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Bush tax cuts benefited both poor and you

Discussion in 'U.S. Politics' started by Dr.Who, Jun 9, 2009.

  1. Dr.Who

    Dr.Who Well-Known Member

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    Ok the data is now in and here it is:


    "Since the passage of the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts, critics have claimed incessantly that they disproportionately benefited the rich while burdening the poor. Now that the data is in, these claims have been shown to be unquestionably false.

    According to a report issued by the Congressional Budget Office (CBO), the tax cuts significantly increased the share of federal income taxes paid by the highest-earning 20 percent of households compared to their levels in 2000, President Clinton's final year in office.

    * The bottom 20 percent of income earners' share of federal income taxes fell from -1.6 percent in 2000 to -2.8 percent in 2006;
    * The next 20 percent's share declined from 1.1 percent to -0.8 percent;
    * The middle quintile's share dropped from 5.7 percent to 4.4 percent; and
    * The fourth quintile's share decreased from 13.5 percent to 12.9 percent.

    Each of these four quintiles' shares was an all-time low."

    http://www.heritage.org/Research/Taxes/wm2420.cfm

    Everybody was helped by the tax cuts and the poor were helped the most.
     
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  2. samsara15

    samsara15 Member

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    The highest 20%? My taxes have gone up, from Reagan onward. That's OK, I'm well off and willing to pay the bill for the less fortunate. I wouldn't not even mind if Obama does raise taxes significantly, on the top 20%. Why not?
     
  3. top gun

    top gun New Member

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    Well first let me say GOOD ON YA... for being well off and still on the side of a progressive income tax system.

    That's called thinking of everybody and not just yourself. Wanting to see important programs like programs for our American elderly funded and all the other things that make America such a great place to live.

    The obvious point that the Conservatives always try to cloak is that when the higher brackets get the same cut as the middle & lower ones the actual amount of money they save is HUGE compared to what those earning much less get.

    That's why we have a progressive income tax system in the first place!!! Because if you tax everybody percentage wise "equally" the amount of money needed to run the government, it's programs and our defense system would cause millions more to be much poorer and many would sink into out right poverty.

    The other thing is tax shelters. Can everyone on the Right just be even a little bit honest on this one. How many big tax shelters are there and are used for people making say 50k per year or less? Mostly it's the deduction for mortgage interest. Then go down to someone making 20K per year. They probably have to rent. So even that's not available.

    Now how about the person making 250K on up to millions per year. Come on Righties... do you really want to say that you believe the only tax shelter they really have is their home mortgage deduction.

    Yes they pay in a higher tax bracket. Yes because they make a lot more the actual dollar amount paid in taxes is much more... but they have a lot of shelters the regular middle and lower class family never even see.

    That's just the truth...
     
  4. Dr.Who

    Dr.Who Well-Known Member

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    There is nothing wrong with wanting to help people with your money. But a progressive tax code is immoral because it forces people who have other ideas on how to spend their own money to divert it into government programs that are often no better than no program at all.

    Without a progressive system the rich would still pay more but it would be fair. With a progressive system the rich pay more and it is not fair.
    The people who are being selfish are those that are voting for special interest groups instead of just demanding fairness in taxation.

    Well that is obviously true and that is the way it should be. If you paid in more then when you get a refund you get back more. No one is hiding that as it is the way it should be. Fair.
    That is sadly shortsighted. When you tax the rich more they just pass it on to the other people anyway. the middle class and the poor "pay" just as much as they would in a fair system one way or the other. The only difference is in a progressive system they don't know how much they are paying. They would be much better off with a fair system in which they know how much they pay than with an unfair progressive system that screws them on the back end.
    If there were as many tax shelters as you imagine then the tax system would not be progressive. and if you were right about a non-progressive system not being able to run government then the government would not be funded right now. But the truth is that the system is progressive and there are not huge significant shelters. The rich do pay more right now even with whatever shelters they have.
    The mortgage deduction is hardly a tool of the rich. It is the tool of most Americans. And one is much better off to take the standard deduction (available equally to all) for doing nothing than to take the mortgage deduction by paying mortgage interest.
    Well you did not name any.
    Yes they pay in a higher tax bracket. Yes because they make a lot more the actual dollar amount paid in taxes is much more... but they have a lot of shelters the regular middle and lower class family never even see.

    That's just the truth... [/COLOR][/QUOTE]

    You still didn't name any for us to discuss.
     
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  5. samsara15

    samsara15 Member

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    If we had fairness in taxation, the well off would be taxed even more heavily, like they are in European nations. Those who receive the most benefits from society have an obligation to return more to society than the less fortunate.
     
  6. Dr.Who

    Dr.Who Well-Known Member

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    You have a crazy idea of fair. Fair is equal protection under the law. Unfair is gov takes more from some people and then plays footsie with them in back rooms. Stop uncle sam from taking more from some and you will take away uncle sam's ability to screw the rest of us when we are not looking.

    I agree that to whom much is given much is expected. But it is wrong for government to take it away. The rich should and do give back quite a lot voluntarily.
     
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