89% of muslims voted obama

[Bunz]

That's ANOTHER can of worms. Jewish people by and large have the liberal outlook.

Then why is thier support of Obama such a surprise?

But I've been trying to find out from jews why obama got their support. It's as if they've given up on israel, which is now in great danger.

Should we add dillusions to the list of symptoms of Obamaparanoiafixation?

Think of it: the one country that has been their steadfast friend,
while euros and russians armed the arabs to the teeth, is now run by an appeaser whose attitude toward them probably ranges from indifference to hostility. This at the same time a big new soon to be nuclear enemy is arising in the middle east to replace their former enemy iraq.

Libsmasher, I have asked before, should we make pre-emptive military action against Iran? Maybe answer this time.

The fact of the matter is that Obama will continue the long standing policies America has maintained towards Israel. Considering he already has Biden, and Emmanuel on board in the cabinet, and much to your frustration Warren Christopher, all of which have been very supportive of Israel.

 

[Libsmasher]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Libsmasher
That's ANOTHER can of worms. Jewish people by and large have the liberal outlook.

Then why is thier support of Obama such a surprise?

Uh, you had to read the next sentence ....

Quote:
But I've been trying to find out from jews why obama got their support. It's as if they've given up on israel, which is now in great danger.

Should we add dillusions to the list of symptoms of Obamaparanoiafixation?

Oh - you're a moderator and you're calling people paranoid?? Come back when you want a real debate on the issue.

Quote:

Think of it: the one country that has been their steadfast friend,
while euros and russians armed the arabs to the teeth, is now run by an appeaser whose attitude toward them probably ranges from indifference to hostility. This at the same time a big new soon to be nuclear enemy is arising in the middle east to replace their former enemy iraq.

Libsmasher, I have asked before, should we make pre-emptive military action against Iran? Maybe answer this time.

I ALREADY answered this - here it is again: Israel with US support should (and will) attack their nuke installations when they get close. Register that time?

The fact of the matter is that Obama will continue the long standing policies America has maintained towards Israel. Considering he already has Biden, and Emmanuel on board in the cabinet, and much to your frustration Warren Christopher, all of which have been very supportive of Israel.

What a howler! Christopher was on board the Jimmy Carter administration when it bungled support to the shah and ended up with the first islamofascist state, just one of the Carter foreign policy disasters. As for Biden, he was in on the Carter egypt-israeli peace treaty, which ended with president sadat of egypt being assassinated, and gave birth to the roots of the alqaeda movement in egypt. Yaaaaa great team!

Also read Ed Laskey article from last january. Contains info and more links of facts that should scare any israel supporter:

Now that Obama has become a leading Presidential candidate, he has assembled a body of foreign policy advisers who signal that a President Obama would likely have an approach towards Israel radically at odds with those of previous Presidents (both Republican and Democrat). A group of experts collected by the Israeli liberal newspaper Haaretz deemed him to be the candidate likely to be least supportive of Israel. He is the candidate most favored by the Arab-American community.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/01/barack_obama_and_israel.html

 

[oceanenvy]

For one muslims whole heartedly support the person whom they know will completely defang the country they see as the enemy of their world, the muslim world. The muslims I've encountered, citizens or not, see the US as an address, and a place to make money, nothing more - their loyalties lie elsewhere.

My Muslim friends do not view the US this way. They are just as entrenched in the customs and freedoms this country represents as much as any other ethnic group I've encountered.

 

[Unite Our Nation]

I have to ditto ocean. The muslims I know show an appreciation for this country and its freedoms not seen by most American born citizens.

There is a particular friend who came here from Iran some 20 years ago, and he is very much an advocate of freedom and capitalism.

 

[oceanenvy]

That's ANOTHER can of worms. Jewish people by and large have the liberal outlook. But I've been trying to find out from jews why obama got their support. It's as if they've given up on israel, which is now in great danger. Think of it: the one country that has been their steadfast friend, while euros and russians armed the arabs to the teeth, is now run by an appeaser whose attitude toward them probably ranges from indifference to hostility. This at the same time a big new soon to be nuclear enemy is arising in the middle east to replace their former enemy iraq.

Bottom line: Most Jewish people I know (including me and my family) felt that Obama represents our values and priorities way more than Mccain did. Israel is of course an important issue to us, but when push came to shove, people believed that our last 8 years of American foreign policy positions posed a huge threat to Israel. Meaningful change has always been brought about by both military strength AND diplomatic efforts and the latter has been sorely lacking in this past administration. This "last-ditch" effort by the administration for a Palestinian-Israeli peace treaty is just completely laughable.

