Hugo Chavez

[9sublime]

What is everyones view on Chavez. There isn't a South American sub section so I thought I would put it in the main one.

[Fonz]

What is everyones view on Chavez. There isn't a South American sub section so I thought I would put it in the main one.

Chavez is harmless.

[Truth-Bringer]

What is everyones view on Chavez. There isn't a South American sub section so I thought I would put it in the main one.

He's just another idiotic communist thug. If not for the oil their economy would be in trouble. Still, there's no point for the U.S. to intervene. If you just leave communist countries alone, eventually the people will revolt due to poverty or lack of rights.

[The_Giver]

He's just another idiotic communist thug. If not for the oil their economy would be in trouble. Still, there's no point for the U.S. to intervene. If you just leave communist countries alone, eventually the people will revolt due to poverty or lack of rights.

How much exactly have you researched Chavez besides what you are being fed by your tube? Seriously, all Americans really know is that he doesn't really advance our personal interest.

Just in case you didn't know.... people in Venezula did revolt... a lot of the lower class actually... but guess what? They revolted when Chavez was removed by a coup in order to bring him back. Most people there love him right now.... the only people I see hating him are the upper class there (a small group mind you) and misinformed Americans.

[9sublime]

How much exactly have you researched Chavez besides what you are being fed by your tube? Seriously, all Americans really know is that he doesn't really advance our personal interest.

Just in case you didn't know.... people in Venezula did revolt... a lot of the lower class actually... but guess what? They revolted when Chavez was removed by a coup in order to bring him back. Most people there love him right now.... the only people I see hating him are the upper class there (a small group mind you) and misinformed Americans.

Great post.

In America you must get fed the absoloute dirt on Chavez, and anything good ignored or twisted to make it bad. He's made some great moves for his country and against America and you don't like it.

[God]

I concur, Chavez is one of my favorite children.

He even turned down Monsanto: an evil corporation that refuses to worship me and instead screws over farmers by selling them patented seeds that have genes I created (yes, they have been able to patent naturally occuring genes just in case you didn't catch that).

[Truth-Bringer]

How much exactly have you researched Chavez besides what you are being fed by your tube? Seriously, all Americans really know is that he doesn't really advance our personal interest.

I don't care about American interests. What I know about him is that he's a fervent collectivist and claims to be a communist, does he not? That's enough for me to realize he's an idiot. I realize you're probably a communist sympathizer and you actually believe that what he's doing is "for the poor" - LOL - but you're the one buying propaganda, not me.


Just in case you didn't know.... people in Venezula did revolt... a lot of the lower class actually... but guess what? They revolted when Chavez was removed by a coup in order to bring him back. Most people there love him right now....

At one time, most people thought the world was flat. Were they right? There are a lot of ignorant, uninformed people in the world. I imagine if you could rate Chavez's support based on IQ, the dumbest people in the country would love him the most.

the only people I see hating him are the upper class there (a small group mind you)

Imagine that, the business owners and those creating the jobs don't like having their property stolen by this thug... Can't believe it...

You leftists are funny.

[9sublime]

You leftists are funny.

I'm not quite sure on where you stand, but from what I've heard so far I'd say the feeling is mutual about you, but I'm not going to generalise you with everyone else you associate yourself with.

[God]

I don't care about American interests. What I know about him is that he's a fervent collectivist and claims to be a communist, does he not? That's enough for me to realize he's an idiot. I realize you're probably a communist sympathizer and you actually believe that what he's doing is "for the poor" - LOL - but you're the one buying propaganda, not me.



At one time, most people thought the world was flat. Were they right? There are a lot of ignorant, uninformed people in the world. I imagine if you could rate Chavez's support based on IQ, the dumbest people in the country would love him the most.



Imagine that, the business owners and those creating the jobs don't like having their property stolen by this thug... Can't believe it...

You leftists are funny.

Time for God to get serious.

First of all, your entire post is made up of generazliations backed with no facts. You clearly show to know nothing about Chavez but what is provided to you by the American media.

What does IQ have to do with anything? You do know the person with the highest IQ is an asshole bartender who thinks he is superior to everyone else right? IQ is not a real measure of intelligence, please reconsider your entire sense of reality if you think it is.

