Ecofascist Disasters

[Libsmasher]

I live in Alaska, not on the moon. Of course I know about Chernobyl. There was concern that some of that fallout came over the pole and landed in Alaska. But you really are comparing apples and oranges IMHO. One will only know what horrors will be unveiled when China opens more.

You ascribed environmental disasters to capitalism - they only other widespread system that that could be compared with (at that time) was the communists.

 

[Libsmasher]

I would agree, but Libsmasher who you quote in your statement went on to blame liberals for the ills of ethanol. But then again, my republican zealot friend wants to blame all the ills of the world in "libs"

If I were a lib, I'd try to duck the liberal record too, but it won't wash. In dec 2007, the DEMOCRAT congress passed new cafe standards:

This afternoon, the energy bill that requires 35 mpg by 2020 CAFE handily passed Congress. After passing in the Senate last week, the first increase in average fleet fuel economy in 32 years sailed through the House of Representatives 314-100. The auto industry's best friend in Congress, Rep. John Dingell, D-Mich., "was key to a compromise on vehicle efficiency increases," as the AP put it. As we mentioned, part of that compromise meant stripping out tax provisions for renewable energy requirements and the elimination of new incentives for plug-in hybrid vehicles. Oil companies were also spared higher taxes. President Bush has said he will sign the bill.

The new CAFE standard is part of a broad energy bill and includes a massive boost to ethanol producers. As the AP reports:

In a dramatic shift to spur increased demand for nonfossil fuels, the bill also requires a six-fold increase in ethanol use to 36 billion gallons a year by 2022, a boon to farmers. And it requires new energy efficiency standards for an array of appliances, lighting and commercial and government buildings.

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/12/18/its-official-congress-passes-35-mpg-cafe-standard/

I've always wondered why the yokels in Iowa vote for leftwing politicians, only the latest being Obama - now we know why lately: there's GOLD in them there ears o' corn!

 

[Libsmasher]

Pretty much that is what it is despite the efforts of some to paint it as a left/right "eco-nuts" issue.

The problem is - unintended consequences. Who would have guessed that the push for biofuels (a push in this country fueled by agricultural corn interests - a very powerful interest group)

Ahhh, another attempt to bail out ecolunatics, by mumbling about "agricultural corn interests". As I already said, farmers wouldn't have produced a drop of this with just market forces. They were convinced ONLY when the congress offered subsidies, that in turn was due to the lobbying of the ecofascist organizations. The total such subsidies were $7 billion in 2006. At that level of freebies, farmers would make candy bars out of cow dung. (Oh, GEEZ! I just gave some ecowingnut another idea! )

http://zfacts.com/p/63.html

 

[Coyote]

Ahhh, another attempt to bail out ecolunatics, by mumbling about "agricultural corn interests". As I already said, farmers wouldn't have produced a drop of this with just market forces. They were convinced ONLY when the congress offered subsidies, that in turn was due to the lobbying of the ecofascist organizations. The total such subsidies were $7 billion in 2006. At that level of freebies, farmers would make candy bars out of cow dung. (Oh, GEEZ! I just gave some ecowingnut another idea! )

http://zfacts.com/p/63.html

Once again - you willfully only see one side of the issue - note, I am making no excuses for anyone here but you certainly appear to by ignoring the very real effects of market and agri-business interests.

How powerful is the corn lobby? http://www.thebernoullieffect.com/archives/2006/09/the_corn_lobby.htm

 

[ilikeboobs]

Ecofascists...I love it!
Thanks to them, we can't drill for our own oil - thus increasing our supply & lowering prices at the pump.

But as long as they're happy riding their bikes to wor....excuse me, I almost made the mistake of thinking any of them actually have jobs.

 

[Coyote]

Ecofascists...I love it!
Thanks to them, we can't drill for our own oil - thus increasing our supply & lowering prices at the pump.

But as long as they're happy riding their bikes to wor....excuse me, I almost made the mistake of thinking any of them actually have jobs.

I'm sure you enjoyed swimming in the wake of the Exxon Valdez spill too

 

[Libsmasher]

Once again - you willfully only see one side of the issue - note, I am making no excuses for anyone here but you certainly appear to by ignoring the very real effects of market and agri-business interests.

How powerful is the corn lobby? http://www.thebernoullieffect.com/archives/2006/09/the_corn_lobby.htm

You just don't get it - when the government distorts the market at the behest of ecolunatics who think they have it all figured out, OF COURSE the market responds in the corresponding distorted way. To blame all this on anything but the initial distorters indicates either stupidity or a simple refusal to place blame where it correctly goes.

 

[Bunz]

You ascribed environmental disasters to capitalism - they only other widespread system that that could be compared with (at that time) was the communists.

I didnt ascribe anything to capitalism. Nor did I mention communists.
You mentioned liberals and communists in the same bunch. That is a far stretch.
Not everyone who cares about the enviroment is an ecofacist liberalnutcase commonazi. Give it a break.

Redirecting the end product a single crop is used for is hardly an ecodisaster.
Its a human rights disaster is people are starving. But people have been starving for as long as humans....

But if you want to talk about eco disasters, in America I named three that were caused by industry that the right is owned by. Then those companies have hid under every loophole they can find, from appealing every decision to the supreme court to declaring bankruptcy or making enough campaign contributions to ensure legislation in thier favor. Then when they screw it up. Guess who is left holding the bag? The people who were often told not to worry that nothing will go wrong. And when it does, thier kids get cancer, thier recreational areas are destroyed, and the American tax payer is left holding the bag.
So if you want to bash the left about being ecofacists you ought to really think about the actions and reactions of the messes that industry has caused.

