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Bama Cops Canned

Discussion in 'U.S. Politics' started by Bunz, May 21, 2009.

  1. Bunz

    Bunz New Member

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    Hi Folks,

    I saw this on CNN, about some good old Alabama Law Enforcement. Firstly, the entire situation is sketchy. I would be interested in seeing some clips for the first 99/100s of the chase.
    http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/05/20/alabama.police.beating/index.html

    But what the cops did to an obviously unconcious and otherwise immobile suspect, much less a continuing threat was WRONG. It is not to often I second guess first responders, but this I think was uncalled for. I also agree with the Mayor in his statements. That there was otherwise excellent police work shown in the video up until the last 15 seconds or so. What happened then, is shameful.

    I in NO way condone the actions or think the suspect is an angel. In fact I agree with the attempted murder charges, and that the guy should be locked away for a long time. But I dont think he deserves to be struck in the head and torso a number of times after he was left motionless.
     
  2. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    A mate of mine was involved in a high speed chase and nattering about it in the pub said that the adrenaline levels just got so high during the chase that when they de-camped from the car and ran after the guy they too lamped into the runaway - he said it was just like a red mist came over him for a few seconds.....loss of self control.....bad form!
     
  3. Bunz

    Bunz New Member

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    I dont disagree Scotty, I realize that tensions mount and emotions run high. Especially after an intense chase and having seen him swerve towards a fellow officer and seriously injure or kill that cop laying the spike strips.

    The response that I saw from the time the suspect was thrown from the vehicle was horrible. Not a single person checked for a vital sign, for all they knew, they were striking a dead body.

    Then there is the officer with the slightly different colored uniform. Who kneels at the suspects head and delivers multiple blows after it was obvious that he was at the very least unconcious.
     
  4. pocketfullofshells

    pocketfullofshells Well-Known Member

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    whats sad is that its not a uncommmon thing even,
     
  5. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    ..........yeah! all to often here in the UK as well!
     
  6. Bunz

    Bunz New Member

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    I mean is it really? Did you watch the video? I know there have been some instances in the past, historically and of course a few notables like the Rodney King situation. Take a minute and watch it again.


    Now granted the circumstances leading up to the events are different. But the actions on behalf of the police officers, having overwhelming numerical advantage, repeatedly strike an otherwise defenseless/non-resistant perp.

    I hope that some serious criminal charges are brought up against the officers who participated.

    All of that being said...I disagree that police brutality is not uncommon. I would suggest just the opposite, that police brutality is quite uncommon. The far majority of police officers in America are not jack booted thugs. Quite the opposite actually.
     
  7. Bunz

    Bunz New Member

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    You see there is also a notable cultural difference between here and there when it comes to armed police. Granted I havent been to the UK, I have spent quite a bit of time in Australia. Where the situation is generally the same or similar in that most of the average police officers do not carry a sidearm while on duty.

    Firstly, in America...that would be undreamable. Most officers are required to pack even when off duty. So American police pretty much always have the choice of bringing a firearm into the situation. While this leads to more deaths towards suspects, it probably also lessens the amount of other fights and violent confrontations between cops and civilians overall.
    (Meaning that less people will fight knowing the other has a gun)

    I am sure I am taking a simplistic view of the situation. But I do like seeing the Euro Cops on TV. Its a wonder they are able to catch anyone with those uniforms on.
    Hey Kids!
    Want to not get caught smoking behind the school house? Just watch out for the guy wearing a shirt that will reflect from a reading light out of a 737 at 30,000ft.
    [​IMG]
     
  8. PLC1

    PLC1 Moderator Staff Member

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    Attacking a man who has been thrown from a vehicle and is lying unconscious beside the road is never justifiable.

    The cops who did this were fired, as well they should have been. Police need to be in control of themselves if they are to be in control of a bad situation.
     
  9. Bunz

    Bunz New Member

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    Charges anyone? If so which?
    If not...Why?
     
  10. Andy

    Andy Well-Known Member

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    Really? I'm curious what you would consider common? As of 2004, there are roughly 675,700 sworn police officers in the US. I wonder what percentage actually have committed anything like this.


    That said, all of you can attack me for this, but I really don't have a problem with what happened. I can see what set these officers off. This guy clearly tried to murder a police officer in the road, showing that he had absolutely no regard for human life whatsoever. He would have murdered anyone to try and escape. Why are we defending someone what would have run us over in an instant given the chance?

    The police officers were obviously reacting to directly seeing one of their own officers nearly get killed by this scum bag. However I do understand that police should maintain a professional conduct which they did not.

