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Felfare in Michigan

Discussion in 'Business & Economics' started by dahermit, Aug 25, 2008.

  1. dahermit

    dahermit New Member

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    It has just been announced on the news that there are now the highest number of people on welfare than there have ever been in Michigan. As most people know, Michigan has been harder hit by the current recession than any other state.
    It always amazes me(from the conservative viewpoint), that the fewer jobs that there are, that there is in increase of those people who are too lazy to work, where as in good economic times, these same people are willing to work.
    Also never considered by conservatives, 80% of those on welfare are children. Yes, our country would be much better without a welfare system.:rolleyes: Begs the question: What does the conservatives expect people to do in a place like Michigan where the people have run out of unemployment and there are no jobs to be had? Live in dumpsters, scavenge for discarded food, turn into thieves?
     
  2. GenSeneca

    GenSeneca Well-Known Member

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    Thats shameful!

    Every good Socialist knows its the governments responsibility to provide every single American with the following:

    • A Middle Class Job
    • Healthcare Insurance
    • Full Retirement
    • A Nice Home
    • Transportation
    • K-12 Education
    • College Tuition

    “A Government Big Enough to Give You Everything You Want is Powerful Enough to Take Everything You Have” — Thomas Jefferson
     
  3. BigRob

    BigRob Well-Known Member

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    Maybe instead of crying to the government for help they could:

    1) Go back to school
    2) Go to school to begin with
    3) Retrain in another field as their industries have left
    4) Move to another area where there are jobs

    I expect that people would want to take care of themselves, I guess crying to the government for help is the easiest (see laziest) way.
     
  4. dahermit

    dahermit New Member

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    Good Idea...but it takes money...lots of it. And daycare for their children when they are in school.

    Good Idea...many that have lost their jobs have at least a high school education. Are you old enough to remember when NASA laid-off many people years ago it was not unusual to literally find a former "rocket scientist" pushing a hot dog cart, selling hot dogs?...Rocket Scientists had gone to college and had degrees.

    Good Idea. But it takes lots of money. All fields in Michigan (Ohio, Indiana)are in decline. What field would you suggest?

    Good Idea. But nearly impossible without money, and a place to stay with a telephone( employers do not hire off the street, you must apply and wait for a phone call), when they get there. Usually must have first and last months rent and security deposit paid up front.
    Good Idea. But it still takes lots of money. These are people who are hard workers, have worked most of their lives, educated, with children, who have gotten caught up in a recession. They would rather take care of themselves if they had the option. Many even likely talked like you do....before it happened to them.

    You do not seem to understand the problem.
     
  5. dahermit

    dahermit New Member

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    Very intertaining...but does not answer the questions in the post.

    Every good Conservative wants the government to keep the working class from having anything but the bare essentials so that the privileged can have all the luxuries inherent to an opulent lifestyle.
     
  6. BigRob

    BigRob Well-Known Member

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    Borrow it, get a scholarship. Why should anyone expect to go for free? It is worth it in the end.

    That is better than sitting around moping about being unemployed. I am not old enough to remember this, I will take your word for it.

    The difference is that odds are not many of these scientists are still pushing the hotdog carts, whereas those who are losing their jobs in the automotive industry (for example) would be akin to demanding that government intervene to ensure they keep their hotdog cart.

    Any field is better than unemployed. I did a quick search on monster and came back with thousands of results in Michigan, there are jobs to be had.

    The problem is that everyone wants everything now. How about pushing a hotdog cart and saving your money. There are tons of jobs still to be had, go get one and save up to pay for your education. Take night classes. The problem is not that they cannot earn the money, it is that they would rather not have to.
     
  7. GenSeneca

    GenSeneca Well-Known Member

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    Kinda like the responses I get, huh? :)

    How about this:

    What does the conservatives expect people to do in a place like Michigan where the people have run out of unemployment and there are no jobs to be had?

    #1. Stop electing Democrats who chase the jobs away with Government regulation and taxation on the businesses that provide jobs.

    #2. Collect your Unemployment till you get a job.

    #3. Live happily ever after.

    I have no problem with providing TEMPORARY assistance but it should only be a last resort. People should have Family and Friends to go to for help in hard times FIRST... Churches, Charities and other NON Governmental entities exist to provide such assistance were family and friends are not available.

    Thats a solution based on the Social Network, not the Socialist Network.
     
  8. Libsmasher

    Libsmasher New Member

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    Once again, there is no recession in this country, according to the economists' defininiton (as opposed to the moveon.org definition). I come from a place like Michigan, Ohio, just over the border from michigan, which is almost as devastated by the loss of manufacturing jobs.

    What did I do? This is real complicated but try to follow it:

    I moved away to another state! Genius? I'll say!! :D
     
  9. dahermit

    dahermit New Member

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    Lets see; No recession, but Ohio, Michigan, Indiana "...devestated by the loss of manufacturing jobs..." Hmmmm.

    Moved without a job, or moved after being hired in another location?

