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Cheney ordered CIA to hide major programs from Congress

Discussion in 'U.S. Politics' started by top gun, Jul 13, 2009.

  1. top gun

    top gun New Member

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    The Republicants from our previous administration have to be the worst liars of all time.

    They are constantly getting caught. Even after they're out of office the walls just keep crumbling down. Even when you think... well hell it can't get any worse than TORTURE.

    I thought the whole Iran-Contra arms for hostages thing was pretty bad under Reagan. But these Bush/Cheney thugs make arms for hostages look like a day at the park!:eek:

    Torture... warrantless wiretaps... now this... The Vice President of the United States goes into the CIA, tells them to start specific programs that they UNDER LAW MUST TELL CONGRESS ABOUT... and he then orders them to not follow the law! WOW!!!

    And it gets worse. Cheney had this secret program so locked up to just him and his small click that even after leaving office the Head of the CIA was kept in the dark... THE HEAD OF THE CIA ITSELF!

    This is what Republicants do when they get into power... they completely and totally abuse it and just break major laws at will. Nixon & Watergate, Reagan & Iran-Contra, Bush/Cheney and all their illegal fandangos... laws simply don't pertain to them in their minds.





    Cheney told CIA not to tell Congress of new programme
    Monday Jul 13, 2009
    By Rupert Cornwell


    Dick Cheney. Photo / AP Former US vice-president Dick Cheney is today at the centre of a bitter new row, after charges he had directly ordered the CIA to keep Congress in the dark about a secret intelligence programme set up after the 9/11 attacks - an action that may have been in violation of the law.

    A top Democratic senator, Leon Panetta, who took over as CIA director a month into the Obama administration, told Congress on June 24 about the eight year old project, of which Mr Panetta himself had only just been informed. He told the House And Senate intelligence committees that he had immediately scrapped the programme and that information about it had been withheld at Mr Cheney's behest.

    In doing so, the Bush administration may have acted illegally, Dianne Feinstein, the chairwoman of the Senate intelligence committee said. "This is a big problem," she said, although she acknowledged the urgency of the circumstances after the attacks on New York and Washington: "I understand the need of the day... but you weaken your case when you go outside the law."

    Another top Democrat, Deputy Senate Majority Leader Dick Durbin, went further, demanding a full-scale Congressional probe into the affair. He said the executive branch should not create these types of programmes and conceal them from legislators. This was "not only inappropriate, it could be illegal," he said.


    [​IMG]
     
  2. GenSeneca

    GenSeneca Well-Known Member

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  3. Dr.Who

    Dr.Who Well-Known Member

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    It is pretty clear from the language of the allegations that this is political and not about real issues.

    The 8 members of congress on the security commissions can't be told about every single action of the cia. It is very possible that this did not meet the criteria to be important enough to be shared.

    Then the dems in congress need to support Pelosi so they drum up real looking charges but all the while say that they "may" be illegal and they "might" need an investigation. But behind the scenes they fully understand that there are legitimate reasons not to share something with congress.

    If it all fades away we will know it was just political maneuvering. If Cheny gets indicted then we will know he violated the law.

    Somehow I think it will be the former.
     
  4. ASPCA4EVER

    ASPCA4EVER New Member

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    But isn't this the exact reason that the Congressional Oversight Committee was formed...back in those 'Golden Oldies'...was do to the inner factions of the CIA doing 'unethical/illegal' operations that weren't being approved by the President??? Things that could/would get us involved in a war/cause a war/kill a foreign leader!!!

    You surely couldn't condone VP Cheney circumventing the oversight committees ability to keep those 'TOP SECRET' meeting confidential ;)

    And isn't it odd how VP Cheney and aides were involved in the leaking of undercover agents names to the press but this was well within his 'RIGHTS' to circumvent the oversight committee :confused:

    I'm very confused...WHO DOES THE VP work for/represent...he is an American, RIGHT??? :rolleyes: But then again maybe it was as some have suggested...he ran the White House and G.W.B. was just the 'DUMMY' with Dick Cheney's hand up his backside :eek:
     
  5. top gun

    top gun New Member

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    That whole "it's about Pelosi" is the Red Herring here.

    That's the diversion not the other way around. The torture issue & how Pelosi was or was not briefed has nothing to do with this whatsoever.

