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Dear Progressives

Discussion in 'U.S. Politics' started by GenSeneca, Nov 25, 2008.

  1. GenSeneca

    GenSeneca Well-Known Member

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    Why do you have more respect for our nations enemies than your fellow Americans?

    When it comes to the people who wish our nation harm... you want to talk to them with peaceful understanding and avoid making them out as bad people.
    Yet, when it comes to fellow Americans who disagree, you want to scream at them, call them horrible names, and make them out to be the worst people on earth.

    When it comes to the nations who would like to see the destruction of America, you say they have some legitimate complaints which we should amicably address.
    Yet, when it comes to fellow Americans who disagree with you.... you don't recognize any of their complaints as legitimate and heap ridicule upon them for daring to disagree.

    You don't want to force America's will on other nations for our own national interest or security, but your fine with forcing the progressive will on Americans that disagree with you, specifically because you believe its in the nations best interest.

    So tell me, why is it that so many of you on the left are ready to deal with the sworn enemies our nation by using the carrot, but treat your fellow Americans using only the stick?

    You may consider yourselves Progressive, but here in America - toward your fellow Americans - you guys are nothing but Oppressive.
     
  2. Dawkinsrocks

    Dawkinsrocks Well-Known Member

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    How can you be so gullible?

    You really think your nation goes around the world dispensing largesse don't you?

    It is like a 3 year old who thinks their dad is super man and incapable of wrong doing.

    The US is a hugely aggressive nation that attacks countries without provocation and undermines democratically elected governments because they are left wing.

    I assume you are a grown adult and yet it beggars belief that you have this rose tinted view of the world.

    I bet you loved the films where those good honest cowboys were mistreated by those Injuns didn't you?

    You are a victim of propganda.

    wake up for ****'s sake.

    The current government made up a lie to attack Iraq and yet you write the drivel you post above. You are the reason they get away with it.

    What is wrong with you?
     
  3. GenSeneca

    GenSeneca Well-Known Member

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    3 things here....

    1) Your not an American, so I can fully understand why you feel the way you do. From my perspective, its you thats been spoonfed propoganda, which you then regurgitate and consider it knowledge.

    2) You like setting up strawmen arguments to knock down. My post had nothing to do with how America treats, or is treated, by the rest of the world, this post is from an American to his fellow Americans.

    3) As usual, you have nothing to offer but ridicule, abuse, and lies. Please, hijack some other thread.
    -----------------------------------------
    If there are any Moderators that are willing to enforce the rules about thread hijacking, I ask that you keep an eye on Dawkins and not let him continue to hijack the threads of others. I don't want this thread closed because of him. I want to hear from my fellow Americans on the left, who treat me with less respect than our mutual enemies, sworn to hurt both of us and our families.
     
  4. Dawkinsrocks

    Dawkinsrocks Well-Known Member

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    What I wrote goes to the very heart of your post.

    It is asking you how you can believe such nonesense when the US is such an aggressive nation?

    The fact that you don't have an answer does not surprise me.

    This is a board for anyone to post on (or at least it should be) and it is perfectly reasonable to question something that is clearly wrong. Especially as hundreds of thousands of people are being killed around the world because of the views expressed.

    Your post suggests that you have to support America in anything it does.

    Fortunately not all your countrymen are as mad.
     
  5. GenSeneca

    GenSeneca Well-Known Member

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    That is not at all what my post is about. I don't support my country in everything it does. You, dawkins, I would consider one of my nations enemies... because, correct me if I'm wrong but, you would like to see America get its "come-uppins" and lose its position in the world. You would like to see America be destroyed, or at least castrated, so that my country would be totally impotent to defend itself or its allies.

    My post is asking why my fellow Americans think that our nations enemies deserve respect, understanding and should be dealt with by something other than force, but their fellow Americans deserve none of that respect and they feel people like me should be dealt with by force.
     
  6. TVoffBrainOn

    TVoffBrainOn Member

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    We would like diplomacy to replace decades of military intervention and economic suppression. We want to begin the long process of undoing so much of the horrible things that our government has perpetuated in the Middle East, South America, and parts of Asia and Eastern Europe.

    We want to talk to them about a new era of Foreign Policy that protects our nation and leaves them their's. It's going to be an incredibly long process, but you when I think of America greatness in the world, this is the leadership role I see us in.