The rich in a country like Venezuela are the worse. They just get old wealth and there is virtually no way to rise up, now Chavez is redistributing wealth like the USA should have redistributed wealth right after slavery was abolished. If you wait too long it seems unfair.

[9sublime]

I've changed my mind on you God. Although I'm not a believer.

[Dave]

Chavez has paved the way for conspiracy theorists by his psychotic rants that George W. Bush is personally trying to kill him. I can gaurantee you that if he has a heart attack in a few months there will be tons of people blaming the U.S. government.

Aside from having severe dilusions, he has done very little to help Venezuela as a whole. Those with money enough to leave have already done so. There is no wealth left to distrubute except for the industries Chavez has stolen, oh wait, nationalized.

[9sublime]

I'm not one for conspiracy theories, they are generally hilarious, but if you are the leader of a country going againt America, a nation who has

supported coups all over the world,

a thirst for oil

a hatred of communism

a track record of messy wars

you can't blame Chavez for expecting America to get him out of power violently.

[Dave]

I'm not one for conspiracy theories, they are generally hilarious, but if you are the leader of a country going againt America, a nation who has

supported coups all over the world,

a thirst for oil

a hatred of communism

a track record of messy wars

you can't blame Chavez for expecting America to get him out of power violently.

Does the President of China fear assassination? No. China holds a lot more leverage over America than Venezuela ever could. America has every reason to want regime change in China, from the freedom of Taiwan, to China's leverage over the U.S. dollar, but nobody is speculating that the U.S. will kill Hu Jintao. That's because Hu Jintao is not an a psychotic madman like Hugo Chavez is. When you flatly come out and say "if I die, it is because I was killed by America" it simply shows his paranoid delusions.

[Truth-Bringer]

I'm not quite sure on where you stand, but from what I've heard so far I'd say the feeling is mutual about you, but I'm not going to generalise you with everyone else you associate yourself with.

Do you like the Communist Chavez or not? Simple question. Do you like his policy of stealing property from other people or not? Again, a simple question.

I'm not trying to generalize anybody. I just can't get you guys to give me a straight answer on this. Wonder why?... ;)

[Truth-Bringer]

Time for God to get serious.

Surely you're joking... Which troll are you by the way? Is this madhur? I noticed you appeared after Fonz appeared so I assume Rokerijdude posted a link on Speak Free America and so now you've come to spread your idiocy here.


First of all, your entire post is made up of generazliations backed with no facts. You clearly show to know nothing about Chavez but what is provided to you by the American media.

Well, then by all means, why don't you provide some facts from an unbiased source and show Chavez's specific policies? Why all the obfuscation?

What I know has been reported by the media - and not just the American media - that the man seizes and steals private property in the name of the government, at gunpoint if necessary. He is a thief and a thug who uses force to achieve his political goals. He is no one to be admired.


What does IQ have to do with anything?

According to some scholars, it can have quite a bit to do with things.

You do know the person with the highest IQ is an asshole bartender who thinks he is superior to everyone else right?

I never implied a high IQ makes one infallible...

IQ is not a real measure of intelligence, please reconsider your entire sense of reality if you think it is.

Please stop with the Straw Men. I never claimed IQ was the sole decider of anything. But there are political trends that can be measured. For example - academics, children, the uneducated and single women tend to favor collectivism. High level academics probably don't have low IQ's - but they are isolated from the "real world" and many have no experience in the private sector - to actually have to produce results in an economy.


The rich in a country like Venezuela are the worse. They just get old wealth and there is virtually no way to rise up,

But you guys hate the rich in every country. Even in countries where one can "rise up." It's you collectivists that have made it harder to rise up. Without the income tax and without the inflation of fiat currency, the poor were more able to rise from poverty, as many had done in America. Now, it's much harder for people to rise up as they can't save as much due to taxes and inflation.

now Chavez is redistributing wealth like the USA should have redistributed wealth right after slavery was abolished. If you wait too long it seems unfair.

LOL. No one has a right to redistribute anything by force, you little thief. Stop worrying about other people and work to improve your own life.

