An Attack Dog Meets His Match

[Andy]

All this good stuff, of course ignores the fact that in the European countries all people are included in the data due to socialized medicine, whereas the U.S. data is skewed because it only includes wealthy, those with insurance, and excludes those who are not in the system due to poverty...they just die.

No, actually it does not exclude anyone. This includes all income levels. All people who received treatment. Just so you know, it's illegal for someone to be denied care if they show up at an ER.


So, you are wrong. Thanks for playing. Have a nice day.

 

[Andy]

As it should be. A "high quality" system means nothing to those who cannot afford it.

There is nothing an ER is going to do for a person who walks in with any on going, long term condition (Cancer, Diabetes, Emphysema, Et.AL.). These are virtually a death sentence for the person without health care.

Prove it. List all the examples of people being denied diabetes medicine and dying. Millions of people have that illness, and if people were dying constantly because of it, you should be able to find hundreds, if not thousands of examples where they were kicked out of the hospital and died.

Of course you can't, because you are wrong yet again. Thanks for playing, have a nice day.

 

[top gun]

All this good stuff, of course ignores the fact that in the European countries all people are included in the data due to socialized medicine, whereas the U.S. data is skewed because it only includes wealthy, those with insurance, and excludes those who are not in the system due to poverty...they just die.

Good point... and anyone who contends that people without health insurance coverage have the same access to healthcare as those that do because when they're on death's door they can go to the Emergency Room...

God have mercy on their souls because they are mentally retarded.

 

[dahermit]

No, actually it does not exclude anyone. This includes all income levels. All people who received treatment. Just so you know, it's illegal for someone to be denied care if they show up at an ER.


So, you are wrong. Thanks for playing. Have a nice day.

Read my post again (carefully). "...people who are not in the system due to poverty".

 

[pocketfullofshells]

But as far as the quality of care goes, we have the best system in the world. You have a better chance of surviving an illness here, than anywhere else in the world.

unless of course you dont have health care....or your insurance decieded to say no to treatment ( company death panals are ok to some Republicans) but becuse god knows we cant have the goverment help...otherwise we could end up like those other nations on earth that score better on health and actuly have all there people covered....that would be a shame


and andy just say it, you dont care if Beck changes his mind in a span of 30 sec, becuse he is on your side....or maybe you know know he is a bipolar crying idiot....

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Prove it. List all the examples of people being denied diabetes medicine and dying. Millions of people have that illness, and if people were dying constantly because of it, you should be able to find hundreds, if not thousands of examples where they were kicked out of the hospital and died.

Of course you can't, because you are wrong yet again. Thanks for playing, have a nice day.

Andy you live in a damn dream world....if you could just walk in and they did it...why would anyone pay for insurance to do it? only takes a once of logic here...

and whats teh cost of treating a guy with no health care for a massive heart attack?

now what was the cost of a check up and some early treatment?

what cost more?

do the math

 

[dahermit]

Prove it. List all the examples of people being denied diabetes medicine and dying. Millions of people have that illness, and if people were dying constantly because of it, you should be able to find hundreds, if not thousands of examples where they were kicked out of the hospital and died.

Of course you can't, because you are wrong yet again. Thanks for playing, have a nice day.

A person who entered an ER with elevated blood sugar levels would be treated with insulin. After the initial crisis was over, they may be given a prescription for insulin. They may not have the money to fill the prescription. They may not have a refrigerator to store the insulin. ER's do not hand our blood glucose strips or meters. In any case, after the initial crisis is treated in an emergency room, they will be advised to consult with their family doctor for long term management of the disease. If poor, they will not have a family doctor or the money to consult with one. No one is kicked out of the hospital, but the result of no long term care is obvious.

Call your local ER and ask them how they "treat" long term illnesses of the indigent...I think you will find that they will say: "We are not equipped to do that, we are a critical care unit, maybe there is a free clinic that will do that..." And of course, most of the time there is not.

Homeless people die on the streets every day. Many who live in poverty who are not homeless go home to die. I do not know of any source of data for the cause of each death...neither do you. If you disagree...You prove it is not so.

Diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, tuberculosis, emphysema, Lupus, chrones syndrome, etc., etc., etc., are diseases that need continuous maintenance treatment, including education and other considerations that are not provided in a twenty-minute treatment in an ER.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

A person who entered an ER with elevated blood sugar levels would be treated with insulin. After the initial crisis was over, they may be given a prescription for insulin. They may not have the money to fill the prescription. They may not have a refrigerator to store the insulin. In any case, after the initial crisis is treated in an emergency room, they will be advised to consult with their family doctor for long term management of the disease. If poor, they will not have a family doctor or the money to consult with one. No one is kicked out of the hospital, but the result of no long term care is obvious.

