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Conservative vs. Liberal ideology

Discussion in 'U.S. Politics' started by USMC the Almighty, Apr 29, 2007.

  1. USMC the Almighty

    USMC the Almighty New Member

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    10) Conservatives believe that individual Americans have a right to defend themselves and their families with guns and that right cannot be taken away by any method short of a Constitutional Amendment, which conservatives would oppose. Liberals believe by taking arms away from law abiding citizens, they can prevent criminals, who aren't going to abide by gun control laws, from using guns in the commission of crimes.

    9) Conservatives believe that we should live in a color blind society where every individual is judged on the content of his character and the merits of his actions. On the other hand, liberals believe that it's ok to discriminate based on race as long as it primarily benefits minority groups.

    8) Conservatives are capitalists and believe that entrepreneurs who amass great wealth through their own efforts are good for the country and shouldn't be punished for being successful. Liberals are socialists who view successful business owners as people who cheated the system somehow or got lucky. That's why they don't respect high achievers and see them as little more than piggy banks for their programs.

    7) Conservatives believe that abortion ends the life of an innocent child and since we believe that infanticide is wrong, we oppose abortion. Most liberals, despite what they'll tell you, believe that abortion ends the life of an innocent child, but they prefer killing the baby to inconveniencing the mother.

    6) Conservatives believe in confronting and defeating enemies of the United States before they can harm American citizens. Liberals believe in using law enforcement measures to deal with terrorism, which means that they feel we should allow terrorists to train, plan, and actually attempt to kill Americans before we try to arrest them -- as if you can just send the police around to pick up a terrorist mastermind hiding in Iran or the wilds of Pakistan.

    5) Conservatives, but not necessarily Republicans (which is unfortunate), believe it's vitally important to the future of the country to reduce the size of government, keep taxes low, balance the budget, and get this country out of debt. Liberals, and Democrats for that matter, believe in big government, high taxes, and they have never met a new spending program they didn't like, whether we will have to go into debt to pay for it or not.

    4) Conservatives believe that government, by its very nature, tends to be inefficient, incompetent, wasteful, and power hungry. That's why we believe that the government that governs least, governs best. Liberals think that the solution to every problem is another government program. Even when those new programs create new problems, often worse than the ones that were being fixed in the first place, the solution is always....you guessed it, another government program.

    3) Conservatives are patriotic, believe that America is a great nation, and are primarily interested in looking out for the good of the country. That's why we believe in "American exceptionalism" and "America first." Liberals are internationalists who are more concerned about what Europeans think of us and staying in the good graces of the corrupt bureaucrats who control the UN than looking out for the best interests of this nation.

    2) Conservatives, most of them anyway, believe in God and think that the Constitution has been twisted by liberal judges to illegitimately try to purge Christianity from the public square. We also believe, most of us anyway, that this country has been successful in large part because it is a good, Christian nation and if our country ever turns away from the Lord, it will cease to prosper. Liberals, most of them anyway, are hostile to Christianity. That's why, whether you're talking about a school play at Christmas time, a judge putting the Ten Commandments on the wall of his court, or a store employee saying "Merry Christmas" instead of "Happy Holidays," liberals are dedicated to driving reminders of Christianity from polite society.

    1) Conservatives believe in pursuing policies because they're pragmatic and because they work. Liberals believe in pursuing policies because they're "nice" and make them feel good. Whether the policies they're advocating actually work or not is of secondary importance to them.

    With thanks to John Dawkins of Townhall.com:
    http://www.townhall.com/columnists/J...&comments=true
     
  2. Sgt Schultz

    Sgt Schultz New Member

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    In a black and white world view of liberals & conservatives what you posted might be true but the world isn't black and white. I know liberals who are against gun control, don't support abortion, etc. I also know conservatives who aren't christian, who support abortion rights, who support more government regulation, etc. The world and the issues that confront us as Americans is very complex and trying to fit everything into a liberal/conservative point of view will get us no where except more divided. We are Americans and need to find the common ground that binds us instead of enhancing the divisions to bring us down. I find both sides guilty of that and am tired of it, and will speak out about it when I see it happen.
     
  3. USMC the Almighty

    USMC the Almighty New Member

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    A conservative who favors bigger government, is then, by definition not conservative.

    I was merely displaying the basic tenets of my conservative philosophy.
     
