Facts? Don't confuse me with facts!

[PLC1]

One more fact


You nor anyone has any idea how hot the planet has been in the past, for all we know its a cycle. we get hot then we have an ice age then we get hot again and have another ice age.

We do know how warm the Earth has been in historic times, just as I said. Now, before there were modern humans and thermometers, we still know the history of warming and cooling of the planet by evidence found in tree rings and ice core samples, among other things.

And we do know that there have been warming and cooling cycles in the past, based on the data I just described. As I said, the concentration of CO2 and the temperature of the Earth are facts, that there is a connection is an opinion. It is one with some facts to back it up, but an opinion nevertheless.

 

[Pandora]

We do know how warm the Earth has been in historic times, just as I said. Now, before there were modern humans and thermometers, we still know the history of warming and cooling of the planet by evidence found in tree rings and ice core samples, among other things.

And we do know that there have been warming and cooling cycles in the past, based on the data I just described. As I said, the concentration of CO2 and the temperature of the Earth are facts, that there is a connection is an opinion. It is one with some facts to back it up, but an opinion nevertheless.

I am unaware of any scientific data that can prove average temps over years or hundreds of years. Round figures and guestimations but nothing solid.

There are scientists today and creditable ones at that who claim we are heading into another ice age.

I know we have been in a solar minimum and just heading into a solar max and that will most likely make things hotter for a while. But that has nothing to do with cows farting or my SUV.

If we are heading into global cooling or global warming taxing energy for us and giving the money to 3d world countries is not going to help, its just going to hurt even more.

I dont think anyone would care if AlGore and T Turner wanted to scream from the roof tops that the end is coming and we are going to melt exc, as long as the jerk offs dont try and tax us for their unproven ideas. Just like most dont care that Benny Henn says the end is near, if you are dumb enough to send him money ok but no one is forced so no one cares that he says it. If a law passed that we all had to donate to benny henns cause people would start caring what crap benny henn was saying

 

[PLC1]

I am unaware of any scientific data that can prove average temps over years or hundreds of years. Round figures and guestimations but nothing solid.

We know that there was an ice age that ended around 10,000 years ago. No, we can't say that on a particular day 10,000 BCE, the temperature was 32 degrees in what is now Nebraska, but we can trace the cycles of warm and cool times.

There are scientists today and creditable ones at that who claim we are heading into another ice age.

That hypothesis was thrown out at least 20 or more years ago, which is what happens when hypotheses don't match up with new facts and observations. No credible, peer reviewed climatologists are saying that we're heading into another ice age.

I know we have been in a solar minimum and just heading into a solar max and that will most likely make things hotter for a while. But that has nothing to do with cows farting or my SUV.

The Earth is warming: fact. It has nothing to do with cow farts or your SUV: opinion. Science tells us that it is likely that human activities are accelerating global warming, not that cow farts or your SUV will bring about the end of civilization.

If we are heading into global cooling or global warming taxing energy for us and giving the money to 3d world countries is not going to help, its just going to hurt even more.

That is an opinion. It is one I share, but it is an opinion nonetheless.

I dont think anyone would care if AlGore and T Turner wanted to scream from the roof tops that the end is coming and we are going to melt exc, as long as the jerk offs dont try and tax us for their unproven ideas. Just like most dont care that Benny Henn says the end is near, if you are dumb enough to send him money ok but no one is forced so no one cares that he says it. If a law passed that we all had to donate to benny henns cause people would start caring what crap benny henn was saying

Benny Henn?

No, I don't care what Al Gore or Ted Turner have to say about the issue either. Neither of them is a climate scientist, and neither of them has presented any peer reviewed studies or any new facts or observations.

Likewise, I care not a whit what Shaun Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, or Glenn Beck have to say on the issue, and for the same reason.

 

[Pandora]

We know that there was an ice age that ended around 10,000 years ago. No, we can't say that on a particular day 10,000 BCE, the temperature was 32 degrees in what is now Nebraska, but we can trace the cycles of warm and cool times.



That hypothesis was thrown out at least 20 or more years ago, which is what happens when hypotheses don't match up with new facts and observations. No credible, peer reviewed climatologists are saying that we're heading into another ice age.



The Earth is warming: fact. It has nothing to do with cow farts or your SUV: opinion. Science tells us that it is likely that human activities are accelerating global warming, not that cow farts or your SUV will bring about the end of civilization.



That is an opinion. It is one I share, but it is an opinion nonetheless.



Benny Henn?

No, I don't care what Al Gore or Ted Turner have to say about the issue either. Neither of them is a climate scientist, and neither of them has presented any peer reviewed studies or any new facts or observations.

