Dear Progressives

[Mr. Shaman]

Those who think that any nation can stay free without defending itself is ignoring hundreds of years of history.

No doubt.

Just ask the Vietnamese about that.​

 

[Pidgey]

I think all of ya' oughta' take a little time out and go read this document:

http://www.lawfulpath.com/ref/sw4qw/index.shtml

Now, the origins of said document are a tad on the dubious side, but you should forgive that for this reason: it seems to hit too close to home. Doesn't matter whether you're a liberal, conservative, socialist, communist or whatever... this document, whatever it is and wherever it comes from, hints at workings behind the scenes that a casual glance around might confirm. Sure, it's a bit on the "tinfoil hat" side but it does cause one to take a more thoughtful view of our economy and how each of us fit in it.

 

[Lagboltz]

I think all of ya' oughta' take a little time out and go read this document:

http://www.lawfulpath.com/ref/sw4qw/index.shtml

Now, the origins of said document are a tad on the dubious side, but you should forgive that for this reason: it seems to hit too close to home. Doesn't matter whether you're a liberal, conservative, socialist, communist or whatever... this document, whatever it is and wherever it comes from, hints at workings behind the scenes that a casual glance around might confirm. Sure, it's a bit on the "tinfoil hat" side but it does cause one to take a more thoughtful view of our economy and how each of us fit in it.

The cited article is not a government document, nor a training manual. It goes through an elaborate informal comparison of electronics theory with economics theory. There was no need to do that because the equations involved are well known and a real economist would not resort to the strange analogy. Another problem is that the equations of electronics are linear, and economics is highly non-linear. Economics is more like the equations for weather prediction in that they are very sensitive to very slight perturbations. Economic equations are about as accurate as weather prediction too, with a limited insight to predicting a future trend.

Half the paper is about the electronics analogy. But the author doesn't relate it to the conspiracy aspect that the people are sheep and are manipulated. I don't think anyone needs convincing that large institutions such as government, campaigners and industry dissect human behavioral patterns and exploit them for purposes of pushing bills, obtaining votes, or consumer marketing of products.

If you want a better source about what devious devices economics marketing entails, see the book "Predictably Irrational" by Dan Ariely. A fascinating book on how we can be manipulated according to how our brains are wired. Book review:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/16/books/review/Berreby-t.html

 

[Lagboltz]

American progressives tend to support interventionist economics: they advocate income redistribution, and they oppose the growing influence of corporations.

If I reword that to: "they advocate progressive taxes and oppose deregulation of corporations." Then I am a progressive, (along with being liberal).

Let me get back to your original question on why there is disagreement.

Our brains are hardwired differently. We look at the world and see problems that you can't agree with or think are nonsense. You look at the world and see problems that we can't agree with or think are nonsense. We strongly know that we are right and you are wrong. You strongly know that you are right and we are wrong.

You will never understand us and we will never understand you. Our brains are hardwired differently.

 

[Andy]

If I reword that to: "they advocate progressive taxes and oppose deregulation of corporations." Then I am a progressive, (along with being liberal).

Let me get back to your original question on why there is disagreement.

Our brains are hardwired differently. We look at the world and see problems that you can't agree with or think are nonsense. You look at the world and see problems that we can't agree with or think are nonsense. We strongly know that we are right and you are wrong. You strongly know that you are right and we are wrong.

You will never understand us and we will never understand you. Our brains are hardwired differently.

We look at history, and see the effects and results of your supported policies, and know they fail. You look at intent and nebulas motives like greed, to justify your theories that never the less, fail.

I wish more people learned basic economics. Then we wouldn't have such ignorant policies supported.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Why do you have more respect for our nations enemies than your fellow Americans?

When it comes to the people who wish our nation harm... you want to talk to them with peaceful understanding and avoid making them out as bad people.
Yet, when it comes to fellow Americans who disagree, you want to scream at them, call them horrible names, and make them out to be the worst people on earth.

When it comes to the nations who would like to see the destruction of America, you say they have some legitimate complaints which we should amicably address.
Yet, when it comes to fellow Americans who disagree with you.... you don't recognize any of their complaints as legitimate and heap ridicule upon them for daring to disagree.

You don't want to force America's will on other nations for our own national interest or security, but your fine with forcing the progressive will on Americans that disagree with you, specifically because you believe its in the nations best interest.

So tell me, why is it that so many of you on the left are ready to deal with the sworn enemies our nation by using the carrot, but treat your fellow Americans using only the stick?

