Be Afraid. Be Very Afraid.

[Dr.Who]

Many of the ultra-pro gun crowd have no distinctions. They seem to believe they need a weapon everywhere they go, and no place in inappropriate.

Are you perhaps arguing agaist a position that very few actually believe. Isn't it more likely that the pro gun people hold a much more reasonable and subtle view? You need only find some mainstream statements by pro-gun advocates to make your case. Obviously there are some wack jobs in every crowd. Let's agree that we need not concern ourselves with the fringes.

 

[always]

GUNS!! , GUNS!! GUNS!!-- Yes, every red blooded American needs to own GUNS. Learn how to shoot and defend your person and family. America is in GRAVE DANGER.We have much more to FEAR from our presnt Government than we do any foreign power . Last November 2008 our very own citizens, duped by a hostile news media , placed in our Whitehouse a person we did not really know at the time . However , in the past six months we have seen his very ugly desires. He has taken over major industries , Banks , Mortage companies , he has placed CORRUPT UNION goons into places of power . He has named CAZARS to postions of influence . These CZARS are Communists , Socialists , radical ANTI -AMERICAN hoodlums . So far at least 36 have been named , they report to no one , they roam around and do as they want to harm America . High officials in our FEDERAL BANKING SYSTEM have been placed there by Obama . His sameful attempt to take ove the NATIONS HEALTH CARE and CONTROL the daily lives of every CITIZEN reminds me of the dark days of Germany in the 1930's. Folks , this government is not ready to protect you but they are planning to ENSLAVE us all. THINK!

 

[Greco]

"Isn't it more likely that the pro gun people hold a much more reasonable and subtle view?"

Bringing a fully loaded pistol to a town hall meeting is reasonable and subtle? Brinking a a fully loaded, semi-automatic assault rifle to a town hall meeting is reasonable and subtle? Gosh, who knew?

 

[Greco]

"Folks , this government is not ready to protect you but they are planning to ENSLAVE us all. THINK!"

You might want to consider loosening your tin-foil hat a bit. The increased blood flow might be helpful.

 

[TheFranklinParty]

There were actually US Marshal back then as well.

Even after the creation of more than 50 specialized federal law enforcement agencies during the 20th century, the Marshals retained the broadest jurisdiction and authority. For over 200 years now, U.S. Marshals and their Deputies have served as the instruments of civil authority used by all three branches of government. Marshals have been involved in most of the major historical episodes in America's past.

The point Greco was making and making correctly is that there have been many actual cases over the years where guns were not allowed in town and it almost completely ended the gun violence in those towns.

Same thing with outlawing fully automatic weapons. That cut down to almost nothing the tommy gun killings that were very prevalent before the ban.

And before you ask... I've owned a ton of guns including a Thompson semi-auto, M1 Carbine and AR15. And still today own 2 handguns a Beretta model 70s .380 and a Dan Wesson pistol pack .357 magnum.

It is my understanding that U.S. Marshalls have never had any jurisdiction other than the transport of prisoners that are being extradited from one state to another. It was always a huge bone of contention as the west expanded. That is why bank robbers didn't rob banks in their home state. They couldn't be arrested, because there was no federal jurisdiction.

Once again, in small town setting gun control has worked, especially when you can close the entry points. The problem is that when you have uncontrolled entry points there is no way of making sure that the bad guys aren't bringing weapons into the DMZ. What do you suggest, roadblocks on every point of entry into a city? If you want a modern day case study just look at Australia which went gun free and found out that criminals didn't get the memo. Every form of violent crime went up.

I'll make my point again, if you have a permit to conceal carry then it must be concealed. If it is out in the open you go to jail. If that isn't happening then it is all about selling papers and we should ignore it.

 

[top gun]

It is my understanding that U.S. Marshalls have never had any jurisdiction other than the transport of prisoners that are being extradited from one state to another. It was always a huge bone of contention as the west expanded. That is why bank robbers didn't rob banks in their home state. They couldn't be arrested, because there was no federal jurisdiction.

Then you "understand" incorrectly.

1815 U.S. Marshals work as police against pirates and the territory gained through the Louisiana Purchase that later became a state. Louisiana Purchase

1865-1900 The various labor disputes of the late 1800's caused civil disturbances where U.S. Marshals were called upon to maintain law and order as an alternative to military intervention.

1882 U.S. Marshals tried to keep law and order in the old west. Four Deputy U.S. Marshals Virgil Earp, Morgan Earp, Wyatt Earp and Doc Holiday participated in a gunfight at the OK Corral.