  4. vyo476

    vyo476 Active Member

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    10. Liberals believe that by removing firearms from private households, thefts of large-scale arms and sale of such large-scale arms from people who are presently allowed to own them to people who are not (ie Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold) will be curtailed if not prevented altogether. Conservatives play up their right to carry for personal defense, which turns armed crimes into public shootouts.

    9. Liberals believe in promoting total equality between all races, but since such equality has not yet been achieved by our society programs designed to balance things out are necessary. Conservatives believe that by shutting their eyes to the inequity and talking about how racism is in the past they'll be indulging the poor minorities enough to shut them up.

    8. Liberals recognize that those who make large amounts of money don't need all of it and wish to use some of that money to help those who do. Conservatives blame people in need for their situation, which is a convenient excuse for not helping out.

    7. Liberals believe that a woman's reproductive rights are just that - a woman's reproductive rights. They also believe that with the growing population issue adding more children, especially unwanted children, isn't helpful. There are many conservatives, despite what they'll tell you, who have utilized abortion in the past.

    6. Liberals believe in assuaging the situations that create enemies of the United States and using violence as a last resort. Conservatives believe in gun diplomacy, which involves over-wrought invasions and occupations of countries with insurgencies that blur the line between terrorism and civil war.

    5. Liberals believe that money is a tool for the betterment of people and society and use it as such by creating programs to address important and relevant issues. Conservatives believe that letting people rot who can't help themselves is favorable because at least then they get to keep a few extra dollars.

    4. Liberals believe in the sanctity of democratically representative government, wherein candidates who are corrupt and inefficient do not achieve office-holding status. With that in mind they sponsor programs for the well-being of society. Conservatives believe in the inherent corruption of man - a concept of Hobbes, who was also a strong advocate of absolutism.

    3. Liberals recognize that the world is a much smaller place today than it was in 1776 and that the opinions of our neighbors, especially but not exclusively those we call our allies, matter. Conservatives are so concerned with making/keeping America "better" than the rest of the world that they ignore the idea of being equal with the rest of the world.

    2. Liberals, most of them anyway, are tolerant of all religions as marks of cultural diversity. They advocate the exception of Christianity from the government as strict adherence to Christianity in public affairs is non-inclusive to the growing number of non-Christian Americans. Conservatives are concerned with the maintenance of a tradition that is quickly going out of style. That's why they get so upset when they hear someone say "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas" - it is a revelation that America is changing in a way that does benefit them.

    1. Liberals believe in pursuing progressive policies that will modernize America and bring it equality and justice. Conservatives cling to out-dated policies based on traditions that are no longer applicable in the modern world. The idea of change is abhorrent to them.

    Please Note: This rebuttal does not represent my personal feelings. I just thought it'd be a good idea to have both sides represented equally, using the same type of language.
     
  5. vyo476

    vyo476 Active Member

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    Oh. I thought you were attempting to ferment a debate...I suppose we'll see what comes up then, eh?
     
  6. Sgt Schultz

    Sgt Schultz New Member

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    What about the many conservatives who favoured the establishment of the Department of Homeland Security, the federalization of airport security, etc in the wake of 9/11? These programs are some of the biggest federal programs in existence yet are nothing more than bureaucratic layers of government that do nothing to improve our national security.

    I also understand that what you say might be your conservative political philosophy but in my opinion you're writing off the common ground that you hold with many liberals. While you may have differences on some issues I believe you'll find that you have more in common than you realize.
     
  7. TheWaffle

    TheWaffle New Member

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    You know what, I gotta agree with the conservatives on this one. God forbid we actually make people register their guns, and God forbid we make someone wait more than 3 days to actually buy a gun while we check to make sure they aren't a sociopath or convicted felon. I also can't believe that those liberals are against allowing people to purchase full automatic rifles and sub-machine guns. I'm glad conservatives keep their focus on the truly important and dangerous things in our country, things like gay marriages.

    Yea, I too am glad that I live in America, a country where racism is dead. Phew, I can't imagine what it'd be like if we still lived in a country with national hate groups that still had memberships in the thousands. Or a country where the distribution of wealth has an extreme and obvious correlation with regards to race.

    Yea I too agree that those making hundreds of thousands of year have the right to keep their money while the disabled and poverty stricken to whom every little bit helps can die because they obviously aren't trying hard enough. I mean why on earth should the wealthy and priviledged have to surrender money that they don't need in order to subsidize medical care for families who can't afford asthma treatments for their children.

