Crimes of Israel

[Plato]

Israel's assault on the Gaza strip may be self-defense, but it is more than that. It involves serious violations of international law, including war crimes. The UN has a right to retaliate against an armed attack from another state. Israel had not suffered a large "armed attack" to be able to retaliate against the Hamas. The Palestinians have loosed thousands of bombs and other explosives into Israel, causing two dozen Israeli deaths. But is this enough of a reason to "retaliate"? They have caused 2,700 palestinian deaths, most of them innocent civilians, and have not given a single thought about what they were doing. In June 19, 2008, Israel and the Hamas signed a treaty of peace. Neither side has compiled perfectly. Israel refused to substantially ease the suffocating siege of Gaza imposed in June 2007. Hamas permitted sporadic rocket fire -- typically after Israel killed or seized Hamas members in the West Bank, where the truce did not apply. The rockets killed one Israeli. Israel broke that truce on November fourth, raiding the Gaza strip and killing a Palestinian. The Hamas continued the rocket barrage, but no one died. Israel cannot claim than their actions have been in self-defense, because it was provoked by them.

According to the Wall Street Journal:

An armed attack that is not justified by self-defense is a war of aggression. Under the Nuremberg Principles affirmed by U.N. Resolution 95, aggression is a crime against peace.

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Israel seems to not know the difference between a military and non-military location or place. They have destroyed or attempted to destroy vital government buildings, police stations, and even a university. It is unknown to me at what scale they attacked these places. All I know is that they did. When non-military locations are targeted, civilians die. Killing innocents, even if they hate you but haven't made a move against you, is a crime that is almost unspeakable. Deliberate attacks on civilians that lack strict military necessity are war crimes. Israel's current international law violations come from a long path of abuse to the people of the Gaza strip. Even though Israel removed its troops from Gaza in 2005, they still patrolled and guarded the closest places to Gaza that is not Gaza. They denied the people of Gaza their rights, so we should deny them the long friendship the world has given them. We must pressure them to change their ways. We should give the Palestinians their rights if Israel will not. We should stand by the old but twisted friend. We will stand beside the one who protects our values and our ideals. Not doing so is contradicting ourselves in entirety.

Israel wants to stop rocket attacks on southern Israel and to stop Hamas smuggling weapons into Gaza via Egypt, while Hamas says any
ceasefire deal must include an end to Israel's blockade of the Gaza Strip. More than 600 Palestinians are now believed to have been killed
since Israel began its offensive 11 days ago. Palestinian health ministry officials say at least 195 children are among those
killed.An Israeli attack on Tuesday on a UN-run school building, being used to shelter people who had fled their homes, killed 40 people,
UN officials say.

Killing children and innocent people is homicide. It must be stopped. Israel does not want reporters inside Gaza because they do not want the world to see what they are doing. By the time they are done, half of the Palestinians will be dead. We cannot and must not make this happen. They need to let reporters into Gaza so we can see what they are doing, but they won't. Why? I don't think many people know, but it is probably because they don't want the world siding with the people of Gaza until their dastardly deed is done, that is if they are doing things that terrible. Nothing coming from Gaza has been verified by anyone except the Israelis and United Nations officials. If it comes to the tipping point, Israel should be officially charged for serious violations of international law and war crimes.

However, if Israel continues to control the flow of humanitarian aid into Gaza and can choose to stop it at any time this seems unlikely to command the support of Hamas, our correspondent notes. Andrew Whitley of the UN relief agency Unwra told the BBC that any relief in the conditions of the people of Gaza could only be a good thing. "People have been weakened by 18 months of blockade and siege. They've been getting very little food, electricity or heat for a long time, and so they are in a very weakened condition," he said. Casualty claims in Gaza cannot be independently verified. Israel is refusing to let international journalists into Gaza, despite a supreme court ruling to allow a limited number of reporters to enter the territory.

 

[Bunz]

Israel's assault on the Gaza strip may be self-defense, but it is more than that. It involves serious violations of international law, including war crimes. The UN has a right to retaliate against an armed attack from another state.

Which is precisely what Israel is doing.

Israel had not suffered a large "armed attack" to be able to retaliate against the Hamas. The Palestinians have loosed thousands of bombs and other explosives into Israel, causing two dozen Israeli deaths. But is this enough of a reason to "retaliate"?

HUH? You say Israel has not suffered an armed attack...then go on to say the Palestinians have used thousands of bombs against Israel. I would qualify this as an armed attack.

They have caused 2,700 palestinian deaths, most of them innocent civilians, and have not given a single thought about what they were doing.

