1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Discuss politics - join our community by registering for free here! HOP - the political discussion forum

Changing America to make the world happy is Not an option!

Discussion in 'World Politics' started by Pandora, Aug 18, 2008.

  1. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2008
    Messages:
    11,790
    Likes Received:
    257
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    The people's republic of Eugene
    OK I am admittedly frustrated. It’s been hard enough to get loads of complaints from Americans who don’t like America but lately it seems we are constantly fending off every other IMPERFECT country from constant attacks on how imperfect we are.


    For all the flaws America has (And there are many) we still are the greatest nation I have ever known of.

    I am getting so tired of the constant attacks from people who should be worrying about their own countries instead of ours.

    We do try to better our self and no we are not perfect. But when people are constantly attacking us while they ignore that China uses prisoners for human organs, suppresses freedom of religion, heck suppresses freedom of anything! While women still can not vote, or work in some countries, while there are still actual slaves in some nations. The focus always seems to be on those "dirty Americans"

    We are the first one everyone wants $$ and man power from in a disaster where ever it falls on the planet but we are constantly told to keep out of things. Unless of course Indonesia needs a ditch dug or money sent. They treated our men like crap when they went to help and the world was so critical that we didn’t send what they thought was enough money. If we get involved for our national security we are horrible, if we don’t get involved in giving enough money and ditch diggers, we are horrible.

    The only people who have the right to be critical of us are Americans. I don’t always agree with what other Americans say about us, but it is their country too and they have a right to say what they think is wrong with it.

    Canadians should worry about the troubles in Canada and IF they can ever straighten that mess out then they can toss some advice our way.

    People in Amsterdam should first pick up the dirty needles, get the population off heroin and clean up the freaking mess they made before they come to be critical of us.


    I could list every country and all their flaws that THEY STILL NEED TO WORK ON before they come complaining about us.

    Get the plank out of your own eye before you worry about the speck in ours.
     
  2. GenSeneca

    GenSeneca Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2008
    Messages:
    6,245
    Likes Received:
    501
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    ={CaLiCo}= HQ
    Hoorah!

    Well said...
    [​IMG]
     
  3. top gun

    top gun New Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2007
    Messages:
    4,940
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Ohio, USA
    It's not that our country is bad. Our country... it's people are very good. Everywhere I go outside of the US I always make quick friends and never hear complaints about the American people... but you do get a lot of impressions on how much they loath George Bush!

    It's our leader that has acted arrogantly and irresponsibly and people all over the world have seen that. The old saying goes... You sleep with the dogs, you wake up with their fleas!

    Now you're all itchy and daring anyone to say you have bugs Obamanation.

    Well you do have bugs. But the good news is America is about to do another round of pest extermination in less than 3 months.:)
     
  4. GenSeneca

    GenSeneca Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2008
    Messages:
    6,245
    Likes Received:
    501
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    ={CaLiCo}= HQ
    Yeah... how dumb of Bush to try for Diplomacy, sanctions, UN resolutions, International Cooperation and leaving war as a last resort... We should NEVER go to war under ANY circumstances - lest somebody become offended.
     
  5. BigRob

    BigRob Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2007
    Messages:
    7,366
    Likes Received:
    314
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    USA
    Yes, and Obama will be sent packing.
     
  6. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2008
    Messages:
    11,790
    Likes Received:
    257
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    The people's republic of Eugene
    I can accept critical things on America from you, AN AMERICAN! I just won’t accept it anymore from some one who has not got a clue what it means to be American, and certainly not from someone who wont even say what country they are from to compare the two.


    We were hated under Clinton too, there were many attacks under Clinton. Blaming Bush is not going to fix anything.

    I don’t think I can agree with your flea analogy but... I can accept it coming from you, you after all are an American and this is your nation as much as it is mine, and we both have a stake in what happens here.

    But when I read posts from people who have no idea what it means to be American blame us for all the worlds troubles and weigh us on “their” version of a moral scale, while ignoring the Chinese government take kidneys from their prisoners, while Tibet is in the state it is because of China, while in some countries people sell their kids as sex slaves and the government over looks it, where in a number of countries women can’t vote or work, and are forced to wear burkas. I get disgusted and mad.

