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Are you a liberal?

Discussion in 'U.S. Politics' started by PLC1, May 22, 2008.

?

Are you a liberal according to the definition given?

  1. Yes, I'm a liberal, by that definition.

    1 vote(s)
    11.1%
  2. No, I may be a liberal, but not according to the definition given.

    7 vote(s)
    77.8%
  3. I'm not sure.

    1 vote(s)
    11.1%
  1. PLC1

    PLC1 Moderator Staff Member

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    The following definition of the term "liberal" was posted by "Libsmasher" on the thread "What is a Liberal". Of course, t here were many other definitions posted also, but since Libsmasher has the term right in his name, I decided to go with his. A liberal must believe in the following:

    - pro appeasement
    - pro abortion
    - pro bureacracy and regulation
    - anti trade
    - pro white racial discrimination
    - pro taxes
    - anti US sovereignty
    - pro illegal alien
    - pro balkanization
    - pro statist
    - anti capitalist
    - pro ecofascist
    - pro health care rationing

    Do you believe in at least 80% or more of the above values? If so, then you're a liberal and should vote yes. If you believe in fewer than half of them, then you must not be a liberal, and should vote no. If you're somewhere in between, then vote "not sure."
     
  2. pocketfullofshells

    pocketfullofshells Well-Known Member

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    It appears I am not .

    - pro appeasement. Only if Appease means talk, and if they dont act, push harder till they listen, and if they realy get out of hand, Military can be a option.

    - pro abortion: As much as I dont care for kids, mostly other peoples, I would most likly like my own, and like my freinds ( but I pick freinds who are not so dumb as to end up with dumb kids)
    - pro bureacracy and regulation. I have to say no, becuse some Regulation is good and needed to make the system fair and work. Buracracy on the other hand not so much.
    - anti trade. I am for Fair trade. Seems that no Trading at all would suck, I would have to live of the land and do everything myself like a cave man.
    - pro white racial discrimination. I do hate white people, I yell at the man in the mirror evry day.
    - pro taxes. Well i am pro paying for things and not just spending money and not paying for it. So I guess not a Conservative there,
    - anti US sovereignty. I am for the US should have to do what ever Israel wants us to do.
    - pro illegal alien. I am against them I would force them all to be legal aliens.
    - pro balkanization. Not sure, would have to see if I am living in the Albanian or Serb part....
    - pro statist..I like Commonwealths more
    - anti capitalist. I think that I work in sales, normally Commission based, makes me a bad commie...so I have say no.
    - pro ecofascist
    - pro health care rationing. I though Republicans wanted it Rationed....90% for the rich, 5% for the middle class, and none for the poor.
     
  3. Mare Tranquillity

    Mare Tranquillity Active Member

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    This poll reminds me of ones done by a guy named Devyl who wrote his polls in such a way as to get the answers he wanted. Lipsmasher doesn't define the terms so "appeasement" could mean anything that is handy at the time. What the Hell is an "ecofascist"? "Balkanization" of what or where? "Illegal alien"? I don't even believe in UFO's. Does "pro white racial discrimination" mean discrimination against whites or against people who aren't white? Is "health care rationing" when one can't afford medical care?
     
  4. Bunz

    Bunz New Member

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    There should have been an option that has something along the lines of,
    I dont care what Libs definition is.
     
  5. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

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    There should of been an option saying, I used to be but then became educated on the facts and now I am a conservative.
     
  6. numinus

    numinus New Member

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    I so despise attempts at putting people and their opinions in neat little boxes labeled 'liberal' or 'conservative'.

    The only requirement for a valid opinion is that it is based on FACTS AND LOGIC.
     
  7. Popeye

    Popeye Active Member

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    That poll is ridiculous, therefore I won't vote in it. What self respecting person would participate in a poll created and defined by someone with an obvious agenda?
     
  8. sun tzu

    sun tzu New Member

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    With all due respect to Libsmasher, he isn't exactly unbiased in his opinions, as I think (hope)he admits. I mean, what person is going to say he's racist against whites, anti-capitalist, eco-fascist, anti-US sovereignty, or anti-trade?