I disagree with this, Israel has spent billions upon billions of dollars on the latest most accurate military arms and training in an effort to minimize collateral damage. If Israel didnt care, they would have swept the area decades ago and killed every Palestinian in the area. Israel has shown great restraint in this regard, at a signifigant cost to themselves.

In June 19, 2008, Israel and the Hamas signed a treaty of peace. Neither side has compiled perfectly. Israel refused to substantially ease the suffocating siege of Gaza imposed in June 2007. Hamas permitted sporadic rocket fire -- typically after Israel killed or seized Hamas members in the West Bank, where the truce did not apply.

So it is justified for a Hamas to fire rockets, breaking a ceasefire because of Israel's actions in the West Bank where they are more or less not violating any agreement? Im not following the logic here.

The rockets killed one Israeli. Israel broke that truce on November fourth, raiding the Gaza strip and killing a Palestinian.

No, the Palestinians broke the truce by firing a rocket. It doesnt matter how many got killed.

The Hamas continued the rocket barrage, but no one died. Israel cannot claim than their actions have been in self-defense, because it was provoked by them.

Plato, have you ever been shot at? or been in a fist fight? Because here is my theory, I am sure a few others will agree...if you shoot at me, and miss, I am going to shoot back, and do my best not to miss.
If we get into a fight, you swing at me, and I dodge the punch, I am going to punch you.
Do you expect Israel to sit back and be fired at until a certain amount of people are killed? Then defend themselves?

Israel seems to not know the difference between a military and non-military location or place.

I think you might have Israel and Hamas mixed up here.

They have destroyed or attempted to destroy vital government buildings

Legitimate military target

police stations

legitimate military target

and even a university.

if militants are taking shelter in the university, it is a military target, as is a mosque.

When non-military locations are targeted, civilians die. Killing innocents, even if they hate you but haven't made a move against you, is a crime that is almost unspeakable.

So you would agree then that targeting shopping malls, cafes, public transportation is an unspeakable crime?
How about unguided rockets falling from the sky?

Deliberate attacks on civilians that lack strict military necessity are war crimes. Israel's current international law violations come from a long path of abuse to the people of the Gaza strip. Even though Israel removed its troops from Gaza in 2005, they still patrolled and guarded the closest places to Gaza that is not Gaza. They denied the people of Gaza their rights, so we should deny them the long friendship the world has given them. We must pressure them to change their ways. We should give the Palestinians their rights if Israel will not. We should stand by the old but twisted friend. We will stand beside the one who protects our values and our ideals. Not doing so is contradicting ourselves in entirety.
I will come on board with your plan when Hamas and other Palestinian terror groups stop firing rockets towards the Israeli civilian poppulation, targeting civilians, and breaking binding peace agreements.

Killing children and innocent people is homicide. It must be stopped. Israel does not want reporters inside Gaza because they do not want the world to see what they are doing. By the time they are done, half of the Palestinians will be dead. We cannot and must not make this happen. They need to let reporters into Gaza so we can see what they are doing, but they won't. Why? I don't think many people know, but it is probably because they don't want the world siding with the people of Gaza until their dastardly deed is done, that is if they are doing things that terrible. Nothing coming from Gaza has been verified by anyone except the Israelis and United Nations officials. If it comes to the tipping point, Israel should be officially charged for serious violations of international law and war crimes.

So you want more journalists in Gaza? Why on Earth would you want to put more innocent civilians in Gaza for those nasty Israelis to kill?

 

[Plato]

HUH? You say Israel has not suffered an armed attack...then go on to say the Palestinians have used thousands of bombs against Israel. I would qualify this as an armed attack.

I suppose I didn't word that well. I meant to say that killing many people, mostly innocents, isn't the greatest way to respond to rocket fire.

I disagree with this, Israel has spent billions upon billions of dollars on the latest most accurate military arms and training in an effort to minimize collateral damage. If Israel didnt care, they would have swept the area decades ago and killed every Palestinian in the area. Israel has shown great restraint in this regard, at a signifigant cost to themselves.

Why are they killing everyone now? Spending all that time and money for accurate arms, and then killing anyone around a real 'bad guy'? Let me remind you that the US has given Israel about 2.5 Billion dollars over the past year.

So it is justified for a Hamas to fire rockets, breaking a ceasefire because of Israel's actions in the West Bank where they are more or less not violating any agreement? Im not following the logic here.

I suppose that because the truce doesn't apply, they feel like they are allowed to fire rockets. I can't blame them for defending their people, but that is what Israel is doing, too. I feel that they should try and work something out instead of killing one another

No, the Palestinians broke the truce by firing a rocket. It doesnt matter how many got killed.

