End government schools

[9sublime]

Private schools need to get their money from the students parents paying fees though, and so they would need the government to reimburse them what they have lost by not recieving full fees from the parents.

As a result, the state would have to pay the private school fees, probably cancelling out the money they would save from the schemes.

Also, more private schools would need to be built to accomidate this.

 

[invest07]

9sublime

The voucher student would receive 90% of the public school students cost. The voucher student could then chose any private school they wanted and would be responsible for paying the entire tuition.

Example - the public schools spend $10K/year/student. The voucher student would receive $9K and the public schools would receive $1K. If the private school tutition was $12K/year, the parent would have to come up with the $3K shortfall. No government funds here. If the private schjool tutition was $8K, the parent would pocket a windfall. This would provide a strong incentive to hold down costs.

Yes there would have to be a lot of private schools built. So what? They would be private and not a public obligation. No tax free bonds to sell and no extra taxes needed.

Why is the governemnt in the education business, anyway? The federal governemnt is the least efficient mechanism known to man. They don't do anything well and everything costs out the yingyang. Any private enterprise with even marginally competent management can beat the crap out of the government.

Turn the new students over to the private sector. They will do a much better job than the guvmint.

 

[9sublime]

But the government needs to give the student the 9K, and the private school 1k, and where does that come from? The tax payers pocket, and so they would still have to pay taxes for education despite the government not getting involved.

 

[invest07]

9sublime
My proposal for growth vouchers does not remove the governemnt entirely from the equation but it does partly withdraw the gov from schools.

1. The public school enrollment would stay about the same and would not grow over time. As population increases, a smaller percent of students would attend public schools. The Feds affect on education would be diminished.

2. No new public obligations such as construction bond issues or new taxes would be needed.

The full reimbursement per student would remain but the funds would be redistributed. The funds returned directly to the voucher student are actually a return to the parent of taxes they have already paid (sales tax, gas tax, property tax, auto tags, etc ad nauseum.)

In the long run growth vouchers would have the effect of lowering the cost of schools as new construction would not be needed, and the spending per piblic school student could rise. (It could also remain the same and taxes be lowered.)

The Feds have made a committment to Public Education. The only argument we can make is how to divvy up the pie and how to reduce the cost per capita in the future.

 

[dahermit]

Wrong government.

Why is the government in the education business, anyway? The federal government is the least efficient mechanism known to man.

Just in case you do not know, the education of public school students is the responsibility of state government not the federal government. The federal government has no responsibility according to constitutional interpretation. Any thing to federal government does is an add on program for the state system of public schools. Except for these add ons from the Fed. public schools are financed by each state and local school districts.

A former teacher.

 

[heyjude]

Part of the problem was the revolt against property taxes. That meant that other funds had to be provided for schools. Who ever pays will decide how the money is spent. If you don't want the federal government telling you how to run your local schools, the solution is simple. Don't take their money.

It has been part of the right-wing Republican agenda since day one to destroy the public school system. And vouchers is their solution. Most people, even with vouchers, could not afford private schools for their children. What they will be able to afford is religious schools. This is a recruiting tool for them. "Give me a child until he is eight, and he is mine forever." That is a Christian proverb.

I will never pay Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Shinto, or any other religion to brainwash a child. Pay for your own brainwashing.

 

[USMC the Almighty]

Pay for your own brainwashing.

You don't think that the public schools brainwash kids? I wasn't in school too long ago, and I still remember feeling compelled to regurgitate what the teachers would say in class on topics such as politics, religion, or history or else my grades would be penalized.

 

[9sublime]

Can't say I ever felt that, but I don't know how different the schools really are in the UK and the US.

In GCSE English Poetry, you get marks for making points that you would not hear in class from the teacher, or challenging interpretations that are taught.

 

[vyo476]

You don't think that the public schools brainwash kids? I wasn't in school too long ago, and I still remember feeling compelled to regurgitate what the teachers would say in class on topics such as politics, religion, or history or else my grades would be penalized.

Public schools these days do tend to lean towards brainwashing rather than teaching.

It hit me worst in English - I failed several papers simply because the teacher disagreed with my opinion.

 

[steveox]

I agree!!! End Public Schools and make the parents pay the school bill & Uniforms. NOT TAXPAYERS!!

 

[dahermit]

another side to the story?

Public schools these days do tend to lean towards brainwashing rather than teaching.

It hit me worst in English - I failed several papers simply because the teacher disagreed with my opinion.

Too bad your teacher is not on this board...we could hear the other side of the story.

 

[vyo476]

Too bad your teacher is not on this board...we could hear the other side of the story.

I had several very good teachers throughout high school. This one in particular was not one of them.

She taught a course in American Literature. Amongst the books we read was Kate Chopin's The Awakening. For my final essay, I wrote that the lead character need not have killed herself - there's always an alternative to suicide. I got the paper back with a big 'ole fifty at the top and a quick message underneath: "You're wrong. Write it again."

