Frankly Speaking - Congressman Barney Blasts Back

[Pandora]

And a good point it is.

I have no problem with opposing the president. It is, in fact, our duty as free Americans to protest when we think the government is wrong.

Comparing the pres to Hitler, however, regardless of who he is or what party he represents, says a lot more about the protester than it does about the president.

And, none of what it says is good.

Agreed! and when anyone who opposed the way President Bush was treated complains about how obama is treated, I will listen and agree with them fully.

I just dont want to hear it from those who bashed former President Bush and now thinks we all have to get on board and get along.

 

[top gun]

No that was not the point I was trying to make.

So you're then saying that it's not OK to do this to President Obama. GREAT! We agree.

My point is more like this...


If you never had a problem with people yelling at President Bush, Making Hitler pictures of him, Yelling at right wing congressmen, questioning those who President Bush kept as close friends then you should not have a problem when others do this to obama.

I dont think the people during the anti war protests were very polite or respectful but they did have the right to do what they did. I did not complain when they did Hitler/Bush signs exc, or yell at the congressmen. I did not agree with them but accepted they had a right to do what they were doing.

I think its kind of crappy that people who had no problem with the way President Bush was treated as a president or the way people protested but now all the sudden its a bad thing because now you happen to like the guy in office.

That was the point I wanted to make.

But I've said in the past that I did have a problem with it. I don't think any American President is even in one's wildest dream Hitler like.

And protesting war where people are being KILLED by the 10's of thousands is a little different than busing in radicals to purposely disrupt Town Hall Meetings so the little old lady down the street or the single mom can't ask their question or hear what's really in the purpose legislation on Healtgh Insurance Reform.

You must see that...

 

[Pandora]

So you're then saying that it's not OK to do this to President Obama. GREAT! We agree.




But I've said in the past that I did have a problem with it. I don't think any American President is even in one's wildest dream Hitler like.

And protesting war where people are being KILLED by the 10's of thousands is a little different than busing in radicals to purposely disrupt Town Hall Meetings so the little old lady down the street or the single mom can't ask their question or hear what's really in the purpose legislation on Healtgh Insurance Reform.

You must see that...

The people at the town hall meetings have as much right to be heard as any obama plant does, and they have just as much right to protest a very bad health care bill as those who did not like the war had in protesting that.

So is it just the hitler obama thing that bothers you or is there other things people are saying about obama that bothers you ?

 

[pocketfullofshells]

The people at the town hall meetings have as much right to be heard as any obama plant does, and they have just as much right to protest a very bad health care bill as those who did not like the war had in protesting that.

So is it just the hitler obama thing that bothers you or is there other things people are saying about obama that bothers you ?

do they have the right to make sure no one else can talk, to make sure there is no debate? and since when did Your a Nazi and Your Hitler get called Debate? Even people who are against this plan, or have questions about it, cant actuly do anything with some these places. They want angry ranting mob rule , not debate and Democracy....

And that Bull Fing **** about yelling the pledge at people? The Right and they anyone on the left who does not agree with them is Anti American is sicking. The Idea that somehow wanting to fix our broken health care system and make sure all people can get treatment if needed ...is Unamerican? If its Unamerican to think that poor people should have health care ...then fine I hate America then. It can Burn. But then again its not our side yelling about having there state leave the US.

Mindless retards with no real info only there talking points and Chain Emails of lies and drivel......out to prevent even the real debate of one of the most important issues effecting peoples lives.

 

[Pandora]

do they have the right to make sure no one else can talk, to make sure there is no debate? and since when did Your a Nazi and Your Hitler get called Debate? Even people who are against this plan, or have questions about it, cant actuly do anything with some these places. They want angry ranting mob rule , not debate and Democracy....

And that Bull Fing **** about yelling the pledge at people? The Right and they anyone on the left who does not agree with them is Anti American is sicking. The Idea that somehow wanting to fix our broken health care system and make sure all people can get treatment if needed ...is Unamerican? If its Unamerican to think that poor people should have health care ...then fine I hate America then. It can Burn. But then again its not our side yelling about having there state leave the US.