Likewise, I care not a whit what Shaun Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, or Glenn Beck have to say on the issue, and for the same reason.

Play devils advocate for me

You feel it is an opinion that if we over charge people/company's in the US for energy and then give other countries our money and give them green lights to over pollute it will not change global warming. So in a way we agree but what is odd to me is that you feel its an opinion.

If we are polluting less and being charged more then in turn give third world countries the extra money we were taxed and the green light to pollute more and they would have the money to produce aka pollute more and also we would be without so we would desire to buy those excess products they polluted more to make.'


how on earth is it an opinion that it would not help global warming. it would just be having other countries do the polluting but the polluting would still be made.

I am unsure how that can be deemed an opinion.

It just seems like logical common sense.

 

[GenSeneca]

Science tells us that it is likely that human activities are accelerating global warming

It's also a scientific fact that if I take a piss in the ocean while the tide is coming in I've contributed to the volume and my activities have accelerated the tide. It's not statistically relevant, but it is a fact.

 

[Gipper]

It's also a scientific fact that if I take a piss in the ocean while the tide is coming in I've contributed to the volume and my activities have accelerated the tide. It's not statistically relevant, but it is a fact.

Hey that is a great analogy of man made global warming. And many useful idiots believe...

Giant ice island breaks off Greenland
WASHINGTON (AP) - A giant ice island has broken off the Petermann Glacier in northern Greenland.

A University of Delaware researcher says the floating ice sheet covers 100 square miles _ more than four times the size of New York's Manhattan Island.

Andreas Muenchow, who is studying the Nares Strait between Greenland and Canada, said the ice sheet broke off early Thursday. He says the new ice island was discovered by Trudy Wohlleben of the Canadian Ice Service.

Not since 1962 has such a large chunk of ice calved in the Arctic, but researchers have noticed cracks in recent months in the floating tongue of the glacier.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/aug/7/giant-ice-island-breaks-off-greenland/

Oh no!!!!!!!!!! We are all going to die...unless we impose worldwide Marxism.

But why would Al Gore (libs love him) buy a home on the Pacific coast? Libs can't figure that one out...

 

[PLC1]

Play devils advocate for me

You feel it is an opinion that if we over charge people/company's in the US for energy and then give other countries our money and give them green lights to over pollute it will not change global warming. So in a way we agree but what is odd to me is that you feel its an opinion.

If we are polluting less and being charged more then in turn give third world countries the extra money we were taxed and the green light to pollute more and they would have the money to produce aka pollute more and also we would be without so we would desire to buy those excess products they polluted more to make.'


how on earth is it an opinion that it would not help global warming. it would just be having other countries do the polluting but the polluting would still be made.

I am unsure how that can be deemed an opinion.

It just seems like logical common sense.

Facts are facts, and opinions are opinions.

I used to have to teach the difference to fourth graders. Of course, that requires making things as simple as possible so that nine year olds can grasp the concept.

I would start by explaining the difference, then giving examples and asking them to give a thumbs up to facts, thumbs down to opinions so i would know if they were getting it or not.

I'd say, "The sky is blue", and sure enough, it was a sunny day. Thumbs up all over the room. Then I'd get to my favorite: "Chocolate ice cream tastes better than vanilla."

Since at least 90% or more of nine year olds prefer chocolate, I'd get a lot of thumbs up and uncertainty. How do you prove that chocolate tastes better than vanilla?

Then I'd take an informal poll: How many prefer chocolate (the vast majority).

Then I'd show them that we now have a fact to back up the opinion: Fact, a majority of the students prefer chocolate. Opinion backed up by the fact, but still an opinion: Chocolate tastes better than vanilla.

The point of all of that is that an opinion, even when backed up by facts and widely shared, is still an opinion. That doesn't mean it's wrong, of course, just that it is not a fact.

Likewise, it is not a fact that passing cap and trade isn't going to stop global warming. It is an opinion that can be supported by facts, but still an opinion.

 

[Pandora]

Facts are facts, and opinions are opinions.

I used to have to teach the difference to fourth graders. Of course, that requires making things as simple as possible so that nine year olds can grasp the concept.

I would start by explaining the difference, then giving examples and asking them to give a thumbs up to facts, thumbs down to opinions so i would know if they were getting it or not.

I'd say, "The sky is blue", and sure enough, it was a sunny day. Thumbs up all over the room. Then I'd get to my favorite: "Chocolate ice cream tastes better than vanilla."

Since at least 90% or more of nine year olds prefer chocolate, I'd get a lot of thumbs up and uncertainty. How do you prove that chocolate tastes better than vanilla?

Then I'd take an informal poll: How many prefer chocolate (the vast majority).