    The worst part about this is, this would be murderer will likely be back on the road at some point.
     
  11. PLC1

    PLC1 Moderator Staff Member

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    If you or I did the same thing that the officers did, we'd be prosecuted for aggravated assault. The passion of the moment defense would mitigate the punishment, no doubt, but we'd be prosecuted and convicted. If the guy died, it would be called second degree murder, probably downgraded to manslaughter of some degree or other, with the crime of passion defense serving to mitigate the punishment, but not excuse it.

    Why should the police officers be treated any differently?

    Could we use the defense that the person needed killing? Wasn't that used in a novel? I'm sure it wouldn't work in real life.

    I can understand why they did what they did, but that doesn't make it right.
     
  12. TruthAboveAll

    TruthAboveAll Active Member

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    Bunz, just a side comment before I opine on this incident - I have come to respect you for your thoughtful comments and positions for the most part, even when at polar opposites of mine. Your use of the phrase "good old Alabama Law Enforcement" is undeserved and disingenuous. Perhaps you've some credible source to justify this generalization? If you're tying this to 1965 and the tragic events of Selma, you're tying a lot of past wrongs to the current generation.

    Personally, I don't think that whether the suspect deserved a beat-down, conscious or not, is not the issue. An emphatic NO is the only reasonable answer to that question.

    Our law enforcement officers are so often on the front line, literally risking life and limb. Here's an officer from the Hoover P.D. placing spike strips to halt this chase in the same video being struck by the suspect, totally proving that point.

    Regardless if it's the result you want to have, you can expect that fellow police officers may over-react when one of their own is attacked, injured or killed. The behavior these officers exhibited must be condemned, and they are rightfully now unemployed. The investigation must be conducted to find out why it took so long for this to come out. Tim King of the Salem-News.com has an insightful treatise on this, with condemnation but without rancor.

    Police brutality is something we must continue to strive against, but also realize that it will most certainly always be there. As long as law enforcement consists of human beings, you will find that it cannot be totally eliminated.

    One incident is one too many, don't get me wrong. But with the hundreds of thousands police officers in this country, not to mention the additional law enforcement organizations, there are going to be a certain number of "bad apples."

    Strive for justice to be multi-directional, yes. Seek to minimize the frequency and intervene pre-incident whenever possible. But I fear that we are increasingly intolerant of the basic character of our fellow man, and unrealistically demanding of perfection from imperfect creatures.

    In the late 1800's police were expected and encouraged to show brutality. We've came a long way from that being the norm to where we are now. Rightfully, we are outraged when something like this happens.

    Yet I cannot help but feel a deep sadness that often many years of dedicated, excellent public service can be trashed so thoroughly by one ill-advised but often instinctual occurrence. That tragedy is, unfortunately, an inseparable part of the human equation.
     
  13. foggedinn

    foggedinn New Member

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    No, there should be no charges.

    It would be virtually impossible to find a jury in Alabama that would convict the police. That would, in the eyes of the law, justify the police actions.
     
  14. Bunz

    Bunz New Member

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    I agree, the far majority of police officers are otherwise professionals who have zero history of this sort of behavior.

    Well we might agree on a few things in this thread, but we disagree here. Again, I dont condone or defend the actions of the driver. Throw him in prison for all I care. This is more about the reaction to a situation by 5 cops, and potentially thier superiors in possibly covering up the events after the fact.
    We train and expect our police officers to be professionals. Able to set aside thier own personal feelings to conduct thier duty. The second that vehicle rolled, and the occupant ejected the role changes from chasing suspect, to attending to an injured person. It makes me wonder what would have happened if another person had been in the vehicle when it rolled and the innocent party was knocked unconcious and then beaten by the police.
    As I said in my OP, I often times give people in those very intense situations more discression and limit my second guessing of thier actions. But would this have been a private citizen, or somehow the tables were turned, I think it highly likely that charges up to and including attempted murder would be likely.
    I doubt it, well at least not for a very long time. He plead guilty to aggravated assault and recieved 20 years. Interesting to note, he was never charged for a crime concerning the actual reasons he was pulled over for in the first place.
    http://cbs5.com/national/unconscious.man.beaten.2.1015914.html
     
  15. pocketfullofshells

    pocketfullofshells Well-Known Member

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    of couse you dont care, I doubt anyone is shocked. I mean why should we expect cops to not beat people who are knocked out. Its after all cops jobs to deal out justice, not the courts. Lets just let cops shoot anyone they want, make life easy, cops with no rules no laws, just do what they think is best....
     
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