    Yes, we understand their complaints so we argue at home with those who have supported the policy's and ideas that have led to those legitimate complaints. And that is the problem, I believe you and your ideas, and the policy's you support have led directly to the complaints of those you call our enemies.... your ideas created them. "You", your world view is the fundamental problem. You are the root cause.

    Forcing America's "will", as you call it, on other nation's results in the deaths of millions of human beings. Arguing politically at home, although nasty at times, tends to hurt no one.
     
  7. Dawkinsrocks

    Dawkinsrocks Well-Known Member

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    Great post TV.

    You are wrong Gen, again

    I do not want to see your country hurt but if hurting your country a bit will stop the enormous hurt it meets out on the rest of the world then it would not do any harm for you to get a taste of your own medicine.

    Sometimes I think it is the only way that people like you can understand that killing people and making others refugees is really ****ing bad.

    Cos at present you seem extraordinarily blase about the number of people the US kills.
     
  8. Mr. Shaman

    Mr. Shaman New Member

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    I'd like to know when "conservative"-males quit beating their wives.
     
  9. Lagboltz

    Lagboltz Well-Known Member

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    Your premise is a bit presumptive in that you are saying that progressives want to "avoid making [enemies] out as bad people". I know lots of progressives, and none of them come anywhere near thinking that way. In short I see it as Shaman says, "when did you stop beating your wife" type question, and will get responses such as Dawkinsrocks.

    I think they are really two unrelated questions, and this is the way I look at it.
    The first question is, why do some liberals want to consider diplomacy first and war as a last resort? Rephrasing the question that way answers the question.
    To be fair, I would strike out the word "amicably". Diplomacy is not always amicable. I don't understand why you would consider that anyone here would think a relationship with Kim Jong, or Ahmadinejad as "amicable."
    I would like to rephrase the second question more fairly: "Why are progressives and conservatives always at each other's throats?"

    You may see only your side of it, but liberals see conservatives in a similar light. One explanation is that it is the clan legacy of man. Whether it is Clinton vs. Obama, McCain vs. Obama, Palin vs. Blue state America, or soccer and football teams, there is unbridled rivalry between opposing groups. Americans tend to think in black and white. "Either you are with us or you are against us", and that causes a great divide.
     
  10. oceanenvy

    oceanenvy New Member

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    I think you are misunderstanding and severely misstating the progressive position. Here is a great quote from the Northwest Progressive Institute re: dealing with our enemies.

    "We happen to differ with the current occupant of the White House about how best to achieve that. While solid police and investigative work by law enforcement, intelligence and defense agencies may not give the glamorous appearance of landing on an aircraft carrier in a flight suit, we believe that efficient use of those tools will yield great results.

    Where military foce is warranted, we believe the United States will act swiftly and with maximum force to destroy those who would destroy us. But we discard at our peril the wisdom of uniformed military officers and civilian analysts who have chosen to spend their careers protecting the American people. The deliberate smearing of people must end.

    Progressives are continually and relentlessly accused of "not understanding the threat" by our domestic political opponents, which is a sad and unfortunate comment on how our opponents choose to conduct themselves. Charges that progressives somehow "are on the side of the terrorists" are not only insulting, but frankly idiotic."
     
  11. Unite Our Nation

    Unite Our Nation New Member

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    Didn't read the entire thread, but wanted to respond to this...

    "It is asking you how you can believe such nonesense when the US is such an aggressive nation?"


    Thank you!!! We ARE INDEED AN AGRESSIVE NATION!! And we will stay that way. We will protect ourselves no matter what!

    Next.
     
  12. Unite Our Nation

    Unite Our Nation New Member

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    Those who think that any nation can stay free without defending itself is ignoring hundreds of years of history.

    People have been killing and taking over other countries since the beginning. Being "nice" and talking to those who would harm you and yours, will do nothing other than get you killed or conquered.

    Give me one time in history where another nation, country or tribe left another alone, even though they wanted the spoils of the country?

    Just one example...
     
  13. Dawkinsrocks

    Dawkinsrocks Well-Known Member

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    The USA is not defending itself when it attacks Iraq.

    Or Vietnam

    Or Yugoslavia

    Or Afghanistan

    Etc.

    How did you get to be so ignorant?
     
  14. Unite Our Nation

    Unite Our Nation New Member

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    Is that all you have Dawks? Poor attempts at insults??? LOL

    Try answering the question.
     
  15. Dawkinsrocks

    Dawkinsrocks Well-Known Member

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    I completely refuted your claim that the US is just defending itself and you say that isn't enough.

    I guess we will have to leave it there then
     
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