    By all means. We should definatly go around pointing the finger at everyone that we think is a terrorist. That definatly doesn't justify their ideology that we are a domineering empire. Thank God we have policies like the Patriot Act that allows our government to put the Fascism back into Freedom.

    I'm glad too that our republican president and congress have the fiscal responsibility to take a multi hundred million dollar surplus into a trillion dollar deficit. I also love that our executive branch believe that it is in the best interest of American tax payers to offer tax breaks to corporations that pocket the money, it's also beneficial our politicians also happen to own stock in those company, or they used to be on the board of directors.

    Yea man I'm glad conservatives don't put in programs like No Child Left Behind that hurts an already hurting American educational system. Also thank God for the Clear Skies Initiative, by all means let's put into effect programs that have an extremely short sighted approach and deceive the American people.

    You're right, our best course of action is to alienate all of our allies and ignore the advice and example of other successful nations. We should ignore the UN, I'm sure that other countries won't follow suit and completely disband all sort of international unity. We need a future that is divided not united.

    I agree, we should spend our time and energy arguing over a fictional War on Christianity in America even though the overwhelming number of Americans are Christians. I just wonder how Christians would respond if stores started wishing people a Pious Ramadan.

    I'm so happy that conservatives don't pursue faulty and deceptive legislation like NCLB, Clear Skies, or the Patriot Act. God forbid we raise the minimum wage. I mean seriously, we NEED to apply impossible rules to the educational system and invest in faulty standardized testing. God Bless the honest Conservatives and their bottomless pit of integrity. I'm glad that they aren't partisan hacks.

    P.S. What was the point of this thread?
     
  8. GraceAustin

    GraceAustin New Member

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    10) Conservatives believe that individual Americans have a right to defend themselves and their families with guns and that right cannot be taken away by any method short of a Constitutional Amendment, which conservatives would oppose. Liberals believe by taking arms away from law abiding citizens, they can prevent criminals, who aren't going to abide by gun control laws, from using guns in the commission of crimes.>>>>

    Wrong. What 'liberals' are those? This is a 'wives tale' perpetuated by conservatives. NO liberal that I know wants to disarm Americans, and that includes me.
     
  9. endtyranny

    endtyranny New Member

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    Therein lies the problem with politics. Supremacy of one's view over another. I'm a liberal, but I try to see both sides of any given issue and believe that middle ground (you know that gray area everyone conveniently ignores) is the only solution to our problems.
     
  10. RadicalActor

    RadicalActor New Member

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    Agreed.

    We can't let our personal beliefs alter what's actually the best judgment.
     
  11. Coyote

    Coyote Active Member

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  12. Grounded

    Grounded New Member

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  13. USMC the Almighty

    USMC the Almighty New Member

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    Where did it say that conservatives oppose a waiting period or background checks? We merely believe that all law-abiding citizens should have the right to defend themselves.

    And regarding automatic rifles and SMGs: only 1% of gun attacks are committed using these weapons, and after they banned them, 1% of gun attacks continued to be perpetrated using these weapons. The problem with your argument here is that whom you place the burden of proof on is backwards. It's not up to us, the citizens, to prove to you why we should be allowed to keep them, it's up to the gov't to explain why they are being taken away for no concrete reason, other than making liberals feel "safer".

    The Left perpetrates racism at a more national level then conservatives with programs like affirmative action that essentially tells black people they aren't good enough to make it on their own and they need the government to give them an advantage based on no factor other than skin color and you want to talk about classifying people based on race.

    Racism will never be dead until we stop teaching our children that it is not only okay, but appropriate to classify people according to their race. When our white children look at black children no different than a white child, then we will have a color blind society. This is not possible however, when liberals play the race card at ever opportunity.

    I'm not going to touch this one for obvious reasons...


    Exactly, they have the right to keep their money. It's not to say that we can't give it away, but it's to say that we shouldn't be forced to. It's well documented that conservatives are more charitable and generous than liberals, which shouldn't really be surprising since they believe that its the govt's responsibility to take care of everything. It also shouln't surprise you that capitalist nations are well more charitable than Communist or socialist ones.

    Because that's not how this country was founded. We were founded by "self-made men" who believed strongly in personal responsibility and firmly in limited government. You bringing up children with asthma not only has nothing to do with the topic, but is an attempted scare tactic. Subsidies go against everything America stands for: personal responsibility and limited government.

