Authorities: 4 dead in shooting in rural Blair Country, PA

[Little-Acorn]

Very strange that every gun owner who uses his gun to commit a crime is suddenly labeled a "whacko."

This is the kind of hysterical raving most leftist government-uber-alles types lapse into, when confronted with facts he can't refute but hates anyway.

It's becoming more frequent, as their agenda progressively fails.

 

[Openmind]

This is the kind of hysterical raving most leftist government-uber-alles types lapse into, when confronted with facts he can't refute but hates anyway.

It's becoming more frequent, as their agenda progressively fails.

Yep. . .this comments sounds very much like the "Obama will lose by a landslide" predictions of no more than 2 months ago!

Whatever your delusions are. . .enjoy them! And Merry Christmas to you too!

 

[Openmind]

I think I could agree with you on a lot of things...if you would just admit your wrong..

That goes both ways!

By the way. . .there is ONE VERY BIG thing that I was PROVEN RIGHT about. . .but no one ever bothered admitting it!

Remember all those predictions about "Obama losing by a landslide?"
And the Republicans taking the Senate?

That's okay. . .I know it's very hard to give up on illusions.
Have a Merry Christmas!

 

[cashmcall]

That goes both ways!

By the way. . .there is ONE VERY BIG thing that I was PROVEN RIGHT about. . .but no one ever bothered admitting it!

Remember all those predictions about "Obama losing by a landslide?"
And the Republicans taking the Senate?

That's okay. . .I know it's very hard to give up on illusions.
Have a Merry Christmas!

And I am as shocked by that as you are.. and with his record..jeez who would of thought? lol

 

[Openmind]

And I am as shocked by that as you are.. and with his record..jeez who would of thought? lol

Sorry, dear. It certainly wasn't a surprise to me, nor to most people with the ability to think more broadly than through Right wing propaganda.

Yes. . . it was a HUGE surprise for Rove, and Norquist, and Boehner, and obviously Romney and Ryan.
It wasn't a surprise for people who had not been brainwashed by Fox News, Coulter and Limbaugh. It certainly was not a surprise for Nate Silver!

But, since you don't seem to mind being "shocked," you'll have another opportunity in 2 years. . . if you continue to believe the "unskewed poll" predictions. Up to you!

 

[dogtowner]

This is the kind of hysterical raving most leftist government-uber-alles types lapse into, when confronted with facts he can't refute but hates anyway.

It's becoming more frequent, as their agenda progressively fails.

it always does as the leftist agenda always fails. but they cannot accept that their dogma always delivets failure so they look anywhete else for blame.

 

[Openmind]

it always does as the leftist agenda always fails. but they cannot accept that their dogma always delivets failure so they look anywhete else for blame.

Could you back up your opinion. . .as you asked me to back up my opinion earlier?

 

[Openmind]

You demand others provide links to credible sources, but you don't. Why?

Oh. . sorry. I just saw this comment today.
Well, I posted that link in another thread, so I was actually repeating myself.

But, I understand that you may not have come across that other post, so here it is:

In his first publication on the subject, in 1986, Kellermann studied all gunshot related deaths in Seattle over six years, and found that

• 54% of firearm-related deaths occurred in the home where the gun was kept
• 70.5% of these (firearm-related deaths in the home where the gun was kept) involved handguns
• 0.5% of these (firearm-related deaths in the home where the gun was kept) involved an intruder shot while attempting entry
• 1.8% of these (firearm-related deaths in the home where the gun was kept) were judged by police as self-defense
• there were 1.3 times as many accidental firearm-related deaths in the home where the gun was kept as self-protection shootings
• there were 4.6 times as many criminal firearm-related homicides in the home where the gun was kept as self-protection shootings
• there were 37 times as many suicides in the home where the gun was kept as self-protection shootings.

He concluded that "the advisability of keeping firearms in the home for protection must be questioned".[8] Critics of this study noted that it was restricted to firearm-related deaths, effectively excluding incidents in which gun owners used their firearm to injure and frighten away an intruder. But the study also excluded incidents in which individuals were non-fatally injured in a firearm accident, criminal assault or suicide attempt, as well as instances in which a homeowner used a gun to threaten or terrorize another member of the household, as sometimes occurs in the context of domestic violence. A subsequent Kellermann-led study identified both fatal and nonfatal injuries occurring in homes in 3 cities – Seattle WA, Memphis TN, and Galveston TX. It noted that for every time a gun in the home was used in a self-defense or legally justifiable shooting, there were four accidental shootings, seven criminal assaults or homicides, and 11 attempted or completed suicides. (J of Trauma, August 1998. pp: 263-267). He then developed the now much criticized 43:1 ratio that states every time a gun is used in self-defense, it is 43 times more likely to be used in a homicide, suicide, or accidental shooting.
The ratio was numerically accurate but, according to pro-gun groups, misleading because it compared harmful life-taking uses of guns not to life-saving defensive uses (the benefit corresponding to the harms of lives taken with firearms), but rather only to the tiny subset of defensive uses that involve killing a criminal assailant, i.e. justifiable homicides. The NRA and other pro-gun groups argued the ratio that seemed to imply a sort of cost-benefit ratio for gun ownership was actually nothing of the kind because, allegedly, it did not take account of any benefits that corresponded to its costs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Kellermann

And

Overall, Branas's study found that people who carried guns were 4.5 times as likely to be shot and 4.2 times as likely to get killed compared with unarmed citizens. When the team looked at shootings in which victims had a chance to defend themselves, their odds of getting shot were even higher.
http://www.newscientist.com/article...ncreases-risk-of-getting-shot-and-killed.html

 

[dogtowner]

Could you back up your opinion. . .as you asked me to back up my opinion earlier?