[9sublime]

Yeah, I do like Chavez, I think he may not be perfect at any rate, but its a start from the more opressive rulers in South America and anything that hacks of Americas government and does a bit more for freedom against them is good.

Theres a pretty straight answer for you, and I don't think I've given you any politician answers in the past.

[Truth-Bringer]

Yeah, I do like Chavez,

So you like Communism also. You would prefer our economic system be more like Chavez's, correct?

[9sublime]

No, I said I like Chavez, I never said I liked communism. I think that people could benefit from some of the ways Chavez works, but not all of them. For example, he gives out cheap oil to your nations poorest, while your government leaves New Orleans to rot.

[God]

There is no use in arguing with someone who has only lived in the USA and has never experienced anything else... and is stubbornly adhering to their bliefs... beliefs as in purely non-factual.

[vyo476]

There is no use in arguing with someone who has only lived in the USA and has never experienced anything else... and is stubbornly adhering to their bliefs... beliefs as in purely non-factual.

I'm sure that all that irony was intentional, "God."

[Truth-Bringer]

There is no use in arguing with someone who has only lived in the USA and has never experienced anything else...

"God" is wrong. Thanks for proving you're an imperfect being.

[Truth-Bringer]

No, I said I like Chavez, I never said I liked communism.

That's like saying you like Hitler but you can't stand Nazis - doesn't make a whole lot of sense...

I think that people could benefit from some of the ways Chavez works, but not all of them. For example, he gives out cheap oil to your nations poorest, while your government leaves New Orleans to rot.

People have to take responsibility for their own lives. It's not the government's purpose to take care of people like a parent. If you live below sea level in a high risk area, then you must either be prepared or suffer the consequences. That city and state have been controlled by liberal politicians for a very long time. Why weren't they ready? Is it perhaps because the government leaders in the area weren't prepared themselves???

[9sublime]

That's like saying you like Hitler but you can't stand Nazis - doesn't make a whole lot of sense...



No, I'm saying I think Chavez has got some balls and some good intentions, and hes pissing off America. Most people who piss off America without killing their innocent citizens generally go in my good book.

Did you know that I am pretty libertarian myself? It's just from your posts you seem to be at the other end of the spectrum from me on left/right wing. Although I'd never really related it to myself until recently, me and you do share something in common. Just thought I would share that.

[Truth-Bringer]

No, I'm saying I think Chavez has got some balls and some good intentions, and hes pissing off America. Most people who piss off America without killing their innocent citizens generally go in my good book.

Ok, so you just like the way Chavez is standing up to the U.S. Well, I totally disagree with U.S. foreign policy, but I still wouldn't want to side with Chavez on the matter. I just don't like collectivism or communism, and I can't support leaders who rule via those policies.

But he is right that the U.S. should leave the rest of the world alone. However, a lot of other people are right about that also. The American Congressman Ron Paul for one:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul375.html

http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul373.html

http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul382.html




Did you know that I am pretty libertarian myself? It's just from your posts you seem to be at the other end of the spectrum from me on left/right wing. Although I'd never really related it to myself until recently, me and you do share something in common. Just thought I would share that.

Libertarianism isn't really right or left though. There is a top and bottom to the political spectrum - with libertarians at the top sharing both characteristics with some conservatives and some liberals. A true Libertarian believes that all people should have the liberty to do any peaceful, honest, voluntary transaction or activity. The only time the government steps in is when a person (or persons) uses force, fraud, or coercion against another person (or persons) to deprive them of rights.

[9sublime]

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/05/01/chavez.venezuela.oil.reut/index.html

Excellent.

[mrcoffeecake]

I don't care about American interests. What I know about him is that he's a fervent collectivist and claims to be a communist, does he not? That's enough for me to realize he's an idiot. I realize you're probably a communist sympathizer and you actually believe that what he's doing is "for the poor" - LOL - but you're the one buying propaganda, not me.



At one time, most people thought the world was flat. Were they right? There are a lot of ignorant, uninformed people in the world. I imagine if you could rate Chavez's support based on IQ, the dumbest people in the country would love him the most.