    If the first, must have a place to live with a phone to get a job (first and last months rent, plus security deposit. A difficult thing to do after resources have been depleted looking for another job in the home state first. This is only a viable scenario for a relatively young single man, not the thousands of family men in the affected states.

    If the second, not very likely if the "new job" is some distance away; employers usually do not hire someone without an interview. sometimes two or more interviews. If a prospective job is more than a few hours away by car, this is not a scenario that would be usable by the thousands of unemployed.
     
  10. dahermit

    dahermit New Member

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  11. dahermit

    dahermit New Member

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    Banks bend over back wards to lend money to someone that has lost their job.
    But I suppose a person could just pick one of those scholarships out of the air.
    FYI: Scholarships are almost always written to be specific. For instance, A female black woman over the age of 30 that is going to major in nursing, $300.00. This does not help the displaced white male 30 year old with a wife and two kids.

    Do another quick check. How many of the jobs listed did your level of education and or previous work experience were you qualified for? I have a Master's degree in Training in Business and Industry. How many of those jobs would I have qualified for?

    Save money that they earn from selling hot dogs? Only if they are single, sleeping on a park bench! Do you really think that those jobs have any disposable income?

    You strike me as very young, inexperienced and naive. Would you mind revealing your age, education, and occupation.
     
  12. BigRob

    BigRob Well-Known Member

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    Many schools are more than willing to set up payment plans, or give financial aid to anyone who needs it. It might not be Harvard, but it is still school.

    I qualified for quite a number of them. A master's degree qualifies you for a number of them as well.

    I recently read in the local paper where my parents live that a homeless kid graduated high school, and got a scholarship to college. If he can do, I feel pretty confident that anyone can do it.

    I am 24, I have a BA in International Relations and a masters in Defense and Strategic Studies. My job is not relevant.

    I will admit that myself and my family are very well off, but everyday there are countless examples of people putting themselves through college, if you are really broke, there are federal loans that can allow you to attend college as well.
     
  13. Federal Farmer

    Federal Farmer New Member

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    As far as I'm concerned, it serves all of those Union POGUES right for jacking the REAL job creaters around for all those decades. They got tired of paying some drooling moron $35 an hour to put lug nuts on, on an assembly line, and finally said SCREW THIS, we're going to buy a robot who does the job better, faster, with no attitude, and who will actually show up SOBER once in a while!

    What are they supposed to do? SUCK IT UP AND DEAL WITH IT!! They made their bed, now they can LAY IN IT!
     
  14. Mr.Dysfunctional

    Mr.Dysfunctional New Member

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    Would like to raise my hand as one of those.. I am 27 year old with soon to be a wife and a child.. I have to work 40 hours a week plus school.. now i paid for it myself because i saved the " Stimulas check" (( omg what a concept ehh? )) but if I had been married .. with her income and mine i would have easily fit the bill for a Pell grant. BTW pel grant is unlimited.. and is further enhanced on oppurtunity when you talk about having one or two children.

    Also .. too ate a bit of ressicion as I left my company as they turned to contactors they didn;t have to pay healthcare too. I sat on unemployment for a month or two and found ajob pretty fast.. however I live in Texas.. but to say that no jobs exsist .. however minimal.. is idiotic..

    BTW most companies pay for you to move from state to state if you are a mid-level manager or higher.. I have seen it time and again..

    If most of the affected is drop-outs whos only ambition was knocking up their high-school sweet heart and becoming a factory worker... That answer is simple.. shoulda kept your dick in your pants and your head towards the sky from the out-set .. o just subsidizied everyone become the market has taken a shift.. when they should have been preparing from the out-set (( or is it impossible to do 2 jobs now a days to achieve your fiancial goals? ))

    Again.. a lack of planning on your part does not consitute an emergency on mine.


    Also.. I don't need to be super-rich to live happily ever after.. just the security that comes with having the bills paid and enough left over to save or blow on a plasma screen t.v. after a couple of months..

    Simple needs does not equate simpilton.
     
  15. Libsmasher

    Libsmasher New Member

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    Focus now: :rolleyes: The definition of a recession is two successive quarters of negative growth. The US has had positive growth for the first two quarters of 2008, and it is accelerating. Employment is a lagging indicator as always. The conditions in most areas are not as bad as the midwest. Economists define recession as the average for the country, not by a few hard hit places.

    The latter.

    Instead of pointlessly personalizing the issue, let's focus on something more susbstantive. the problem of the manufacturing workers in the midwest is a secular, ie not periodic, decline in employment due to such jobs moving to other places in the world. There is NOTHING that can stop that. The government and unions in those states should focus on retraining those workers.

    At what point do you think a person should be responsible for himself? Is he supposed to think that because times have been good, they'll aways be good? Is he supposed to be blind to world forces that change the economy? Is he supposed to believe that he can support a family on a minimum wage job? Why did he have a family if that's all he has? Is he supposed to work to improve himself, or just cruise and let the democrat party sort things out when things predictably go bad?
     
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