You may consider yourselves Progressive, but here in America - toward your fellow Americans - you guys are nothing but Oppressive.

why is the right always wrong?

 

[Andy]

why is the right always wrong?

When has it been wrong?

 

[pocketfullofshells]

When has it been wrong?

I just said always, geez listen

 

[Mr. Shaman]

why is the right always wrong?

Typically, it's the end-result of "conservatives'" Wishful-Thinking/Negative-Proof-Syndrome.....quite-often the result of limited-personal-experiences of much of anything.

The "conservative" thought-process is an aberation (regarding U.S. History). This country was formed (and, is continually enhanced) by risk-takers.

The only times "conservatives" take any risks, is when there is (in their minds) a 100%-guarantee things are gonna work-out, and.....any of the (actual) work is done by someone else.

 

[Hobo1]

GenSeneca - I am a conservative, but I think I can answer your question.

American people are like a bunch of friends and family - you know you can argue and complain through Thanksgiving dinner on everything from politics to finances. Yet, in your heart, you still regard them all as great people.

On the other hand, foreign countries (whom you call enemies)) are like people that you don't know. When you first meet them you may not particularly like their style or even their ideas, but you at least give them the courtesy of being outwardly friendly. Who knows, after you get to know them better they may not turn out to be so bad after all. And if you happen to live in the same neighborhood, chances are you will figure out a way so you can at least tolerate the stranger without yelling and screaming.

Its kind of the way things work in this world, right?

 

[Lagboltz]

We look at history, and see the effects and results of your supported policies, and know they fail. You look at intent and nebulas motives like greed, to justify your theories that never the less, fail.

You are absolutely wrong. It is the conservatives that have nebulas motives and greed and continually drive our country to the brink of disaster.

Like I said before, "We strongly know that we are right and you are wrong. You strongly know that you are right and we are wrong. You will never understand us and we will never understand you. Our brains are hardwired differently."

I wish more people learned basic economics. Then we wouldn't have such ignorant policies supported.

Amen. Moreover, I wish congressmen and senators and presidents knew more about economics. They generally have backgrounds in law. Few have a background in economics.

 

[GenSeneca]

If I reword that to: "they advocate progressive taxes and oppose deregulation of corporations." Then I am a progressive, (along with being liberal).

You're not just against deregulation though, you are for greater regulation and intervention in the market. Progressives don't like the capitalist principles of a free market, they want a controlled economy - one that doesn't grow to fast or crash to low. Problem with that is, its an absurd theory and becomes disastrous when its made policy.

Our brains are hardwired differently. We look at the world and see problems that you can't agree with or think are nonsense. You look at the world and see problems that we can't agree with or think are nonsense. We strongly know that we are right and you are wrong. You strongly know that you are right and we are wrong.

You will never understand us and we will never understand you. Our brains are hardwired differently.

Patently false... just ask Vyo, he's one of the few on the left willing to admit he's changed his position based on being given a more convincing argument.

Its not because we are "hardwired", its learned.

It is the conservatives that have nebulas motives and greed and continually drive our country to the brink of disaster.

This statement makes it crystal clear you neither recognize nor understand the distinctions between Conservatives and ALL the other political doctrines that coexist on the Right.

Perhaps you could provide an example of a conservative politician (NOT JUST A REPUBLICAN) and talk about his "nebulous" motives, explain why he is greedy and how he has driven the country to the brink of disaster....

BTW, the most nebulous motive I've ever heard is doing something for the "Common Good". Also, if its "greed" when I expect to keep what I earn, is it not covetous of you to take it from me in the name of "fairness" (another nebulous motive). And as for the ideology truly responsible for bringing our country "to the brink of disaster", it resides on both the Right and the Left - its Statism.

 

[Lagboltz]

You're not just against deregulation though, you are for greater regulation and intervention in the market.

Right, I am for regulation, but I don't know what you mean by intervention if it is anything other than regulation.

Its not because we are "hardwired", its learned.

Many things are learned. But the deep seated traits of humans are embedded in the anterior portion of the frontal lobe and are hardwired. It is these traits that can often override logic and make people obstinate about their social, religious, and political inclinations, for example. Your embedded fears and inclinations are different than mine.

This statement makes it crystal clear you neither recognize nor understand the distinctions between Conservatives and ALL the other political doctrines that coexist on the Right.

No, actually it makes it crystal clear that I am being facetious and can make dogmatic abstractions as well as anyone else here.