Mindless retards with no real info only there talking points and Chain Emails of lies and drivel......out to prevent even the real debate of one of the most important issues effecting peoples lives.

No I think it is stupid to bring hitler pictures to a town hall, but I said that when the left was doing it too... so at least I am not inconsistant.

I have not seen any video clips of people not letting people speak, at least not for town halls. I have seen many videos of the left shouting out so McCain had to end his rally, and Tom Tancrado (spelling) had to end his speech exc. many many things like that, but so far I have not seen where the right was shouting down the left so the left could not say how great obamacare would be. I have seen them yelling at the congressmen who are pompus asses.

What do you mean, yelling the plege at people? Must be a video I missed?

You are not the unamerican dear pocket, I am. My own president and his gang of retards have made it clear. I am unpatriotic, unamerican and basicly a terrorist

Im really proud of that too!

 

[top gun]

The people at the town hall meetings have as much right to be heard as any obama plant does, and they have just as much right to protest a very bad health care bill as those who did not like the war had in protesting that.

Is it your opinion that the bused in Right Wing Radicals have the right to intentionally disrupt inside the meetings to prevent others from asking questions they may have or hearing the explanation of the plan they came to hear? They've even broke into some fights.

Outside the meetings they can dance around in bunny costumes for all I care. But inside the meeting it should be question... answer... question... answer...

So is it just the hitler obama thing that bothers you or is there other things people are saying about obama that bothers you ?

The thing that bothers me is the safety of our President and our other elected officials from bused in poor losers & assorted nuts.

 

[Pandora]

Is it your opinion that the bused in Right Wing Radicals have the right to intentionally disrupt inside the meetings to prevent others from asking questions they may have or hearing the explanation of the plan they came to hear? They've even broke into some fights.

Outside the meetings they can dance around in bunny costumes for all I care. But inside the meeting it should be question... answer... question... answer...



The thing that bothers me is the safety of our President and our other elected officials from bused in poor losers & assorted nuts.

No I do not think bussed in people should be screaming and not letting other people be heard though I think if the congressman is lying its ok to shout out at him for lying.

You should not be so up tight about the bussed in people, they learned how to do that from the democrats and acorn.

I agree it should be questions and answer exc. Too bad the left never felt that way when they were the ones protesting.

The only fight I know of is when the union thug beat up the black man giving away dont tread on me flags and the man ended up in the emergency room. Do you have other stories I have not heard of?

Its noble of you to worry for the safety of the president. I hope you do not get any gray hair over it. He is the most protected person on the planet. Kennedy is the last dem to be shot at or attempted to be shot at, the rest were republicans. I would not worry much if I were you.

 

[PLC1]

Given the fear mongering and misinformation that has passed for debate and discussion on this bill, it is not surprising that there are angry people shouting at the "town hall" meetings about health care reform. The nonsense about death panels, about euthanasia, about rationing, and using tax dollars to pay for illegal aliens is not being debated in the halls of Congress, yet there seem to be a lot of people who think that's what the pro health care reform voices are advocating.

Further, the argument that the "left" shouted about the war, so that gives the "right" the power to shout down health care debate is simply not a good argument. For one thing, two wrongs don't make a right. For another, the war protesters weren't drowning out debate about how best to proceed in the war, or about whether or not we should go to war. There actually wasn't any public debate about those things anyway.

And, yes, both the war protesters and the health care reform opposers have a right to be heard, whether or not they agree with your or my point of view. What neither has a right to do is shout down someone else's voice. That is taking away the freedom of speech from the opposing side.

As for Top Gun's video, it is pretty well edited and spun. Here is another that is much more credible. Is this protest, or is it simply putting a stop to debate? What do you think?

