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Bailout Observations

Discussion in 'U.S. Politics' started by Greco, Dec 12, 2008.

  1. Greco

    Greco New Member

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    When the bailout money started flowing to AIG, Wall Street, and other major financial institutions not one single Republican Senator or Congressmen rushed to place themselves in front of a network news camera to demand the white collar workers, or even top management be forced to take a pay cut. Not one single time did that happen.

    Now with the automotive bailout being discussed, legions of Republicans are posing for the cameras to demand the auto workers take a pay cut. Not one single time have these Republicans suggested the automotive white collar workers, or top management take a pay cut. Not once, not one single time has that happened. Nope, just the factory workers need to have their pay reduced, even though their pay is virtually comparable to what the non-union auto workers are earning at foreign automotive factories in the southern states.

    Republicans have fought against unions since their creation. They fought against child labor laws. They fought against collective bargaining. They fought against workplace safety standards. They've fought against the middle class and they're doing it again.
     
  2. foggedinn

    foggedinn New Member

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    For the sake of their precious ideological purity, right wing republican ideologes insist on driving the final nail into the coffin of the american economic system. It's been little more than a house of cards for some time. Unions have been one of the pllars propping it up. The Reagan solution to the air traffic controllers strike of the early 80's was a death blow to the unions, it's just taken them this long to die.

    I can't be particularly sympathetic to the Reagan democratic union members who voted against their own interests to put these kooks in power back in the 80's. They brought their downfall on themselves. Unfortunately for the rest of us, their downfall means the collapes of the whole system.

    As a man of faith, even though I don't completely understand it, I believe it is a perfect thing of the Lord.
     
  3. Unite Our Nation

    Unite Our Nation New Member

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    Guys, we must be watching different news because I have seen Republicans more against bailing out Wall Street than Dems. Now they aren't asking the likes of AIG or Fannie Mae (which Dems have taken millions from) to not only step down, but they are actively looking into putting them in prison!

    Excerpt:
    "The measure, which is designed to get battered lending markets working normally again, needed 218 votes for passage. But it came up 13 votes short of that target, with a final vote of 228 to 205 against. Two-thirds of Democrats and one-third of Republicans voted for the measure."

    Also, you can't compare the two. The former (Wall Street) has been shown to be profitable for years and years. The later (Big 3 Auto) have been failing for years now. They are "burning" through BILLIONS monthly. Plus, the public is making LOUD NOISES that they do NOT want the bail out of the auto companies.

    The unions are THE CULPRIT for the Big 3 Auto failing. Unions have made our country incapable of competing in the world!! They are a death grip on anything they are involved in that has competition from out of the country. The union has a monopoly that has to be broken for the sake of the workers and our economy.

    Check this comparison out. Big 3 wages are in the $74+ and the other auto companies nearly half of that! You can't compete with those figures.

    http://seekingalpha.com/article/105...ig-three-automakers-with-73-20-per-hour-labor
     
  4. Mr. Shaman

    Mr. Shaman New Member

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    Yeah.....we wouldn't want to blame accounting-errors for any of the present-problems.....especially when bonuses are Priority 1!!
     
  5. BigRob

    BigRob Well-Known Member

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    The current CEO's on Wall Street (for the most part, there are a few) had nothing to do with running their companies into the ground. They all came in after that was inevitable. To ask a CEO who did not destroy the company to take a pay cut is meaningless. If you want a good CEO to try to get you turned around, you do not force them to take less money.
     
  6. Greco

    Greco New Member

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    Two points….

    “Check this comparison out. Big 3 wages are in the $74+ and the other auto companies nearly half of that! You can't compete with those figures.”

    That’s a false claim being made by Republicans to justify their actions. The New York Times debunks the claim that the Big Three auto workers earn $73 an hour. The real number, the truth, is a union worker earns about $55.

    http://blogs.moneycentral.msn.com/t...1/do-auto-workers-really-earn-73-an-hour.aspx

    “The current CEO's on Wall Street (for the most part, there are a few) had nothing to do with running their companies into the ground. They all came in after that was inevitable. To ask a CEO who did not destroy the company to take a pay cut is meaningless. If you want a good CEO to try to get you turned around, you do not force them to take less money.”

