Cash for Clunkers is silly

[Pandora]

Now the Obama Administration is afraid to publicly disclose the stats on Cash for Clunkers.
Some are speculating more than 60% of the cash is going to foreign car companies.

According to data floating around Capitol Hill, the top five cars being purchased under the program are: 1. Ford Focus, 2. Toyota Corolla, 3. Honda Civic, 4. Toyota Prius and 5. Toyota Camry. Some folks are noting sourly that four of the top five models are made by Japanese companies.

It's speculation at this point. But since Obama's administration is anytime but honest
and forthcoming with this data, we will have to wait to see the facts.

It's bad enough we have to pay for clunkers, but now the money
may be going to Japan?

By the way the Democrats want to push more money into the program without any disclosure or questions.

That was on the news. We are going to learn about it sooner or later so why bother trying to hide it.

 

[Dr.Who]

LOVE IT doesn't even begin to cover it.

Look at this immediate influx of cash into our economy that was just sitting on the sidelines just a few days ago.

Think of this. They've already run out of a billion dollars and 2 more billion is on the way. See how many times $4000 (the average between $3500 & $4500) goes into 3 billion. That's 750,000 new cars sold right here in America.

Now figure every car sold retails for an average of say 4 times the Cash for Clunkers rebate or $16,000 total (and this is probably a low average cost). So take away the $4000 rebate from a $16,000 per car purchase and then times that $12,000 customer cash per car by the 750,000 brand new cars sold.

THAT'S $9,000,000,000 (NINE BILLION DOLLARS) of new customer money... not even including the rebate $3,000,000,000 that swoosh is pushed immediately into the economy and all of it is also going through probably our most struggling industry!

IS THAT FRICKIN' AWESOME OR WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We could have put 9 billion into the economy simply by giving 9 billion back to the people it was taken from in the first place. That would not have required taking money from one taxpayer and redistributing it to another one. That would also not have propped up unions.

So 750,000 cars were retired at a cost of billions? In Japan alone the free market retires 5.3 million cars per year at zero cost to the taxpayers. Assuming that the US retires at least 50 times the cars that Japan retires that means that we retire 250 million cars every year at no cost.

 

[asur]

News from the AP that will not make Democrats happy:

The popular "cash-for-clunkers" program may be a well-timed shot of adrenaline for the economy, but it's not a prescription for a lasting recovery.

The federal rebates of up to $4,500 to drivers who trade in a gas guzzler for a more fuel-efficient vehicle are steering cash to car dealers, giving a boost to troubled automakers and generating much-needed sales taxes for cities.

All this will help the economy grow faster in the second half of the year than previously forecast. Yet the rebates will also steal economic growth from the future: They make car sales happen now that would have been made later anyway.

But one question remains: will car sales will ever be more than anemic without
these costly incentives?

Also: Why are taxpayers wiling to pay rich folk to buy cars that could without any help.

There are more questions of course...

 

[asur]

You have to ask yourself another simple question!

Why does my government want me to make an unwise economic
transaction anyhow?

Buying a new car is not usually the best economic decision even in good times.
Getting a loan for a depreciating asset is even less smart, and you are guaranteed to
lose that rebate in real dollars as soon as you drive the car off the lot. But the taxpayers
are gonna pay for that rebate it in real earned dollars.

Nobody mentions this in the news media, they just brag about
how well the program is working.

Do you think they are looking out for you or maybe themselves?

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

You have to ask yourself another simple question!

Why does my government want me to make an unwise economic
transaction anyhow?

Buying a new car is not usually the best economic decision even in good times.
Getting a loan for a depreciating asset is even less smart, and you are guaranteed to
lose that rebate in real dollars as soon as you drive the car off the lot. But the taxpayers
are gonna pay for that rebate it in real earned dollars.

Nobody mentions this in the news media, they just brag about
how well the program is working.

Do you think they are looking out for you or maybe themselves?

We bailed out the bankers to the tune of some tens of billions, why not use a few pennies to help REAL people get rid of beater-cars and get new ones that get better gas mileage? I don't see why you are picking on this program when so much more has been spent on propping up the banks that caused the collapse.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

We could have put 9 billion into the economy simply by giving 9 billion back to the people it was taken from in the first place. That would not have required taking money from one taxpayer and redistributing it to another one. That would also not have propped up unions.