Imagine that, the business owners and those creating the jobs don't like having their property stolen by this thug... Can't believe it...

You leftists are funny.

Bush has destroyed the American dream.
If anyone disagrees with him they are no good..
He'd rather fight against them than fight for us.
His policies have destroyed my thriving small business, which employed
over 35 people and was growing for 10 years. There are thousands like us.
So, if you really believe that bush supports the American way, then your
American way is exxon, mobil, Squibb, Aetna and other conglomerates.
Our 650,000 companies were not on the Dow Jones so we don't matter.
Bush is a facist...we know how well that works out..
As long as the Joe mcCarthy mentality exists amongst his cowboy friends we are less of a nation..
This is sad..rebuild Baghdad and tell New Orleans to go screw..
I donated money to Chavez' campaign!!
This is not my grandfather's America, where we could come here to work,
educate our children and create opportunities.
He has heartlessly allowed outsourcing, cheap illegal labor and permits business to desecrate our environment..
at least Chavez has a heart..AND a brain..
More refineries mean lower gas prices and more opportunity..
Anyone who believes otherwise is a sad stooge for the rich, selfish and evil oil executives..
We deserve better!

[9sublime]

the fact is truth bringer, YOU are the one buying the propaganda. He IS helping the poor, but because he is taking on America the propaganda you are recieving through Fox News or CNN is going to be what gun weilding flagaphiles want to hear.

I thought Fox News was the most hilarious thing I've ever seen. Thank **** for Channel 4 and the BBC news.

[mrcoffeecake]

Just because YOU and the simple minded opposition labels him a communist
does not make it so..Just because you accept labels and expect anyone who says anything negative about Bush does not make them a "liberal"..
The rest of the caring world is tired of being labeled and written off by people who would prefer to call names rather than solve the problem. That is childish, unproductive and actually un-American..This country was founded on debate and compromise, none of which Bush can even spell...We are in a sad state, so if you're not going to help us, at least get out of the way..
FACT: Building more refineries, as Chavez is trying to do, willl lower the cost of oil and help working people and all economies...
Fact: This does not help Bush and his BILLIONAIRE friends.
FAct: Those who support Bush's energy and foreign policy against Chavez are on the bad guys' side..They have been duped!
Did you actually believe that the grounding of one oil tanker in 1991 was capable of raising ALL oil price WORLDWIDE for 2 years??
Please stop buying in to the name calling and spend some time looking at the problems at hand and the facts that involve them. Once you can stop being
so emotionally duped you can begin to help us move forward.

[vyo476]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070501/ap_on_el_pr/giuliani_chavez

[9sublime]

I think its fantastic that the bloke slating Chavez is a man "whose law firm represents an American subsidiary of a Hugo Chavez-controlled oil company."
That alone makes most of this propaganda fed straight from Bush and Co.



"Who would listen to Chavez if he didn't have all this oil money? Nobody would listen to him," Giuliani said.

I think you have more than one export from South America.


He said Chavez's social programs and those of Cuban leader Fidel Castro "keep people in poverty" and "keep people dependent."

Apart from the fact this statement isn't true, the fact that you buy goods of the people of developing and industrialisating nations at dirt cheap prices keeps their economy down.

And maybe this Presidential Candidate should focus on helping those in poverty in his nation before attacking others for their country when they have a government that has clearly improved things in Venezuala since Chavez came to power. Just not in favour of America.

"I feel perfect freedom to point out that Hugo Chavez is a person who's acting against the interests of the United States. He's someone where we'd be in a much better position if we could cut him off. If we could say we don't want or need Venezuelan oil," Giuliani told reporters after the speech. "I don't think there's anyone that's more outspoken about how dangerous I think he is."

Yeah, we know that you don't like Chavez, so what are you going to do? Claim there are some weapons of mass destruction in there, or just use the CIA to get a regime change?

And we all know you need Venezuala's oil as things stand, and there doesn't seem to be a huge reneweable energy scheme in the pipeline to swing things back into Americas favour.

[Rafael Norma]

The U. S. is helping this tyrant by purchasing him oil.

You should think about it.