America the Gutless

[Mr. Shaman]

FYI Shaman, Vietnam was NOT a movie, it was real....

Uh, yeah.....I remember waiting to be Drafted, after H.S. Graduation.

I hardly need any "lessons" from someone who knew somebody, Skippy.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

That's right, keep ignoring the truth. We WON.....

Yeah.....and, these dudes were (merely) bringin' the kegs, to celebrate.

 

[Popeye]

That's right, keep ignoring the truth. We WON, and you can't stand it, because it proves the failure of your entire "hate America first" Commie mentality.

Can't accept defeat can you? Historians have recorded Vietnam as a major blunder and defeat for the US imperialists, and an overwhelmingly victory for the Vietcong as they taught America a real lesson in guerrilla warfare.

 

[Mr. Carpenter]

Can't accept defeat can you? Historians have recorded Vietnam as a major blunder and defeat for the US imperialists, and an overwhelmingly victory for the Vietcong as they taught America a real lesson in guerrilla warfare.

You mean revisionist "historians", who were part of the "Hate America First" crowd during the War, and were out there actively protesting it. Not exactly a credible source.

As far as them teaching us a "lesson" about guerilla warfare, exactly how do your square that with the fact that we beat them unmercifully, for over a decade, and the casualty count in combat was over 100 to 1.

If you think that losing 100 of your fellow Commies to one red blooded American, and then having to sue for peace qualifies as a victory, you really should seek professional psychological counseling ASAP.

 

[Popeye]

You mean revisionist "historians", who were part of the "Hate America First" crowd during the War, and were out there actively protesting it. Not exactly a credible source.

As far as them teaching us a "lesson" about guerilla warfare, exactly how do your square that with the fact that we beat them unmercifully, for over a decade, and the casualty count in combat was over 100 to 1.

If you think that losing 100 of your fellow Commies to one red blooded American, and then having to sue for peace qualifies as a victory, you really should seek professional psychological counseling ASAP.

Sure the casualty count was higher on the Vietcong side...the US had the far superior weapons..which they also used to wantonly slaughter millions of innocent civilians.

Nevertheless, be by the peace table or whatever, the US was driven from the country. It's all about the area gained, not the casualty count.

As I stated before, the US would have never sat down at the table had not the war become unwinnable. The Nixon Administration was looking for a way out, while at the same time attempting to retain a little bit of respect.

The loss in Vietnam taught America some needed humility...Accept defeat like a man... it'll do you good

 

[Mr. Shaman]

You mean revisionist "historians", who were part of the "Hate America First" crowd during the War, and were out there actively protesting it. Not exactly a credible source.

Yeah....good ol' Texas is making every effort to resolve such problems.

 

[BigRob]

Sure the casualty count was higher on the Vietcong side...the US had the far superior weapons..which they also used to wantonly slaughter millions of innocent civilians.

This is hardly accurate. The estimates range from 50,000 to "several million." The evidence does not back up the several million claim with any real validity.

Nevertheless, be by the peace table or whatever, the US was driven from the country. It's all about the area gained, not the casualty count.

As I stated before, the US would have never sat down at the table had not the war become unwinnable. The Nixon Administration was looking for a way out, while at the same time attempting to retain a little bit of respect.

The loss in Vietnam taught America some needed humility...Accept defeat like a man... it'll do you good

Debating the semantics will get you nowhere. We wanted an out yes. But we were not exactly "driven" out of the country either.

The war in Vietnam continues to reverberate through the Army today. We continue to see the effects of it in our tactics, planning, and upper officer personalities.

In the context of the Cold War leaving was a disaster. In that context, "accepting defeat like a man" would have resulted in Soviet domination of the world most likely.

 

[Popeye]

This is hardly accurate. The estimates range from 50,000 to "several million." The evidence does not back up the several million claim with any real validity.

Go with the low number if you like...it's still way too many. Indiscriminately bombing and napalming civilians didn't go over well with the American public, not to mention it turned many of the friends we had among the Vietnamese populace against us.

The war in Vietnam continues to reverberate through the Army today. We continue to see the effects of it in our tactics, planning, and upper officer personalities.

The Vietnam war continues to reverberate because the vietcong's tactics were so successful against us....which has really been my point.

In the context of the Cold War leaving was a disaster. In that context, "accepting defeat like a man" would have resulted in Soviet domination of the world most likely.

More speculation, the Domino Theory has long been discredited.

 

[BigRob]

Go with the low number if you like...it's still way too many. Indiscriminately bombing and napalming civilians didn't go over well with the American public, not to mention it turned many of the friends we had among the Vietnamese populace against us.

We firebombed Germany and then used nuclear weapons in Germany. Most people are not all that upset about that fact.

The Vietnam war continues to reverberate because the vietcong's tactics were so successful against us....which has really been my point.

It reverberates more within the Army in the fact the high up officers today were the junior officers at that time. It was more so the way we fought the war that reverberates, not the way the Vietcong fought the war. That is a large reason why Powell advocates involvement in the third world the way that the does.

More speculation, the Domino Theory has long been discredited.

It certainly was not discredited at the time.

 

[Mr. Carpenter]

Sure the casualty count was higher on the Vietcong side...the US had the far superior weapons..which they also used to wantonly slaughter millions of innocent civilians.

Define "innocent civilians", and present your evidence of "millions" of them that we slaughtered.

Nevertheless, be by the peace table or whatever, the US was driven from the country. It's all about the area gained, not the casualty count.

Let me get this right, it's your assertion that we should have STAYED in Vietnam after '73, as we did in Germany, Japan, and Korea? Is it your assertion that we should have deposed the (albeit not very effectively running) government of an ally?

As I stated before, the US would have never sat down at the table had not the war become unwinnable.

That's a blatant lie. We sat down at the peace table because the N. Vietnamese SUED FOR PEACE! THEY are the ones that SURRENDERED, not us.

The Nixon Administration was looking for a way out, while at the same time attempting to retain a little bit of respect.

Yeah, right, looking for a way out of victory? That sounds suspiciously like something that you Democrats do. Come to think about it, that's the same garbage that the idiot liberals were talking about doing in mid '42 before we turned the tide and started kicking the Japs ass back across the Pacific.

The loss in Vietnam taught America some needed humility...Accept defeat like a man... it'll do you good

When there is a defeat to admit, I'll willingly do so, but I'm not going to "admit" defeat when there was none.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

This is hardly accurate. The estimates range from 50,000 to "several million." The evidence does not back up the several million claim with any real validity.

1.3M

Any "student" of 'Nam knows that.

 

[BigRob]

1.3M

Any "student" of 'Nam knows that.

That is military deaths Dr. Genius. He claimed we killed millions of "innocent" civilians.

Carry on.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

We firebombed Germany and then used nuclear weapons in Germany.

NUKES??!!!!

Where-in-the-World did you pick-up THAT little gem??!!!

 

[BigRob]

NUKES??!!!!

Where-in-the-World did you pick-up THAT little gem??!!!

Obviously I meant Japan.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Obviously I meant Japan.

I guess everyone's guilty of committing a Palin, from-time-to-time.