 

[Pandora]

Given the fear mongering and misinformation that has passed for debate and discussion on this bill, it is not surprising that there are angry people shouting at the "town hall" meetings about health care reform. The nonsense about death panels, about euthanasia, about rationing, and using tax dollars to pay for illegal aliens is not being debated in the halls of Congress, yet there seem to be a lot of people who think that's what the pro health care reform voices are advocating.

Further, the argument that the "left" shouted about the war, so that gives the "right" the power to shout down health care debate is simply not a good argument. For one thing, two wrongs don't make a right. For another, the war protesters weren't drowning out debate about how best to proceed in the war, or about whether or not we should go to war. There actually wasn't any public debate about those things anyway.

And, yes, both the war protesters and the health care reform opposers have a right to be heard, whether or not they agree with your or my point of view. What neither has a right to do is shout down someone else's voice. That is taking away the freedom of speech from the opposing side.

As for Top Gun's video, it is pretty well edited and spun. Here is another that is much more credible. Is this protest, or is it simply putting a stop to debate? What do you think?

I was not arguing that since the left did it the right can do it too. I was arguing that I am not going to bother listening to anyone who advocated for it when it was the left doing it but now are having a tantrum because the right is doing it. Both were/are wrong, I think I have said that at least three times. I dont mind at all having a discussion about what the protesters are doing right now with someone who agrees it was very wrong the way the left acted for the last 8 years.

Do you really think that this new health care bill will not cover illegals? Really?
Considering the federal and state governmetns are already covering them I am kind of shocked that you would really think it is not going to. Though I personally dont care... the bill is exensive enough to kill the country just covering citizens, what are a few more going to hurt.

And rationing,. You really think we can add this much more people to the system without importing more doctors and nurses and building more hospitals and the level of health care will be the same. I would not have expected that kind of reasoning from you.

 

[PLC1]

I was not arguing that since the left did it the right can do it too. I was arguing that I am not going to bother listening to anyone who advocated for it when it was the left doing it but now are having a tantrum because the right is doing it. Both were/are wrong, I think I have said that at least three times. I dont mind at all having a discussion about what the protesters are doing right now with someone who agrees it was very wrong the way the left acted for the last 8 years.

Do you really think that this new health care bill will not cover illegals? Really?
Considering the federal and state governmetns are already covering them I am kind of shocked that you would really think it is not going to. Though I personally dont care... the bill is exensive enough to kill the country just covering citizens, what are a few more going to hurt.

And rationing,. You really think we can add this much more people to the system without importing more doctors and nurses and building more hospitals and the level of health care will be the same. I would not have expected that kind of reasoning from you.

Illegals: Yes, we are paying for them now, and doing it in the least cost effective way possible, through the emergency rooms. What we need to do is send them home, but, of course, we don't want to do that for a variety of reasons. There is nothing in HR3200 about illegal aliens. Perhaps the Senate bill will mention the issue, but we don't know as it has yet to be written.

Rationing: Yes, there will continue to be rationing. There is rationing now. No one can afford unlimited health care.

What we need to do is make better use of the resources we have now through preventative medicine and using different levels of care (not depending so much on emergency services) and add more hospitals and doctors if we really need them.

As for the "left" protesting the war, how and when were they drowning out debate about the war? There is nothing wrong with protesting. What is wrong is shouting nonsense and not allowing others to hear the facts. What is wrong is creating strawman arguments and keeping them going so that there can be no time to discuss the real issues.

I discredit and dismiss the notion that we have two teams divided into "left" and "right" anyway. What is the connection between supporting invading a foreign nation and supporting reforming the health care system? There simply is no connection between those two issues.

 

[Pandora]

Illegals: Yes, we are paying for them now, and doing it in the least cost effective way possible, through the emergency rooms. What we need to do is send them home, but, of course, we don't want to do that for a variety of reasons. There is nothing in HR3200 about illegal aliens. Perhaps the Senate bill will mention the issue, but we don't know as it has yet to be written.

Rationing: Yes, there will continue to be rationing. There is rationing now. No one can afford unlimited health care.

