Big Three Autos

[Unite Our Nation]

Who believes that we taxpayers should bail them out with no strings attached? Or at all?

Their balance sheet shows them $57Million in the hole. They are asking for another $25M on top of the existing $25M. The problem is structured the way they are, they can't compete. Further, every small car they sell is sold at a loss. This was true even before the credit mess arose.

They actually expect us, approx 140Million taxpayers, to pay for the retirement shortage of 300,000 UAW workers? What about everyone else's retirement? Pleeease. This is asinine and self-centered to even ask.

Let them file bankruptcy and come out the other end more able to compete in the global market!!

 

[Pandora]

not me, I am sick of these bail outs. They are not working and only getting us further and further in debt

 

[Unite Our Nation]

Have you noticed that obama is trying to push President Bush into doing it? Yeah, that way he can have is usual out...Bush did it! But, I am with you...let them fail, we don't have the money anymore!

 

[BigRob]

Who believes that we taxpayers should bail them out with no strings attached? Or at all?

Their balance sheet shows them $57Million in the hole. They are asking for another $25M on top of the existing $25M. The problem is structured the way they are, they can't compete. Further, every small car they sell is sold at a loss. This was true even before the credit mess arose.

They actually expect us, approx 140Million taxpayers, to pay for the retirement shortage of 300,000 UAW workers? What about everyone else's retirement? Pleeease. This is asinine and self-centered to even ask.

Let them file bankruptcy and come out the other end more able to compete in the global market!!

I would say if they are only $57,000,000 in debt then who cares, it would cost us all $0.50 to bail them out. The problem is they are in debt in the billions with no sign of turning a profit anytime soon.

So given that, I say let them fail. Foreign automakers build cars in the United States too and they are not collapsing. What is it with the American companies?

 

[Pandora]

Have you noticed that obama is trying to push President Bush into doing it? Yeah, that way he can have is usual out...Bush did it! But, I am with you...let them fail, we don't have the money anymore!

yes I saw that, he wants bush to authorize the bail out so the spending goes on bush's record not obama's, and obama will spend the next 4 years blaming bush for the bad state of our situation. I say if the jerk off wants to bail something out he should do it on Jan 21st 2009

Did you also notice that the private things said between bush and obama, obama is leaking out. this man has no respect for the office that morons stupidly have placed him into.

 

[Unite Our Nation]

Rob, you are probably correct. It was probably $57Billion I read, not million. *sigh*

The reason they are failing is their model. You can't compete when you have the UAW drowning you! If they fail, they will be able to re-organize and start new without the weight of the UAW. The wages would be competitive with other auto workers here in the states. There wouldn't be the immense burden of large retirements they have now.

Remember Delta? The pilots had at minimum $1M each in retirement automatically. Reorg did away with a lot of that!

 

[Pandora]

I think unions are one of the big reasons for the car companies to fail

 

[Sihouette]

So given that, I say let them fail. Foreign automakers build cars in the United States too and they are not collapsing. What is it with the American companies?~ Bigrob

The 2000 volt lays in piles in the desert. Meanwhile...

The 2008 Hummer, after many improvements, gets a whopping combined MPG of 15.

The Toyota Prius gets EPA City rating of 48 MPG. That's its low-end on mileage.

In business 101 we leared that staying competitive in current markets is paramount to the life of a business.

It isn't rocket science. GM and others opted for gas guzzlers and pushed them with aggressive marketing at at time when their researchers knew the demand was for fuel efficiency, and that gas prices would soon soar out of buyer's budgets.

In other words, in the interest of short-term profiteering, in partnership with evil BigOil, our auto manufacturers slit their own throats. Now they want the very consumers they hornswaggled to bail their butts out.

Nay I say.. Sell the plants to worker coops who will produce competitive vehicles with the Prius. We're about 20 years overdue for that.

 

[BigRob]

The 2000 volt lays in piles in the desert. Meanwhile...

The 2008 Hummer, after many improvements, gets a whopping combined MPG of 15.

The Toyota Prius gets EPA City rating of 48 MPG. That's its low-end on mileage.

In business 101 we leared that staying competitive in current markets is paramount to the life of a business.

It isn't rocket science. GM and others opted for gas guzzlers and pushed them with aggressive marketing at at time when their researchers knew the demand was for fuel efficiency, and that gas prices would soon soar out of buyer's budgets.