 

[Bunz]

If I were a lib, I'd try to duck the liberal record too, but it won't wash. In dec 2007, the DEMOCRAT congress passed new cafe standards:

Holy geez the sky is falling. 35mpg, what a horrible idea! With energy prices through the roof, high demand, and no end in sight. Plus they have at least 12 years to do it, more likely 20 years.

I've always wondered why the yokels in Iowa vote for leftwing politicians, only the latest being Obama - now we know why lately: there's GOLD in them there ears o' corn!

Yeah those damn Iowans, Id hate for them to get the highest price they can for thier crops. I am begining to think your a closet lib.

 

[Libsmasher]

I didnt ascribe anything to capitalism. Nor did I mention communists.

I think most people will accept your "corporate puppet masters" as a condemnation of capitalism.

You mentioned liberals and communists in the same bunch. That is a far stretch.

Communists are libs ideological cousins - both think whatever the problem, government is the solution.

Not everyone who cares about the enviroment is an ecofacist liberalnutcase commonazi.

No, but, ecofascists DO exist - eg the ones who want to throw tens of millions of people out of work and cause other radical social upheavals based on their AGW theology - the earth has warmed (gasp! sob! whimper!) ONE DEGREE in the last century! Sniff!

Redirecting the end product a single crop is used for is hardly an ecodisaster.
Its a human rights disaster is people are starving. But people have been starving for as long as humans....

Yeah, I see your point - why worry about this particular ecolunatic brainstorm starving people all over the globe? People have always starved - good point.

But if you want to talk about eco disasters, in America I named three that were caused by industry that the right is owned by. Then those companies have hid under every loophole they can find, from appealing every decision to the supreme court to declaring bankruptcy or making enough campaign contributions to ensure legislation in thier favor. Then when they screw it up. Guess who is left holding the bag? The people who were often told not to worry that nothing will go wrong. And when it does, thier kids get cancer, thier recreational areas are destroyed, and the American tax payer is left holding the bag.
So if you want to bash the left about being ecofacists you ought to really think about the actions and reactions of the messes that industry has caused.

I'n sure they'll all be cases that originated before everyone realized the environment isa problem.

 

[Libsmasher]

Holy geez the sky is falling. 35mpg, what a horrible idea! With energy prices through the roof, high demand, and no end in sight. Plus they have at least 12 years to do it, more likely 20 years.

Missed the WHOLE SECOND PART of my post? What do you do - a quick scan and register a few key words?? Here it is again - focus now: Besides the mileage standards that will increase highway death rates by forcing people into small cars, the legislation institutionalized the ethanol fiasco:

The new CAFE standard is part of a broad energy bill and includes a massive boost to ethanol producers. As the AP reports:

In a dramatic shift to spur increased demand for nonfossil fuels, the bill also requires a six-fold increase in ethanol use to 36 billion gallons a year by 2022, a boon to farmers. And it requires new energy efficiency standards for an array of appliances, lighting and commercial and government buildings.

Yeah those damn Iowans, Id hate for them to get the highest price they can for thier crops. I am begining to think your a closet lib.

HAR! Usually libs whine about corporate greed - here's a corporate greed cheerleader!

 

[Coyote]

You just don't get it - when the government distorts the market at the behest of ecolunatics who think they have it all figured out, OF COURSE the market responds in the corresponding distorted way. To blame all this on anything but the initial distorters indicates either stupidity or a simple refusal to place blame where it correctly goes.

Of course...it's ALWAYS the fault of the liberal ecofascist (or is it econazi's)....yawn....

 

[Libsmasher]

Of course...it's ALWAYS the fault of the liberal ecofascist (or is it econazi's)....yawn....

You're afraid to debate - loser ...........yawnnnn.,,,

 

[Bunz]

Lib, you continually avoid the issues surrounding the raise of the ecology movement.
Which came as a result of people getting tired of having thier air water and soil polluted here in America. Most of which is done by large corporations as I pointed out earlier.

We arent talking about preventing more corn from being grown. We are talking about a percentage of it being used in another way.

I would propose all the corn syrup currently used in soda in America be moved instead to the production of ethanol.

 

[Libsmasher]

Lib, you continually avoid the issues surrounding the raise of the ecology movement.
Which came as a result of people getting tired of having thier air water and soil polluted here in America. Most of which is done by large corporations as I pointed out earlier.

We arent talking about preventing more corn from being grown. We are talking about a percentage of it being used in another way.

I would propose all the corn syrup currently used in soda in America be moved instead to the production of ethanol.

No, YOU are doing the avoiding of the issue raised in the OP, which is that environmentalist wackos who think they have everything figured out use their friends in congress to implement their ill-thought out solutions (understatement) to create havoc, from deadly light cars, to starving people around the globe because they thing burning food would be a great idea. There was a case in California I'm trying to find a link to: some people in a rural area wanted to cut down brush within 100 feet of their houses as per fire district recommendations, but the government told them, at the behest of envirowackos not to because there was some kind of endangered rat species on the land. Do I really have to tell you what happened? Next fire season, the houses AND rats burned to the ground. Want to hear the latest in California? They are probably going to impose water rationing on the WHOLE STATE this summer because of one crummy 3-inch long fish in the sacramento delta:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2007/09/01/MNPCRT83Q.DTL