    You're right, we should go back to the Clinton model of just ignoring terrorist attack after terrorist attack. That's really the way to stop them.
    Under Clinton we had no less than 6 terrorist attacks and he continually ignored them. After 9/11, when Bush decided to confront terrorism, we have had 0 terrorist attacks.

    "Conservatives, but not necessarily Republicans (which is unfortunate), believe it's vitally important to the future of the country to reduce the size of government, keep taxes low, balance the budget, and get this country out of debt. "

    Did you even read it? It says conservatives but not necessarily Republicans. First of all, Bush is no conservative. Conservative disdain for spending was evident in the 2006 mid term elections when the Democrats were rewarded with both houses. It wasn't a mandate to get out of Iraq like the Dems think, it was because the conservatives were genuinely frustrated with Republican spending and thought it was time to show that we will not tolerate it.

    See above.

    Of course you always want to remain allies, but sometimes you have to act in your own best interest. When the choice between preserving national security and remianing allied with a foreign country arises, national defense trumps alliances.

    "Liberals are internationalists who are more concerned about what Europeans think of us and staying in the good graces of the corrupt bureaucrats who control the UN than looking out for the best interests of this nation."

    You pretty much just confirmed this.

    The PATRIOT Act works, and thus is pragmatic not idealist by definition.

    What does this have to do with anything? Who, aside from part-time high school students, even makes minimum wage? They are certainly not the ones driving the economy.

    Conservatives believe in school vouchers and giving students an incentive to achieve (after all, our entire philosophy is based around the idea that hard work is ultimately rewarded) while liberals believe in giving poor teachers tenure and some even believe in getting rid of grades entirely.
     
  14. Coyote

    Coyote Active Member

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    Thanks - I got a lot out of it too...it made me think beyond the typical left/right, fundy/liberal dichotomies...and it made sense to me.
     
  15. TheWaffle

    TheWaffle New Member

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    I don't recall anyone trying to take your guns away from you. This is just some illusion that people have concocted.

    So when El Presidente goes out and claims that John McCain has a "illegitimate black child" back in 2000, you don't think that that is racist? Do you think the government Katrina response would have been so weak if it had hit a primarily white population center. I'm not calling Conservatives racist but the fact of the matter is that to say that these programs are the real racism is extremely naive. Affirmative action and other programs are important in providing oppurtunities to those who are clearly at a disadvantage. It also stops the trend of self-segregation which would only lead to a resurgence in racial tensions.

    I'm sorry dude, but if you think that our Founding Fathers were just some motivated run-of-the-mill guys you are sorely mistaken. Most of them were born into money. I'm not exactly sure where you get your "well documented" proof that conservatives are more charitable then democrats. And in those socialist nations if by more charitable you mean are less dependent on charity because the government takes care of those in need. And as far as subsidies, you saying that they are un-American really just displays a poor understanding of economics. And pardon me if I don't cry when the government takes a portion of a multi-millionaires income in order to provide healthcare and subsidies to help the poor. And I don't know why you continually put forward this "You should do everything yourself" if you think that most people are poor because they're lazy then you my friend are living in an illusion.

    Hmmm...your right let's uh, set these qualifiers. AFTER 9/11 we have suffered 0 terrorist attacks. Oh actually hang on, sorry we mean to say dozens everyday. And just so you remember only two of those under Clinton happened within our borders so you can't pull this crap that we haven't been attacked under Bush. Also yea, 9/11 was a slightly larger scale attack then the original WTC bombing or Oklahoma. And don't try this oh well Clinton set it up business. Nine months of lame duck rule, not to mention the negligence of reading terror reports from his own staff. Yup Bush is really good at not getting us attacked.

    Well most conservatives are republicans and you guys had the executive and the legislative and from what I'm seeing it doesn't look like fiscal responsibility.


    See you make this jump that because I regard alliances highly that means I put other nations ahead of America. I don't think rushing into an ill-planned war is in America's best interest. And just because the President tells you something is right doesn't mean that it is. And keeping with the UN is in our best interest in the long run. By shunning the UN you make it very easy for other nations to band together in ways that are not in our interest.

    I think this one is just a fundamental disagreement between you and me.

    I just personally believe that motivated teachers beget motivated and interested students. You may find it inspiring to have a sheet of paper that represents you as a person in the eyes of society, me not so much.
     
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