In other words, in the interest of short-term profiteering, in partnership with evil BigOil, our auto manufacturers slit their own throats. Now they want the very consumers they hornswaggled to bail their butts out.

Nay I say.. Sell the plants to worker coops who will produce competitive vehicles with the Prius. We're about 20 years overdue for that.

Business 101 should have also taught you that you cannot sell a car there is no demand for. Gas prices and consumer demand for these cars did not dictate their creation, which is why they were scrapped.

When gas prices went up, the situation changed. But putting everything into context, which you do not like I know, shows us that there was simply no demand for these cars at the time they were rolled out. It was not some vast conspiracy, it was simply supply and demand. The hummer won out because it is what people wanted to drive, not because "BigOil" made them do it.

 

[Sihouette]

Well, if you're going to tell a lie, you might as well make it a whopper Bigrob..

Introduced in 1996, The EV1 electric cars were available in California and Arizona as a lease only, as well as through a Southern Company employee lease program in Georgia, and could be serviced at designated Saturn retailers. They were discontinued after 1999 and subsequently removed from the roads in 2003 by General Motors (except for a few). The car's discontinuation was and remains a controversial topic...

...In December 1999, GM released approximately 200 of the new Generation Two 1999 EV1s with the new nickel metal hydride battery. Over the next 8 months, the remaining 257 Generation Two EV1s were released to certain selected lessees which initiated a lengthy waiting list.[4] In mid 2000, GM closed the EV1 plant. A total of 457 Generation Two EV1s were produced and all were eventually leased....

...In late 2003, GM officially canceled the EV1 program.[12][13] GM stated that it could not sell enough of the cars to make the EV1 profitable. However according to GM Chairman and CEO Rick Wagoner, the worst decision of his tenure at GM was "axing the EV1 electric-car program and not putting the right resources into hybrids. It didn’t affect profitability, but it did affect image."[14] According to the March 13, 2007, issue of Newsweek, "GM R&D chief Larry Burns . . . now wishes GM hadn't killed the plug-in hybrid EV1 prototype his engineers had on the road a decade ago: 'If we could turn back the hands of time,' says Burns, 'we could have had the Chevy Volt 10 years earlier.'"[15]~

Annnnnnnddddd....

Not be filing for bankruptcy right now. The time to R&D the new products is 10 years before when they're projected to be in demand. Like now. They knew about the impending oil crises 40 years ago..

Next excuse?

 

[BigRob]

Well, if you're going to tell a lie, you might as well make it a whopper Bigrob..

I will point out again that if I make 100 cars and 500 people want them, and it takes me a year to turn out 50, that is a pretty lengthy waiting list. But the overall demand for the product remains non-existent.

Your article points out the flaw that killed the electric car at the time. It failed to turn a profit. Your piece then goes on to say "in hindsight maybe that was a bad idea." At the time however, it made no sense to continue a program that was not turning a profit, because no one wanted the cars.

 

[Pandora]

Its very simple, you can make a billion of something but if NO ONE WANTS IT
then NO ONE IS GOING TO BUY IT and you will not make money, thus your company will close (or get a bail out)


how can anyone not understand that

 

[The Scotsman]

for those in favour of allowing these comapnies to fail, just a thought you may wish to ponder on guys.....the mention of USD50billion debt was muted. Has anyone any idea to whom this outrageous debt is owed...... and what will happen to those creditors should these company be allowed to fail?

What about the workers pension rights, health care and so on............as I said, just a thought

 

[Pandora]

for those in favour of allowing these comapnies to fail, just a thought you may wish to ponder on guys.....the mention of USD50billion debt was muted. Has anyone any idea to whom this outrageous debt is owed...... and what will happen to those creditors should these company be allowed to fail?

What about the workers pension rights, health care and so on............as I said, just a thought

I dont know but we cant keep doing this. Maybe if the companies close they can be forced to pay the workers their retirment money up front even before big wigs get theirs.

I knew a lady who worked for GM, she made 28 dollars an hour to stand at an assembly line. I dont know but if you are paying that kind of money and giving all the OT you want and good medical and retirement bennys and you have a huge number of employees, the chances are your company wont make it?

 

[Rhodri]

The problem is, 1 out of every 9 American jobs are somehow related to U.S. auto industry.