    A liberal is someone who believes in allowing people to make choices about just about everything in there life, but also believe that taxes are neccassary, and probably should'nt be curbed. A liberal is usually against war on principle, but can be persuaded by logical reasoning (or lies, as Bush proved). Liberals aren't the Blame America First fools people like Libsmasher makes them out to be; in my expeiriance, they love America as much as any conservative. They just exercise that love differently: as opposed to saying America is always right (which isn't possible and isn't true), they try and rectify the times when America is wrong through collective criticism, so that the government types get the message. That is why, at age 14, I can now consider myself a Liberal; not because I think Conservatives hate America (in my expeiriance most of them don't), but because I think liberals go about government in a more effective way. But I can see the other side of the issue with respect, unlike libsmasher.
     
  9. Libsmasher

    Libsmasher New Member

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    Well OF COURSE libs won't admit how they are! :D:rolleyes:

    That's simply false - libs want choices available for the kinds of things their clients would want to chose, and suppress other's ability to make choices.

    Liberals are NOT usually against war on principle. Libs and their wars:

    Woodrow Wilson: WWI
    Franklin Roosevelt: WWII
    Harry Truman: Korean war
    John Kennedy: Vietnam war
    Lyndon Johnson: Vietnam war

    Jimmy Carter was in fact the only lib appeaser president in the last 100 years.

    Simply false - libs DO blame america for everything - I've heard them blame the US for WWII and 9/11, just to name two preposterous blamings. What ever goes wrong, if there is an american side and a foreign side, they'll almost always be on the foreign side.

    Give major policy examples of that?
     
  10. Libsmasher

    Libsmasher New Member

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    A load of crap -libs have been saying to cut and run from iraq since day 1 - not "talk".

    Interesting - now how about commenting on abortion?


    "Fair trade" is a lib statist cliche for stopping free trade by imposing untenable constraints on US trading partners. Since libs don't understand trade, let alone capitalism, they are unable to grasp how this will hurt the US in the long run.

    You support racist policies and actions - that makes you a racist.

    Clueless - don't even understand the issue, do you? :)

    "legal alien" is an oxymoron, and YOU are a just plain --- well, nevermind. :)

    Clueless again. :rolleyes:


    Pure fiction.
     
  11. vyo476

    vyo476 Active Member

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    Not appeasement, open negotiation. If we do wind up at war with Iran it would be least as much our fault. One of the reasons the present administration won't sit down and talk with Iran is what the Iranians have to say - and if they refuse to talk to us, what would stop them from citing the same reason? Hypocrisy. Nothing is harmed by peaceful discourse.

    I am not "pro-abortion." I've gone back and forth on this issue enough times that I'm a little dizzy. The only thing I'm "pro-" in this category would be removing the need for abortions - through research into better contraceptives and better sexual education.

    I am not pro-bureaucracy. I don't know anyone who is.

    As for regulation, yes, I believe in it in some facets. When it comes to firearms, I believe some regulation is necessary. When it comes to food and medicine, I believe some regulation is necessary. I don't believe in prohibition of those types of items - just steps to maintain public safety.

    Huh?

    This is a farce. I advocate racial equality.

    When necessary. Even the founding fathers recognized the necessity of generating government revenue somehow.

    What is this nonsense?

    If by that you mean that I empathize with people who enter this country illegally looking for a better life, then yeah, sure, I'm pro-illegal alien. I am not pro-illegal immigration, and I would seek to heal the issues that cause it. I doubt that putting up walls or putting armed guards on the border will really stem the tide of illegal immigration; instead, helping the Latin American countries from which most illegal aliens are coming these days to become more developed should help solve the problem.

    Wait a minute. The old stereotype is that liberals favor a large, strong central government. How does balkanization fit that stereotype?

    And for the record, no, I do not support balkanization.

    Not always. I have and continue to advocate as much private action on the issues that are important to me as public action, and generally prefer the former over the latter.

    In some instances. I'm not terribly comfortable with capitalism, but until something that really is better comes along, I won't be "anti-capitalist."

    Was this definition designed by a troll who draws no distinction between actual environmentalists and true "ecofascists" (read: ecoterrorists, the like, etc.)?

    I am a mild environmentalist. I believe in conservation where possible, and I believe in taking the necessary steps to ensure the sustainability of the planet. I am not a member of PETA. Environmentalism is not irrational.

    As I've stated before on this site, my mother suffers from a severely debilitating disease. It's hard for me to be objective when it comes to health care because I care less about what would benefit the most people and care everything about what would help her. Right now, she and my father have tried everything there is to try in the present system, and she still isn't getting enough to cross the border between "surviving" and "living." I'm willing to entertain options.
     