    This is about a Vice President going to the CIA and setting up or at the very least approving a program that under LAW had to be disclosed to Congress. And then specifically ordering the CIA not to tell Congress... or even the new CIA director.

    And it's not they can't possibly tell about all... it's that they legally MUST TELL ABOUT ALL. That's the law!

    I know the Obama administration has bent over backward not to go after Bush and Cheney but at some point some part of their law breaking probably will have to be addressed.

    I think and investigation will likely transpire on this one... we'll see.
     
  6. Dr.Who

    Dr.Who Well-Known Member

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    I have re-read the Op article in light of the statement that Cheney made the other day and it all makes sense.

    Cheney said that since the program or project was only discussed and was never begun there was no need to disclose any of it. That is consistent with the Op and consistent with the hedging language of his accusers who continually said things like it MAY be illegal or COULD be illegal. I believe they knew all along that it was legal and just wanted to make the charges.
     
  7. Dr.Who

    Dr.Who Well-Known Member

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    And in fact todays articles covering the story fail to be in any of the big networks and now say things like:

    "the project never become operational, although planning and "some training" had intermittently taken place since 2001."

    and

    "The White House has publicly come out against any legal sanctions, arguing that this would further damage morale at the CIA"

    and

    "The Executive Branch by law must inform Congress of its covert actions. There is legal wiggle room if programs are "not fully operational," such as the one CIA Director Leon Panetta cancelled last month after his spies told him about Cheney's role, an official told the Daily News.

    "Its loss was not mourned," said the official. The source added the scuttled activity had nothing to do with detention, interrogation or domestic operations, and noted that no lawmaker has claimed it was illegal."

    So as news comes out the tone of the articles changes drastically and by tomorrow not even the obscure sources will be saying much about it at all.

    Of course the real crime against the American people here is how the media can so blatantly spin the news and be so obviously biased.
     
  8. Little-Acorn

    Little-Acorn Well-Known Member

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    Has anyone mentioned yet, that the reason this program hasn't been briefed to Congress, is because it was shut down years ago and not pursued?

    I can see them briefing Congress: "Well, sir, nothing has happened on this program, becuase it hasn't existed for years."

    Next month: "Sir, still nothing has happened with this program, because it is just as shut-down now as it was last month."

    Next month: ......etc.

    Immediately after 9/11, every govt agency including the CIA, explored ways of fighting back against Al Qaeda. This was one of them. Most proposals were rejected and shut down (including this one), and a few were put into action.

    Apparently Democrats are dredging up everything they can, that they think they can make Republicans look bad with if they just exaggerate or leave out certain details.

    Haven't they got anything better to do?
     
  9. ASPCA4EVER

    ASPCA4EVER New Member

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    House lays groundwork for CIA probe

    Panel asks for documents about al-Qaida effort, officials say

    [​IMG]
    updated 4:37 p.m. CT, Tues., July 14, 2009

    WASHINGTON - The House Intelligence Committee has asked the CIA to provide documents about the now-canceled program to target al-Qaida leaders, congressional officials said Tuesday. The move is a precursor to what will almost certainly become a full-blown investigation into the secret operation and why the program was not disclosed to Congress, said the officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the matter publicly.
    CIA Director Leon Panetta told Congress on June 24 that he had canceled the effort to kill al-Qaida leaders with hit teams soon after learning about the operation. Panetta also told lawmakers that former Vice President Dick Cheney directed the CIA not to inform Congress of the specifics of the secret program.
    Intelligence officials say the operation never progressed passed a planning stage and therefore didn't merit congressional notification.

    <for the rest of this story>
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31905635/ns/politics-more_politics/

    ***********************************

    Then proceeding with this probe would just allow all of the 'FACTS' about who/what/when/where to come out for full disclosure!!!

    Because the immediate response from Panetta to close it down when he was made aware of it...would beg the question, how were the funds appropriated for this 'secret policy/mission/program' and how they arrived at the $$$$ that were set aside for this 'SECRET PROGAM'. And it shouldn't/wouldn't matter if the republicans or democrats don't want to move ahead with this probe...our tax dollars are more important to each of us and we need accountability for each and every 'buck'. We have a right to know, since this is not how the oversight committee is supposed to be treated...this is exactly why the entire premise on how the oversight committee was established!!!

    We may at some time in the future end up with another G.W.B. & VP Cheney seated in office...it would behoove us to know how the CIA ignored the law and listened to the VP? I have a right to know???
     