But by killing more Palestinians, Israel is just provoking the conflict. They just want some excuse to wipe the place from the face of the Earth.

Plato, have you ever been shot at? or been in a fist fight? Because here is my theory, I am sure a few others will agree...if you shoot at me, and miss, I am going to shoot back, and do my best not to miss.
If we get into a fight, you swing at me, and I dodge the punch, I am going to punch you.
Do you expect Israel to sit back and be fired at until a certain amount of people are killed? Then defend themselves?

Very good response, Bunz. I have no problem with them defending themselves, I just feel like they are going over the top.

I think you might have Israel and Hamas mixed up here.
Legitimate military target...
legitimate military target...
if militants are taking shelter in the university, it is a military target, as is a mosque.

Good point. I never thought about the university thing. But they could at least lower the amount of innocents they kill in the university.

So you would agree then that targeting shopping malls, cafes, public transportation is an unspeakable crime?
How about unguided rockets falling from the sky?

Both are horrible. I never said anything about the rockets, though. It is bad enough that they are shooting at one another in the first place.

I will come on board with your plan when Hamas and other Palestinian terror groups stop firing rockets towards the Israeli civilian poppulation, targeting civilians, and breaking binding peace agreements.

That is what we all want, right? When they stop firing, Israel needs to stop as well. If they don't, there will be sufficient proof of war crimes.

 

[HankHill]

Educate yourself as to what Israel is dealing with:

http://www.pmw.org.il/

An enemy that cannot be reasoned with, an enemy that will not stop until you are dead, an enemy that teaches their future generations to hate.

 

[The Scotsman]

Israel's assault on the Gaza strip may be self-defense, but it is more than that. It involves serious violations of international law, including war crimes. The UN has a right to retaliate against an armed attack from another state. Israel had not suffered a large "armed attack" to be able to retaliate against the Hamas. The Palestinians have loosed thousands of bombs and other explosives into Israel, causing two dozen Israeli deaths. But is this enough of a reason to "retaliate"? They have caused 2,700 palestinian deaths, most of them innocent civilians, and have not given a single thought about what they were doing.

................why should they? If Hamas want to play in the majors then they had better be up to the task..... they have dragged their electorate into this fiasco knowing full well what was going to happen why then are they so upset? for that matter why is the electorate now a tad puzzled by the fact that Israel is going to continue screwing them six ways from Sunday until the rockets stop? Elect idiots into office this what you get!

Welcome to the real world!!! Its called WAR

Killing children and innocent people is homicide. It must be stopped. Israel does not want reporters inside Gaza because they do not want the world to see what they are doing. By the time they are done, half of the Palestinians will be dead. We cannot and must not make this happen. They need to let reporters into Gaza so we can see what they are doing, but they won't. Why? I don't think many people know, but it is probably because they don't want the world siding with the people of Gaza until their dastardly deed is done, that is if they are doing things that terrible. Nothing coming from Gaza has been verified by anyone except the Israelis and United Nations officials. If it comes to the tipping point, Israel should be officially charged for serious violations of international law and war crimes.

Heres a though for you.... The US dropped the atomic bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki and the Allies during WWII pounded Dresden, Hamburg, the Ruhr valley and indeed most of Germany into powder whilst millions of civilians died. Millions targetted deliberately, why? To reduce the desire of the people to continue fighting. Isreal is sending a pretty simple message to a very stupid population - if you want to keep these guys in power then fine, but be prepared to answer for the consequences of their actions!

 

[Pidgey]

After all... they could have gone in with GBU-43/Bs and done things a lot faster!

 

[The Scotsman]

After all... they could have gone in with GBU-43/Bs and done things a lot faster!

.........nah, 50 KT airburst would do the trick

 

[Pidgey]

Methinks the winds might bring some fallout over Israel. No need to crap in one's own nest if that can be avoided...

 

[Pidgey]

http://www.honestreporting.com/articles/45884734/critiques/new/Israel_at_War_-_Day_15.asp

(watch the vid)

 

[Plato]

Since when is it a crime to protect yourself? They are an ally of the US and deserve support in their quest make Israel a safe place for all.

Since when isn't it a crime to kill many innocent people? Sure, I'm fine with Israel defending themselves, but killing innocent civilians is plain wrong.

 

[Ejgertz]

And your thoughts on Hamas sending untargeted rockets into Israel? That kills innocent people as well.

 

[hormanh]

http://www.ikhwantube.org/video/2658/الرضيع-المحروق-من-غزة-01