So 750,000 cars were retired at a cost of billions? In Japan alone the free market retires 5.3 million cars per year at zero cost to the taxpayers. Assuming that the US retires at least 50 times the cars that Japan retires that means that we retire 250 million cars every year at no cost.

Billions for the bankers and pennies for the people. We've got billions more to spend killing a bunch of poor bastards in the Middle East, but we can't get medical care for Americans. We can subsidize the Fed, the banks, the oil industry, and support an insane war with no end, but we can't rebuild our own infrastructure of roads, bridges, and railroads.

People voted for Obama in the hope that he would be different from what we've been having, but it doesn't seem that he's going to be, does it? I want change, I always vote for change, but no matter who I vote for the government gets elected and it's business as usual. Time for a revolution.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

That was on the news. We are going to learn about it sooner or later so why bother trying to hide it.

What's wrong with people buying Japanese cars? If the American companies can't make good enough cars, then let them go under--isn't that how the market works? How many of those Japanese cars are made by Americans here in the US? I know a lot of Hondas are made here.

 

[top gun]

News from the AP that will not make Democrats happy:

The popular "cash-for-clunkers" program may be a well-timed shot of adrenaline for the economy, but it's not a prescription for a lasting recovery.

The federal rebates of up to $4,500 to drivers who trade in a gas guzzler for a more fuel-efficient vehicle are steering cash to car dealers, giving a boost to troubled automakers and generating much-needed sales taxes for cities.

All this will help the economy grow faster in the second half of the year than previously forecast. Yet the rebates will also steal economic growth from the future: They make car sales happen now that would have been made later anyway.

But one question remains: will car sales will ever be more than anemic without
these costly incentives?

Also: Why are taxpayers wiling to pay rich folk to buy cars that could without any help.

There are more questions of course...

Democrats are actually thrilled because we are doing just what we said we would... helping the American people and fighting back The Bush Recession!

Probably one of the best and most popular programs ever created to quickly help stimulate an economy and as a side bonus help troubled automakers & dealers get through the end of The Bush Recession...

and we sit here and watch Republicants dog it out with pure BS.

Next at bat for those same Republicants in complete and utter EXILE... President Clinton is Satan because he went and rescued the two women reporters that were being held in North Korea.

Anybody who listens knows when a Republicant smear merchant is just trying to fool you. His lips are moving.

 

[top gun]

You have to ask yourself another simple question!

Why does my government want me to make an unwise economic
transaction anyhow?

Buying a new car is not usually the best economic decision even in good times.
Getting a loan for a depreciating asset is even less smart, and you are guaranteed to
lose that rebate in real dollars as soon as you drive the car off the lot. But the taxpayers
are gonna pay for that rebate it in real earned dollars.

Nobody mentions this in the news media, they just brag about
how well the program is working.

Do you think they are looking out for you or maybe themselves?

You seriously can't stand to see something work.

It's worth it all just to see you so upset to see us gaining even more ground!

9,000,000,000 (Nine Billion) of personal money that was just sitting on the sidelines now being pumped into our economy and instead of saying... Hey that's pretty damn good... they try and smear it as a bad thing.

They truly have nothing left but made up stories.

 

[Dr.Who]

We bailed out the bankers to the tune of some tens of billions, why not use a few pennies to help REAL people get rid of beater-cars and get new ones that get better gas mileage? I don't see why you are picking on this program when so much more has been spent on propping up the banks that caused the collapse.

The simple answer would be that it is wrong to divert tax money from all of the citizens to just a few of the citizens, especially when those few are not even poor. The general welfare clause is clear that tax money must be used to benefit the general public and not just some of the public or some of the states.

It is wrong when the money was given to bankers and wrong when it was given to middle class or wealthy car car buyers and wealthy car sellers.

 

[Dr.Who]

Billions for the bankers and pennies for the people.

Both TARP and the clunkers program spent billions.

We've got billions more to spend killing a bunch of poor bastards in the Middle East,

Clearly a constitutionally allowed activity that was voted on by a bipartisan congress.

but we can't get medical care for Americans.

Every single American in this country has access to the best medical care in the world. There is not a single American in this country who lacks the ability to walk into any ER and get care. But those who rely on public aid do have poorer outcomes than those who use private insurance.

We can subsidize the Fed, the banks, the oil industry, and support an insane war with no end, but we can't rebuild our own infrastructure of roads, bridges, and railroads.

We should stop all the insane subsidies. We should declare war for the right reasons and each state should build its infrastructure as needed.