  10. Little-Acorn

    Little-Acorn Well-Known Member

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    I agree completely.

    In fact, I think we should immediately set up a Committee To Fully Brief Congress on All Programs That Were Shut Down Years Ago And Delve Into Every One Of Them To Find Full Details Just In Case Republicans Did Anything Wrong.

    Even the acronym will need an acronym.

    But this is a very important function, and we should get going on it without delay.

    Especially since Congressional Democrats apparently DON'T have anything better to do.
     
  11. ASPCA4EVER

    ASPCA4EVER New Member

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    Hey, I sense some serious sarcasm in your post ;)...and believe me when I say...I know sarcastic responses when I read them, I've been known to plant quite a few of my own but people just get pissy and emotionally BENT..LMAO

    So you are not worried/concerned/wondering, how the money was appropriated for that 'hush-hush' special program...least of all that they were following a directive of a VP that was against the law {shouldn't that be brought up for total disclosure :confused: Hells-bells if I was at the other end of that directive I would want them to know: what was said/who told me/why I followed the directive...CYI moment for sure!!!

    You seem to want to keep this about Democrats/Republicans and it is much broader scoped then that???
     
  12. Little-Acorn

    Little-Acorn Well-Known Member

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    Can't slip a thing past you, can I? And here I was trying to conceal it as hard as I could. :(


    Were you about to inform us what law the VP violated? Perhaps you just forgot to?

    Not at all. As I said, we should set up committees to investigate all of these cancelled programs... just in case. Isn't that exactly what you are asking for?

    Were you about to point out the evidence that this is so? Perhaps you just forgot to?
     
  13. top gun

    top gun New Member

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    Good post ASPCA.

    Your point is well taken. If Congress can look into college football and the BCS bowl games vs a playoff system... they can take a moment to check out procedure here.

    And the other very important point you make is about the future. We found out many once secret things after Vietnam that were done that were completely wrong even crossing the line to illegal.

    Putting the worry of having something an administration is doing coming out at some point and creating a huge embarrassment or if egregious enough criminal charges filed against somebody is a possible deterrent.
     
  14. top gun

    top gun New Member

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    I think we can all agree that this is not the mother of all problems.

    That said we do have a history here that does somewhat up the credibility ante I think.

    The Bush/Cheney administration made numerous false statements leading us into Iraq (I believe the actual count that I've posted in clips several times was 935). Now whether on wants to call these lies or just 935 times of bad luck I'm thinkin' it's reasonable to say there's a pattern here.

    Then we have the many well known TORTURE related issues like secret prison camps, Abu Grabe, Waterboarding, Gitmo etc.

    Then we had come out these new prisoner abuse photo's so terrible, so horrendous that both sides agree that just showing them puts our country and our soldiers in increased danger so they must be hidden from the public.

    So while I completely agree this should not be grandstanded into a Monica Walinsky witch hunt or spend 200 million dollars on it, a couple hearings and some under oath testimony just so we all know exactly the chain of events of what did or did not happen seems prudent and reasonable to me.

    Don't want to spend tons on it. Don't want to watch it like Michael Jackson's death. Just like to know what the program was, who authorized it, who said don't tell Congress and officially how far the program had progressed.
     
  15. ASPCA4EVER

    ASPCA4EVER New Member

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    Oh, Your really sly but I get that type of humor...it exudes out of me whether or not I want it too...;)
    Ok, you got me...I don't know what verse/ text/line item/law...I'm just repeating what my mass media talking heads are telling me...IT'S AGAINST THE LAW TO LIE TO THE OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE...so I can't explain the wherefores/what nots to you either!!! But it bears getting to the bottom of this to just clear the air!!!
    Let's see...TOPGUN had an excellent point...we have allowed them to waste money on more other/rather insipid insidious stupid fluff and then there was the entire special meeting about the Terry Schiavo hearing...WTH...this would just be a drop in the bucket for those lessor thinking politicians to undertake...but for me and my house this is SERIOUS SH!T
    Hey, wise guy, we won't know until we do the research...look how long it took the Watergate investigation and we didn't know who 'deep throat was until just this past year'...JEEZ LOUISE

    But you could contact your loyal former VP and ask 'HERR CHENEY' to be forth coming with his papers and notes...that would surely save months of drudgery and manpower...:) Never hurts to ask ;)
     
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