war with Iraq? All this was done, so that the Bush family could be our dictators? I'm sure there are incidents of plotting for political advantage, but for an entire group of people to walk into the WH and after 8 months carry off the most diabolical deception in history seems a stretch. That would mean that our intelligence agencies, law enforcement agencies, DoD and many high rank departments in the Executive Branch are so thoroughly corrupt that not a single leak occured because everyone hated their country.

Set me straight, is that what you think could possibly have happened?

There are a couple threads that have to do with the proposition of 9/11 being an "inside job." USMC wasn't behind that particular rhetoric but there were a few others who posted in favor of that idea. I wish you'd been around for it; there are excellent points throughout your statement there.

Unfortunately, excellent points matter very little to conspiracy nuts.

[The Founders Intent]

Yes, I'm aware of the claim that the Pentagon plane was smaller than claimed, that footage was manipulated in various 9/11 scenes, that Building 7 was brought down, and all that stuff. They don't tell you that firefighters didn't want to enter that building because it was already consider weak after the attack....it's all nuts in my book.

[n0spam4me]

You say in just 8 months..... How about something that has been brewing since before 1963? Remember Eisenhower warned AMERICA about the Military Industrial Complex and also there are Texas Oil Men who have designs on power, but they are crazy.... Really you could say that bits of the Demise of AMERICA have been working on it since 1913. oh well,
Just my $0.02 worth here but if WE_THE_PEOPLE want to have AMERICA with a CONSTITUTION just like the founders intended, I think we have a LOT of work to do. You know about the Patriot act and also the Military Comissions act, both UNCONSTITUTIONAL! Has Congress made any move to correct this?
Have you contacted your representitives and DEMANDED that they work for the PEOPLE if this nation and not greed inc. (?) .... or?

So you are playing both sides of the issue? You think that Bush allowed these attacks, so we could go to war? Bin Laden was hired by the CIA to plan the attack and fly planes into the WTC so we could go to war with Iraq? All this was done, so that the Bush family could be our dictators? I'm sure there are incidents of plotting for political advantage, but for an entire group of people to walk into the WH and after 8 months carry off the most diabolical deception in history seems a stretch. That would mean that our intelligence agencies, law enforcement agencies, DoD and many high rank departments in the Executive Branch are so thoroughly corrupt that not a single leak occured because everyone hated their country.

Set me straight, is that what you think could possibly have happened?

I can't tell exactly what happened or how, but I trust my own eyes and the WTC7 "collapse" was CONTROLED DEMOLITION! + I don't know about everybody else here but I consider it unacceptable that the worlds greatest military power FAILED to defend even its own HQ. More than half an hour elapsed between the second hit to the WTC and the hit to the PENTAGON.
Just exactly what was Richard Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld doing for that half an hour? WE_THE_PEOPLE pay big bux in taxes to support a DEFENSE DEPARTMENT and did we get our moneys worth?
The Bush regime has taken every oportunity to steal from the AMERICAN taxpayer!

Call your Congresspeople and KEVTCH A LOT!

[Rokerijdude11]

Unfortunately, excellent points matter very little to conspiracy nuts.

nothing like hurling blanket insults around