A grim reality

[samsara15]

Medical science can keep people healthy and strong into their early 80s. Past that time, no matter how healhy their lifetstyle, their body beings to wear out and weaken. We need to face up to that reality and learn how to deal with it better, so people's last years can be happier and more satisfying, without having unrealistic hopes for those later years.

I have seen my parents deal with this stage of life, and witnessed how the medical establishment is totally unprepared for the breakdown of the human body that occurs when people get in their 80s, and keeps trying to heal what is un-repairable, at the cost of a lot of money and agonizing pain for their patients.

 

[Pandora]

what do you suggest we do once they turn 80?

 

[samsara15]

Accept the reality that their lifespan is running out, and live their lives accordingly. Try and enjoy those last years as much as possible, instead of futilely and desperately trying to extend those years by denying themselves the joys that life can give them at that age.

How old are your parents? Have you seen what life looks like, past 80, for a lot of people?

 

[Pandora]

Accept the reality that their lifespan is running out, and live their lives accordingly. Try and enjoy those last years as much as possible, instead of futilely and desperately trying to extend those years by denying themselves the joys that life can give them at that age.

How old are your parents? Have you seen what life looks like, past 80, for a lot of people?

My parents are in their 60s, but my grandmother is 94 and she is fine. She is way slow now, doesnt drive but enjoys much of life.

I think most people live their lives with the understanding that its going to end some day, what do older people do that you think they should not?

The only thing my grandmother does out of the norm is take a few meds, and currently seeing a doctor for a scratch on her leg, just a cat scratch but it got infected.


actually my grandmother is probably more healthy than both my parents put together

 

[samsara15]

There are always exceptions to any rule. Your grandmother is apparently one such. We do a lot of traveling, on cruise ships, and in groups, and we see a lot of older people (older than us), and my comment was based on my observations of the people we see when traveling. There is also the negative evidence – most of the people we see on these trips are in their sixties or seventies, there is a significant drop off in people over 80, they are much fewer than the people a little bit younger. When we do see people in the 80s on these occasions, they are noticeably frailer and weaker than people in their seventies.

I think people should be much less trusting and more skeptical of their doctors and the doctor’s claims about how much they can do for them as well. Particularly their GPs or primary care physicians.

My Mom, 91, is very prone to getting colds from younger people, has not enjoyed eating for several years, is not very spry, falls sometimes, and has brittle bones.

Just taking a few pills may not seem like much, but before you know it, they have you taking three or more pills per day, which makes you dependent on your doctor.

 

[Pandora]

There are always exceptions to any rule. Your grandmother is apparently one such. We do a lot of traveling, on cruise ships, and in groups, and we see a lot of older people (older than us), and my comment was based on my observations of the people we see when traveling. There is also the negative evidence – most of the people we see on these trips are in their sixties or seventies, there is a significant drop off in people over 80, they are much fewer than the people a little bit younger. When we do see people in the 80s on these occasions, they are noticeably frailer and weaker than people in their seventies.

I think people should be much less trusting and more skeptical of their doctors and the doctor’s claims about how much they can do for them as well. Particularly their GPs or primary care physicians.

My Mom, 91, is very prone to getting colds from younger people, has not enjoyed eating for several years, is not very spry, falls sometimes, and has brittle bones.

Just taking a few pills may not seem like much, but before you know it, they have you taking three or more pills per day, which makes you dependent on your doctor.

ah,

I guess I did not understand what you were talking about in old age, My grandmother is very slow compared to my parents, her bones are also brittle, she is not spry, hell I am not either grandma gets colds from younger people and probably older people too, anyone with a cold around her has a chance to give her a cold, but again me too. I probably have colds more often than her.

but what I dont get is your point? my grandmother along with everyone else I know thats old all know their time is closer than younger people. that hits them even more when a friend who is simular age dies. They dont think they can live for ever but I guess most of them take care of their self and see a doctor when they need to so they have a good quality of their golden years.

are you objecting to them seeing a doctor? I am not sure what the point of your thread is. I dont see older people thinking they can live forever, just hoping they can have a good quality of old age.

 

[samsara15]

but what I dont get is your point? my grandmother along with everyone else I know thats old all know their time is closer than younger people. that hits them even more when a friend who is simular age dies. They dont think they can live for ever but I guess most of them take care of their self and see a doctor when they need to so they have a good quality of their golden years.

are you objecting to them seeing a doctor? I am not sure what the point of your thread is. I dont see older people thinking they can live forever, just hoping they can have a good quality of old age.

I guess your experience is different from mine. I have friends who are in their Seventies who DO seem to think they can live forever, as long as they take their vitamin pills, zinc, and selenium and so forth...pill after pill.

I don't object to people seeing doctors, just I have had experience with doctors and older people who seem to think people can be immortal if they live a healthy lifestyle and think people should be skeptical. Maybe they DO realize their mortality and just want to put up an upbeat and positive face on their situation.