Jewish people are also in general not a one-issue kind of people, so it is more of alignment with the values that Obama represents to me that influenced my decision and that of most of my family.

Finally, based on feedback, I think Mccain's choice of Palin did not go over too well with Jewish people. I think this was because with her, the line between religion and government seemed a little blurry (i.e. her view on Creationism, abstinence-only education, being vehemently anti-choice.) This generally doesn't go over well with Jewish people as a whole.

 

[Unite Our Nation]

Ocean, I like you. I enjoy reading your well thoughtout posts. While I am not Jewish, I have two close friends who are. They voted for McCain and were very unhappy with their Jewish friends who voted obama. We discussed the reasons and I can't say as I understand it. He/they pointed the reason to Jewish people "not wanting to look racist". I found that an interesting perspective. Keep in mind, that the two friends of mine are very connected in the Jewish Community and in different states.

What do you think of their assertion?

May I ask what "values" you are speaking of with obama? That is my main reason for being so against him. I see no voting history of any moral values.

BTW, I totally agree with you on Palin. She does blur the lines too much. I feel that her strong value of anti-choice is THE reason so many turned against her...and therefore McCain. You get the impression that she is not open to discussion on this issue...which I believe to be a personal choice.

 

[oceanenvy]

Ocean, I like you. I enjoy reading your well thoughtout posts. While I am not Jewish, I have two close friends who are. They voted for McCain and were very unhappy with their Jewish friends who voted obama. We discussed the reasons and I can't say as I understand it. He/they pointed the reason to Jewish people "not wanting to look racist". I found that an interesting perspective. Keep in mind, that the two friends of mine are very connected in the Jewish Community and in different states.

What do you think of their assertion?

May I ask what "values" you are speaking of with obama? That is my main reason for being so against him. I see no voting history of any moral values.

BTW, I totally agree with you on Palin. She does blur the lines too much. I feel that her strong value of anti-choice is THE reason so many turned against her...and therefore McCain. You get the impression that she is not open to discussion on this issue...which I believe to be a personal choice.

I know we disagree a lot, but I thank you for the respect.

Here's how I see it. Note: These opinions are mine, and I don't claim that the The Jewish people speak in one voice. That would be silly and stereotypic. Like many other groups, there is room for discussion and dissent. There is an old Yiddish saying which states that if you put 20 Jews in a room, you will have 25 opinions. I think this is accurate.

When I speak of "values" , I speak of issues that resonate with me and my family, such as caring for the poor, providing adequate health care for children, caring for the environment, separation of church and state, focus on education, and supporting the middle class. These are fundamental issues to me. I'm not a hugely religious person, but these were the values taught to me as a child, and I continue to value them as an adult. On balance, I have much more alignment with Obama than Mccain on these issues.

 

[Unite Our Nation]

"There is an old Yiddish saying which states that if you put 20 Jews in a room, you will have 25 opinions. I think this is accurate"

I've heard this before, but it always makes me laugh outloud!!

The values you listed were "spoken" by obama. His voting record does not back nearly all that was spoken. We will see.

How do you reconcile the votes by obama to not give babies medical help, who were born alive during an abortion? What about the true murder with partial birth abortion? This is bringing a child into the world and then killing them. These babies are viable outside of the womb. Yet you talk of healthcare for children. It doesn't foot.

Specifically what did you back about obama on education?

Have you seen the information that came out yesterday that proves the earth has been cooling for the last ten years? Our warmest year was 1934. False data was given to NASA. They took their information off their website yesterday. I have't checked today.

Separation of church and state is important to me too and a lot of Republicans back it and in fact, laws are already in place to assure it. So exactly what do you mean? What did obama add to this issue?

Thank you for the great discussion!!

 

[oceanenvy]

"There is an old Yiddish saying which states that if you put 20 Jews in a room, you will have 25 opinions. I think this is accurate"

I've heard this before, but it always makes me laugh outloud!!

The values you listed were "spoken" by obama. His voting record does not back nearly all that was spoken. We will see.

How do you reconcile the votes by obama to not give babies medical help, who were born alive during an abortion? What about the true murder with partial birth abortion? This is bringing a child into the world and then killing them. These babies are viable outside of the womb. Yet you talk of healthcare for children. It doesn't foot.

"


Specifically what did you back about obama on education? B]

Have you seen the information that came out yesterday that proves the earth has been cooling for the last ten years? Our warmest year was 1934. False data was given to NASA. They took their information off their website yesterday. I have't checked today.