Then I'd show them that we now have a fact to back up the opinion: Fact, a majority of the students prefer chocolate. Opinion backed up by the fact, but still an opinion: Chocolate tastes better than vanilla.

The point of all of that is that an opinion, even when backed up by facts and widely shared, is still an opinion. That doesn't mean it's wrong, of course, just that it is not a fact.

Likewise, it is not a fact that passing cap and trade isn't going to stop global warming. It is an opinion that can be supported by facts, but still an opinion.

The first part of your post was really cute.

the last 2 lines... ugh!


ok what ever

 

[PLC1]

The first part of your post was really cute.

the last 2 lines... ugh!


ok what ever

so, you still don't see how fourth graders thinking that chocolate ice cream tasting better than vanilla is a fact is the same thing as adults thinking that cap and trade isn't going to stop global warming is a fact?

It's the same idea. A fact can be confirmed or disproved definitively. An opinion can't.

If the government did pass cap and trade, and global warming did continue, then we'd have a fact:

We passed cap and trade, and global warming didn't stop. Verifiable fact. Cap and trade won't stop global warming is still an opinion. It's an opinion backed by fact, but still an opinion.

After all, maybe we just didn't give it enough time.

It would be much like the trickle down theory: We tried it, and the deficit increased. That's a fact. The trickle down theory doesn't work: still an opinion.

Even my own cherished opinions still aren't facts, and neither are yours.

 

[Pandora]

so, you still don't see how fourth graders thinking that chocolate ice cream tasting better than vanilla is a fact is the same thing as adults thinking that cap and trade isn't going to stop global warming is a fact?

It's the same idea. A fact can be confirmed or disproved definitively. An opinion can't.

If the government did pass cap and trade, and global warming did continue, then we'd have a fact:

We passed cap and trade, and global warming didn't stop. Verifiable fact. Cap and trade won't stop global warming is still an opinion. It's an opinion backed by fact, but still an opinion.

After all, maybe we just didn't give it enough time.

It would be much like the trickle down theory: We tried it, and the deficit increased. That's a fact. The trickle down theory doesn't work: still an opinion.

Even my own cherished opinions still aren't facts, and neither are yours.

Yeah I got the whole ice cream part.

The last line I found irritating

If you stuck a loaded working gun in your mouth and pulled the trigger its only an opinion it would kill you, some have survived it so its not exactly a fact either. But if you use your noodle you know its going to kill you. but then again thats not really a fact so its worth arguing

 

[PLC1]

Yeah I got the whole ice cream part.

The last line I found irritating

If you stuck a loaded working gun in your mouth and pulled the trigger its only an opinion it would kill you, some have survived it so its not exactly a fact either. But if you use your noodle you know its going to kill you. but then again thats not really a fact so its worth arguing

Correct. If you stick a loaded gun in your mouth and pull the trigger, you will die, is an opinion. It's a pretty good one, and not one that any sane person is going to try to counter, but an opinion nonetheless.

That fool put a loaded gun in his mouth, pulled the trigger, and died, is a fact that can be proven definitively.

Calling a statement an opinion doesn't make it wrong.

Calling opinions facts is wrong.

 

[GenSeneca]

Correct. If you stick a loaded gun in your mouth and pull the trigger, you will die, is an opinion. It's a pretty good one, and not one that any sane person is going to try to counter, but an opinion nonetheless.

That fool put a loaded gun in his mouth, pulled the trigger, and died, is a fact that can be proven definitively.

Calling a statement an opinion doesn't make it wrong.

Calling opinions facts is wrong.

So would you admit that some opinions carry more weight than others?

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Yeah I got the whole ice cream part.

The last line I found irritating

If you stuck a loaded working gun in your mouth and pulled the trigger its only an opinion it would kill you, some have survived it so its not exactly a fact either. But if you use your noodle you know its going to kill you. but then again thats not really a fact so its worth arguing

the Safety was on....

 

[pocketfullofshells]

So would you admit that some opinions carry more weight than others?

of course they do..If in a debate Gipper where to say something...and BigRob...I may not agree with both of them...But Rob's opinion I would give a lot of weight to...especially in areas I know him to be well versed..like Military....Gipper...I would give almost none...

If a scientist from the UN says one thing about global warming, and one from Exxon says something...I know what one I give more weight to...

 

[Pandora]

of course they do..If in a debate Gipper where to say something...and BigRob...I may not agree with both of them...But Rob's opinion I would give a lot of weight to...especially in areas I know him to be well versed..like Military....Gipper...I would give almost none...

If a scientist from the UN says one thing about global warming, and one from Exxon says something...I know what one I give more weight to...

What a silly example, you claim to have Gipper on ignore so how would you know what he said!