    They should clean the crap out of their own front yard before they come snooping in our back yard.

    No one with “normal” reasoning skills could compare the atrocities done in China to anything Bush ever thought of doing in his wildest dreams as equal.
     
  7. top gun

    top gun New Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2007
    Messages:
    4,940
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Ohio, USA
    Yes George Bush & his gang are a big bunch of lovers & givers we all know that.:eek: Lying us into an endless occupation, faking documents, outing CIA Agents... these guys are the best! Hey I'll meet you half way... this group did a bang up job at fraud & trickery... bang up job!

    We go to war to protect our National Security or protect an Alli under attack. Iraq had absolutely nothing to do with 9-11. Iraq was in an International no fly zone box. Didn't see the Iraqi Navy rolling up on our shores or any missiles able to even come our way.

    You know there's a reason why George Bush has to lowest rating of any President ever. It's because it's true.
     
  8. top gun

    top gun New Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2007
    Messages:
    4,940
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Ohio, USA
    You must have missed the words "another round" as in what happened to Republican Senators & Representatives in the last election.;)
     
  9. top gun

    top gun New Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2007
    Messages:
    4,940
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Ohio, USA

    We live in a WORLD with other people. This idea that we don't need to give a care about what anyone else thinks just because we are us is the whole problem when trying to work things out diplomatically.

    To go back to your "Hitler" analogy that's what Dictators do. They could care less about world opinion... that should not be our model.

    Now we don't allow foreign countries to dictate our policy and we look out for America first but as far as working together honestly that's extremely important.


    And no we weren't hated under President Clinton. Terrorist hated the United States and the West... that's what terrorist do.

    But are you really seriously going to say you believe that the world... other governments as a whole disliked President Clinton in any way shape or form a scintilla as much as they dislike George W. Bush... come on...
     
  10. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2008
    Messages:
    2,624
    Likes Received:
    313
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    South of the Haggis Munching Line
    ....don't take it to heart as the old saying goes "you can please most of the people most of the time but you cannot please all of the poeple all of the time"

    In every country that you can think of there are people who will like and dislike the US but bad news makes money, so you will only hear the bad news i.e. those that make the most noise!

    .....I don't think you really mean that do you :)

    Don't forget that for every action there is an equal and opposite re-action thus you have to be aware that as a Nation your actions be they military, diplomatic, industrial or social you will have an effect on others in distant countries. IMHO they have a perfect right to demonstrate or vocalise any dissatisfaction in the US and its' actions that may impact upon them...I know that's simplistic but without going into US foreign Policy since the foundation of the US that's all yer gunna git!

    But I agree with your principal point.......in principal.....:D
     
  11. UShadItComing

    UShadItComing New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2008
    Messages:
    680
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Very wise words top gun! I'm just wondering though if you are in the majority in your country or are people like the Abomination. Has the pendulum swung yet?

    There's no point in trying to convince abomination that he/she is wrong because it's not time to do that yet. But take heart in the fact that the question is posed and that means that he/she is aware of the question and needs reaffirmation of his/her mindset. That also demonstrates that he/she acknowledges that the question is being asked and that's good news. In fact the OP was more of a plea on his/her part because it stooped to the tactic of demeaning others to elevate him/herself. It's simply saying that if another country or countries are worse than us then we must be good! Slanted logic with a purpose which you will probably understand.

    Yes, of course America is a great country. But America has been led astray by Bush and his cronies. Understandable in one way if one considers that the American way is sacred to them and there was no option but to try to further the status quo through foreign aggression. And hey, it might work for a while yet. But eventually it will fail to work and the alternative which is now being considered will need to come about.

    I need to say that America can continue to be a great country but it needs to make the change soon because I really don't think that the downward spiral can be stopped by supporting a system which is failing is several ways. It's failing in the international community because the modern world will not accept America the way Bush has made it. It's failing at home because it's failing it's people in many ways because there is little regard for all the people and too much emphasis on supporting the aims and goals of the top few. A new balance must soon be struck.

    Obama may actually have the right intentions but can he gain enough power and muster enough support to fight the power at the top which is persistent on maintaining their wealth and power. And what's even more alarming is that it seems many Americans at the bottom, as we witness on this forum, are more intent on doing the bidding for those at the top than they are intent on bring up the overall standard for the good of the population.

