1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Discuss politics - join our community by registering for free here! HOP - the political discussion forum

825 billion dollars in new borrowing and spending

Discussion in 'U.S. Politics' started by PLC1, Jan 16, 2009.

  1. PLC1

    PLC1 Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2007
    Messages:
    9,924
    Likes Received:
    492
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    The Golden State
    This is downright scary:

    Senate Releases Second Portion of Bailout Fund

    But, haven't the Republicans been trying to borrow and spend our way to prosperity for years already?

    If the economy really turns around, and the government is actually able to make up for that $825 billion dollar spending spree, then great. If not, then we'll be in a deep recession, with a national debt approaching $12 trillion, or over $36,000 for every citizen of this late great nation of ours.

    Does the federal government really know what it is doing this time around? What do you think?
     
  2. HankHill

    HankHill New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2009
    Messages:
    293
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    With your mom
    The government is just "trying" things out and hoping they work. In the midst of them "trying" things out, they are lining their pockets with the very green they propose to produce.

    Oh, and they're also shoving in as many pet projects they couldn't get through during the Clinton and Bush years.
     
  3. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2008
    Messages:
    2,681
    Likes Received:
    327
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    South of the Haggis Munching Line
    Its a better option than doing the usual entranchment and opting for protectionist policies though surely!
     
  4. Andy

    Andy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2008
    Messages:
    3,497
    Likes Received:
    59
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Which should tell you it won't work.

    The democrats are going to do everything the republicans have done wrong, only ten times worse, and with a "we won the election" arrogance. Pride before a fall... get ready for a hard fall.
     
  5. Andy

    Andy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2008
    Messages:
    3,497
    Likes Received:
    59
    Trophy Points:
    48
    What? How? After the big down turn in the great depression, things started to recover, when FDR went on a spending spree, and enacted tons of government programs and crap. The result was our economy took a nose dive, and we spent many more years in the depression.

    This is not a better option. If the bailout showed anything, it's that it didn't work. We should change direction, and move more towards capitalism, and less towards socialism which always fails.
     
  6. LogicalMind

    LogicalMind New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2009
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Home
    LONG LIVE THE DEMOCRAT WAY

    LETS THROW MONEY AT EVERYTHING AND HOPE IT FIXES IT SELF

    lets stop throwing money we don't have...get a flat tax so that everyone is paying the same percent of there income. and tax all the major business more and not the consumer. put a fence between us and Mexico so that we can our jobs and money in American hands and stop illegal immigrants from working and earning money with out paying taxes on it as well as getting free benefits

    -LogicalMind
     
  7. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2008
    Messages:
    2,681
    Likes Received:
    327
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    South of the Haggis Munching Line
    Demand promotes supply - supply promotes production - production promotes employment.

    Keynes is interesting but not the be all and end all of econiomic theory.
     
  8. Andy

    Andy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2008
    Messages:
    3,497
    Likes Received:
    59
    Trophy Points:
    48
    I must be missing something....

    Most of these projects and government programs do not create any demand. Thus no supply or production.

    In effect, most just toss money into a sink hole. For example, if I receive government funds for free, I have no need to produce anything. I am consuming, but not producing.

    Thus I become nothing but a burden on those that are producing. This doesn't create wealth, but instead destroys it.
     
  9. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2008
    Messages:
    2,681
    Likes Received:
    327
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    South of the Haggis Munching Line
    .............probably
     
  10. Andy

    Andy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2008
    Messages:
    3,497
    Likes Received:
    59
    Trophy Points:
    48
    That's not an answer to my point. I take you agree then?
     
  11. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2008
    Messages:
    2,681
    Likes Received:
    327
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    South of the Haggis Munching Line
    well......no not really.........look I think you're coming from it at the wrong angle. I know that there's this great hangup about "soclialism" and all that bollox in the US but this is more to do with trying to deal with an economy where not only is economic activity stumbling but there is no liquidity in the system in order to lubricate the potential for economic activity.
     
  12. Andy

    Andy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2008
    Messages:
    3,497
    Likes Received:
    59
    Trophy Points:
    48
    On what basis do you claim this? I have a friend who just bought a house. Clearly he had liquidity. My company is purchasing material and selling product. Clearly they have liquidity. I can't think of anywhere in which there isn't liquidity. Even GM and Chrysler don't have a problem selling their cars, just a problem making money on them because their labor costs are too high.

    I don't see evidence of this claim you have.
     
  13. PLC1

    PLC1 Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2007
    Messages:
    9,924
    Likes Received:
    492
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    The Golden State
    GM cuts sales forecast, may need more help

    New home sales: Biggest drop ever

    Sure, some people have "liquidity". Unfortunately, a lot of people and businesses don't.

    GM is having trouble selling its cars for a variety of reasons:

    People don't have money.
    People are holding on to the money that they do have.
    Toyota and Honda make better cars, and even they are losing sales.

    People who bought houses after the bubble burst are OK. People who bought them a year or so ago have lost tens, and in some cases hundreds, of thousands of dollars.

    I'm glad to hear your company is purchasing material and selling product. As long as it is able to sell product, it will be able to purchase material, and stay in business. It will help keep the material suppliers in business as well. The problem for many business is that they are not selling product, at least not as much as they used to, so they and their suppliers are going out of business, and laying people off, thus ensuring that those still in business will have a harder time selling products.

    That's how a recession works. It is a viscous circle. Whether or not the circle can be broken by a combination of tax cuts and spending programs is highly debatable.
     
  14. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2008
    Messages:
    2,681
    Likes Received:
    327
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    South of the Haggis Munching Line
    Bear Stearns
    Lehamn Brothers
    AIG
    Bank of America
    numerous Icelandic Banks
    numerous UK Banks
    numerous European Banks


    Whats the Fed rate at the moment.....pretty low
    UK official rate lowest ever

    ........ do I go on!
     
  15. Andy

    Andy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2008
    Messages:
    3,497
    Likes Received:
    59
    Trophy Points:
    48
    I understand all this. What I'm having a problem with is how does a government program fix this?

    It's never fixed it before. Why would it do so now?

    Obviously we have pulled out of recession before without the need of government programs. Further, we've had government programs that have caused recessions. So the claim there is no liquidity, and thus a need for government programs, seems dubious to me.
     
Loading...

Share This Page