Fat America

[Dr.Who]

Sara works mainly with benefits.

Benefit denied.

People should realize that most companies are essentially self-insured, and that the rates are set not by the evil insurance companies, who serves as administrators, but by the companies they work for, which have to finance their insurance primarily out of money paid in. Even the weak form of socialism which is corporate insurance has a bottom line in which money in has balance up with money out. There is no free lunch.

Nice to see someone gets it. the money in always has to balance the money out. And each layer of complexity is an added layer of inefficiency and profit taking.

When the patient pays the doctor there is one layer. Sometimes the doctor and the patient have inefficiencies - like when the patient bounces a check or the book keeper loses it, etc. and of course the doctor needs to make a profit or he won't be able to help any patients.

Unfortunately, often the patient will not be able to pay huge bills that come up unexpectedly. He then decides that he would like to add another layer of complexity by getting insurance. Now the insurance company adds inefficiencies and takes a profit. It is up to the patient to shop around to get the best deal and to compare what he would have paid to the doctor without insurance to what he is paying now.

But then the employer becomes the one who buys the insurance and the patient is more out of the loop. There is even more complexity and more profit taken - and not just by the employer. Now things are confusing enough that the patient doesn't have much chance to compare costs and he certainly can't shop around. He often does not even understand the bills he sees (or not) go between insurance company and doctor.

The the government decided that they need to be involved too - more complexity and more profit taken.

By now the patient has gotten so confused and out of the loop that he has forgotten that the purpose of insurance was to pay for things that were huge and unexpected. Now he buys vision, and dental, and routine exams, etc. And he gets to pay for all the added complexity and profit.

Some of them even forget that the money in always has to balance the money out. They want it all. And they think that just because they don't see a $500/month or $2000/month premium that they are not paying it.

Even if no money comes out of their pocket and Uncle Sam pays the premiums or doctors by taking money from rich guys too stupid to shelter their money or smart enough to pay the tax but get a back room deal at the same time they still pay for it one way or another. If not in premiums then in lower wages or higher prices.

 

[Dr.Who]

I live to eat. It's one of life's primary joys for me. People can preach at me and be self-righteous all they want to to, but I'm not changing my eating style. I don't eat large portions, but I'm not changing what I eat. If it kills me, so what? If people have to give up the joys of life to live, why live?

You Puritans can rail at me all you want. I am revolted by your asceticsm.

Great! I am fine with that....until I pay your premiums. Then I demand that Uncle Sam make you eat as healthy as me. There is no way I want to be forced* to pay for your lifestyle induced illnesses. Sound ridiculous? Didn't this thread start with an article about government trying to regulate the health habits of private citizens?

* I might choose to donate generously to a charity that will help you with your lifestyle induced illnesses but it needs to be my choice.

 

[samsara15]

All I want to be able to check into a hospice when I need to. I don't want you to pay my bills, either. That's quite reasonable of you, not to expect to have to pay for my insurance, and I don''t expect you to do so.

The American way of dying is too expensive, long, and painful...

 

[samsara15]

The Food Police...that's what they call you people. Will you monitor each and every aspect of our lives? They didn't even exercise that much control over people's lives in George Orwell's 1984. Close all the restaurants, issue food licences?

I am quite happy to have a shorter life, if it can be free from that kind of control.

 

[samsara15]

I don't want to pay automobile insurance for people whose vehicles and driving styles make my automobile insurance rates higher, either.

 

[samsara15]

What if insurance rates and/or insurability were based on risk factors - BMI, blood pressure, cholesterol, genetic screening, various tests specified by the insurer? You cannot force people to exercise, nor can you confirm how much they exercise or how faithfully they do so. You can carry this to a level of monitoring of human conduct never before done in human history. Gee, I thought most of you people were opposed to too much goverment control over human lives...

 

[dahermit]

Great! I am fine with that....until I pay your premiums. Then I demand that Uncle Sam make you eat as healthy as me. There is no way I want to be forced* to pay for your lifestyle induced illnesses. Sound ridiculous? Didn't this thread start with an article about government trying to regulate the health habits of private citizens?

* I might choose to donate generously to a charity that will help you with your lifestyle induced illnesses but it needs to be my choice.

You should not have to pay for my lifestyle induced illnesses. I will eat as healthy as you, just have the government truck pull up to my home and deliver the healthy food...many of us cannot afford to eat health food because of poverty. I promise, if you and the government will deliver the food to me free of change, I will eat it, only it, and when I become health, I will not be a burden on your insurance premiums.

 

[samsara15]

The odds are that it will be just as expensive, painful, and slow when all of us die, no matter what we eat, because sooner or later, we will all die, no matter what we eat or what kind of lifestyle we had, and dying in America is almost always expensive, slow, and painful. Nio matter how healthy your life style, you will eventually die.

When my Mother in law, who died at 86, lived in a retirement community, a woman who died in her sleep was the envy of all the people in the retirement home. My Monm is now 91, and I do not envy her those 91 years, because she is very frail.

 

[Dr.Who]

You should not have to pay for my lifestyle induced illnesses. I will eat as healthy as you, just have the government truck pull up to my home and deliver the healthy food...many of us cannot afford to eat health food because of poverty. I promise, if you and the government will deliver the food to me free of change, I will eat it, only it, and when I become health, I will not be a burden on your insurance premiums.

I guarantee that you can eat a healthy diet much cheaper than a diet composed of so called health food or one that is typical of what most poor Americans eat if you stick to: beans, rice, corn, green vegetables, other vegetables, fruit, and a little bit of inexpensive meat or cheese, in that order.

Money is not the issue.

 

[Dr.Who]

What if insurance rates and/or insurability were based on risk factors - BMI, blood pressure, cholesterol, genetic screening, various tests specified by the insurer? You cannot force people to exercise, nor can you confirm how much they exercise or how faithfully they do so. You can carry this to a level of monitoring of human conduct never before done in human history. Gee, I thought most of you people were opposed to too much goverment control over human lives...

Some of those things are already factored in.

As long as we have many many insurance companies to choose from the people who want to abuse their bodies can choose a company that does not charge much for that and the people who do not want to have higher premiums because of the people who abuse their bodies can choose to go with those.

 

[Dr.Who]

I don't want to pay automobile insurance for people whose vehicles and driving styles make my automobile insurance rates higher, either.

You could choose a company that only insured people with good driving records. Well, until Uncle Sam passes the Universal Driver Insurance Bill. If you don't see it under that name then they will call it the Fairness in Driving Act. Or maybe TARP.

 

[Dr.Who]

The Food Police...that's what they call you people. Will you monitor each and every aspect of our lives? They didn't even exercise that much control over people's lives in George Orwell's 1984. Close all the restaurants, issue food licences?

I am quite happy to have a shorter life, if it can be free from that kind of control.

Which political party do you suppose is more likely to stomp on that particular civil right?

 

[samsara15]

The Republican Party, which consistently denies human rights.

 

[Dr.Who]

The Republican Party, which consistently denies human rights.

Go ahead and cite an instance of a Republican trying to pass laws on what people can choose to eat or not.

Then for every one you might find (though I don't think you will find any) I can post two or more Democrats that have tried that.

When it comes to denying human rights the pubs do get that mixed up in there. But the dems include denials of human rights right in their platform and they are not even ashamed.

 

[samsara15]

Which party supported the the equal rights amendment for women? I'll give you a hint, the first letter was not an R.