    As gensen says, this could be an awesome thread!
     
  12. PLC1

    PLC1 Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2007
    Messages:
    9,887
    Likes Received:
    484
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    The Golden State
    The United States is a great country to live in. We have freedom (so far) to pursue whatever dreams we may have. We have the Bill of Rights. We have freedom of religion, of speech, and a whole lot more. We are (still, even though it is slipping away) an economic powerhouse.

    But we have a government that is broke, and is broken. We need some serious reforms if the US is to continue to be a great country.

    And, as has already been pointed out, it is not entirely the fault of the current POTUS that the government is in such a mess. Much of it is, of course, but many of the problems we face go back much further than the current administration.

    The real question is whether we, the people, are willing and able to once again take over the government we're supposed to be running, or whether we will continue to allow the two major parties to pursue their statist agendas, while the one pretends to be the party of fiscal responsibility and conservatism, and the other pretends to be the party of the common man.

    I don't think the situation has bottomed out just yet.
     
  13. top gun

    top gun New Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2007
    Messages:
    4,940
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Ohio, USA
    I appreciate it when we get glimpses of what the outside world sees. Everyone should love their country. But at the same time remember the wise old words... When the devil comes back he'll be wrapped in the flag holding a Bible!

    To answer your question directly having just 2 major political Parties America in naturally split fairly evenly between Liberals of varying degrees and Conservatives of varying degrees (some even overlap :)). We have a large (huge) amount of people that just don't participate at all as if the country is run on auto pilot. So it really all boils down to who can swing the "voting but not really affiliated" Independents over to their side.

    And yes the pendulum is swinging toward the Democrats. They increased their numbers in the last election and were able to regain a majority in both Houses of Congress. And with Of Executive Branch, President Bush, with the worst job approval ratings of any President ever since polls were created that seems a good sign people are seriously ready for a complete change.

    Add to that the historical fact that it is very difficult even with a popular President for a Party to hold that office for 3 terms in a row and the odds are definitely good that we'll be moving away from a Republican/Bush/McCain type of leadership.

    I think Senator Obama is exactly what America needs right now. He's indisputably intelligent. He's calm, deliberate and thoughtful. Sometimes you just have to change track, try a different management style, set some new goals for improvements to be made. In business corporations do this all the time.

    It was no accident Senator Obama got 200,000 to show up to hear him speak in Germany. Just think about it. I mean if the Chancellor of Germany came here to speak let alone just a candidate for Chancellor I wouldn't really care. But people want to hear what Senator Obama has to say because it's positive and it's a change from what we've had for 8 years under Bush.
     
  14. top gun

    top gun New Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2007
    Messages:
    4,940
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Ohio, USA
    I agree we have freedom but we've also had a lot of our Civil Liberties eroded under the current administration. But the good thing is we can vote to change things... at the very least start movement in a different direction.

    The fact that the voting public is so evenly divided and that the deck is stacked to keep America a 2 Party system it appears that without a groundswell of new & converted voters that all will only vote 3rd Party things will move somewhat slowly one way or the other with certain hot button issues playing a key roll in just what direction things go.

    That being the case the best one can do is look at the Party Platform... the actual planks of what their goals are and pick the one that you feel is the most fair & correct.
     
  15. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2008
    Messages:
    11,790
    Likes Received:
    257
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    The people's republic of Eugene
    I am not saying I dont care about the world or what is best for the world. I am saying that I am sick and I am done arguing with strange people from other imperfect countries who can do nothing but blame America for every pimple on their butts without using even one single brain cell that God gave them to see any other point but the hateful point they have decided to have.

    They wont stop complaining but I can stop listening :)

    Now when a normal person wants to talk about differnt world issues and if they feel that America has added to the problem I am happy to listen to a point of view. But I am talking about normal people sane people, not like the.... well I had better not say what they are or I will get reported :)

    I really dont have time to just throw away on people who are not even from our Country who just want stick us on their moral scale but turn a blind eye at all the other countries that have done in the last year worse things than our contry has done in its history.
     
Loading...

Share This Page