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"90% of guns in Mexican crimes come from U.S."?? Ummm, try 17 percent.....

Discussion in 'U.S. Politics' started by Little-Acorn, Apr 2, 2009.

  1. Little-Acorn

    Little-Acorn Well-Known Member

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    It's getting to be a well-established pattern. Whenever today's leftist extremists announce some "statistic" that supports their cause, check into it carefully. It usually turns out to be false.

    The leftists have been working for a while on the story that the violence in Mexico is the U.S.'s fault, and that we must start banning guns from our own citizens in order to help Mexico. Of course, they've used every excuse under the sun to ban guns from law-abiding American citizens, and this is just the latest try. It seems to be the "reason behind the push to reinstate the failed "Assault Weapons Ban" - the one that didn't ban any assault weapons and made no difference in crime rates during the ten years it was in place.

    Unsurprisingly, it's not true.

    -------------------------------------------

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/ele...-percent-guns-mexico-fraction-number-claimed/

    The Myth of 90 Percent: Only a Small Fraction of Guns in Mexico Come From U.S.

    While 90 percent of the guns traced to the U.S. actually originated in the United States, the percent traced to the U.S. is only about 17 percent of the total number of guns reaching Mexico.

    By William La Jeunesse and Maxim Lott
    FOXNews.com
    Thursday, April 02, 2009

    EXCLUSIVE: You've heard this shocking "fact" before -- on TV and radio, in newspapers, on the Internet and from the highest politicians in the land: 90 percent of the weapons used to commit crimes in Mexico come from the United States.

    -- Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said it to reporters on a flight to Mexico City.

    -- CBS newsman Bob Schieffer referred to it while interviewing President Obama.

    -- California Sen. Dianne Feinstein said at a Senate hearing: "It is unacceptable to have 90 percent of the guns that are picked up in Mexico and used to shoot judges, police officers and mayors ... come from the United States."

    -- William Hoover, assistant director for field operations at the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, testified in the House of Representatives that "there is more than enough evidence to indicate that over 90 percent of the firearms that have either been recovered in, or interdicted in transport to Mexico, originated from various sources within the United States."

    There's just one problem with the 90 percent "statistic" and it's a big one:

    It's just not true.

    In fact, it's not even close. By all accounts, it's probably around 17 percent.

    What's true, an ATF spokeswoman told FOXNews.com, in a clarification of the statistic used by her own agency's assistant director, "is that over 90 percent of the traced firearms originate from the U.S."

    But a large percentage of the guns recovered in Mexico do not get sent back to the U.S. for tracing, because it is obvious from their markings that they do not come from the U.S.

    "Not every weapon seized in Mexico has a serial number on it that would make it traceable, and the U.S. effort to trace weapons really only extends to weapons that have been in the U.S. market," Matt Allen, special agent of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), told FOX News.

    A Look at the Numbers

    In 2007-2008, according to ATF Special Agent William Newell, Mexico submitted 11,000 guns to the ATF for tracing. Close to 6,000 were successfully traced -- and of those, 90 percent -- 5,114 to be exact, according to testimony in Congress by William Hoover -- were found to have come from the U.S.

    But in those same two years, according to the Mexican government, 29,000 guns were recovered at crime scenes.

    In other words, 68 percent of the guns that were recovered were never submitted for tracing. And when you weed out the roughly 6,000 guns that could not be traced from the remaining 32 percent, it means 83 percent of the guns found at crime scenes in Mexico could not be traced to the U.S.

    So, if not from the U.S., where do they come from? There are a variety of sources:

    -- The Black Market. Mexico is a virtual arms bazaar, with fragmentation grenades from South Korea, AK-47s from China, and shoulder-fired rocket launchers from Spain, Israel and former Soviet bloc manufacturers.


    (Full text of this article can be read at the above URL)
     
  2. Mr. Shaman

    Mr. Shaman New Member

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    (Yaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwnnnnnnnn.....)​

    *

    Sooooooooooooooooooooo.....when's your boy, Porky, expected to come outta-the-closet? :confused:

     
  3. Andy

    Andy Well-Known Member

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    You are still wrong, even when reposting incorrect information.

    We've already covered this. Yes, 95% of the guns sent back to the US from Mexico, can be traced back to the US.

    But Mexico isn't sending us all the weapons recovered. Only about 5,000 of 29,000 guns recovered, have been traced back to the US.

    Now I realize you, being the least reliable source of information on the forum, likely can't do basic math, but take a guess at what percentage 5,000 is of 29,000 weapons recovered?

    Hint: less than 20%.
     
  4. Andy

    Andy Well-Known Member

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    The left is utterly incompetent on this issue for a number of reasons. But one of the biggest, which is amazing that leftists own political views seem to contradict this.

    Why do you think we can reduce gun availability, when it hasn't worked for any other prohibition? Has banning drugs, eliminated all drugs? No. Did banning alcohol, eliminate all moonshine? No. So what the heck is your point in trying to control guns, a constitutional right for every American citizen?
     
  5. Dr.Who

    Dr.Who Well-Known Member

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    That was answered:


    "While 90 percent of the guns traced to the U.S. actually originated in the United States, the percent traced to the U.S. is only about 17 percent of the total number of guns reaching Mexico."

    Which by the way, makes both Shaman and the OP wrong. The actual number of guns coming from the US in Mexico would be 90% of 17% and not 17%.

    But while the Op was technically wrong he got the gist of it right and Shaman just, well I have run out of things to describe what he does.
     
  6. Dr.Who

    Dr.Who Well-Known Member

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    Banning things does not eliminate them but it does reduced the amount of them. So should law abiding citizens ever want to use those guns to oppose a tyranical dictator their would be less around.

    Now why would the left want to take power away from people who would oppose a tyrant?
     
  7. Little-Acorn

    Little-Acorn Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I noticed how hard it is to get cocaine and marijuana in the U.S. these days.

    BTW, the 2nd amendment bans pretty much ALL so-called "gun control" laws - Federal, state, and local.

    Have you noticed any reduction in the number of those laws?
     
  8. Dr.Who

    Dr.Who Well-Known Member

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    I cannot just walk into Walmart and buy cocain - so yes.
    Without the second there would be no legal guns in this country - so yes.
     
  9. Andy

    Andy Well-Known Member

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    No, but I can walk into any high school, any college, any dorm, nearly any night club, and almost any urban ghetto street, and buy as much as I want.

    My problem isn't that I think we should make both illegal, or both legal. But that, the leftist would claim the reason they want to ban guns is to eliminate all murder (which is a joke in itself). But of course they spin right around and claim the reason we shouldn't ban drugs is because banning it doesn't work.

    Why doesn't the same logic apply to the other issue? Well because leftists are mentally deficient idiots, in general, that never think through their positions.

    [​IMG]

    There's only a select few that would be open to considering alternative view points. The rest are like Shaman and Top Gun, that you can beat over the head with facts and evidence until the end of time, but willfully choose to be like that picture.
     
  10. Little-Acorn

    Little-Acorn Well-Known Member

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    I wonder how many of the 17%, are guns that the US sold legally to the Mexican military or other divisions of the Mex government, and which then got stolen or bootlegged out to civilians?

    Imagine. Corruption in the Mexican government?

    Who knew?
     
  11. Dr.Who

    Dr.Who Well-Known Member

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    And I wonder how many of the illegal guns in the U.S. came from Mexico? I would be willing to bet that even in the illegal gun markets more goods move from Mexico to the US than the other way around.

    So even if we sold zero legal guns in the US there would still be a thriving gun trade here. Even if 100% of all guns in the states now disappeared tomorrow more would show up pretty quickly.
     
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