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64 years ago today

Discussion in 'U.S. Politics' started by Little-Acorn, Jul 16, 2009.

  1. Little-Acorn

    Little-Acorn Well-Known Member

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    64 years ago today, on July 16, 1945, the first atomic explosion on earth was triggered at the Trinity test site near Alamagordo, New Mexico. A plutonium implosion bomb created an explosion equivalent to 20,000 tons of TNT.

    Three weeks later, a uranium slug-gun bomb was dropped on Hiroshima, Japan, killing more than 60,000 people. Three days after that, another plutonium implosion bomb was flown over it primary target of Kokura, Japan. But the weather over the target was poor, so the plane diverted to its assigned alternate target of Nagasaki, Japan, and dropped the bomb there, where more than 40,000 people died.

    Japan surrendered a week later, cancelling the planned U.S. invasion and conquest of the Japanese mainland and averting a projected 500,000+ U.S. casualties.
     
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  2. PLC1

    PLC1 Moderator Staff Member

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    And so a quick end was put to WWII, thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands more lives were saved than were lost, and the world was never the same again.

    Now, the nuclear genie has been out of its bottle for sixty four years, and mankind has not as yet destroyed modern civilization with it. In fact, it could be argued that having nuclear weapons in the world has actually prevented wars, as each enemy was afraid of the others' nuclear potential.

    So, are nuclear weapons a net positive, or a net negative?

    and, how is it that most of us ignore such a momentous turn in human history? Surely, this is bigger even that Michael Jackson.

    (Yes, kiddies, that was that nasty old sarcasm again, and I'm not even going to apologize for it.)
     
  3. pocketfullofshells

    pocketfullofshells Well-Known Member

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    land of 10,000 lakes and 2 senators again
    and it was Obama's fault!
     
  4. GenSeneca

    GenSeneca Well-Known Member

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    OMG, Obama killed Micheal Jackson!? :eek:
     
  5. Popeye

    Popeye Active Member

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    Don't you mean American or Allied lives, saved by killing thousands and thousands of Japanese civilians? Anyway, I know we've been fed that nuking Japan saved lives line from the time we're taught about WW II in school....I'm not so sure I buy it, I mean we'll never really know and it appears to be an attempt to defend what to me is an immoral act.
     
  6. Andy

    Andy Well-Known Member

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    I suppose having millions more deaths in a long drawn out invasion of Japan, which would have likely destroyed most of the country, would be the "moral" way to do it.

    Leftist bigots using the word "moral" is always amusing.

    So why do we assume that the invasion of Japan would have been a horrific slaughter, as opposed to two nuclear bombs? Couple of reasons.

    First our internal estimates concluded that we would lose roughly a 1.7 to 4 million troops, and tens of millions in Japanese troops during the invasion of the Japanese mainland.

    Our External estimates by people outside the government suggested that we would lose from 500 thousand to a million.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Downfall#Estimated_casualties

    Most of this was based on the amazing determination of the Japanese troops on even the smallest, and least important islands around Japan, such as the Battle of Okinawa, on the Ryukyu Islands.

    The allies lost roughly 50K troops, while Japan lost 110K troops, plus there was an additional 45K to 150K civilian deaths, in only 82 days of fighting. At best one could assume that on this one island of only 460 sq. miles, there were over 260 thousands deaths.

    Japanese soldiers were relentless. They had no problem flying planes into ships, or running into the enemy with a live grenade in hand. In caves and tunnels, soldiers would shoot at the enemy. The only way to get them out was to burn them out with flame throwers, and sometimes that wasn't enough. Even Japanese women attacked American troops, some armed only with spears.

    The final battle at Okinawa involved only 30K Japanese regulars, 9K Naval Japanese troops, and over a thousand militia, Japanese peasants.

    Despite being cut off, poorly armed, lacking supplies, and surrounded, they fought to the better end, even as their commanding officers committed suicide rather than be caught.

    So, by all standards there was ample evidence for believing invading Japan would be a blood bath.
     
  7. Pidgey

    Pidgey Well-Known Member

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    Think so, huh? Most folks don't have any earthly idea that even J. Robert Oppenheimer himself didn't actually believe that. You see, Oppenheimer could read Sanskrit fluently and had studied the Vedas. When asked if the atomic explosion at the Trinity test site had been the first such detonation, Oppenheimer replied, "Yes, in modern times."
     
  8. Mr. Shaman

    Mr. Shaman New Member

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    ....As-well-as the "enemies"-neighbors.

    After seeing what happened to Iraq, does anyone wonder why Iran wouldn't want nukes???

    :confused:

    Here're a couple-more:

    1927: Augusto Sandino begins 5-year war against U.S. occupation of Nicaragua.

    1973: During Watergate hearings, Alexander Butterfield reveals existence of tapes. ​
     
  9. Mr. Shaman

    Mr. Shaman New Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  10. Mr. Shaman

    Mr. Shaman New Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  11. Mr. Shaman

    Mr. Shaman New Member

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    ....AFTER-which we'd redefined terrorism.​
     
  12. Mr. Shaman

    Mr. Shaman New Member

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    Yeah...the Chickenhawk-Version of warfare is so-much-more "manly".

    :rolleyes:

    If there was a long drawn out invasion of Japan....and, everyone was "armed" with baseball-bats....maybe (after a few photos, of that), people would be less-inclined to declare War.

    Hell....that oughta be the new-definition of War, anyhow!

    You take all willing-participants (of whichever groups/nations who want to go-to-War)...create two-teams (for whichever dispute)....drop them on the planet's "War Island" (fully-equipped with the latest broadcast-technology)....arm both-sides with baseball-bats....and FIRE THE STARTING-GUN!!

    The last man/team standing wins that War.....after-which, all carnage is scooped-up....and, the next two-teams start prepping!

    The End-Result??

    1. Everyone who wants to kill, gets to do so.

    2. Everyone who insists War is the ONLY-option....but, never wants to get their hands "messy"....can watch it on Pay-Per-View.

    3. People who have no NEED for such madness can ignore it.​
     
  13. Little-Acorn

    Little-Acorn Well-Known Member

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    Has Mr. ShamMan made any posts in this forum yet, that actually make sense, and/or that contribute anything useful to the subject of the thread?

    :rolleyes:
     
  14. GenSeneca

    GenSeneca Well-Known Member

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    He's Canadian....

     
  15. Mr. Shaman

    Mr. Shaman New Member

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    What....you expected someone to congratulate you on such a fine-effort at cuttin'-'n-pastin' a partial-article (by someone else)?

    Gee....Well Done!!

    :rolleyes:
     
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