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Final Gaza toll: 960 civilians dead

Discussion in 'Middle Eastern Politics' started by Popeye, Mar 14, 2009.

  1. Popeye

    Popeye Active Member

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    I know all the arguments attempting to justify such carnage, and I find it hard to agree with any part of any of them. The killing of civilians on this level is wrong...just plain wrong.

    It's just too bad our government, condones and pays for what I look upon as negligence on the part of the Israelis at the very least and outright murder at the worst....I suspect it lies somewhere in between.




    http://uk.reuters.com/article/homepageCrisis/idUKLC458176._CH_.2420
     
  2. SW85

    SW85 New Member

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    Perhaps next time the Palestinians want to start a war with Israel, they won't hide behind their wives and children. That'll go some way toward keeping casualties down.
     
  3. zakiyeh

    zakiyeh Member

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    Then they have to be armed as Israel was in the first place and let them have a fair fight.
    Along with the jewish immigration to Palestine, In 1948 the General assembly offered less than half of the land to palestinians (about 45%). This offer was rejected by the palestinians and then there was this war which led to another 20 % more land lost than what was offered to them. As you might know a land which is gained by war does not bring legality in the present definitions of the political sciences.
    What is important here is that the general Assembly's resolutions are not obligatory. So the palestinians had the right to refuse. Another matter is that the general assembly doesn't have rights to determine borders of other governments.


    What happenned then was an unfair war with the israeli side backed with modern weopons of the time. Those people who had a hand in this arming are being pardoned today by USA.
    Today even more land is occupied illegaly. For example the the west bank's settlements has been several times claimed to be illegall. but there is no stop to these illegal occupations of land.
    Now if you still think the palestinians shouldn't have refused the General assembly's offer, there has been many other resolutions that are not carried out; Like the one about the palestinian refugees that should be allowed to go back to their homes.
    "Land" is what hamas is fighting for.It's something which they have a "right" in.They fight as a representative of the people who have been forced away from their homes and are in lack of the basic human needs. They are empty handed, compared to Isreael's nuclear and phosphoric weapons.They are left to fight with all they have, and that is bringing their family to play and awakening the worlds's conscience by letting Isreal present his real face.

    Now if you want Hamas to fight face to face, why don't you arm them or at least believe it ok if anybody else did?
     
  4. BigRob

    BigRob Well-Known Member

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    What? Fair fight... are you kidding?

    Here is a list of all the Security Council resolutions about Israel since 1948.

    Who cares if war is "fair"?

    Israel should declare that the next attack from Hamas will result in the elimination of all "Palestinian" areas.

    People already are arming Hamas. Problem for Hamas is many of the Arab states do not care if they ever get their own state or not. Why on Earth would the US arm them as well?
     
  5. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    .......that's what Iran is doing, training those peace loving people of Palestine so they can fight and liberate themselves from the nasty blood thirsty Jews..................


    Great for Iran as they just feed the hate that they want to spread around the Arab world.
     
  6. Agnapostate

    Agnapostate New Member

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    I'm curious: Since the firing of rockets that harm essentially no one into remote parts of the desert apparently mandates a brutal invasion and since kidnappings on the northern border apparently mandates a clearly excessive invasion...why doesn't the IDF's kidnappings of Palestinian civilians from Gaza morally justify a similar assault on them from Hamas? It would seem to follow their own logic.
     
  7. dahermit

    dahermit New Member

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    I have not heard about this. Were the rockets purposely aimed into the remote (uninhabited?) or the desert, or were them meant to kill Israelis and missed?
     
  8. Bunz

    Bunz New Member

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    Shame that the Palestinian leadership cant keep thier security forces in check enough to not provoke the Israeli response, which will come every time, and it will be overwhelming every time.

    Maybe it is just me, but my advice to the leaders of Hamas, would be to not bring a proverbial rock to a gun fight. And if a rock is all you got, better start trying a little more diplomacy, because until the Palestinian militants stop targeting Israeli civilians, they are going to lose every time.
     
  9. SW85

    SW85 New Member

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    *pfffth*

    You're seriously going to criticize the right of conquest? Have you ever seriously questioned why ARABIC is spoken outside the ARABian peninsula? It's because of conquest. This applies to the Palestinians as well.1

    Because there is no "law" governing this in any meaningful sense of the word.

    Land belongs to whoever is able to exercise sovereignty over it. The Palestinians cannot even establish a coherent government over the scrap of land they DO have, why in the world should they have any more, hmm???

    See the above. Land belongs to whoever has the guns to defend it.

    Then it isn't a tragedy that they're dead, is it? Hmm? They started a war they couldn't win and lost. People die in war. QED.

    FYI, their basic needs aren't being met because the thugs they put in power are more interested in diverting their limited national resources to making weapons to fight wars they can't win.

    So you are honest about the fact that the Palestinians are too backward and morally bankrupt to fight face to face and instead use human shields? For the explicit purpose of getting useful idiots like Popeye to weep crocodile tears and demand divestment from Israel?

    God in heaven, your people are pathetic.
     
  10. BigRob

    BigRob Well-Known Member

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    This is garbage. As pointed out above, they were fired with the intent of killing people and causing terror. Causing terror is more what you will get out of that than deaths, but it still is an act of war that gives the victim of such attacks the right to retaliate.
     
  11. Popeye

    Popeye Active Member

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    I may have posted this picture before but even if I have, it's good to see it a second time for emphasis. These are the so called dangerous Hamas rockets that Israel felt it was necessary to slaughter almost 1000 civilians over..

    [​IMG]

    BTW, polls have shown that Hamas has actually gained in strength since the Israeli attack...like any people under duress, the Palestinians have pulled together and backed their leaders.. This was not the outcome the Israelis intended.
     
  12. pocketfullofshells

    pocketfullofshells Well-Known Member

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    maybe they could stop targeting them then...
     
  13. BigRob

    BigRob Well-Known Member

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    Is Israel supposed to view being attacked by rocket fire as something less than an act of war?
     
  14. BigRob

    BigRob Well-Known Member

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    Legally speaking, when Hamas hides behind civilians, Israel is legally able to continue targeting them and if the civilian dies in the process, it is not illegal.
     
  15. Agnapostate

    Agnapostate New Member

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    So this is the "sly" way of admitting that essentially no deaths were caused by the rockets, as opposed to the numerous deaths caused by the invasion?
     
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