  12. pocketfullofshells

    pocketfullofshells Well-Known Member

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    Sarcasm, look it up some time..
     
  13. sun tzu

    sun tzu New Member

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    what a pointless insult. You can't seriously believe that Liberals hate America, and want to destroy all trade, do you?

    Oh, so you're saying that the Liberals are the party of the special interest groups. maybe I should point out that the oil companies have been expeiriencing mind blowing profits almost every year since the Republican president came into office, and that our president seems to be in denial about global climate change (the whole Kyoto treaty thing), which only benifits one group; the oil compaines.

    Also, how much money has your candidate excepted from lobbyists? How about Obama?

    Your party doesn't want to give homosexuals the choice to get married, Single mothers or rape victims the choice of abortion. Name one instance when liberals as a group have attempted to take away a group's right to choose

    That's a new one; Blaming the liberals for Vietnam. Remember Nixon? all the students at the colleges who were protesting? I think I remember you personally saying we lost that war because the Dems made us pull out too soon.

    Like I said, Libs don't start wars -- unless they're neccassary. WWI and WWII are wars I think you'll agree should have happened. Korea is debatable, but we saved South Korea, and that's what we went in to accomplish, after all.

    And I'd like to point out some republican wars. Off the top of my head, I can come up with four:

    George Bush senior -- the First Gulf War

    Richard Nixon -- Vietnam

    George Bush Jr. -- Afghanistan

    George Bush Jr. -- Iraq

    Liberals as a body do not blame America for WWII or 9/11. I don't hold the republicans accountable for all the crazy ramblings of Ann Coulter.
    Liberals are ready to criticize America any time it messes up. I think that is a good thing; it keeps stuff like the Keating 5 or Watergate from happening again.
     
  14. Libsmasher

    Libsmasher New Member

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    I look at what people actually DO. What you are is what you DO, not what you say you are. How can anyone say they love america, when they destroy everything in it? Like saying I love your house, after I burn it down.

    That point blew over your head.

    LOTS of democrats don't want them to have the choice to get married. I don't give a damn what gays do, as long as they stop asking for special privileges. One class of super-citizens, blacks, is more than we can afford already.

    You're damn right I don't support abortions of convenience - and the "rape victims" is a red herring, they are 1% of all abortions.


    They want to remove a person's constitutionally guaranteed right to bear arms. Whew!! That was difficult - had to think for a whole hour!!

    It's a new one only to the historically ignorant - Kennedy injected the first combat troops, and Johnson massively built it up till there were 500,000 troops there. I'm not going to argue facts with you.

    The guy who ended the democrat war? Yeah.

    If you want to argue the vietnam war, that should get a separate thread - and I'm not going to tutor you about the basic facts - read up a lot and then come back.

    Not at all - the US didn't need to enter WWI. Few historians will agree that we should have gotten into vietnam - another lib war.

    You're losing track of what was said - you said libs are usually against war on principle, which is demonstrably false - I never claimed that was true about republicans.

    No liberals just criticize america - period.
     
  15. vyo476

    vyo476 Active Member

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    We do not "destroy everything in it." That's a highly sensational fallacy. The truth is that most of us do love this country - we just want to see specific changes. You want to see specific changes too - does that mean you hate America?

    Oh, please. If the gay marriage debate was really about what the few intellectuals on the right say it's about then the whole thing would have been over years ago. The reason it stays in the spotlight is simple - prejudice.

    And if being a "super-citizen" means being part of a demographic with a 24.7% poverty rate (as opposed to the 8.6% poverty rate amongst white people) then I just have to wonder - where does the "super" part start benefiting them?

    But would you, personally, allow abortions for rape victims?

    You're right about this. Although our involvement in Vietnam began under Eisenhower, Kennedy was the first to send troops, and Johnson was the one who effectively took over the war from the French. Nixon was the one who ended it.

    How about World War II? Was that a "lib" war, given that FDR was probably the most big-government of all the Presidents of the US?

    This is simple-minded. Suggesting that there are reasons for things is plain, common sense. Suggesting that we may have contributed to those reasons doesn't mean we are solely, completely responsible, or that we're somehow "evil." The world is more complicated than that.

    Anyway, when I (at least) discuss how we've contributed to how the world is today, I'm not looking to assign blame, I'm looking for ways to develop solutions. Angry finger-pointing rarely accomplishes anything good.
     
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