I do believe that there are situations whereby babies are born alive pre-viabiliy, but believe it is a rare event and that that almost all would not even survive medical intervention. That is what I have seen from most all actual medical sites. The bill would have forced life-support on any fetus born with a viable heartbeat. Here is Obama's reply when asked about this issue, and I think his reasoning is very accurate. I do believe that this issue was distorted in the media, especially by those anti-choice groups who want political leverage.

[U]Obama's REPLY:[/U] The other email rumor that's been floating around is that somehow I'm unwilling to see doctors offer life-saving care to children who were born as a result of an induced abortion. That's just false. There was a bill that came up in Illinois that was called the "Born Alive" bill that purported to require life-saving treatment to such infants. And I did vote against that bill. The reason was that there was already a law in place in Illinois that stated you always have to supply life-saving treatment to any infant under any circumstances, and this bill actually was designed to overturn Roe v. Wade, so I didn't think it was going to pass constitutional muster.
Ever since that time, emails have been sent out suggesting that, somehow, I would be in favor of letting an infant die in a hospital because of this particular vote. That's not a fair characterization, and that's not an honest characterization. It defies common sense to think that a hospital wouldn't provide life-saving treatment to an infant that was alive and had a chance of survival.



This is what appeals to me in Obama's Plan. (below) I really think the "No Child left behind Act" has not been properly funded nor enforced. It needs to be reformed. Here is what he is proposing:

Barack Obama will reform No Child Left Behind:
Obama and Biden believe teachers should not be forced to spend the academic year preparing students to fill in bubbles on standardized tests and he will improve the assessments used to track student progress to measure readiness for college.
Invest in early childhood education:
The Obama-Biden comprehensive "Zero to Five" plan will provide critical support to young children and their parents. And they will help states move toward voluntary, universal pre-school.
Make college affordable to all Americans:
Obama and Biden will create a new American Opportunity Tax Credit worth $4,000 in exchange for community service. It will cover two-thirds the cost of tuition at the average public college or university and make community college tuition completely free for most students.




While I agree that there has been conflicting information re: global warming I think the concensus of MOST scientists is that human beings are having a detrimental impact on our environment. By the way, Mccain believes this too, and the two candidates are not radically different in terms of viewpoints on this issue. B]



There is speculation that due to the ageing of some Supreme Court members, there might be 2-3 replacements chosen in the next 4-8 years. Therefore, these appointments are critical to me. We already have a Court that has become increasingly conservative on certain issues (Roe v. Wade, etc.) and I am concerned that if McCain would choose someone like Palin as a VP choice, his choice for a Supreme Court appointee might lean to far to the right for me on other issues such as Church and State issues (Creationism, etc.) That is where I come from on this. Nomination of Supreme Court justices is huge for me.

You may not agree with me on these issues, but this is where I am coming from.

 

[oceanenvy]

"There is an old Yiddish saying which states that if you put 20 Jews in a room, you will have 25 opinions. I think this is accurate"

I've heard this before, but it always makes me laugh outloud!!

The values you listed were "spoken" by obama. His voting record does not back nearly all that was spoken. We will see.

How do you reconcile the votes by obama to not give babies medical help, who were born alive during an abortion? What about the true murder with partial birth abortion? This is bringing a child into the world and then killing them. These babies are viable outside of the womb. Yet you talk of healthcare for children. It doesn't foot.

"


Specifically what did you back about obama on education? B]

Have you seen the information that came out yesterday that proves the earth has been cooling for the last ten years? Our warmest year was 1934. False data was given to NASA. They took their information off their website yesterday. I have't checked today.




I do believe that there are situations whereby babies are born alive pre-viabiliy, but believe it is a rare event and that that almost all would not even survive medical intervention. That is what I have seen from most all actual medical sites. The bill would have forced life-support on any fetus born with a viable heartbeat. Here is Obama's reply when asked about this issue, and I think his reasoning is very accurate. I do believe that this issue was distorted in the media, especially by those anti-choice groups who want political leverage.

[U]Obama's REPLY:[/U] The other email rumor that's been floating around is that somehow I'm unwilling to see doctors offer life-saving care to children who were born as a result of an induced abortion. That's just false. There was a bill that came up in Illinois that was called the "Born Alive" bill that purported to require life-saving treatment to such infants. And I did vote against that bill. The reason was that there was already a law in place in Illinois that stated you always have to supply life-saving treatment to any infant under any circumstances, and this bill actually was designed to overturn Roe v. Wade, so I didn't think it was going to pass constitutional muster.
Ever since that time, emails have been sent out suggesting that, somehow, I would be in favor of letting an infant die in a hospital because of this particular vote. That's not a fair characterization, and that's not an honest characterization. It defies common sense to think that a hospital wouldn't provide life-saving treatment to an infant that was alive and had a chance of survival.