    The current automotive factory worker had nothing to do with running their companies either. To ask a factory worker who did not destroy the company to take a pay cut is meaningless. If you want a good product produced you do not force workers to take less money.

    One of the points the Republicans, including the Bush appointee, the Secretary of the Treasury, fought against in the Wall Street bailout bill were attempts to regulate CEO compensation at the failed institutions we're being asked to shell out our money to save. While logic might indicate that rewarding a CEO for failing doesn't make much sense, apparently it does to Republicans.

    I'd like to see Republicans attempt to justify this news item that was published Wednesday, October 1st on MSN's online financial section.

    "Congress wants to crack down on CEO mega-salaries for banks participating in the bailout. And while politicians argue how best to do that, Alan Fishman of Washington Mutual (WaMu) is headed for the doors with $19 million in his pocket."

    "If that wasn't outrageous enough, consider this: Fishman started the job three weeks ago. I never saw the employment ad Fishman answered, but it must have read something like this:

    WANTED: Top executive for train-wreck bank about to be seized by federal regulators. Must be able to look busy while FDIC sells business from under you. Previous experience with angry shareholders sitting on worthless stock a plus. Perks: $7.5 million hiring bonus and $11.6 million cash severance."

    "Fishman got the best temp gig in history."
     
  7. Mr.Dysfunctional

    Mr.Dysfunctional New Member

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    if we do not reduce pay for the CEO's of these companies as retrubution for the bail-out within itself then the public deserves some form of restitution to ease the fact we are handing them billions of our money.

    I see it no other way.. ethier we punish the former accountants and CEO heads directly responsible or suffer the fact that history will repeat itself. Furthermore public confidence in the senate and house to ensure Justice for all will continue to fall.

    What was the approval rating of congress lately ? Exactly .. the fact is argue as we might about these subjects.. nethier Repubs or Demos are upholding good moral charchter in the face of a crisis...

    While Repubs have not stood up for their belief system enough, it should also be pointed out that dem's are more responsible for flushing down our country lately then any other.

    Supporting bail-outs will not only cause Inflation down the road but shows that our government no longer believes in the Capitalist system and its view-points have SHARPLY changed from public opoion.

    Continue to support these backwards , courpt , arrogant and unlawful crooks and long as you want.. I for one will spell out what needs to have happen..

    Veto any further bail-outs to allow the correction in the market to happen.. and impeach any proponents for them because 9/10 are in bed with that corporpration anyways.
    The Market is made to correct itself no matter how hard people try to bend its will.. it has happened now and will happen in the future..
     
  8. Greco

    Greco New Member

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    Again, the point of the original post is the fact that Republicans have made no demands for compensation cuts for white collar or top management of companies already receiving or seeking bailouts or federal loans. The only group singled out by Republicans to have their wages and benefits slashed are factory workers, and they've made that a deal killer.
     
  9. Andy

    Andy Well-Known Member

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    Am I reading news from a different planet? First, they didn't need to rush to the cameras, the restriction on executive pay was in the bill. Didn't you know that?

    Further, those restrictions were added only after Republicans complained the democrats were going to give out the money without any oversight whatsoever.

    Finely, the whole reason the auto-bailout was shot down, is because the bailout for banks has done absolutely nothing, as everyone said it wouldn't. Now you are complaining because they are not going to blow tons more money to accomplish nothing. You liberals are never happy with anything are you?

    If we bail them out and the economy keeps tanking you whine about corporate welfare and CEOs running off with the bailout money. Now if we impose restrictions that require them to have a viable turn around plan, we're attacking the poor factory workers.

    What the heck do you want? Here's what I want. I want just one stupid ignorant liberal to grow a brain, and be logically consistent on any issue. Even one issue. That would be a shocking miracle in itself.
     
  10. top gun

    top gun New Member

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    That is very true.

    Here's the thing. What if the Democrats came back and said... Look this is ALL about your executives making way to many millions of dollars. Here's the new deal. Level 1 executive management gets a 10% reduction in pay... Level 2 gets a 20% reduction in pay... Level 3 a 30% reduction in pay... right on up to the top executive.

