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Big Three Autos

Discussion in 'U.S. Politics' started by Unite Our Nation, Nov 11, 2008.

  1. Unite Our Nation

    Unite Our Nation New Member

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    Who believes that we taxpayers should bail them out with no strings attached? Or at all?

    Their balance sheet shows them $57Million in the hole. They are asking for another $25M on top of the existing $25M. The problem is structured the way they are, they can't compete. Further, every small car they sell is sold at a loss. This was true even before the credit mess arose.

    They actually expect us, approx 140Million taxpayers, to pay for the retirement shortage of 300,000 UAW workers? What about everyone else's retirement? Pleeease. This is asinine and self-centered to even ask.

    Let them file bankruptcy and come out the other end more able to compete in the global market!!
     
  2. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

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    not me, I am sick of these bail outs. They are not working and only getting us further and further in debt
     
  3. Unite Our Nation

    Unite Our Nation New Member

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    Have you noticed that obama is trying to push President Bush into doing it? Yeah, that way he can have is usual out...Bush did it! But, I am with you...let them fail, we don't have the money anymore!
     
  4. BigRob

    BigRob Well-Known Member

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    I would say if they are only $57,000,000 in debt then who cares, it would cost us all $0.50 to bail them out. The problem is they are in debt in the billions with no sign of turning a profit anytime soon.

    So given that, I say let them fail. Foreign automakers build cars in the United States too and they are not collapsing. What is it with the American companies?
     
  5. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

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    yes I saw that, he wants bush to authorize the bail out so the spending goes on bush's record not obama's, and obama will spend the next 4 years blaming bush for the bad state of our situation. I say if the jerk off wants to bail something out he should do it on Jan 21st 2009

    Did you also notice that the private things said between bush and obama, obama is leaking out. this man has no respect for the office that morons stupidly have placed him into.
     
  6. Unite Our Nation

    Unite Our Nation New Member

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    Rob, you are probably correct. It was probably $57Billion I read, not million. *sigh*

    The reason they are failing is their model. You can't compete when you have the UAW drowning you! If they fail, they will be able to re-organize and start new without the weight of the UAW. The wages would be competitive with other auto workers here in the states. There wouldn't be the immense burden of large retirements they have now.

    Remember Delta? The pilots had at minimum $1M each in retirement automatically. Reorg did away with a lot of that!
     
  7. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

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    I think unions are one of the big reasons for the car companies to fail
     
  8. Sihouette

    Sihouette Active Member

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    [​IMG]

    The 2000 volt lays in piles in the desert. Meanwhile...

    The 2008 Hummer, after many improvements, gets a whopping combined MPG of 15.

    The Toyota Prius gets EPA City rating of 48 MPG. That's its low-end on mileage.

    In business 101 we leared that staying competitive in current markets is paramount to the life of a business.

    It isn't rocket science. GM and others opted for gas guzzlers and pushed them with aggressive marketing at at time when their researchers knew the demand was for fuel efficiency, and that gas prices would soon soar out of buyer's budgets.

    In other words, in the interest of short-term profiteering, in partnership with evil BigOil, our auto manufacturers slit their own throats. Now they want the very consumers they hornswaggled to bail their butts out.

    Nay I say.. Sell the plants to worker coops who will produce competitive vehicles with the Prius. We're about 20 years overdue for that.
     
  9. BigRob

    BigRob Well-Known Member

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    Business 101 should have also taught you that you cannot sell a car there is no demand for. Gas prices and consumer demand for these cars did not dictate their creation, which is why they were scrapped.

    When gas prices went up, the situation changed. But putting everything into context, which you do not like I know, shows us that there was simply no demand for these cars at the time they were rolled out. It was not some vast conspiracy, it was simply supply and demand. The hummer won out because it is what people wanted to drive, not because "BigOil" made them do it.
     
  10. Sihouette

    Sihouette Active Member

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    Well, if you're going to tell a lie, you might as well make it a whopper Bigrob..

    :rolleyes:
    Annnnnnnddddd....

    Not be filing for bankruptcy right now. The time to R&D the new products is 10 years before when they're projected to be in demand. Like now. They knew about the impending oil crises 40 years ago..

    Next excuse?
     
  11. BigRob

    BigRob Well-Known Member

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    I will point out again that if I make 100 cars and 500 people want them, and it takes me a year to turn out 50, that is a pretty lengthy waiting list. But the overall demand for the product remains non-existent.

    Your article points out the flaw that killed the electric car at the time. It failed to turn a profit. Your piece then goes on to say "in hindsight maybe that was a bad idea." At the time however, it made no sense to continue a program that was not turning a profit, because no one wanted the cars.
     
  12. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

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    Its very simple, you can make a billion of something but if NO ONE WANTS IT
    then NO ONE IS GOING TO BUY IT and you will not make money, thus your company will close (or get a bail out)


    how can anyone not understand that
     
  13. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    for those in favour of allowing these comapnies to fail, just a thought you may wish to ponder on guys.....the mention of USD50billion debt was muted. Has anyone any idea to whom this outrageous debt is owed...... and what will happen to those creditors should these company be allowed to fail?

    What about the workers pension rights, health care and so on............as I said, just a thought
     
  14. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

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    I dont know but we cant keep doing this. Maybe if the companies close they can be forced to pay the workers their retirment money up front even before big wigs get theirs.

    I knew a lady who worked for GM, she made 28 dollars an hour to stand at an assembly line. I dont know but if you are paying that kind of money and giving all the OT you want and good medical and retirement bennys and you have a huge number of employees, the chances are your company wont make it?
     
  15. Rhodri

    Rhodri New Member

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    The problem is, 1 out of every 9 American jobs are somehow related to U.S. auto industry.
     
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