I commented that you seek it of others then omit it for yourself.

but herehttp://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2006/jun/21/comment.politics2
in general terms

here specifically

in South Africa

In Russia

in China

and in Europe

 

[Openmind]

I don't see much relation with your statement. But if that what you base your opinion on. . .I totally understand your position. . .but certainly do not agree!

 

[Gipper]

Oh. . sorry. I just saw this comment today.
Well, I posted that link in another thread, so I was actually repeating myself.

But, I understand that you may not have come across that other post, so here it is:



And

You have been duped by the liberal media...AGAIN. Kellerman's research and findings have been debunked by many. John Lott did so...and could you tell me ONE major issue enacted by liberals in the last 50 years that has worked, just one....please do so.

Dershowitz’s claim that guns are more likely to kill people in the gunowner’s home, Lott said that idea comes from Arthur Kellerman, an emergency room doctor who claims that guns are more likely to end up killing someone you know.

“Here’s the problem, and that is, whatever characteristics you want to point to that you think makes guns bad -- they may help make it easier for people to kill others, but they also make them easier for people to be able to use those guns in self-defense.” Women especially benefit from the compact design of some handguns, he added.

First of all, there are problems with the data, Lott said. “They assume that if you own a gun in the home and you died from a gunshot that it was that gun that was used in the death,” he explained.
“In fact, when people have gone back and looked at the data, even if you include suicide, 14 percent of the deaths that were being attributed to guns being in the home could actually be attributed to those guns in the home. The other 86 percent were actually due to weapons that were being brought in from the outside.”
On Dershowitz’s claim that the availability of guns is directly linked to high suicide rates, Lott said that the “majority” of research done on the topic “doesn’t find any relationship” between gun ownership, gun regulations and total suicide.
“But even the few that do claim to find a relationship between gun ownership or gun regulations and gun suicides don’t find any effect on total suicides, Lott said. “So basically there are a lot of ways to commit suicide and if somebody wants to go and commit suicide they’re going to find a way to go and do it,” he continued.
As for accidental gun deaths, Lott said that academics “don’t really study” them because they are a relatively small number of them each year.
Lott also debunked the correlation between the ease of obtaining guns and the ease of using them to kill other people. “If you look across cities, the cities that have the highest murder rates, they are the ones that tend to adopt the strictest gun control laws,” Lott said.
In the United States, Chicago, New York and Washington, D.C., are some of the cities with strict gun control laws – but a relatively high number of murders.
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/gun...ss-shootings-less-likely-happen-academic-says

 

[Openmind]

You have been duped by the liberal media...AGAIN. Kellerman's research and findings have been debunked by many. John Lott did so...and could you tell me ONE major issue enacted by liberals in the last 50 years that has worked, just one....please do so.

And I believe you are dupped daily by the Right wing media.

That makes us even

 

[Gipper]

And I believe you are dupped daily by the Right wing media.

That makes us even

I know it is news to you and your kind, but there really is a right and a wrong. But for one to find the truth (the right), one must do research and educate one's self. I tried to this daily. Do you?

I will admit that I refuse to accept the leftist opinion on just about everything. That is because Leftists have a terrible track record and have a tremendous tendency to promote left wing propaganda.

You see Leftism or Liberalism or Progressivism is based on emotion, not reality or facts. As such, most things promoted the elite left makes absolutely NO SENSE AT ALL. Gun control is a perfect example of the this.

 

[Openmind]

I know it is news to you and your kind, but there really is a right and a wrong. But for one to find the truth (the right), one must do research and educate one's self. I tried to this daily. Do you?

I will admit that I refuse to accept the leftist opinion on just about everything. That is because Leftists have a terrible track record and have a tremendous tendency to promote left wing propaganda.

You see Leftism or Liberalism or Progressivism is based on emotion, not reality or facts. As such, most things promoted the elite left makes absolutely NO SENSE AT ALL. Gun control is a perfect example of the this.

And I think you are blowing wind.

I do not see your position as anymore legitimate in anyway than mine. . .in fact, I see it as the mirror image of mine, and I believe you are the reflection, and I am the reality.

I grant you that you are sincere in your beliefs, and I can respect that. But your not approving of my view is in no way a sign that I am wrong or misguided, but rather than you are.

So. . .let's agree to disagree. Tat's about as close as wa will ever get to an agreement!

But do not for one instant believe that I find myself in a position of weakness. . . .because I feel strongly that your views are set in an outdated and dying way of life, that heralds the wealthy and the lifestyle of a time gone by, while ine are headed to the future where discriminations will disappear and wealth will be counted as what one can contribute to the wellbeing of all rather thanthat of a minority.