This is what appeals to me in Obama's Plan. (below) I really think the "No Child left behind Act" has not been properly funded nor enforced. It needs to be reformed. Here is what he is proposing:

Barack Obama will reform No Child Left Behind:
Obama and Biden believe teachers should not be forced to spend the academic year preparing students to fill in bubbles on standardized tests and he will improve the assessments used to track student progress to measure readiness for college.
Invest in early childhood education:
The Obama-Biden comprehensive "Zero to Five" plan will provide critical support to young children and their parents. And they will help states move toward voluntary, universal pre-school.
Make college affordable to all Americans:
Obama and Biden will create a new American Opportunity Tax Credit worth $4,000 in exchange for community service. It will cover two-thirds the cost of tuition at the average public college or university and make community college tuition completely free for most students.




While I agree that there has been conflicting information re: global warming I think the concensus of MOST scientists is that human beings are having a detrimental impact on our environment. By the way, Mccain believes this too, and the two candidates are not radically different in terms of viewpoints on this issue. B]



There is speculation that due to the ageing of some Supreme Court members, there might be 2-3 replacements chosen in the next 4-8 years. Therefore, these appointments are critical to me. We already have a Court that has become increasingly conservative on certain issues (Roe v. Wade, etc.) and I am concerned that if McCain would choose someone like Palin as a VP choice, his choice for a Supreme Court appointee might lean to far to the right for me on other issues such as Church and State issues (Creationism, etc.) That is where I come from on this. Nomination of Supreme Court justices is huge for me.

You may not agree with me on these issues, but this is where I am coming from.

By the way - one more point about health care and children. The Bush administration (and McCain) have consistently voted against expanding WICC, and McCain's plan around health insurance was really abyssmal. $5000per year per family, in addition to being taxed on health care benefits being received would not have worked to ease the burden of health care costs in our country.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

what percent of Muslims voted Democrat overall? That's like saying blacks only voted for Obama because he is black...when the fact is Most blacks vote Dem regardless of who is the ticket.

Also guess what Libs, Muslims are Americans as well, so is it a bad thing if they support Obama over McCain? nope cuz so did Christians , atheist, agnostics....

 

[BigRob]

what percent of Muslims voted Democrat overall? That's like saying blacks only voted for Obama because he is black...when the fact is Most blacks vote Dem regardless of who is the ticket.

Also guess what Libs, Muslims are Americans as well, so is it a bad thing if they support Obama over McCain? nope cuz so did Christians , atheist, agnostics....

I will say this. Typically a large portion of black people simply do not vote. So when you have major turnout in the African-American community, and many of them tell you they turned out to elect the first black president, I think it is a safe assumption that they are voting for Obama because he is black.

On the Muslim issue however, I agree that that really does not matter all that much.

 

[bododie]

The only reason this becomes political is in regards to Sharia law. It isn't law here, but there are already cases where Muslims are using the religion to dictate how and when they actually work at a job. You can find numerous instances online where Muslims have been awarded significant damages by virtue of the fact that their employer did not bow to their religious practices. The majority have been in the last 3 years. Discrimination regarding religion in hiring is forbidden, we all know that. That is how it should be. Why however, does an employer have the responsibility to adjust his business because of religion? That should not be.

Does it stand to reason that people might fear Obama's intentions relative to LAW in this regard because of his background? 89%? I guess the Muslims think so too.

 

[Libsmasher]

My Muslim friends do not view the US this way. They are just as entrenched in the customs and freedoms this country represents as much as any other ethnic group I've encountered.

Putting that aside, the main thrust is foreign policy. Ask your friends questions such as:

- Was 9/11 the US' fault?

- Does israel have a right to exist?

- Does the US have a right to bomb pakistan bases of al qaeda?

etc etc etc

My grandfather, an italian immigrant, bombed italy in a B-25. There was no where his loyalties were.

 

[Libsmasher]

I have to ditto ocean. The muslims I know show an appreciation for this country and its freedoms not seen by most American born citizens.

There is a particular friend who came here from Iran some 20 years ago, and he is very much an advocate of freedom and capitalism.

You need to delve further and ask the quaestions about the middle east.