Call your local ER and ask them how they "treat" long term illnesses of the indigent...I think you will find that they will say: "We are not equipped to do that, we are a critical care unit, maybe there is a free clinic that will do that..." And of course, most of the time there is not.

Homeless people die on the streets every day. Many who live in poverty who are not homeless go home to die. I do not know of any source of data for the cause of each death...neither do you. If you disagree...You prove it is not so.

Diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, tuberculosis, emphysema, Lupus, chrones syndrome, etc., etc., etc., are diseases that need continuous maintenance treatment, including education and other considerations that are not provided in a twenty-minute treatment in an ER.

my freind/ex has a medical condition as well that without treatment could have had her basicly starve to death had she not got a opperation. She ends up in the ER at least once a month sometimes more due to it still...But I am sure andy thinks if she lost her job it would be all paid for ...but of course not by the goverment,,,cuz that would be evil!

 

[dahermit]

my freind/ex has a medical condition as well that without treatment could have had her basicly starve to death had she not got a opperation. She ends up in the ER at least once a month sometimes more due to it still...But I am sure andy thinks if she lost her job it would be all paid for ...but of course not by the goverment,,,cuz that would be evil!

Yes, the ER's respond to the critical situation and cannot turn anyone away. But like your experience, they can do nothing for a continuing condition. For instance, if someone had an aortic heart valve that was calcifying and needed a valve replacement, upon entering an ER with symptoms, they would listen to the heart, confirm from the murmur that there could be a calcification problem, maybe perform an ultra sound to confirm, give or prescribe some nitro for the pain and send them on their way with instructions to "see a cardiologist".

Where as, if the person were insured, their cardiologist would order a heart cath, ultra sound, Doppler ultrasound, and if bad enough, would refer the patient to a surgeon who would operate and replace the heart valve. None of this would be done or scheduled in an ER for an indigent patient, one without insurance (if they do not have insurance, they certainly could not afford to pay for this major operation with their own resources).

Andy, what is so hard for you to understand?

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Yes, the ER's respond to the critical situation and cannot turn anyone away. But like your experience, they can do nothing for a continuing condition. For instance, if someone had an aortic heart valve that was calcifying and needed a valve replacement, upon entering an ER with symptoms, they would listen to the heart, confirm from the murmur that there could be a calcification problem, maybe perform an ultra sound to confirm, give or prescribe some nitro for the pain and send them on their way with instructions to "see a cardiologist".

Where as, if the person were insured, their cardiologist would order a heart cath, ultra sound, Doppler ultrasound, and if bad enough, would refer the patient to a surgeon who would operate and replace the heart valve. None of this would be done or scheduled in an ER for an indigent patient, one without insurance (if they do not have insurance, they certainly could not afford to pay for this major operation with their own resources).

Andy, what is so hard for you to understand?

maybe its all the facts in there.....

 

[top gun]

Yes, the ER's respond to the critical situation and cannot turn anyone away. But like your experience, they can do nothing for a continuing condition. For instance, if someone had an aortic heart valve that was calcifying and needed a valve replacement, upon entering an ER with symptoms, they would listen to the heart, confirm from the murmur that there could be a calcification problem, maybe perform an ultra sound to confirm, give or prescribe some nitro for the pain and send them on their way with instructions to "see a cardiologist".

Where as, if the person were insured, their cardiologist would order a heart cath, ultra sound, Doppler ultrasound, and if bad enough, would refer the patient to a surgeon who would operate and replace the heart valve. None of this would be done or scheduled in an ER for an indigent patient, one without insurance (if they do not have insurance, they certainly could not afford to pay for this major operation with their own resources).

Andy, what is so hard for you to understand?

I agree with pocket too many facts in here.

Or it could be you're talking to high brow. Try adding a "DUH" in now and then.

Like this...

Where as, if the person were insured, their cardiologist would order a heart cath, ultra sound, Doppler ultrasound, and if bad enough, would refer the patient to a surgeon who would operate and replace the heart valve. DUH!

 

[BigRob]

As it should be. A "high quality" system means nothing to those who cannot afford it.

A high quality system does not lose quality of care if someone cannot afford it either.

 

[dahermit]

A high quality system does not lose quality of care if someone cannot afford it either.

No one said it did. That is not the point. Our "heathcare system" is little different than a homeless person pressing his nose against the glass of an upscale restaurant watching the rich eat black truffles and caviar. No matter how good the food is, the poor are not getting any.

 

[BigRob]

No one said it did. That is not the point. Our "heathcare system" is little different than a homeless person pressing his nose against the glass of an upscale restaurant watching the rich eat black truffles and caviar. No matter how good the food is, the poor are not getting any.

But that does not diminish the ranking of that restaurant in reviews simply because all people can not go in and eat as they wish.

If you want to measure the quality of care, then measure the quality, access has nothing to do with quality. If you want to measure the access to care, then measure the access, not the quality. That is a major flaw in the WHO report in my opinion.