People voted for Obama in the hope that he would be different from what we've been having, but it doesn't seem that he's going to be, does it? I want change, I always vote for change, but no matter who I vote for the government gets elected and it's business as usual. Time for a revolution.

I would hope for a peaceful revolution but whatever comes it is time for it. We could start by following the constitution as designed.

 

[Pidgey]

Billions for the bankers and pennies for the people. We've got billions more to spend killing a bunch of poor bastards in the Middle East, but we can't get medical care for Americans. We can subsidize the Fed, the banks, the oil industry, and support an insane war with no end, but we can't rebuild our own infrastructure of roads, bridges, and railroads.

People voted for Obama in the hope that he would be different from what we've been having, but it doesn't seem that he's going to be, does it? I want change, I always vote for change, but no matter who I vote for the government gets elected and it's business as usual. Time for a revolution.

You're quite right about the current regime being on the side of bankers at the expense of The Little People. Personally, I don't think whoever sits in that office actually having any power to do anything--they're just figureheads.

The war in Iraq is about maintaining the world's supply of oil given the decline of the world's largest fields. There's some pretty good cheap oil sitting in there to use. Most folks in the developed world have your everyday, ordinary, basic NO EARTHLY IDEA of the role that energy plays in their lives, nor the horrendous IMPACT the loss of same would have. In point of fact, if our NET primary energy production even flatlines, we're doomed in a civilization that REQUIRES growth to maintain debt service. And, yet, this seems to be the current case, if not worse.

I know this is tough for a lot of you folks who aren't given to analyzing details (especially hard engineering numbers) to follow, but give it a try anyhow--it might help give you a sense of proportion with respect to energy:

http://www.greatchange.org/bb-answer2.html

And that ONLY applies to gasoline. It doesn't include diesel, jet fuel, coal and natural gas. If you included those, you'd have to multiply that ultimate "number of Texas-sized fields" by a factor of between 5-10 as a quickie guess.

Renewables... what to say? I've been chewing engineering economics numbers up on that stuff up until I've gotten blue in the face and haven't ultimately found a way to make it truly work. In another forum I remember somebody making some kind of silly comment about how much energy could be extracted from putting a bunch of tidal-float generators (I'm sure they've got a different name but I can't think of it at the moment and am not inclined to go looking for it) in the San Fransisco Bay Area. I thought about the problem and realized it'd be lot easier to sum up the total amount of energy that you could extract by average delta head under the Golden Gate Bridge. That is, if you average the tidal rise and fall across the total channel, you could figure on damming it and then it's a simple F=MA equation with conversion factors. Ultimately: pitiful. No appreciable return on investment. A loss.

You could put all the little p!ssant tidal-float generators in that you want and you're not going to extract any more than that which can be gotten from the channel. That's the kind of ultimate truth that I keep running into as I've been chasing renewables, which keeps leading me to the ultimate belief that we cannot sustain our per capita energy consumption, especially in the face of an increasing user-base. NOBODY... wants to hear this, not Democrats, Republicans, Independents, Libertarians, Socialists, Communists, Marxists, Atheists, Christians, Buddhists, Muslims, Existentialists, Anarchists.... who'd I miss?

 

[asur]

This is another bailout that isn't helping Americans, but rather
Foreign Governments and union workers. The cars being bought are made overseas
in most cases.

It is making wealthy car buyers and some car dealers happy, but it is not creating jobs.

Money doesn't grow on trees so this bailout comes from taxpayers.

Let's hope they can the program and let every working taxpayer in the US benefit from lower taxes.

 

[Dr.Who]

This is another bailout that isn't helping Americans, but rather
Foreign Governments and union workers. The cars being bought are made overseas
in most cases.

It is making wealthy car buyers and some car dealers happy, but it is not creating jobs.

Money doesn't grow on trees so this bailout comes from taxpayers.

Let's hope they can the program and let every working taxpayer in the US benefit from lower taxes.

It is hurting the very Americans who need help the most. anyone who will be in the market for a used car in the near future can expect to see higher prices as a result of the decreased supply of available cars. And to think that I actually read that in a newspaper! I see the tide turning.

 

[asur]

So many things wrong with this program.

The Taxpayers should not be bailing out Foreign auto companies.
The Taxpayers should not be financing rich car buyers.
It was sad and silly that many of these clunkers were scrapped in my opinion.

Never buy a GM car, never buy junk friends!