What we need to do is make better use of the resources we have now through preventative medicine and using different levels of care (not depending so much on emergency services) and add more hospitals and doctors if we really need them.

As for the "left" protesting the war, how and when were they drowning out debate about the war? There is nothing wrong with protesting. What is wrong is shouting nonsense and not allowing others to hear the facts. What is wrong is creating strawman arguments and keeping them going so that there can be no time to discuss the real issues.

I discredit and dismiss the notion that we have two teams divided into "left" and "right" anyway. What is the connection between supporting invading a foreign nation and supporting reforming the health care system? There simply is no connection between those two issues.

I do not mean just in war protests, During a few McCain events they screamed so loud that he had to just end the rally because they were not going to let him speak. Tom Tancredo had to end his event on illegal imigration because they not only screamed they put banners in front of the cameras.

Once in Portand Oregon and once in Calif I read about a person being drug out of their car and beat up by the anti war protesters during some march. In your face tactics, stopping traffic, forcing people to hear them and attacking them verbally or otherwise is wrong IMO. I would not defend that if it were coming from the right either.

I am not sure I agree with the rationing you are talking about. In other countries if they deem you do not need what ever it is you think you need then you dont get it, here you can pay out of pocket for what ever it is you think you want or need. Some people have insurance that covers just a few things, the basics, some have insurance that doesnt cover the small stuff but kicks in if you have a major issue. Some people have insurance like me where they pay 80% and I pay 20%. I am sure I have some kind of cap since insurance companies are not bottomless pits but if I reach my cap I can pay out of pocket if I think I want to waste my money on it.

I really dont care about the health care. I almost never go to the doctor, I dont like them and I self doctor when I think I need something. I care about people who do not want government health care having the right to be able to speak up about it with out being deemed terrorists and evil.

 

[BigRob]

And that Bull Fing **** about yelling the pledge at people? The Right and they anyone on the left who does not agree with them is Anti American is sicking. The Idea that somehow wanting to fix our broken health care system and make sure all people can get treatment if needed ...is Unamerican? If its Unamerican to think that poor people should have health care ...then fine I hate America then. It can Burn. But then again its not our side yelling about having there state leave the US.

What a load of BS. Most people on the right are all for healthcare reform and making it easy to access for everyone. It is the kind of reform that is the question, not simply reform in general.

Certainly there will be some exceptions, but the vast majority of those on the Right are open to health care reform. There are Republican proposed bills in the House and Senate on the very issue.

 

[top gun]

No I do not think bussed in people should be screaming and not letting other people be heard though I think if the congressman is lying its ok to shout out at him for lying.

Look I've been to one of these Town Hall Meetings... spoke at it in fact. There's no lying. There's differences of opinion as to whether the government should take this on or not but that's not lying.

There's absolutely no reason why someone can't just get up and ask a question negative of Health Insurance Reform and then listen to the answer. They are then free to still not want the Reform if that's what they choose. They can leave the meeting, do an interview on how much it sucks, run up and down the street like idiots waving Nazi posters of our President... whatever floats their boat.

But screaming and pushing and fighting and filibustering just to hopefully get a clip on the evening news is childish and prevents the grown ups in the room from having a rational exchange of information.

Which is why they're having Town Hall Meetings in the first place.

You should not be so up tight about the bussed in people, they learned how to do that from the democrats and acorn.

It's the busing in just to disrupt a meeting that's the problem.

I agree it should be questions and answer exc. Too bad the left never felt that way when they were the ones protesting.

You're going back to... he did, he did, he did it too... COME ON...

The only fight I know of is when the union thug beat up the black man giving away dont tread on me flags and the man ended up in the emergency room. Do you have other stories I have not heard of?

The Right Wingnuts are out there Pandora. The Union people weren't even at the Town Halls in a security capacity until the crazies disrupted several of these informational meetings.

Its noble of you to worry for the safety of the president. I hope you do not get any gray hair over it. He is the most protected person on the planet. Kennedy is the last dem to be shot at or attempted to be shot at, the rest were republicans. I would not worry much if I were you.