A good quality of old age is what most people want. What their expectations are is something that I can only surmise from people I know or have known.

Mom used to love sweets, but now she has lost her taste for them (and most other food) and it bothers her. She has lost weight and has to eat Nutrasweet or similar foods in a can to try to keep up her weight and says it tastes awful.

My Mother in law was very depressed in her later years after my father in law died and all her friends were dying.

I see a lot of people giving up the things they enjoy out of life because their doctor advised them to do so in order for them to live a few more years. IMO, they should think very carefully about what they want the last few years of their life to be like before following such medical advice.

 

[PLC1]

Sooner or later, we all die. That is the grim reality.

What a healthy lifestyle does is not make life last forever, but make life more enjoyable while we're here. Medical science can't fix every ailment of old age, but it can fix a whole lot more of them now than it could have done fifty years ago, and it can fix a whole lot more of them in someone who exercises regularly, eats moderately, and takes necessary meds.

What to do about end of life issues is much like the debate over abortion. When does life begin?

When does life end?

Is that person in the rest home who no longer recognizes family members still alive?

I can't answer that question for others, but as for me, I want to live as long as I can have an active life. When I can no longer take care of my own basic needs, that's the time to check out.

Maybe God will be merciful and take me all at once, maybe on the top of a mountain I just climbed.

 

[samsara15]

My brother's wife is only 51, and already immobilized with bad knees and a bad back from carrying too much weight. She already had both knees operated on. She hardly ever leaves the house anymore.

However, she doesn't eat much, and is apparently simply cursed with a slow metabolism. She cannot lose weight no matter how little she eats. She can't exercise because she is in too poor of a condtion to exercise.

 

[Pandora]

somehow I am waiting for the bomb to drop that you feel a need to "put down" elderly to save money or something.

this thread is not leading that way is it?

I dont see any difference in killing a baby in the womb and killing an 80 year old man who is "sucking up medical resources" to me its all murder, so somehow I guess I figure to pro abortionists its all acceptable.

 

[Dr.Who]

somehow I am waiting for the bomb to drop that you feel a need to "put down" elderly to save money or something.

this thread is not leading that way is it?

I dont see any difference in killing a baby in the womb and killing an 80 year old man who is "sucking up medical resources" to me its all murder, so somehow I guess I figure to pro abortionists its all acceptable.

It is either going that way or it is going to say that they should be limited in how much medical care they can take.

Personally I see that there are already limits on how much they can take. They can take as much as they, their family, their friends, their charities, etc. are willing to pay for. Unlike having some nameless, heartless, and incompetent beaurocrat make that decision this one is made by the patient himself and is actually fair.

The left points to some minority that cannot pay for treatment, which is a problem that needs to be solved, but then proposes a solution that is worse than the original problem.

 

[Pandora]

It is either going that way or it is going to say that they should be limited in how much medical care they can take.

Personally I see that there are already limits on how much they can take. They can take as much as they, their family, their friends, their charities, etc. are willing to pay for. Unlike having some nameless, heartless, and incompetent beaurocrat make that decision this one is made by the patient himself and is actually fair.

The left points to some minority that cannot pay for treatment, which is a problem that needs to be solved, but then proposes a solution that is worse than the original problem.

I see it going to that too, thats why the thread caught my eye. Before you know it we will justify offing granny because she wont die fast enough. If someone can kill a baby, they can kill grandma.

In my state they fought hard to get doctor assisted suicide, there were problems at first, men and women dragging their mothers and fathers to doctors for doctor assisted suicide. They did not want to die but the kids convinced the doctor they were "depressed" and wanted to go. a few cases got out of the elderly saying they did not want it and it all got shut down, the Feds took it and I hear its coming back, but hopefully not like before.

I am glad my son is pro life, I know he wont off me when Im old


if this seems bad wait for "free" health care. We will have to really incourage abortion and killing off granny so there is enough money for the rest of us

 

[samsara15]

I would like to have the option of euthanasia for myself, to have the option of voluntary euthanasia legal for all who wish to use it. Would you deny it to me, and force me to die a painful, expensive, and lingering death in a hospital?

 

[Pandora]

I would like to have the option of euthanasia for myself, to have the option of voluntary euthanasia legal for all who wish to use it. Would you deny it to me, and force me to die a painful, expensive, and lingering death in a hospital?

go for it, Id lend you my gun


where I have a problem is when 40 year old men drag their mother around doctor shopping because he wants her to die with dignity (lmao) because he is worried her medical bills will eat into what he gets when she dies.

or of course any law that does a logans run type deal on us all.

 

[samsara15]

I certainly would not advocate relatives or the state or the hospitals/doctors deciding when a person wants to die - it has to be their own decision.