Another of my English teachers was quite fond of praising quantity over quality. We would have class discussions on Margaret Taylor's Dinner at the Homesick Restaurant. While the rest of my class would receive A's for sitting around making plenty of comments about how the abusive mother of the novel appeared "upset" and "a little unhinged," I and a few of my friends would receive lower grades for only throwing out one or two comments on such things as Taylor's usage of stream-of-consciousness or the psychological factors involved in becoming an abusive parent - comments that would be bowled over by the rest of the class, who didn't want to have to actually think and just wanted the grade.

My other two English teachers in high school were much better. Sadly, both of them left the school shortly after I had them - one on maternity leave, the other for retirement (he'd been teaching for well over thirty years).

I'm not saying that all education is brainwashing. Just that it is used quite often in public schools today. Once I got to college, I felt as though I was in the middle of my own personal intellectual revolution. I think the problem, at my high school anyway, is that high schools these days are trying to emphasize individuality while they're trying to teach the same thing to everyone. If they'd just stick to the basics and leave it to us to come up with who we are I think everyone would be a lot happier.

 

[numinus]

Any reasonable person will admit that the government school system overall has been a failure. The whole system should be privatized, with ideally parents paying their own education bills. The education costs of poor or handicapped children can be paid for with taxes.

If one subscribes to the adage that education is a RIGHT, not a privilege, then the most logical step for government is to provide it for free.

Understand that knowledge is the patrimony of mankind - not a commodity to be bartered with those who can afford it.

 

[r0beph]

I had several very good teachers throughout high school. This one in particular was not one of them.

She taught a course in American Literature. Amongst the books we read was Kate Chopin's The Awakening. For my final essay, I wrote that the lead character need not have killed herself - there's always an alternative to suicide. I got the paper back with a big 'ole fifty at the top and a quick message underneath: "You're wrong. Write it again."

Another of my English teachers was quite fond of praising quantity over quality. We would have class discussions on Margaret Taylor's Dinner at the Homesick Restaurant. While the rest of my class would receive A's for sitting around making plenty of comments about how the abusive mother of the novel appeared "upset" and "a little unhinged," I and a few of my friends would receive lower grades for only throwing out one or two comments on such things as Taylor's usage of stream-of-consciousness or the psychological factors involved in becoming an abusive parent - comments that would be bowled over by the rest of the class, who didn't want to have to actually think and just wanted the grade.

My other two English teachers in high school were much better. Sadly, both of them left the school shortly after I had them - one on maternity leave, the other for retirement (he'd been teaching for well over thirty years).

I'm not saying that all education is brainwashing. Just that it is used quite often in public schools today. Once I got to college, I felt as though I was in the middle of my own personal intellectual revolution. I think the problem, at my high school anyway, is that high schools these days are trying to emphasize individuality while they're trying to teach the same thing to everyone. If they'd just stick to the basics and leave it to us to come up with who we are I think everyone would be a lot happier.

Ah English, a favorite subject of mine. I once had a teacher who felt her opinion weighted in on the quality of my essays for her class. What I ended up doing while failing the class because I simply refused to submit papers that disagreed with my true opinion when the option of what we were to write was left up to us. I ended up seeing my assistant principle and luckily he had an English doctorate and on reading my papers he called the teacher in and had a nice talking to with her. That's one of the reason I actually liked public school, where I went grievances would often be handled in a decent manner. He told her that we were supposed to be learning how to write the essays, not be coached on how to think. I think the paper I'd submitted was about some short essay in which a woman's brush with cancer made her think differently about life. I found it somewhat egocentric and didn't really agree with a lot of what the lady had said, and I said so. I ended up with a 80 something on that essay from the 64 she gave me. Sometimes you win.

 

[vyo476]

Ah English, a favorite subject of mine. I once had a teacher who felt her opinion weighted in on the quality of my essays for her class. What I ended up doing while failing the class because I simply refused to submit papers that disagreed with my true opinion when the option of what we were to write was left up to us. I ended up seeing my assistant principle and luckily he had an English doctorate and on reading my papers he called the teacher in and had a nice talking to with her. That's one of the reason I actually liked public school, where I went grievances would often be handled in a decent manner. He told her that we were supposed to be learning how to write the essays, not be coached on how to think. I think the paper I'd submitted was about some short essay in which a woman's brush with cancer made her think differently about life. I found it somewhat egocentric and didn't really agree with a lot of what the lady had said, and I said so. I ended up with a 80 something on that essay from the 64 she gave me. Sometimes you win.

I wish I'd had your experience. The administration in my high school were too preoccupied with cracking down on drugs and not letting the football team get suspended to deal with such mundane things as students with problems.

I'm majoring in English now in college and I have to say, the experience here is one hundred million times better than the one I had in high school. I have more room to breathe academically. I guess that's just the nature of the beast.