I believe that's the same type Bull Crap you guys also spread right before Dr. Tiller was assassinated. And you don't really know much about American history do you?

Griselio Torresola, attempted to assassinate President Truman... Giuseppe Zangara attempted to assasinate FDR. I'm pretty sure those were both Democratic Presidents but I'll check.

And other Progressive leaders are often a target of nutjobs on the Lunatic Right... Bobby Kennedy... MLK... the list goes on.

So I'll do my own worrying if you don't mind. This is a damn good man. Not only the leader of the free world but a loyal husband and a loving father.

Our President of the United States President Barack Obama!

 

[top gun]

What a load of BS. Most people on the right are all for healthcare reform and making it easy to access for everyone. It is the kind of reform that is the question, not simply reform in general.

Certainly there will be some exceptions, but the vast majority of those on the Right are open to health care reform. There are Republican proposed bills in the House and Senate on the very issue.

Now Rob then tell me this.

Did Republicans have control under Reagan and under Bush? Since this is such a pressing issue to them in all those years in control how much major healthcare reform did they go to the mat for?

And when Clinton put forward his healthcare reform plan and the Republicans scuttled that what alternative plan did the Republicans in control of both the House and the Senate push through?

The fact is they didn't do jack. That's just the truth.

Isn't it a little disingenuous to say now that the Democrats almost certainly will pass Health Insurance Reform that the Republicans have all these great reform plans but it's just that nobody will take them into consideration?

 

[Pandora]

Look I've been to one of these Town Hall Meetings... spoke at it in fact. There's no lying. There's differences of opinion as to whether the government should take this on or not but that's not lying.

There's absolutely no reason why someone can't just get up and ask a question negative of Health Insurance Reform and then listen to the answer. They are then free to still not want the Reform if that's what they choose. They can leave the meeting, do an interview on how much it sucks, run up and down the street like idiots waving Nazi posters of our President... whatever floats their boat.

But screaming and pushing and fighting and filibustering just to hopefully get a clip on the evening news is childish and prevents the grown ups in the room from having a rational exchange of information.

Which is why they're having Town Hall Meetings in the first place.



It's the busing in just to disrupt a meeting that's the problem.



You're going back to... he did, he did, he did it too... COME ON...



The Right Wingnuts are out there Pandora. The Union people weren't even at the Town Halls in a security capacity until the crazies disrupted several of these informational meetings.

I believe that's the same type Bull Crap you guys also spread right before Dr. Tiller was assassinated. And you don't really know much about American history do you?

Griselio Torresola, attempted to assassinate President Truman... Giuseppe Zangara attempted to assasinate FDR. I'm pretty sure those were both Democratic Presidents but I'll check.

And other Progressive leaders are often a target of nutjobs on the Lunatic Right... Bobby Kennedy... MLK... the list goes on.

So I'll do my own worrying if you don't mind. This is a damn good man. Not only the leader of the free world but a loyal husband and a loving father.

Our President of the United States President Barack Obama!

I only went as far as Kennedy because I think I was almost born by the time he died, anyone else was way before you or me. I didnt know that anyone tried to hurt FDR or Truman, thanks for the info

Its interesting how two people can see the same events so differently.

I did not mean it how you took it when you said You're going back to... he did, he did, he did it too

I meant it in a way to say this, I do not feel that dems/libs in general really feel bad at all for how they treated our former President or his administration and I dont think they are genuine when they say they want to get along or really discuss, I think they just want these bills past and will say what ever they need to say to get it done, if they can apply guilt to those out there who do not want this health care bill, next cap and trade exc.. then they will. and the next time some republican is in charge or dares to attempt to be in charge they will be attacked in the same way its been done in the past.


you said this but I can not figure out what you mean...

"I believe that's the same type Bull Crap you guys also spread right before Dr. Tiller was assassinated.


What did I say about tiler before he was killed other than he was a sick abortionist who should be stopped?