1888 Animosities between Republicans and Democrats peaked in violent outbreaks at the polls and tampering with ballots. U.S. Marshals upheld the Constitution by controlling disturbances at voting sites and preserving the citizen's right to vote.

1889 U.S. Marshals helped maintain law and order in the Oklahoma Territory.

1894 During the Pullman strike, U.S. Marshals were ordered by the federal courts and the Cleveland administration to keep the trains rolling.

1896 The Justice Department created salaries for Marshals. Before that, a Marshal received $2.00 for any outlaw he brought in alive. However, if an outlaw were killed during his capture, the Marshal received no compensation and was responsible for the burial fee for the dead prisoner.

1920 Until the Treasury Department created the Bureau of Prohibitions in

1927, the U.S. Marshals were the enforcing agents of the Prohibition laws that forbid liquor. Prohibition

Once again, in small town setting gun control has worked, especially when you can close the entry points. The problem is that when you have uncontrolled entry points there is no way of making sure that the bad guys aren't bringing weapons into the DMZ. What do you suggest, roadblocks on every point of entry into a city? If you want a modern day case study just look at Australia which went gun free and found out that criminals didn't get the memo. Every form of violent crime went up.

I'll make my point again, if you have a permit to conceal carry then it must be concealed. If it is out in the open you go to jail. If that isn't happening then it is all about selling papers and we should ignore it.

You simply make it an arrestable offense... especially around political gatherings (much like it is in bars). Like any law you won't catch everybody but actual arrest will remove some and fear of arrest will remove many more.

It pares the problem down to a much, much smaller and more manageable number.

 

[Dr.Who]

"Isn't it more likely that the pro gun people hold a much more reasonable and subtle view?"

Bringing a fully loaded pistol to a town hall meeting is reasonable and subtle? Brinking a a fully loaded, semi-automatic assault rifle to a town hall meeting is reasonable and subtle? Gosh, who knew?

You have yet to support you view. What mainstream gun rights advocate wants people to bring fully loaded semi auto assault rifles to town hall meetings? could it be - none? IN which case your whole argument becomes a strawman.

 

[dahermit]

Then you "understand" incorrectly.

1815 U.S. Marshals work as police against pirates and the territory gained through the Louisiana Purchase that later became a state. Louisiana Purchase

1865-1900 The various labor disputes of the late 1800's caused civil disturbances where U.S. Marshals were called upon to maintain law and order as an alternative to military intervention.

1882 U.S. Marshals tried to keep law and order in the old west. Four Deputy U.S. Marshals Virgil Earp, Morgan Earp, Wyatt Earp and Doc Holiday participated in a gunfight at the OK Corral.

1888 Animosities between Republicans and Democrats peaked in violent outbreaks at the polls and tampering with ballots. U.S. Marshals upheld the Constitution by controlling disturbances at voting sites and preserving the citizen's right to vote.

1889 U.S. Marshals helped maintain law and order in the Oklahoma Territory.

1894 During the Pullman strike, U.S. Marshals were ordered by the federal courts and the Cleveland administration to keep the trains rolling.

1896 The Justice Department created salaries for Marshals. Before that, a Marshal received $2.00 for any outlaw he brought in alive. However, if an outlaw were killed during his capture, the Marshal received no compensation and was responsible for the burial fee for the dead prisoner.

1920 Until the Treasury Department created the Bureau of Prohibitions in

1927, the U.S. Marshals were the enforcing agents of the Prohibition laws that forbid liquor. Prohibition



You simply make it an arrestable offense... especially around political gatherings (much like it is in bars). Like any law you won't catch everybody but actual arrest will remove some and fear of arrest will remove many more.

It pares the problem down to a much, much smaller and more manageable number.

Inasmuch as this is all very interesting, Wyatt Earp was never a U.S. Marshal. His brother Virgil was town Marshal in Tombstone, his brother Wyatt was only a deputy of the town Marshal. Doc Holiday had no legal standing to carry a gun in Tombstone.
http://www.desertusa.com/mag98/mar/papr/du_earp.html
The effectiveness of a no guns carried in town ordinance is merely conjecture this many years after the fact. Consider that the very basics of the famous fight have been disputed for years due to one of the two town newspapers taking the Earps' side, and the other one claimed that the men known as "The Cowboys" were shot down in cold blood. If that were so, than the Earps were the crimminals.

One can question whether there was a "people shot with guns" problem at all. In those times guns were frequently fired into the air in celebration and revelry. It may have been a matter of perception rather than a real bloody reality. It was noisy, and certainly frightening to the citizens and would have prompted the ordnance against the carrying of guns.

Nevertheless, one can wonder how many cowboys just hid a gun under their shirts while in town. Unless "patted down" by deputies, no one would have known.