    And some form (probably smaller) of this absolutely should happen if the Unions have to give back on their negotiated contracts.

    The fact is all the executives would still be living large with these cuts. But the Republicans only want to Union Bust the hard working blue collar men & women workers... and maybe the Head Executive from each company just to lop off someone's head.

    It's really even worse that many of these Republican obstructionist are really just trying to protect and actually limit competition to overseas non-Union car companies set up in their home states by seeing to it that the American car companies don't get any help (a loan) to be more competitive and take back market share.

    I think even Bush will do probably something here. And woe be to the Republicans come January 20th!:eek: The American people are sooooo done with them!
     
  11. Greco

    Greco New Member

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    "And woe be to the Republicans come January 20th! The American people are sooooo done with them!"

    I agree totally, yet that point seems to elude the Republican "leadership", as they continue to pursue a course of destroying America.
     
  12. Mr. Shaman

    Mr. Shaman New Member

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    O.K., let's see the management-timelines, for all o' those companies "in the ditch".
     
  13. Greco

    Greco New Member

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    Looks like he can't support his claim with any facts.
     
  14. Andy

    Andy Well-Known Member

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    This didn't answer the point made. You never respond to the points made, then wonder why your posts are generally ignored.
     
  15. Andy

    Andy Well-Known Member

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    Did you read the stupid article? Unbelievable how shamelessly liberals lie, or are unapologetically ignorant.

    Here, let me repost exactly what the article says, because far from "debunking", it actually proves the whole point!

    [​IMG]

    The article showed conclusively that Ford, which is in the best financial position, still pays it's workers $55/hr, which is at least $10/hr over the none Union Japanese workers.

    HOWEVER, because of Union contracted legacy cost, it costs another $15 per hour over that... resulting in the universally known $70 dollar per hour mark. The Article did not debunk anything. It proved the exact point everyone has been making.

    Oh and by the way, did you ever wonder why they choose to look at Ford, who is in the best shape, instead of comparing GM which is in the worst? Hint, it's called 'media basis'.

    Next time read your own sources. You look plain stupid now. You are right up there with "Republicans vote against Mothersday" and Shamans Ann Coulter quotes.

    Absolute stupidity.... and amazingly contradictory to everything the other liberals have been saying. If you listened to the likes of Top Gun, you'd think that Honda produces the best most wonderful god sent machines on the planet, that Toyota was literally a holy manufacturer.

    Yet here you claim if people are paid less they will produce crap? But wait... the sacred auto makers from the East, pay their people less. So how do you figure this?

    Whoa whoa whoa, you just said the other bailout didn't have any restrictions on CEOs, now it does, but the Republicans fought against it? Idiocy.

    Here's a quote from the ranking Republican on the Senate banking committee:

    Yes Pualson was against it, but Republicans were not.

    I have no interest in justifying it. I was against the Barack Bail-outs to begin with. Read this...


    In other words, the republicans were against letting CEOs walk off with your tax money for more than democrats were. The conservative plan was to have a market based solution that left the risk and rewards, ultimately in the hands of private business. In other words, the CEOs, if they got any money, would be their own.

    Instead, we went the democrap way of handing out your tax money to them, and they happily went off with it, while you gripe about some restrictions on pay. Oh well gee... that went well. The economy is still crappy, the CEOs are still walking off with $700 billion of our money, and you are still trying to blame republicans for your own stupidity. Is this Obama's 'hope and change' you kept telling us about?

    You just proved BigRob's point about Fishman not being the one who drove WaMu into the ground. That was his whole point, and you just provided the evidence you claimed he didn't have. Can't you see who ignorant this is?

    But let's move on...
    This is why Bailouts are bad. The CEO came into his office, successfully convinced some government air heads to give him money, and left with it.... and you want to blame Republicans which were opposed to the bailout to begin with? This is your 'hope and change'?

    I'm convinced more and more, liberals are like ten-year-olds that refuse to accept responsibility for what they themselves did.

    Now, Timmy, what did you do?
    "It wasn't me! It was Bobby! He made me hit my sister!"

    Hey... grow up you liberals. Time to own up for your mistakes.
     
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